This doesn't sound good

[beachmom]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/21/224654/886#c474

John Edwards is having a press conference at noon to discuss Elizabeth Edwards' health. He already cancelled a campaign stop to go to the doctor with her. It seems to me you don't have a press conference to announce everything's okay. My thoughts and prayers go out to her and the Edwards family, and to all of their supporters, too.

[beachmom]

1. KG has more at The Dem Daily:

http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=5512#more-5512

[whometense]

2. I'll be thinking of them all morning. n/t

[blm]

3. I don't think so. I think even ifit's bad news they'd just cut back some while

she undergoes further treatment.

They are not going to drop out with all the advantages he has in the race at this point.

Elizabeth is tough and she won't let him, imo.

[karynnj]

9. May depend how bad the news is

and what treatments are recommended. I think well enough of Edwards to think that he would not let her go through any intensive treatment alone. I assume that her doctors will explain what the problem is and how it could be dealt with. At this point, it may be something other than a reoccurance of cancer.

My thoughts have been with her. She needs all her energy to fight this, especially for those two young kids., That's more important than the possible monkey wrench it throws into what would have been a very unlikely win of the nomination.

[blm]

16. Of course, but I can also see that she wants him effecting the debate where he can

and I just don't see either of them asserting a permanent decision. I think they've come too far to turn back, and they will tackle whatever it is as tough as they can and to battle on.

Hopefully, none of the other candidates will attack Edwards at this time the way Kerry was attacked while he was undergoing cancer treatment.

[beachmom]

36. When I wrote that this morning, I was thinking the bad news would

be that EE's cancer had returned (not to say that she was healthy). I had no judgment about what they would do about it. The fact that they're continuing the campaign doesn't surprise me at all.

[MBS]

4. this doesn't sound good to me, either

Oh, dear. I guess we'll find out soon enough. FIngers crossed that she's OK.

[Mass]

5. I hope she is OK.

[rox63]

6. Sending prayers and positive, healing vibes to EE, JRE, their families, and their supporters n/t

[whometense]

7. A little more at Salon

Doesn't sound great, but we can hope whatever this is, it's just a minor matter.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2007/03/22/edwards/index.html

A "major development" in Edwards campaign?

One day after a medical appointment aimed at assessing his wife's recovery from breast cancer, John Edwards will hold a press conference today in North Carolina. Aides have said to expect what the Associated Press calls a "major development" in Edwards' White House run. Based on word from a "close family friend," the New York Times says the announcement Edwards will make today will "affect, at least temporarily, the future of the campaign."

-- Tim Grieve

[ray of light]

13. I'm grieving for them.

[Firespirit]

8. Oh no

I think it's a foregone conclusion that she's ill again. I just hope it's not "the worst," for them or for their campaign.

[rox63]

10. Update: Edwards to suspend campaign

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0307/Edwards_to_Suspend_Campaign.html

March 22, 2007

Edwards to Suspend Campaign

John Edwards is suspending his campaign for President, and may drop out completely, because his wife has suffered a recurrence of the cancer that sickened her in 2004, when she was diagnosed with breast cancer, an Edwards friend told The Politico.

"At a minimum he's going to suspend" the campaign, the source said. "Nobody knows precisely how serious her recurrence is. It’ll be another couple of days before there’s complete clarity."

"For him right now he has one priority which is her health and the security of the two young children," said the friend.

As for the campaign, "You don't shut this machine off completely, but everything will go on hold."

[Mass]

11. I feel so sorry for her and her family.

[whometense]

14. Me too.

Whatever else, this is just very sad news. I hope it is relatively minor, and something they can conquer quickly.

[Firespirit]

12. I hope that leak was authorized.

They weren't going to give their press conference for another half hour.

JK's announcement was leaked to the media and it screwed with the way it was supposed to come off.

We probably won't ever know whether this was authorized, but for the Edwards' sake I hope it was.

[TayTay]

19. I hope so too.

The way the Kerry announcement went was awful. But that was politics.

This is someone's medical condition and it could be life and death. I would hope that good people remember that and treat this with the respect if deserves.

Elizabeth Edwards was really respected and held with deep affection by a lot of people I have talked to who worked against and then for the Edwards in the last campaign. God be with her and her family and may everything turn out okay.

[blm]

17. Kinda what I expected - the machine can't just shut down when it's gone that far.

and I doubt Elizabeth would want it to after their efforts all these years to get this far.

[Mass]

18. Suspended, but it seems very unlikely that it will start again.

I think a lot of people would really feel uncomfortable if he restarts the campaign with two young kids and his wife just recovering. My bet is that, if he tries, reporters will tear him apart .

I understand that people who like him a lot and have invested in him may hope differently, but it is difficult for me to see that happen.

[blm]

22. He has strong surrogates if he chooses to use them.

I would CERTAINLY respect a David Bonior as surrogate scenario. He's smart and tough.

[karynnj]

20. This is tough

Best wishes to her and her family - I keep thinking of the two little kids especially - though it will likely be harder on Cate and her husband. I hope this can be treated well and easily.

[wisteria]

23. The Edward's oldest daughter is married? I didn't know that.

isn't she in her early twenties?

[karynnj]

55. Ooops poor writing on my part - I meant Elizabeth's husband - JRE

[Mass]

21. CNN now saying the politico report is false...

[wisteria]

15. Unfortunate and sad news if it is what we suspect it is.

Any recurrence can not be viewed lightly. I wish the Edwards' well. I have had my differences with John Edwards, but I never doubted his devotion to his family and to Elizabeth.
And, Elizabeth is generally a good and kind person, her comments about the Kerry's aside.
I pray they will overcome this latest set-back.

[Mass]

24. Very, very sad news. I admire how they try to stay optimistic, but this not good news.

[Firespirit]

25. Well color me surprised

I hope this works out well for them. Terribly sad about how she will never be cured of this, though. :(

I imagine that she had to lay down the law to him, that he was not to shut it down on account of this. If she's feeling asymptomatic, then for practical purposes there's no reason to do so, but there's the psychological factor as well. This sort of news can be a drain on the soul.

I wish them both well.

[Mass]

26. Color me surprise, but I cannot understand how, after having heard that EE

has bone cancer and will never be cured, that many people are saying it is good news.

I know this is not what they are referring to (but the fact that the campaign continues), but is politics more important that what she is going thru.

[TayTay]

28. I don't understand this as well

They have kids, ages 6 & 8. I don't understand this. I am very happy that the cancer is treatable, but I don't understand this decision. They have little kids.

[whometense]

30. To be honest,

I've always thought that Elizabeth was the person in the family with the most driving ambition. Not that there's anything wrong with that - there's emphatically not.

But if that's so, then I can see why it would be her wish that the campaign continues. Personally, I feel sick for them. But maybe this is what Elizabeth feels will help keep her going. I have no idea, but just speculating.


Edited to add that Jane Hamsher, who knows a thing or two about dealing with cancer, is thinking along the same lines: http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/03/22/best-wishes-for-elizabeth-edwards/

[beachmom]

53. Did you see that EE herself commented?

Update: From the comments: Thank you, Jane. And all the commenters here. You all inspire us. Now, back to work. — Elizabeth Edwards

[MBS]

63. this makes sense to me

I've had some close friends with terminal cancer, and the best (and, for them, really only ) way to handle the situation was to continue to live their lives, full-bore. For them, keeping at their professional activities was really a lifeline.
People have different ideas of exactly what's more important , but the thing is, whatever that is -- family, hobby, treasured friends, political causes, professional commitment-- it's important to continue to give that priority. As Firespirit mentioned below, there are different answers, all of them valid.
But I would guess that Jane Hamsher would have a pretty good idea about what's in Elizabeth's head right now. Thanks for that link.

[wisteria]

27. Um, If the race continues why was it necessary for all the PR hype.

I apologize to anyone I offend, but this announcement could have been handled quietly and with a press release. Why the late evening PR yesterday and then all the hoopla surrounding a press conference today. I hope I am wrong, but this could appear to some to have been done for hype and sympathy.
This doesn't however change Mrs. Edward's diagnosis and I do wish her well.

[Mass]

29. Is it possible they changed their decision in between? Clearly,

somebody announced he was suspending the campaign, so I would imagine it did not come out of the blue, then, now, they are continuing.

However, like TayTay, I do not understand the decision. It is beyond me that that they would chose to campaign in such circomstances, but this is their choice and it should be respected.

[TayTay]

31. Absolutely

And hopes and prayers that the treatment does what it is supposed to and that this becomes a chronic condition that doesn't interfere with Elizabeth Edwards' quality of life.

My prayers are with her and her family for a good ongoing outcome.

[ProSense]

35. This is very sad news.

I'm amazed they found the courage to continue. I'm sure there is a psychological benefit from not quitting, not giving in to the disease. Still, presidential campaigns are extremely grueling. I wish them well, and will keep Elizabeth in my prayers.

[wisteria]

33. Yes, I thought of that also. I don't know. I just find it hard to fully trust the Edwards'

motivation. Surely, Elizabeth campaigning or not being able to campaign for her husband, due to her illness, will allow them some additional media attention. I am just saying, I am personally not sure their motivation in holding the press conference with the yesterday lead-up and this decision to continue with the campaign is entirely pure.

As I said, I hope I am just being cynical(I do not hold a high opinion of John Edwards) and they wouldn't use her illness to attract more attention to the campaign.

I hope their decision is just in the hopes of keeping going and not giving up on your dreams because of set-backs.

[beachmom]

34. Okay, I'm just going to disagree with all of you on this

Everyone reacts differently when they get cancer. This is their reaction, and I think it is real -- some people want to carry on their life just as it is, while others decide they want to change everything. For the Edwards, they are in the place where they want to be -- running for president -- and they intend to carry on that campaign full throttle as best as they are able.

In regards to the kids, well hey -- I don't agree with them on running for president with their kids so little, even when Elizabeth was healthy. So with that said, continuing with the campaign with cancer is just one more disagreement in values I have with her. No cynicism necessary -- this is who they are which is that they want to be in that White House and put in the policies they have campaigned on. And nothing will get in their way for trying to do that, not Hillary, not Obama, not the '04 loss, not the media ignoring them, and CERTAINLY not cancer.

[TayTay]

37. It is her choice

It's just, this is not a good diagnosis.

Read me: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/22/131442/750

I do hope she beats the odds and makes it to five or more years. I really do. But this is terrible and heartbreaking news for that family.

[Firespirit]

47. Hmm

This is an unpleasant thought, but I'll say it.

If the doctors told her, "We don't know enough yet about your particular case, but statistically, you probably have less than a decade," that could be a huge motivator for a certain type of person to DO whatever it is that they always wanted to do. I know that if I had a diagnosis like that, I wouldn't want to spend that time mulling over the illness. I'd make a list of everything I wanted to do, and I'd do it.

Everyone reacts differently to this type of news. Some people, when given a prognosis like that, will decide that none of their plans are more important than just spending as much time as possible with their family. This type of person often moves in with a son or daughter while being treated, and become part of the household. Others will have a cause, or even just a personal wish, that they want to fulfill. I know I would be the second type of person. That's not to say that this sort of individual doesn't want to spend time with their family, just that they're focused on doing everything they ever wanted to do instead of just one thing.

Neither choice is the "right" way to react. It depends on the situation. The Edwardses have been professional politicians for as long as those kids have been alive; that's the environment they are growing up in. I'm sure they are good parents and spend lots of time with them. However, they definitely have a cause that they feel they must fight for, regardless of personal difficulties.

Again, this is all speculation, because there's really no suggestion yet that the doctor has given EE any sort of time frame. As I understand it there are even outstanding tests. But it's food for thought.

[TayTay]

50. I get that

but moving in with her kids is not an option. Her kids are 6 & 8 years old.

[beachmom]

52. As a SAHM, I'm going to have to instill some reality into this

No way are they spending "lots" of time with their kids. I'm sure you have an idea of what kind of schedule they keep, and even if their kids travel with them (they did, apparently for the '04 primaries), their parents are very busy working, not hanging out with them playing.

But like you said, EE is a "cause" type, and of course, the kids would be in school a good part of the day as well as there being time at night when they go to sleep. Fighting for more cancer research would be good, but running for president takes a toll on family. This is the choice they have made (and really for every politician this is so to a certain extent, but running for POTUS is on a whole different realm of time and stress). The question is if the cancer will change perspective on this. Chances are, probably not.

[wisteria]

46. I am not questioning the decision to carry on. That is theirs to make- I don't care about that.

I was questioning all the hype surrounding it. This information could have been relayed in a press release. I question the motivation behind all the PR. Again, not the decision to proceed.

I am certainly saddened to hear the news as I stated earlier and I will be praying for her to remain strong and healthy. I do not wish the Edward's any ill will. however, that doesn't change my questioning all the attention they grabbed over this.
Was all this PR necessary?

[Firespirit]

49. I understand your concern, but

I'm not going to rush to judgment about that. It is very likely that they had no control over just how much it would be. There was apparently an unauthorized and incorrect leak.

He canceled the appearance, which automatically set off alarm bells. The media would've speculated about it even if he hadn't announced that there would be a press conference.

The media machine operates without respect to the people it covers. The pre-election 24/7 slimefest on JK proves that.

[wisteria]

60. True, I may have been a bit harsh. n/t

[karynnj]

59. I don't think this is fair

If he dropped out, a press release and a request to honor his family's privacy would have sufficed, though if they wanted to speak to their supporters and others - to say anything they wanted to say, it would be great. As it is, with the campaign continuing, it was important to get the story out so that they controlled it. It was great to see and hear Elizabeth, who handled it with poise and grace.

This is awful news. I doubt this type of press conference could be anything other than hard. I think, it was about 4 years ago, when Senator Kerry had a press conference on his cancer. He had a far better prognosis, but there was the same sense that the timing was cruel - that it would hurt his effort to become President. As the Presidential candidate, everything had to be disclosed. The requirements on First Lady are not so clear - but they did the right thing in getting out the information.

She says she is asymptomic and that she will be treated for this forever. I assume that this may mean that she takes on a less grueling schedule - though that may make each appearance more note worthy. I assume that the little kids will likely travel with her as they did in 2004. She will likely spend more time with them than many people do with their kids. I assume that she will try to pack in as much with them as possible - though that's not really our business.

I still don't support Edwards - because I thought he had a shallow resume in 2004, which was obvious in the end primary debates when it was mostly - him and Kerry. I would support him over Hillary, who I don't trust on Iraq. He's a good person - Kerry wouldn't have picked him otherwise.

[wisteria]

61. Perhaps, my first reaction to the hype was misplaced. I suppose we will have to

wait and see if this becomes the end of it except for updates now and again, or it because part of the campaign.
I would hope I was absolutely wrong on this.
And, I wish nothing but the best for the entire family.

[TayTay]

38. I think there might still be some shock

associated with the diagnosis. I mean, Elizabeth Edwards has access to excellent health care and, by all accounts, was completely diligent about taking care of her health and doing everything she could. She was ruled cancer-free.

Then, OMG, this. This is just awful. I mean, that is the basis for me saying, they have little kids. This diagnosis is not good.

[beachmom]

41. I think we agree. This is really a shock, and that's why I think

their reaction -- to continue business as usual -- is a very normal one, at this stage. But with the kids, that is very sad. Sigh. Obviously, if it were me, I admit, I would probably continue normally at the beginning (but I'm at home with my kids already, I would just do MORE with them), but then with reflection, I'd probably write down what I want to do before I die, and then execute that plan. Thing is -- running for president is a lofty goal, but (God I hate to say this) even if Edwards won and became president, it is low odds that EE would live to see a full first term, never mind a second term. And during that time, he would be sooooo busy, they wouldn't have quality time together. And if she slipped away while he was president, how would that effect his job performance?

I think we need to give them more time to fully understand what this means.

My theory on that Politico story -- John was ready to suspend the campaign and Elizabeth wouldn't let him. We've seen this before with the Edwards bloggers -- one story going out and then a different one later on. It doesn't mean the first story was false; just that they changed their minds.

[TayTay]

43. We do agree

This is a tragedy and I think it will take time to sink in. My heart goes out to them, it's so sad.

[Mass]

44. We do agree.

[kerrygoddess]

40. I think they will ease out slowly

Optimistic or not, EE feeling fine now, etc, the stress and toll of presidential campaign in this political climate will not be easy for her. It's not easy under the best of circumstances. I'm surprised they are continuing on, and said as much here: http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=5515

[beachmom]

32. I just got home and heard the news -- just awful for EE

As far as their decision to continue, well, when you're hit with really bad news, sometimes what is best to deal with it is to stick to what is important to you and what you CAN control, and that is his presidential campaign. It's actually easier to continue than to drop out, psychologically speaking. Only time will tell if this can be sustained. I admit I know very little about what her diagnosis means -- but having cancer in your bone sounds very scary.

[whometense]

39. Kerry press release:

John Kerry on John and Elizabeth Edwards’ Announcement



“Teresa and I are saddened by the news of Elizabeth’s illness, but we know her strength and the support of their family will sustain her and John through this difficult period.



“Elizabeth has been through tough challenges before, and in sharing her story over the last year she inspired countless others to know they could do it too. Last fall I heard Elizabeth speak about her experience at Lance Armstrong’s LiveStrong Summit and I saw the hope and strength she helped inspire. She moved us all with her brave fight and courageous spirit. Elizabeth is an example to everyone coping with cancer.



“Teresa and I send the entire Edwards family our strongest hopes for her during this battle and we will keep her in our prayers.”



###

[Firespirit]

42. I've heard

that JK has personally touched base with JE about all this, too.

[whometense]

45. I'd be shocked if

he hadn't.

[wisteria]

48. That is the kind of guy he is. n/t

[politicasista]

51. Agree

Thoughts and prayers are with the Edwards family. This is awful. :(

[rox63]

54. I'm not going to judge their decision

People react differently when faced with possibly terminal illnesses. I can't judge them because of this. I suspect that John did intend to suspend the campaign, and she ended up talking him out of it.

I've known a couple of people who had Stage IV metastatic breast cancer. Unfortunately, neither of them survived more than 2 years after they got that diagnosis. I hope that isn't what they are facing.

[beachmom]

56. I don't like Jay Carney, but he has uttered the unutterable

which I think should be talked about:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1601788,00.html

"The campaign goes on. The campaign goes on strongly." The words from John Edwards were a shock, coming as they did after he and his wife Elizabeth had spent the opening minutes of their press conference in Chapel Hill, N.C., describing how her breast cancer had returned, and spread to her bones. Just moments before, John Edwards had explained that because his wife's cancer had spread "from breast to bone, it is no longer curable." With that grim statement, I—and, presumably, many other listeners—assumed that the former North Carolina Senator and top-tier contender for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination was ending his campaign, or at least suspending it.

...

He clearly meant it to be inspiring, but there is also something discomfiting about that statement. Even more discomfiting was Edwards' claim that by soldiering on while his wife has incurable cancer, he would be proving that he could deal with the pressures of being president. I wonder how voters will react to that sentiment.

Edwards is staying in the race, so the effect of today's announcement on the Democratic contest will be limited. But there will be an effect. Despite his and his wife's optimism, political professionals, donors, activists and regular voters will all have to wonder going forward whether or not Edwards will be able to stay in the race all the way to the end. It is certainly true that with effective treatment, Elizabeth Edwards could live many years. But it is also true that even the best treatment isn't always effective, and that bone cancer is particularly lethal. Edwards' supporters, and surely many average Americans, have to be wondering at what point the candidate will decide that his duties as husband and father to three children, including a 6 and 8 year old, trump his duty to his country and the cause of winning the White House.




I take it even further and wonder as president how the Edwards will deal with this. Weirdly enough, there is a dailykos diary up with the title: "Did we see an American President again today?" (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/22/1423/39398) and some mentioned the movie "The American President". Few seemed to get the irony that he was a widow. And unlike the movies, we need to grapple with an emotionally crippled president overcome with grief of losing his wife. All of this may be too brutal to consider today, but the job of the POTUS is no ordinary one -- had this been John Edwards with the disease, he would have had no choice but to drop out. But the spouse of the candidate who is clearly his most trusted advisor? That is not necessarily so, but something voters should take into consideration. I know I am.

[Mass]

57. I heard the part about ...

he would be proving that he could deal with the pressures of being president. I wonder how voters will react to that sentiment.

This is the type of statement that is typical of Edwards, and the main reason I have problems with him. I guess to a point, he is probably right. We expect a president to be strong in difficult situations, but, at the same time, it seems so off-key (?) that it lets me very uncomfortable.

I am not particularly bothered by the fact that a first lady could die. It could be true of anybody. This is not the issue (at least for me). However, these types of statement, where everything seems to be good to use for a campaign, is exactly the reason I cannot support Edwards even if his program is one I could like. Of course, it is just me, and this conference did not make any difference for me. It just confirmed things that make me dislike Edwards.

Once again, I feel sorry for him and them, but I cannot support him as a nominee. I just do not connect with him.

However, why is Carney not writing this about Mitt Romney, whose wife has, and has had MS for years?

[wisteria]

62. You made the point I have been trying to make.

I wonder if the decision to stay in the race today was based on what may be good for the campaign image.

[Island Blue]

58. This breaks my heart.

I wish only the best for Elizabeth Edwards and her family. I found DU because I heard (or read, can't remember) her talking about it somewhere. My thoughts are with her, and I hope she beats the odds and is with us for a long time to come.

As far as some of the comments in this thread, I guess you could say I'm a bit disappointed but not necessarily surprised. (I still love you all though, so no hard feelings.) I can't imagine what the Edwards' have been through as a family (with the loss of Wade and now Elizabeth's illness) so there is no possible way I can judge them or their decision to carry on (at least for the moment) with the campaign. I respect them for doing what they think is the right thing to do for THEIR family.

Best wishes Elizabeth. :hug:

[beachmom]

64. David Kuo (who used to work at the WH) has a post that sums

up what it's really about:

http://www.beliefnet.com/blogs/JWalking/2007/03/cancer-is-not-political-issue.html

Cancer is Not a Political Issue


"My MRI is on Thursday," I said to Elizabeth Edwards a month ago.

"I go in for my next round of appointments in a couple weeks." she said.

"Has everything been clear up till now?"

"Yeah," she said, knocking on wood and saying, "Thank God."

Elizabeth Edwards and I shared a common experience of overcoming dreaded disease. Hers was breast cancer. Mine was a brain tumor. We got each other.

I told her how one of my blog readers, a neuro-oncologist, had chided me because I had taken up professional bass fishing after my White House days. I was irresponsible, the doctor told me. I should be advocating for brain tumor patients. I told her I didn't want to become known as "the brain tumor guy."

She understood. Even though she wrote about her breast cancer recovery, she didn't want to be the breast cancer woman either. She wanted to go on and live life. We left with a promise to pray for each other.

...

I had no doubt about what would happen to the campaign. It would go on. She wouldn't allow anything else. To quit the campaign would be to give in to the disease - it would be the ultimate admission of being the "cancer woman."

Please go to the link to read the rest. This guy worked for Bush yet he is one of the gentlest souls in politics, and his calls for compassion are an inspiration to me.

[WildEyedLiberal]

70. I can relate

My entire life I have been "the girl with heart problems" to some people, mostly well-meaning but extremely overbearing family members. When people look at you as "the person with ____ disease," then the disease comes to define you. There are people who enjoy that kind of attention because of the sympathy and pity it brings, but I am not one of them, and I suspect Elizabeth Edwards isn't, either.

I want to be defined by who I am - the sum total of my character, my integrity, my actions, and my principles. I don't want to be defined by an illness I have little personal control over. I didn't ask for it, and I don't want to be the object of sympathy because of it, because then it becomes the central tenet of who I am - "oh, poor WildEyedLiberal, she's that girl who had heart surgery." I want people to say, "oh, there's WildEyedLiberal, she's a real firebrand" or "that WildEyedLiberal is a dedicated and loyal supporter of John Kerry" - and so on. My condition has nothing to do with who am I and it is not what I want to be known for when people think of me.

My operation was just a week ago and I already feel stir-crazy. I just want to resume my normal activity and get on with my life. I basically can't do anything physical for the next several weeks and it's driving me nuts already. So I understand Elizabeth's desire to keep going and keep pressing on and not let the disease define her life.

I wish her and their family the best - I hope she gets the most state of the art care available and stays as healthy as possible as long as possible.

[wisteria]

71. Welcome back. I am happy to see you are doing well. n/t

[JI7]

72. just like JK

and yes, probably Elizabeth also.


"I basically can't do anything physical for the next several weeks and it's driving me nuts already. "

good to see you back .

[karynnj]

73. Best wishes for as smooth and quick a recovery as possible

Your comments are incredible here. Possibly because we all met via the internet, most of here knew you as the brilliant, thoughtful person you are, before knowing the medical problems.

I can imagine how tough the restrictions are. Get well soon.

[whometense]

84. That makes 100% sense to me.

And I'm thrilled to see you're at least back online. Welcome back. :hug:

[mloutre]

65. I think E'beth and John already answered some of your speculative points today...

... judging by some of the quotes from their press conference today, anyway.


Why did they miss an appearance yesterday and call a press conference for today, sparking all kinds of woeful speculation, only to announce their attentions to continue with the campaign despite her treatable-but-incurable prognosis?

E'beth: "Right now we feel incredibly optimistic... There were times yesterday that we thought it might be a lot worse than it is, and we wouldn't be having the same conference we're having right now with the same hopeful tone."


Why did they decide to continue with the campaign rather than put everything on hold?

John: "We’ve been confronted with these kinds of traumas and struggles already in our lives. When this happens, you have a choice: You can go cower in the corner and hide, or you can be tough and go out there and stand up for what you believe in... having been through some struggles together in the past, we know that the key is to keep your head up, keep moving, keep strong and we intend to do that exactly."

E'beth: "One of the reasons it's important from my perspective to move forward with this is that I'm immensely proud of his campaign. It's important to give the American people the opportunity to have a president like him."


But isn't E'beth's illness going to cause John to lose focus and turn inwards to take special care of her instead of doing what he needs to do as a candidate?

John: "I intend to do the same thing I have always done with Elizabeth. We have been married for 30 years, known each other longer than that. We will be in this every step of the way together."


How can the campaign continue without her being a key part of it now? How can she handle the stress and pressure when she's sick?

E'beth: "I don't look sickly, I don't feel sickly. I am as ready as any person can be for that.... I expect to do next week all the things I did last week. I don't expect my life to be significantly different."


But how can John go out on the campaign trail while his wife is sick? Shouldn't he stay at home with her instead?

John: "Any time, any place I need to be with Elizabeth I will be there — period."



(Sadly-necessary DU disclaimers: No, I do not work for the Edwards campaign in any capacity. No, I'm not even a supporter of John's presidential campaign at this time. But yes, I did get to spend some time getting to know E'beth in the course of the 2004 campaign and she impressed the hell out of me back then. She still does. So please light some candles and send some beams her way. And send some extra ones along for the kids and for John while you're at it. Thanks.)

[wisteria]

66. Thanks for posting this.

I for one, was very harsh on them today and I feel bad about that now. I always did wish them the best though. Now that I understand they weren't sure about the diagnosis yesterday, I wish I hadn't suggested what I did-shame on me.
I will be praying for the entire family to find comfort and that Elizabeth has many, many healthy years.

[beachmom]

67. I wish I could take a few of my posts away, too.

I don't know about anyone else, but this news was very distressing just in general -- the idea that someone you discuss and see on TV is sick and might not be here 5 years from now, even though she's fairly young. Thoughts and prayers to the Edwards is how I would like to end the evening, too.

[karynnj]

69. Same here - it does change perspectives.

and some things I've said seem petty.

[TayTay]

74. No, I don't understand this, but I respect the choice

This may be a difference between Type A personalities and non-Type A's. I understand that some people do define themselves through their work, they are what they do and should they stop being able to work, they, in a sense, stop being them. I understand some of this, but some of it I will never understand. I'm not a Type A.

We live in a work-obsessed culture. Americans take the least amount of vacations of any industrialized nation. The culture enforces the idea that work should take precedence over anything else and that being 'at work' is an end in and of itself. People are valuable because they work, they are not valuable when they cease to be able to do so. I don't believe in this. I think it is a dead-end and a barren philosophy and cruel.

There are many, many people in this country who don't have the options, support staff and money that Elizabeth Edwards will have that will enable her to continue working. The message that will go out from this in the media is that the decision to work is all that matters and it is a mark of bravery and willpower that she values work above all else and even cites work as a self-defining concept. (I work, therefore I am.) This is the model society holds up as the ideal. What about all the people who can't sustain that ideal? Why fight so hard for things like a Family-Leave bill that gives people with illnesses a right to take time off to fight their illness when the act of being at home, of recovering and of dealing head-on with the illness itself is so devalued?

People are not just valuable because they work. Human beings are valuable all the time and we should have a compassionate society that indeed values people even when they are sick. I am deeply troubled by what may come of this and I hope the press coverage does emphasize that Mrs. Edwards has advantages of wealth and privilege that are not like the ordinary American worker. She can work because wealth and privilege will bring support staff that will mitigate the circumstances of actual illness, circumstances that might crush much poorer and less-well known Americans under a terrible burden of expectations and debt.

It is wonderful that this brave, intelligent, passionate and well-spoken woman has chosen to fight her illness. I wish every American had the resources that she does so that they also could fight. I deeply fear that this will be used as another way of marginalizing those who can't do what she is doing and who might be morally demeaned because they don't want to continue to work. They are ill and they want to take time off to fully deal with the illness. It is simply something to think about and to say what place does work hold in this culture, at what point do we admire people simply because they have a high work ethic and who do we toss away because they can't meet that high standard? That is my concern. I do not take it back.

[Firespirit]

77. As a very strong Type A myself...

I actually do understand what you're saying.

I don't believe in "work for work's sake," and I'm the sort of Type A who has to have a goal to shoot for in everything I do, or it isn't worthwhile to me. The idea of work being a reward unto itself is an idea that I cannot wrap my head around, and I'm not sure that anyone really believes that idea. I rather suspect it's a comforting phrase they tell themselves to justify spending time on something that is going nowhere. Whether Type A or Type B, no one wants to think that their time is misspent -- they just have different ideas of what "misspent" means for them.

It would be shameful if the media held up Elizabeth as an example of working when you shouldn't work. Considering what the Edwards say they stand for, it would be particularly shameful in this case. What makes this different is that, for the time being at least, there's no physical reason why either of them should quit. (Psychological reasons are a whole different ballgame. I cannot imagine being told at a relatively young age that I would have cancer until I died. But I expect that they'll tackle the psychological concern when it rears its head.) Sometimes an otherwise healthy, fit person will get a bad but manageable diagnosis and will spiral into depression and continual ill-health by virtue of their own mind. I hope that she emphasizes that in her specific case, there's no reason not to continue doing what she was doing -- but that for others it could be different.

[TayTay]

78. I am deeply wary of this

The Republican argument is to remove entitlements from public spending and to make sure that only 'the deserving folks' get any benefits. (This is part of the discussion today on the Budget Resolution. Listen to how entitlements come across when Repubs speak of them. They disdain them and they disdain the very idea that people need any kind of assistance. The implied mindset is that undeserving people get these benefits and they should be severely cutback in order to preserve tax cuts for the rich and so forth.)

I am deeply wary of this. There are pitfalls here. The problem becomes one of emphasis, there are people without means and money who cannot sustain work, yet they are forced to because relevant support services are not there. Again, the situation for Elizabeth Edwards is tragic. But I would not hold her up as an example and role model. It is dangerous to do so because not everyone has the resources she will have to fight. I see elements of a class divide in this and it makes me very nervous.

Sen. Kerry used to mention a woman in NH in his '04 campaign who was forced to work at her job even though she was undergoing chemo treatments. She had no choice, work and keep the health benefits or quit, and lose everything. Her decision to continue working was not seen as something wonderful but rather as a failing of the present system. The Republicans love these types of situations where work is presented as the only goal. Again, it gives me severe pause. It is precisely these types of things that can lead to benefit cuts in their 'free market' arguments. I don't want to play into that. (Look what has happened in the aftermath of Katrina. Support payments have been linked to working 20 hours a week, no matter the fact that this might be impossible for some people. This is not a great thing.)

[Firespirit]

80. It's kind of a catch-22

If Edwards were to drop out, the only remaining presidential candidate who I believe might talk about poverty and class divides is Obama. Edwards has kind of staked it out as his pet issue.

While their withdrawal from the race on account of Elizabeth's health would be a way of legitimizing such things as sick leave, and the idea that you shouldn't have to work when you are ill, it would also take away their media visibility on that issue. I realize I am in the minority on this on this board, but I still think that JK would have more visibility to talk about the war if he were a presidential candidate. He's doing the best he can with the media platform he has, and I think he's focused more on behind-the-scenes work than talking, but there's really nothing like having the bully pulpit. And Edwards isn't even a sitting senator. If he dropped out, it would completely remove his ability to get any coverage on his pet issue, unless he decided to challenge Senator Dole for her seat. (Not a bad idea, that, if he does drop out later. And he's bound to be considering that.)

That said, if he stays in the race, her situation gives them a platform to talk about these issues, and about the unfairness and injustice inherent in the class divide. They could talk about how unfair it is that you just about have to be independently wealthy to afford getting seriously ill. That would require a paradigm shift, though, from what they've been doing. They would have to acknowledge that, yes, they're wealthy people, and not pretend to be "reg'lar folks" anymore.

[MonteLukast]

86. And also...

... I get the strong impression that pulling out would make Elizabeth less healthy in the end. If not in the physical realm, certainly in the emotional/spiritual/purposeful one.

Too many people are obsessed with living longer. I, for one, don't care how long one's life is. I care deeply about how full that life is.
It's like how many on the right wing think of "respecting life" as respecting the presence of lives on the earth. And human ones only, mind you.
For all their religious brouhaha, they just don't grasp the essence of life other than as a physical, taking-up-space instance. They focus on survival... not on how to make human life better, more special.
And they justify what they say by, "if those babies aren't born, there won't be any cure for cancer/Nobel Peace Prize/next JFK."

They too often forget that the "next JFK" is just as lost forever if he becomes incapacitatingly depressed, can't overcome the negativity of his friends and family... or squanders his charisma in drunken frat parties and being a con artist.

[TayTay]

87. I think what is bothering me about it

is more complex than that. I believe that no person is irresplaceable in a democracy. For me, to believe otherwise sort of negates the idea of shared responsibility that democracy itself rests on. I believe that there are many, many, many times in life when we will find that the door that we prefer to walk through is barred and there is no entry that way. That is a fact of life. The democratic dilemma then becomes, what do you do, give up or find another doorway?

This is at the root of what is bothering me. I may not get to do what I want to in this life. That is simply a fact and is the source of my expression, "who died and made me Queen of the Universe anyway." The answer is that no one did. I am fallible. I am also replaceable. It cannot be otherwise in a democratic state. (We do not elect kings, we elect the people's representatives and the people can replace them at will.) My responsibility is to train and prepare for those who come after me. This may mean that I don't get to be the one who gets elected or who gets their name out in front of others. So be it. What matters is the issues and the people. Sometimes that means putting my own goals, ambitions and desires behind that of the greater good. That is the democratic ideal.

I wonder here what the greater good is here? Certainly individual goals are laudable and society exists to support that as well. But, I am having trouble seeing the clear line in this case. Everyone wants Mrs. Edwards to be the rare case who 'makes it' even as we assess the realities of her situation. I simply wonder if the pursuit of the highest office in the world is the right thing. I wonder if it does serve the greater good in this circumstance or if the circumstance has barred this door and it might behoove her to find another. That is, to me, a legitimate inquiry. Sometimes, the hardest thing in life to give up the idea that we, ourselves, are the best agents of change. Sometimes the best agents of change are those who work very hard and also know when to step aside at need and recognize that a particular path may not be for them. (Yes, you keep working, but to what end? What does it mean?)

[cadmium]

83. Really true Tay. Remember

when Bush pointed to a woman holding 3 or 4 jobs as an example of a real American. They miss slavery.

[Island Blue]

81. I understand you concern here Tay,

but I disagree with you for a couple of reasons. First of all, I think Mrs. Edwards feels that her husband’s campaign for president is bigger than her personal health issues. I think SHE feels that he is the best person to lead the county, to (among other things) give other folks the same access to health care that she has. Now whether we agree (that he’s the best person for the job) is really neither here nor there. I get the feeling that she does though. I think her need to continue working is as much about wanting to make things better for others who she knows are not as fortunate as she is.


Secondly, I have unfortunately known quite a folks over the past several years who have been diagnosed with cancer, and don’t know of a single one of them who stopped working or going to school because of their disease (at least as long as they were able to do so.) Very few of these folks continued working because they HAD to, but rather I think because their work gave them something to focus other than their illness. As others have said in this thread and elsewhere, she doesn’t want to be known as “the cancer patient”.


I think that if people want and/or need to stay at home to deal with their illness, then by all means they should be able to do so. I don’t see however, how what Mrs. Edwards is choosing to do, devalues their choice. (Nor do I think their choice was devalued by Sen. Kerry who chose to dive right back into the thick of a presidential race shortly after his surgery for prostate cancer.)


I certainly understand and respect your concerns though. Maybe I'm more of a Type A than I thought I was.

[karynnj]

82. I'm glad I read your response before responding

I agree completely.

In addition, Elizabeth Edwards' "job" is completely under her control. She can define what she does and where she does it. For example, I assume that she could make every media apperance she wants from wherever she wants.

The campaign could make videos of her. The appearances she makes may be fewer, but they will get more coverage.

I assume that the Edwards campaign will go out of their way to consider her needs.

[wisteria]

68. Here is a link for anyone interested in reading more about the type of cancer Elizabeth Edwards has.

http://health.msn.com/centers/breastcancer/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100158943>1=9192


I found it very informative.

I hope she has a long happy life.

[ray of light]

75. excellent biology lesson on kos today

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/23/7211/91161

[MonteLukast]

76. Cells

All it takes is one cell for a metastasis to occur. That's what I've always found creepy about cancer.

But it's empowering to find out the predictability in cancers-- specific genes, specific chemical changes. Back when I was a freshman in college was when I first read about the specific pathway colon cells undertake in the process of becoming cancerous... the first cancer for which a specific pathway of progression was outlined. Know the patterns well, and you stand a better chance of stopping the cancer's progression.

Cancer-specific methylation of the nonexpressed vimentin gene

[wisteria]

79. Thanks. n/t

[rox63]

85. FYI, JRE & EE will be on 60 Minutes tonight talking about this n/t

[JI7]

88. it's hard to think

that she would not be here in the near future. John and Cate having to deal with losing a son and brother who was only 16 and then having to deal with losing a wife and mother who is still young just seems wrong. of course many others have been through this but even then it just seems to unfair.

i really hope she beats this thing. i'm ignorant of the facts concerning cancer. but didn't she get regular check ups ? so why was it not found earlier ?

also, some sites say that cancer patients don't consider themselves cured of cancer until after 5 years and even then not everyone does. yet i remember seeing many posts about how Elizabeth was cured of cancer.

all i know is cancer is a horrible disease and seems to just hit anyone at anytime. we hear about all the things people can do to prevent it but even that is not enough for many.

this brings me back to the lack of support for science and research in this administration.

btw, didn't Betty Ford have breast cancer when her husband was President ? and she is still living today. lets hope Elizabeth is able to do the same.

[beachmom]

89. I watched 60 Minutes last night, and had a few thoughts

First off -- nothing we said in this thread was wrong or callous -- that is according to John Edwards himself -- he said it was perfectly legitimate to make judgments and have questions since he is seeking the highest office in the land. This took a load off my mind -- I thought it might have been wrong to think such thoughts, but he said -- no, it was right to do that. For that, I am more endeared to John Edwards more than I have been before that he would allow (with malice toward none) that people have strong feelings about this one way or the other.

However, what I was alluding to last week stays with me this week -- a PROFOUND difference in parenting philosophy between myself and Elizabeth Edwards. This is not about the Mommy Wars, something I have no interest in engaging in. There are mothers who stay home, mothers who work part time, mothers who work full time, mothers who stay at home but volunteer. All of these women are finding the best way possible for them and their families and I think none of the different options is superior to another. But I do draw a line in the sand -- mothers who make no changes and no adjustments to parenting, and who have BIG CAREERS which require extreme hours and lots of travel. This category I do not understand because they're not part of their kids' daily routine, often not seeing them because their kids are already in bed by the time they get home, or they're not even at home to see them because of FREQUENT travel. In that case, I do not understand why they had kids in the first place, since they're not willing to sacrifice their own ambitions for their kids. Let's not delude ourselves into downplaying what it means to be the spouse of someone running for president, especially when Elizabeth clearly is an asset to the campaign. John Edwards specifically said last night that he wanted Elizabeth ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL. Teresa Heinz Kerry talked last week of being relieved of John not running for "selfish" reasons because it was SO GRUELING, and that maybe if she were 15 years younger she would feel differently. So, admittedly, I have issues with Elizabeth's choices even before the horrible news that her cancer had returned. And now we find out with certainty, that her life will indeed be shortened -- she's not going to live until she's 80. And yet, nothing changes -- it's still business as usual, and for this, I am clearly puzzled. Plain and simple, she and I do not share the same values.

Elizabeth said two things last night that particularly bothered me:

1. She only has two choices -- 1) go home and die or 2) continue her life just like it was yesterday. Wrong. There is a third choice, and that's taking stock of your life, and determining what is REALLY important and possible. Her kids need their mother more than anything else. She can still maintain a good career or activism but a presidential campaign? That is too much.

2. She said you need to teach your kids to have wings, and fend for themselves. Well, when it comes to a 6 year old, that amounts to getting them to do their homework by themselves or do a small task on their own or master a new skill. Having their mother away or forcing them to travel for which they still wouldn't get a lot of time with her is not helping them take wing in flight. It sounded to me like "buck it up" and I found that shocking. Katie Couric was shocked, too (which is a weird phenomenon to be in the same POV as her), and said "but they're baby birds".

There are certain values that everyone holds dear, that are not negotiable, and this is just how I feel and I won't change my mind. I guess I want to take it out of the realm of "judging" someone, and more into the realm of "boy, do we think differently".

[Island Blue]

90. Beachmom, are you opposed

to anyone who has small children running for president, or just JRE (and by default, Elizabeth)?

[TayTay]

91. It might be the ages of the kids here

That struck me today. And it matters what job they are going for because the scrutiny is so intense. It is hard to run for President, especially now in the sped up cycle and with innovations like YouTube recording every breathe you take and every move you make.

No one here wants to say what someone else can or cannot do. However, commenting on the behavior of those who do run is okay. (As Beachmom said, Sen. Edwards invited this and thought it was a normal part of the dialogue.) People make their decisions on whom they going to vote for based on a number of real and on personal judgments. This probably falls into the latter category. (How do they handle themselves under pressure? What thinking went into this decision and what thinking went into deciding what personal and family choices would be made to support this decision?) You can't have it both ways and Sen. Edwards acknowledged that, as Beachmom pointed out. They gave the news conference and publicly said, this campaign continues despite the medical problems. Ahm, they knew this would invite all kinds of questions from well-wishers who want to know what went into the decision. It is going to invite questions from people who wish Elizabeth Edwards well, but disagree or don't understand her decision.

I am still stuck on thinking about the young kids. Sen. Kerry's daughters in the last election, grown, accomplished, strong women, had moments in that campaign when the stress and the accusations and the sheer divisiveness of that race overwhelmed them. (These were grown women, for goodness sakes, who had grown up in a political home and knew some of this stuff as part of their lives.) I have quoted one story from the campaign trail when Alexandria Kerry was accosted on the road by anti-abortion crusaders who screamed at her that her father was a baby-killer. (Ah, yeah, that happened.) She lost it for a while. Again, she is grown woman who had to put up with a lot of awful stuff.

I am just stuck on the kids I guess. I just wonder how long it's going to be before the freeper aligned media sticks a microphone in front of one of them and asks, "How do you feel about the fact that your Mom is going to die?" They will do that, and much worse. (Please don't tell me they won't. They will. These are people who stop at nothing and who respect no ethical boundaries, as we should know by now.) I can understand the nobility and the necessity for the folks who want to go back to work because it keeps them living. But this is not just any job. This is grueling nightmare. I can't get my head around how you protect little kids from that. This is all kinds of unfair, I know that and it is beyond tragic that this had to happen to such a vibrant, warm and intelligent woman. But it did. And I fear what will happen down the road. Life with the press is about ten times more unfair than anything I can think of and I don't know how you make the press suddenly respect boundaries. They won't. And that's just the regular press. The RW press will be worse. I would definitely have a less hard time with this if the kids were 10-15 years older.

[beachmom]

92. Actually, this is nothing personal against the Edwards.

The only way I'm okay with it is if the mother plays a very small roll in the campaign, which I'm not sure is possible anymore these days. And, I realize this is just a problem I have and there will probably be more examples like it. For example, the Obamas have two school age girls -- and Obama's wife is very busy -- she has a full time job and I'm not sure she is campaigning. So the more I see that, the more I'll wince. It's about different values. This doesn't change the fact that Edwards is #2 on my list behind Obama (Gore isn't running so I don't count him yet). I just need to pull back, I think, because I just can't identify with them at all.

Edited to add: I realize my feelings mean I would have also winced seeing John F. Kennedy with small kids in the WH in 1961, so I think you raise a very legitimate point whether I'm just giving the Edwards a hard time. To be honest, I started liking them less when I saw that movie "Political Tourist" (Pelosi film)and saw those poor kids stuck in a trailer with a camera stuck in their face and they were mere preschoolers. So this is not something new with me.

[Island Blue]

93. Ahhh - JFK is exactly who I was thinking about.

Maybe it's not a fair comparison - I was actually thinking more of the uncertainty of life as POTUS, or as a parent in general for that matter. Like Elizabeth said in the interview, none of us are guaranteed another day. (Paraphrasing wildly there.)

I can understand your point about the kids having cameras stuck in their faces, and Tay's point about the abuse that the entire family suffers on the campaign trail. I'm not sure what will happen with the Obama's children as the campaign heats up, but you can bet that it will be difficult for Mrs. Obama to stay out of the limelight completely. Judy Dean tried that, and I don't think it helped his cause.

You guys have given me a lot to think about though. Unfortunately my top two candidates both have young children. Sigh.

[TayTay]

94. It's the added stuff

JFK was in the era when the media didn't go after your family. Today is so much different.

I'm also worried about Sen. Obama and his family. Geez, such young kids. I am mjust a worry-wort, I guess. Sometimes all I can think of is those lovely little girls and Senator Obama's wife having to explain the way criticism works and how they should deal with it when they hear someone wrote something mean about Daddy.

Gawd, if only we didn't have such a poisonous atmosphere right now. Sigh!

[karynnj]

95. In a way though it would be harder in both cases if their kids were

Four years older. I think they both have a 6 year old and an 8 year old. They are young enough that the families may, if they really work at it, control what they see. I can't imagine how (or if) the Edwards will explain the difference in her diagnosis to the little kids.

As to the idea that the kids could be asked toxic questions, I wonder if the way to handle it isn't to make the kids 100% not available to the press. If you NEVER let the press speak to them, you have more control.