Harris and Dawkins were, of course, right.

[trotsky]

Religious moderates DO provide cover for fundamentalists.

When given a choice between confronting the fundie literalist, and confronting the atheist arguing with the fundie literalist IN THE SAME THREAD, who does the moderate decide to argue with?

:banghead:

[moggie]

1. Don't hold your breath for the moderates to confront the fundies

Religious moderates, at least US moderates, need the fundies. Europe shows what can happen when the fire and brimstone goes out of religion: it dwindles to a mildly eccentric hobby for a minority, ignored (or regarded with amusement) by the rest of the population. The moderates want religion to remain a major force in American life, and they know that, ultimately, the fundies provide the driving force for that.

Secondly, I suspect that a lot of moderates privately believe that fundies are better, or at least more knowledgeable, Christians than themselves. Many Christians' knowledge of the bible is surprisingly shallow; they feel able to argue with atheists about the bible, because they don't expect us to know it, but going up against someone who regards it as the literal word of God in its entirety risks exposing their poor grasp of the book they claim to love and respect.

[trotsky]

2. Great points.

Could also help explain why the best opposition they've been able to wrangle against the fundies politically (Wallis et al) are basically leftie fundies. Not a value on secularism, but rather just redirecting fundamentalist zeal to liberal issues. Well, SOME liberal issues at least.

[onager]

3. You can see Harris defending that idea...

...in the CBC documentary "The Atheists: Spreading The Word." I posted a thread about in here a couple of weeks ago.

Having watched that show again, mainly it really annoyed me. The host describes himself as a "fence-sitting agnostic." e.g., Sam Harris is interviewed in the Los Angeles beach town of Venice. As the camera pans the palm trees, sunshine and bikinis, that annoying host smirks: "Who SAYS there isn't a god?"

Well, for one...the guy you're interviewing, bonehead. Just personal, but I'm even annoyed by the host's colorful Rasta accent. It's like having the show narrated by Jar-Jar Binks.

Then there's the featured "moderate Xian," who seems to get more interview time than any of the atheists. Tom Harpur, a former Anglican clergyman, no less. Ugh. What a smug, self-satisfied little turd he is. He sits on the lawn of his big, beautiful home, petting his big, beautiful dog, and maunders about the hummingbirds in the hollyhocks proving the existence of god.

Harpur believes the Biblical Jesus was a myth, as he wrote in his book The Pagan Christ. But rather than encourage people to think critically--and probably put him out of a job--he discards the Jesus Myth so it can be replaced with other, even sillier myths.

As one reviewer noted: Harpur does not view this book as an attack upon Christianity or any other religion, for that matter. He goal is quite to opposite, actually. He wants to help people realize a richer, more spiritual faith as he has come to experience it.

:banghead: