Mark Penn can go Dick Cheney himself!!!

[beachmom]

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/hillary_pollster_mark_penn_hil.php

Hillary Pollster Mark Penn: Obama More Likely To Suffer Fate Of John Kerry Or Al Gore
By Greg Sargent - February 11, 2008, 2:52PM
On a conference call with reporters just now, Hillary pollster Mark Penn sought to make the case for her electability by dredging up bad memories of the GOP and right-wing media's successful efforts to redefine Al Gore and John Kerry, arguing that Hillary wouldn't succumb to such tactics.

The "GOP attack machine," Penn suggested, "skewed the perceptions of such distinguished public servants as Al Gore and John Kerry" in a way that left perceptions of them "out of touch with reality."

Penn said that Hillary has "withstood" this process, while Obama would find that his independent support "would evaporate relatively quickly once he faced the Republicans." Penn added that the GOP "is already playing the national security card against Obama."

In addition to a straightforward electability argument, it's worth noting that Penn's appeal is an emotional one, too -- the obvious tactic being that he's raising fears of Kerry and Gore redux. Penn's implicit goal here seems to be to make Democrats worry -- without saying so outright -- that Obama will prove too weak to fight back effectively against the GOP slime machine, just as Kerry and Gore did.

[MBS]

1. my thoughts EXACTLY

Mark Penn is scum.

[Luftmensch067]

2. Odd you should mention Cheney...

Since, as noted, at the end of this excerpt, Penn is very much using the tactics of that very "GOP slime machine" used so heinously by Cheney and Rove and their ilk in 2004 by trying to scare people into voting for his candidate.

Personally, I don't think it's going to work this time.

[fedupinBushcountry]

3. It's not working

and you know it's Dems are showing it in their votes.

[ginnyinWI]

5. like Obama said,

People are smarter than that. I sincerely hope he's right! As long as he continues to expose tactics, it'll be fine.

[karynnj]

4. He did back the candidate who he said was best positioned to win in 2004

........ Joe Leiberman. That should diminish his crediblity. It is also interesting that he infers in this that the RW would need to lie to defeat Obama, as they did with 2 people he admits were genuinely good. The smiling, happy pictures of a grinning John Kerry show that he knows he is doing the right thing. It does make wish this John Kerry - such as focused and brilliant, but exuding the joy and happiness he had in recent clips were seen in 2004 - but it is great seeing him working as hard as he is for a better future. It does mean it was never about him. (Kind of telling that Bill is great campaigning for himself and good at best for others - and Kerry, if anything has been more consistently great for Obama than himself.)

HRC is NOT stronger - she actually has substantialy more baggage. Clinton had the good fortune to run against a President who went from 40% to 33% from the beginning of 1992 to November 1992. People forget who many bumps there were in what should have been the smoothest win since 1980. There were way too many things he had swept under the carpet - and some were Hillary's.

He has to say this as the head to head polls show Obama does far better. He is desperate - so they are back to Clintons are stronger - though I don't recall that Kerry or Gore used false tears over how they were doing in the primaries.

[blm]

6. Gee - why is Hillary UNABLE to get her message out the WHOLE LAST YEAR already

dumbass Penn?

[Inuca]

7. I wonder why there is...

no more of an outcry against this "they attacked me for (fill in the blank) years, and I am still here". Maybe I am biased (well, I am for sure), and maybe I do not have enough information, but to me it simply does not make sense. What does it exactly mean? She implies some kind of victory, and I am not sure what this supposed victory consists in. She is viewed as extremely polarizing, a view that has little to do with her actual politics, I think. Her NY wins do not mean much, given who her opponents were, even the fact that she won big in the republican pockets in the state is not particularly impressive. I am really curious how recent history might be different (maybe not by much, I do not really know...) if Giuliani had not gotten sick and especially had not decided to drop his wife on TV. SO what the hell does it exactly mean that she "withstood" this process?

[beachmom]

8. Good point. She has been elected senator of a blue state,

and Kerry is a senator of a blue state. SHE has proven nothing thus far. Unless we're back to you're electing two for the price of one, which makes me want to go back and talk about Marc Rich some more ....

[karynnj]

9. Most of the time she was attacked, they were in the WH or she was a past first lady

in either case, she had a far better position to respond from. No one can get the media on their own terms that the first couple. In addition, she in particular did benefit from the tradition that you do not go after the first lady. Many First Lady events are sheer PR and even a Laura Bush is seen in an overly positive light. She was attacked by the FR, but in a time when it had not yet taken over much of the cable news networks.

It also ignores that they brought many of the attacks on themselves - as their first response was always to declare it was private, then to lie or tell partial truths and to attack the people involved. They turned nothings to several weeks of nastiness.

As to Giuliani, he was hated in NYC by then for what he did in his job - but had he kept his troubled marriage together it could have been a closer race. She won pretty easily against her weak opponent. Neither she or Obama has run a tough state wide election. Her comment makes no sense though, because if he wins the nomination - he win have won an extremely tough race against her in a race that was stacked to elect her.

[beachmom]

10. In that sense, this primary season has been good for both of them.

Neither of them have had a tough fight .... until now. Whoever wins has shown they are electable and can defeat McCain.

That's why Penn is full of it. Don't talk about it -- do it by winning.

[wisteria]

11. This shows how desperate the Clinton camp has become.

What a cheap shot. Someone needs to ask her how she is more equipped to fight off the RW smears. Is she going to cry?
Her camp is getting sleazy now. Hillary may find herself with no friends once this thing is all over.