Hello, everyone. Help needed.

[elshiva]

At 26 years of age, I am becoming an Atheist. I stopped going to Church last December. This surprising because I majored in Religious Studies at the College of Notre Dame in Maryland. I graduated and went on to a seminary, but had to leave because of mental illness. To summarize a boring story I realized that my religious experiences were all emotional hoo-haa.

I've been an Episcopalian all my life and depressed at the hypocrisy and snobbery.

Please help me. Do you have any advice for someone who is new at this?

Thank you

[enlightenment]

1. First of all - sit down and take stock of how your life will

change for the better now.

Then take a deep breath and realise that as you begin to learn and grow you'll experience the same sort of aches and twinges that you felt as an adolescent experiencing your first growth spurt. Don't fear them - embrace them, just as you did those aches and twinges, because you're growing and that's a good thing!

Here are a few places to browse - I'm certain that the good folk in this group can point you to many, many more!

http://www.infidels.org/
http://www.atheists.org/
http://www.atheistresource.co.uk/


And elshiva? Congratulations. Welcome to the world!

[elshiva]

2. Thanks, enlightnement.

It's scary, but it's freeing.

[onager]

3. Welcome!

Most of us were new at this once. Just take your time and do a lot of reflecting on what you once believed versus where you are going. And we're always here to listen

If you were converting the other way, Xians would call this your "long dark night of the soul." I've always been a little annoyed that we non-believers don't have such poetic terminology for de-conversion. I personally like "long dark night of the brain," but I have to admit it sounds a little horror-movie-ish.

With your educational background, you're probably better equipped than many people for a de-conversion based on rationalism. One of the world's most prominent Bible scholars is an atheist--Philip R. Davies.

You might also find it useful to read some of the writings of Dan Barker, a former Fundamentalist preacher who became an atheist. Also Charles Templeton, a former evangelist who toured with the young Billy Graham before he studied religion and became an agnostic. Both are just a Google away, as usual.

Here are a few more links:

Testimonies of Ex-Christians: http://exchristian.net/testimonies/2002/09/leaving-christianity-behind.php

Leaving Chrstianity: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~slocks/decon.html

Freedom From Religion Foundation: http://www.ffrf.org/index.php

Whose Bible Is It Anyway? Ask an Atheist! by Philip R. Davies: http://www.americanatheist.org/smr97/T1/whosebible.html

[Lost-in-FL]

4. Another religious scholar turned atheist is...

Bart D. Ehrman now the chairman of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. In his new book introduction he talks about his "conversion". The book is "God's problem:How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question--Why We Suffer". I think you might identify with him a lot since his conversion occurred during his days studying theology in a very fundamentalist university. I want to get his book but would like reading the pile of books I have already waiting on me..

I'm still dealing with coming out of the darkness. I am now happier than before but my only obstacle is that my husband is still a xtian. We have talk about it and I know he is "ok" with it. We don't have kids yet and that is where i see the potential problem (his family is deeply religious and don't know how they would react, my family already knows and trust my judgment even when they are also deeply religious.)

You'll be ok! The links provided here are great and will help you in the process. I got lots of info from the "Freedom from Religion Foundation" site and The Closet Atheist link http://www.geocities.com/closetatheist/ .

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. Well, given your avatar, you can follow Douglas Adams' advice:

Don't Panic!

And you might be interested in his description of moving from being a Christian (Anglican, I think) when young, to agnostic, to 'radical atheism', as he termed it: http://www.americanatheist.org/win98-99/T2/silverman.html

It doesn't mean he was right about everything, of course, but I find that most things he said make sense.

Apart from that - there's over 6 billion fellow humans out there, and most of us are friendly to each other, especially when we get to know each other a little. There may be a few who aren't, but there's usually more who are willing to help get those bad ones out of your life.

Most people, whether atheist, agnostic, or believers, can find the ideas expressed in the 'Humanist Manifesto' (now in its third version) a good basis on how we ought to treat each other. We know there are humans, and sorting out how we live with each other seems a more important concern for us than any theoretical ideas about a creator that we can't see or experience. If you see believers as people who've got rather hung up on something unimportant theoretical idea, as we all can at some time, but who are still like you when they get back to the real world, they won't seem so different. Hopefully, they'll think the same way about you.

Follow up interesting ideas - with books, and the internet, we are quite lucky now to be able to get the thoughts of a huge number of people who've lived over the years. None of us are absolutely right about everything, and we all gradually change in what we think is important, or likely, and taking that development as part of life can be great.

[PassingFair]

6. I was raised to be an Episcopalian...

I identified as agnostic/atheist when I was 12.
(This AFTER confirmation class, where the MOST
WONDERFUL REVEREND on the planet gave me an over-
view of comparative religions.)

I'm sure you've heard of THIS guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Shelby_Spong

He helped to explain why my mother kept going
to church...he is also someone who would not
put up with hypocrisy and snobbery!

Almost all of my relatives in Britain were
raised C of E, and ALL of them are outspoken
atheists.

Sorry you had to be disillusioned at 26, after
SO much WORK...

[Warpy]

7. Sure. This too shall pass.

Most of us went through a period of anger when we figured out we'd been bamboozled so long. The longer the bamboozling, the stronger the anger.

I find a lot of people have gotten stuck in the "afraid NOT to believe" rut, one I was in before I stomped off in disgust and managed to persuade my parents to take me out of Catholic school and allow me to confront reality, thanks very much. I was 10.

Letting go of living your life in fear of judgment and hell is easy. Letting go of the possibility of a protective imaginary friend in the sky is much more difficult. It's a process and will probably take years. Recognize that grieving is also a part of the process, especially since you're also giving up a vocation.

Just be kind to yourself and to people who are still stuck in the myths.

At some point, you might miss the wonderful sense of community a congregation can give. I suggest the Unitarians, freethinkers who welcome even us atheists and Quakers, freethinkers who tolerate anyone who joins them in nonviolence.

Whichever way you cope is the right way, with a congregation of other freethinkers or going solo. Just know you've got a lot of company out here.

[JNelson6563]

8. You came to the right place friend

I see you have gotten lots of good advice from the wise and witty souls of DU's AA forum. I'd recommend you come here anytime you need info, encouragement and/or solidarity.

Cheers,
Julie

[YankeyMCC]

9. Welcome - and three things I'll say

that I hope help.

First, find a way to express you atheism in a positive way, it's understandable that negative things in your church or in the theology, would set you on a path but find a way to articulate why not holding to the idea that mythical gods are real improves your life will allow you to better identify how to re-examine and hold onto a good ethical code. It will also help you talk to other people in your life in a positive way and perhaps help them a little in understanding. Which is also another point I want to make, it may be hard depending on the people in your life, but try not to let this come between you and the people you love, don't hide your new feelings, but be as patient and understanding as you can.

Second, recognizing or realizing that gods are myths isn't enough to build a code of ethics on so don't through the baby out with the bathwater so to speak. You might need to re-examine your ethical guidelines but make sure you keep the ones that are still valid and good without having to rely on the existence of gods. And still cherish and value the things that you cherish and value, just realize it is you that gives those things value not gods, these are the things that will help you - or at least have a way to aim at - be happy.

And finally, find like minded people you can commiserate with and get support from - and this is certainly one place so welcome again, but find people you can interact with face to face too.

[and-justice-for-all]

10. Congrats and welcome to mental freedom...

It is good to hear you have decided that religion is bunk and absurd nonsense.

I can not be empathic because I was never in an overly/fundamentalist religious environment, lucky for me my mother never was a church goer or mentioned anything regarding it. I pretty much was left to my own devices and if I was a believer it would have been fine and if not, than so be it.

I would assume that coming out of the religious world and into reality is kind of like a junkie trying to get off the junk. It will you play this tug-of-war mental game with yourself, from believing to not believing for sometime, but there are things that can help you over come the idea that you have to invisible friend and believe in dark age dogma.

http://www.richarddawkins.net/
http://www.secular.org/index.html
http://www.infidels.org/library/

And some necessary reading:
god is not great - Hitchens
the portable Atheist - Hitchens
The God Delusion - Dawkins
Why I am not a christian - Bertrand Russell
Letter to a christian nation - Harris


There are many more great books that are must reads, specially Daniel C. Dennett.

One of the easiest ways to ease this transition is to understand this: If one is presenting an argument, they also need sound evidence to support their claims, something religion can not nor ever provide in defense for the invisible man in the sky or christ for that matter. It is not you responsibility to attempt to discredit the existence of religious myths, it is their job to provide the evidence for you to be able to discredit and they have ZERO evidence working in their favor. Faith is the exact opposite of FACTS. They have 'faith' because they have NO FACTS.

[beam me up scottie]

11. Didn't you make the same announcement 2 years ago only to use our words of welcome against us

when you later admitted you never stopped believing in god?

You posted a starter thread in the lounge that time too, followed by this one in the R/T forum:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=214&topic_id=26318


Why should I believe you this time, elshiva?

[cosmik debris]

12. Ouch!

That's gotta hurt.

The archives don't forget.

[beam me up scottie]

16. I remembered this particular incident because it was so ugly.

Trust me, I wish I hadn't been reminded of it.

[skepticscott]

13. People just don't learn, do they?

This is the freaking information age! There's a record of pretty much everything you write, say or do publicly. Makes it a heck of a lot harder to lie and BS without getting caught, but politicians, fundies pundits and other blowhards just can't seem to get their brains around that fact.

[beam me up scottie]

17. DU's archives are a treasure trove.

Some of the old threads are hilarious, like the now infamous "Call Congress. RIGHT FUCKING NOW." GD free-for-all.

[trotsky]

14. You are my hero, bmus.

But you already knew that. :)

[beam me up scottie]

18. And you are mine.

:hug:

[Warpy]

15. Kudos for a long memory

but doubting the divine is a process. Maybe it's taking this person a record long time.

In any case, I'm perfectly happy to give it another nudge on the road to free thought.

[beam me up scottie]

19. If elshiva really is an atheist, I'll be more than happy to join in the backslapping.

But you can hardly blame me for being skeptical since she never explained what happened last time.

The whole sorry spectacle had a "Look at those stupid atheists, they actually believed I was one of them" feel to it.

[Warpy]

20. I don't remember any of the exchange

because I avoid R&T most of the time.

Anyone who feels compelled to play the game you're suggesting is in the "afraid NOT to believe" camp already, something that provokes the ultimate in hypocrisy as the closet doubter seeks to convince everyone else of his piety since the one person he can't convince is himself. He is desperate for that external confirmation of his unshakable belief since it just aint happening internally.

Remember, I was raised Irish Catholic. I've got their number.

[beam me up scottie]

21. You are very wise to avoid R/T Warpy.

Although right now GDP makes the skirmishes in that forum look like something out of a Disney movie...

I hope I am wrong about elshiva's sincerity.

[Rhiannon12866]

22. Yikes, my friend! But welcome here!

I'd been wondering how you were doing. I'm surprised to learn of your change of heart, but I understand, as well.:-)

You don't really need advice at this, my friend, since only you know what you feel and believe. I also had a hard time with this, when I was younger, since my father was very devout and a true believer and my mother still gives me a hard time because I don't attend church and now she takes my abusive brother. I think that this says it all. They obviously aren't getting the message, but I believe that I am.:D

Living a good life and kindness to others, acting like a Christian, rather than claiming to be one, is much more important to me. Don't worry, my friend. Follow your heart and you'll be fine.:hi:

Rhiannon :hug: