The DNC winter conference

[ginnyinWI]

I have it on this morning on Cspan. Obama was speaking when I turned it on, and what he was saying sounded good, until he got to this: "we shouldn't have to hold our noses and vote for the lesser of two evils." Wha?? Is that something to say in front of a group of Democrats? Because that means Kerry doesn't it? That one statement totally turned me off! Many, many of us voted for JK very enthusiastically!! :grr: I thought Obama was the "positive" candidate. :(

[ginnyinWI]

1. John Edwards is up next. n/t

[Noisy Democrat]

2. Obama's also the one

who thinks everyone over the age of 45 is irrelevant and annoying -- I'm paraphrasing wildly, but that was the clear message of his snark about baby boomers. He's digging himself into a hole with his attitude.

[ginnyinWI]

3. that bothers me too

The boomers are a huge voting block, in case he hasn't noticed. And he's technically one himself, having been born before 1964.

[babylonsister]

4. No one's impressing me AT ALL. And ProSense had a thread up

about Obama that is discouraging to me:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3091120&mesg_id=3091120

[ginnyinWI]

5. Sigh! Nobody else is John Kerry. n/t

:cry:

[babylonsister]

6. Yes, I'm sure that's part of my problem; no one measures up to him. nt

[beachmom]

8. Actually, what it is saying is that Obama once opposed setting

a date (K/F amendment), and now does. Obama is basically saying Kerry was right. I'm a little unclear if he is backing away from the date -- I think he calls it a "goal", but it certainly has his position a LOT closer to K/F than ever before.

[babylonsister]

10. Coffee!

Thanks, beachmom, I totally read that wrong! :blush: Maybe there is hope for him!
I still don't like any of them much at this point.

[sandnsea]

13. How was Edwards

I turned it on when Kucinich was talking, and that was pretty early out here on the upper left coast. I got to see Hillary though, woohoo -- not.

[babylonsister]

15. I have a visceral dislilke for Edwards I can't explain.

I think it's because I don't trust what's coming out of his mouth. Seems to me, he'll say anything to please anyone to get elected. So I can't help you because I turned the channel after about a minute.

[karynnj]

17. Gee - I hit the remote to turn it off when he came on

Consider that he would say (or do) anything to win a case as a lawyer - channeling a brain damaged baby's thoughts at birth - is sick, even if it worked.

[whometense]

18. That hearing the other day -

the Small Business one, when Kerry quoted Shakespeare as a joke, "kill all the lawyers"? First thing that popped into my head was Edwards.

[TayTay]

22. Whome, OMG, I had the same thought!

OMG! We are on the same wave-length again.

I didn't get to see any of this stuff today, it's nice to see the recaps from people I trust.

[whometense]

26. That's really funny!

Being a lawyer himself, he can quote that with impunity - self-mockery and all.

[Inuca]

28. Same here, and it is not new n/t

[demdiva]

32. I kind of agree. I used to be a huge fan, but I don't trust him

when it comes down to it.

[_dynamicdems]

49. Frankly, I can't stand the guy.

He's cocky, arrogant and egocentric. I can't stand to watch or listen to him. He irks the Hell out of me. If it came down to Obama and Hillary, I'd have to hold my nose and vote for him though. :rofl:

Too bad Kerry isn't running. Now there's a candidate I'd be proud to vote for.

[Mass]

7. Write to him and make clear you did not vote for the lesser of two evils in 2004

and that this statement does not make you think favorably of him.

It may be time to start a positive movement concerning Kerry. Make clear to democrats that they cannot step on him one day and then come the next day with outrageous praise because they need his supporters.

[wisteria]

11. Good idea. n/t

[MarjorieG]

37. Repair time

We once thought that a second Kerry campaign, whatever the result, would be an opportunity to correct impressions and the record. Clearly these beginning salvos will continue to use whatever the preconceptions, and that he/she will do a better job campaigning and winning.

Some people really saw through the RW talking points and hate mail, and some didn't. Where is the logic to trashing a candidate and a party someone voted for. Wanting to vote for a new candidate, with positive feeling and hope, is a far cry from Obama's diss to Kerry, by inference. The hold the nose had to do with people not knowing Kerry through the smears, both right and left, and the party not working to change that opinion.

I like the idea of emailing, writing the candidates as a shot across the bow, and remind the DNC that more support during the campaign, and at the recount, would have made all the difference, instead of looking ahead four years. Not paying attention to the real costs of war, lives lost during the four more years, instead of their own politics as usual. Losing what many really do consider the best chance for a good, great, and honest president of their lifetimes.

If the consultants were too involved, if there were problems, why not help during the campaign, rather than pot shots later. I'm not talking about Bill's help by suggesting of going along with anti-gay marriage amendment. McAuliffe had some responsibility about securing the vote and building up our party, beyond donor networks, that he fails to take responsibility for on his book tour. Mentioning the $14 million leftover, without revealing that we couldn't spend it, buy ads, or a recount the DNC wasn't in favor of.

We want a cleaner primary, and not giving primary ammo to the opposition. I add that anti-war and pro-war meaningless and ill-formed slogans came from our team.

Beyond Kos, and that is important, I guess, how do we start a repair campaign. Positive movement around the setadate, or other issues. I think we need to be proactive if we care about our guy, and what he is trying to accomplish.

[karynnj]

40. In the GD or GD -P thread

someone said he did not say 2004 so it was vaguer. (the problem is no matter who the two are, there will be some people who like neither. I knew many Republicans who were in that position in 2004. This is an old moderate Republican area and GWB never played well. In 2004, many voted Kerry, many their economic interest.

[wisteria]

9. So now he is calling a fellow senator evil? I don't like this either. I wonder if

he would of said that if Kerry was present? Hold our noses no the less too.
I think he owes Kerry an apology. He put his foot in his mouth. of course, no one will say anything because it is Kerry. Only Fox News will report it as a knock against Kerry.

[sandnsea]

12. He said that!!??

Holy cow. What a DUMB thing to say on so many levels. I was afraid he wouldn't get the media assault, and he doesn't. HE would be turned into the same thing if he were the candidate, somebody needs to give him a clue pretty quickly.

[beachmom]

14. BLM has a good discussion in GDP why what a lot of what Obama

is doing here (she doesn't mention him by name) only hurts Dems in the long run:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3091331#3091394

[ginnyinWI]

16. his line didn't get a lot of applause, either.

So I don't think it was very well received.

Edwards gave his boilerplate about the poor, and Hillary restated her entering-the-race speech. "I'm in and I'm in to win!" I find her voice so grating that I almost turned it off! Even listening from the next room (cleaning out bookcases today).

[whometense]

19. There's a reason why

being so green is not necessarily an asset in running for president.

Either he's unforgiveably arrogant or unforgiveably untested. In either case, I'm liking him less and less. The question is, how many dem voters will he alienate before he learns the ropes? He's already done quite a number on the baby boomer cohort - a very large voting block.

[Inuca]

20. ANd if you are right...

... and you very well may be, we may be left with HILLARY, NOOOOOO!!! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[ginnyinWI]

21. Too soon to tell

She may peak way too early, and someone else will emerge as front-runner. No matter what the media says! Wasn't JK far behind at this time in 2003?

[TayTay]

23. Sen. Kerry did not make the winter meetings in 2003

He was having cancer surgery. The loss was felt. The 2003 Winter DNC meetings were what started Dr. Dean on his way that year.

[ProSense]

24. Playing politics with

war.

:grr:

[whometense]

25. Wow.

What a disingenuous POS. She is showing real disdain for the intelligence of the voting population.

:grr:

[TayTay]

27. Plus, last night at the AIPAC dinner

she just about strained a vocal cord trying to say how tough she would be with Iran and that we couldn't take any options off the table and all that stuff. (If she gets any tougher on Iran, it's going to Hillary sitting on the end of a missile waiving her hat in air and shouting 'Yee-haw M*therf*ckers, take that." It's Hillary in Dr. Strangelove Returns!)

It's like Hillary has a daisy in her hand. "I love war, I love it not, I love war, I love it not." I wonder what the last petal will be?

[whometense]

29. Her and Holy Joe both -

AIPAC is sure to bring out the very worst in any democrat. I hate the pandering to the religious right - Christian OR Jewish, it makes me sick.

She proves to me every single day that she is what I most despise in politics - the calculating bastard who stands for nothing. She, I'm afraid, is our very own Margaret Thatcher.

[MarjorieG]

41. AIPAC is big money, NY power, and the worst thing for Israel.

[MBS]

42. McAuliffe actually bragged about the Thatcher-Hillary parallels in a

recent interview. Cracker-jack politician that he is, he seems to think this is a GOOD thing! :crazy::crazy:

[MarjorieG]

46. Hillary is seeming very neo-con corporate, AIPAC.

Unapologetically. Beyond having to fawn for dollars, she needs the country who has not moved from the conservative memes. Dems won't have a choice, and those same folks made our lives miserable last time because Kerry wasn't perfect. He actually is, almost, but the media and spin wouldn't let them think big picture at all.

I get laughed at when I say the Thatcher comparison, which is intentionally created. Whatever you need, you have it in Hillbilly3.

[ginnyinWI]

30. to me, she came off as making wild promises

as if she were going to be made Queen. "I will do this, I will do that" rather than "we need to..." or "America needs..." which would be much more democratic.

[wisteria]

31. Just what we need a queen to add to the king we have in office now. n/t

[ProSense]

33. Sickening! n/t

[whometense]

34. One of the (many) things I hate most about Bush

is the way all his speeches are full of "I" and "me". It betrays an attitude that is unbecoming to the office. Everything I hear about her makes me like her less and less.

[MBS]

35. I found this session pretty depressing : (

I just finished watching the whole thing on CSPAN web archive. Like most folks here, all I could think of is that none of these guys could hold a candle to JK. Not even close.

Oddly (since I have trouble taking his candidacy seriously, and have some real hesitations about him), Dodd's speech seemed to me one of the better speeches of the (sorry) lot.
Clark is a bright guy, but he still feels very inexperienced, and it seemed as if the audience was not reacting to him at all.
Kucinich is very well-meaning, but, again, I have trouble taking him as a serious candidate.

Edwards. . I share the opinions of people here: there's something about him that, at best, gets on my nerves. At worst, I don't trust him somehow. And I don't think he's grown much since 2004. They panned to Elizabeth in the audience. . made me wonder what her private thoughts were. Evangelical-type speaking style, people standing up, but. . like I said. . it doesn't do it for me.

Obama: good words, but . . show me the money. And experience. And there was that sentence about holding your nose, that others have mentioned. Truly unclassy, and , for me, almost a deal-breaker in itself. Actually, he DID get applause for that line, which troubled me. It wasn't his biggest applause, but there were people there clapping. That line deserved a round of boos, or at least total silience. Another thing: for his touted speaking skills (which I don't doubt, since I was in the hall for his Democratc Convention speech), this was not really riveting oratory.

Hillary-- with others, I share the nails-on-a-blackboard reaction to her hectoring, scolding speaking style. She must really think that "I'm in to win" line is a winner. For me, it's a big loser, and summarizes all the reasons I pray she doesn't become the nominee. I didn't think that the audience was wild with enthusiasm. .

A general thing: while I'm glad people are finally talking about energy, environment and global warming, every single one of these guys are Johnny-come-latelys to the topic, and (have you noticed?) they do NOT give credit to people like Gore and Kerry who have been on this for years. And they do NOT know their stuff. Hillary stumbled on global warming comments, referred to carbon dioxide emissions as (after some faltering tries) "gas emissions".
Not impressive.

Not a single person mentioned the name John Kerry the entire 2 hours and 48 minutes. Dodd could have and should have mentioned Kerry with regard to Brian Freeman, but didn't. All of them could have mentioned him in the context of the environment. (Hillary has mentioned Kerry in interviews and campaign stops, but only to criticize his campaign). A pox on them all.

I am so not impressed.

[politicasista]

36. .....

:grouphug:

[MarjorieG]

38. That line also bothers me.

There are so many early Dean supporters, or talk tough Democrats, who might have wished for a different candidate. Matching their emotions, without other concerns. Kerry did improve on the trail, but what got him, and will our next group, is what the media and RW portrays and deconstructs.

I am so tired of Southern evangelism, a la Bill, when he gets going, and definitely Edwards. Smarmy charm.

Noticed that Kerry always mentions Dodd, as regards the Freeman meeting, and Dodd never mentions Kerry. Says all we need to know about the next couple years and generosity of spirit.

[MBS]

39. yeah, totally. It's the lack of generosity.

In addition to his unfailing mention of Dodd when he talks about his recent ME trip, Kerry also always mentions Gore when he talks about the environment. As I walked to the market, I thought to myself, "It's the generosity that sets Kerry apart." He is genuinely gracious and generous. So far, I do not see these qualities in other candidates, at least not in their public political speeches.

[karynnj]

48. I'm kind of surprised Dodd didn't

He always mentioned Kerry when he spoke of parts of that trip in the SFRC. It also takes nothing away to say Senator Kerry and I especially as there is an 8 to 10% of the Democratic party that consistently stood with Kerry. By being the only one being nice to him he has the opportunity to pick us up. Going from teh 1 or 2% he's at to say 8 or 9 would get him major attention.

There very likely will be a need for an experienced anti-Hillary.

[wisteria]

44. The focus is on the candidates and apparently campaigning

doesn't allow one to give credit where credit is do. It is all about them. This whole event today has let me down. They/he backed out to make room for this group?

[MarjorieG]

45. All about follow the leader, as in Bill3

Who will not get off the stage. Wish people understood Bill had different challenges, initially, and he grew on the job. In ways, I add, not pretty or helpful to this country.

Someone should play the debates side by side, and realize Kerry the far more presidential.

[Inuca]

53. Question

what exactly does Bill3 stand for? I saw it several times already, and I have no idea.

[ginnyinWI]

58. I'm pretty sure it means

that Hillary's first term would = Bill's third term.

[_dynamicdems]

50. I agree with you: a pox on all of them.

The whole lot of them combined don't equal one John Kerry.

[wisteria]

51. Amen! n/t

[Mass]

43. ??? Can somebody explain this one to me

This is not from the DNC Winter Meeting, but this is an interview from today.

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=12434

hat’s so complicated. I think that, can I rephrase slightly what you just said?

Sure.

If you were to tell me that they did have the weapons of mass -- it’s just so hard to answer these hypothetical questions -- I believe that my vote was wrong, I take responsibility for that. But it was wrong for two reasons; it wasn’t just wrong for one. It was wrong because, first, the basis for me voting for it was the weapons of mass destruction, and that was just false. But the second is I felt a great conflict then about giving George Bush this authority, because I didn’t trust him. And I resolved that conflict on the side of voting for it. Now seeing what’s happened, I would not resolve that conflict that way. This president should not have been given the authority to go into Iraq and I think on both fronts -- that’s the thing I can confidently say to you -- on both fronts the vote was wrong.

I have huge problems with many aspects of this interview, but apparently Edwards did NOT trust Bush, but gave him authority. Does that give you confidence in the man.

[karynnj]

47. The problems I have are:

this is incoherent. Kerry may speak inj long senetences but they are grammatically correct and make sense when you parse them - this doesn't.

The second problem goes to honesty.
- There is an Oct 2003 Hardball interview where Edwards (not wanting to let anyone think he was fooled) said he never believed there were WMD and he thought there were other reasons to go to war.

As this is about his reason at the point he voted, the new view and the old view can not both be true.

[Inuca]

54. incoherent

that was my first reaction too. WHat is he talking about? I had to read it a couple of times to figure it out. He can be articulate (no offense intended :-)), so I assume the incoherence is mainly due to trying to obfuscate, though as a lawyer this should not be too difficult either. By the way, Vilsack just started talking, starts right away with "I dod not know my mother, I did not know my father", "I have always been an outsider".

[karynnj]

56. excellent observation on why are very articulate man

is incoherent and I don't like it. The media took Kerry's articulate, but somewhat intricate explanations that tried to challange the conflation of the vote and the actual decision to go to war and pretended they didn't get it. It was crystal clear to all of us, so I assume that the majority of the press core actually understood it. Here, there is no way to put everything Edwards has said in the past and have them all be true at the same time.

[wildflowergardener]

52. Gov Bill Richardson

I have cspan on this morning. I didn't see the speeches yesterday but am watching today. I'll go back and watch the others later this weekend.

I am liking Gov. Bill Richardson so far. Esp. him talking about not tearing down the other candidates during the primaries, and to concentrate on the republicans.

Also, his stand on getting the troops out of Iraq.

Don't know much about him, though or if he has a chance.

Meg

[Inuca]

55. He looks like a mischievous teddy hear

will this help or hurt :-)?

[wisteria]

57. He is a former member of the Clinton cabinet.

He refused to allow a vote count in New Mexico in 04 even though there were issues there and doing a count may has assisted in Ohio.
I believe he is DLC too.

[wildflowergardener]

59. good to know

There is only so much you can learn from a 7-10 minute speech.

How about Gov. Vilsack. I went to school in Iowa so have a bias there.

I know I'm not going to find another John Kerry, but looking for someone to support other than Hillary.

Meg