Today is a moment of truth. Will "fighting back" work?

[beachmom]

For four years now, I have argued that the Swift Boat Lies would have been difficult to fight, even if Kerry had the money, had come out every day, had better surrogates, etc. There were two parts to the SBVT attack: the first about his service and the second about his protest against the war. I don't think I am stretching it to say the Wright flap for Obama is parallel to phase 2 of the SBVT attacks. Both situations seemed to show the candidates not being Pro-American enough. Both are personal. Both represent a choice where the candidate can repudiate their past (Obama's journey to Christianity under Wright's ministry or Kerry's moral imperative to protest the war and expose the atrocities that had taken place in Vietnam) which although would supposedly please the media, would amount to a dishonorable move. Can you imagine Kerry saying, "oh, it was all a mistake, I shouldn't have said what I said"; similarly, can you imagine Obama condemning his church and minister for which he has gone for 20 years, and quite frankly, found the inspiration to become the leader he is today, talking about hope (The Audacity of Hope comes roughly from one of Wright's sermons)?

Today is the test. Obama has been hitting the media for several days, and today will give a speech at 10:15 AM. Will it work? I don't know. Because if it doesn't, this means the end of his candidacy. He might still get the nomination (unless he collapses in the polls, and Hillary "comes to the rescue" <sarcasm>), but it would mean a loss in the G.E. Today is a chance for Obama to define himself. Kerry talked about how Obama needed to define himself before the Right did (with the inference that Kerry was not able to define HIMSELF before the Right came out with flip flopper and then the later attacks). I have no idea if Kerry is counseling Obama at all; but it does appear that Obama is going in the opposite direction as Kerry did on dealing with an attack (coming out immediately and often over and over again -- with the caveat that we all know Kerry fought back with facts to newspapers and then 3 weeks after the attacks started, he gave a speech, but it was largely ignored by the media and proved ineffective). I may add that the Kerry campaign learned from August '04, and hit back during the fall when SBVT Phase 2 came out, with going after Sinclair and Going Upriver being released.

All of this is, although gut wrenching, an interesting test of some theories Kerry, the pundits, and bloggers have been throwing around since the 2004 loss. We shall see.

[Inuca]

1. I parked my car

and listened to it, at times with tears in my eyes. Late for work as a result, but.... Can we take this to the BO group? I REALLY would like to read your comments, others here as well, of course, on the speech, away from GDP. I think it was a very thoughtful and especially courageous analysis of painfully divisive and controversial issues. How it will affect his candidacy.... I have no idea. But after hearing this it would be even more painful to see him defeated. And, to stay on topic, I am sure that Kerry must be proud of this speech by his "protege".

[beachmom]

3. Yeah, I am having trouble figuring out where to post things.

Some Obama supporters are very critical of the Kerry campaign, and some Kerry supporters don't like Obama. I took a risk, and put it here because we have all suffered from the "He didn't fight back" crap since '04, and I felt like Kerry saying "never again" was related to how Obama has handled this crisis.

I would parallel this Obama speech today to Kerry's Dissent speech in April '06. Both speeches are rooted in what the Founding Fathers envisioned, although Obama highlighted where they went wrong (in allowing slavery to continue).

Any more details on the Obama speech, I'll take to the Obama forum.

[Inuca]

4. I wasn't criticizing you

far from it.... Just making sure there is no misunderstanding :-). Really nice to see you back by the way :hug:.

[politicasista]

15. They still are

critical. i.e. Obama swiftboat thread. (Not suprising though).

On the positive side, I was hanging out at essence.com's blog. And they were talking about the Pastor-gate and a blogger asked where was Kerry, Kennedy, Gore, and others on this issue and saying that Obama had "fair weathered friends" in his camp.

I (yes, me in another name :)) left a comment saying that Kerry has been on TV speaking up on Obama's behalf. And another comment left not long after mine, said that Kerry, Bradley, McCaskill and others have also been on TV defending Obama. I replied and told her thanks for the info.

People are paying attention this time, some quicker than others, but it's nice they take notice of who has O's back.

[beachmom]

16. That thread was very, very mild (Swiftboat thread). It didn't knock Kerry,

just was complimenting Obama. Thick skin, right?

[politicasista]

17. Oops, my bad

As far as the thick skin goes, yep, trying to find some. It's hard sometimes but I slowly trying to make progress. :)

But I did one positive thing today. Spread a little fact at that essence blog, no harm no foul, just a heads up comment and it was received by another that added more.

[TayTay]

24. Sen Kerry has been working on his re-election in Mass

and visiting with people in communities all over the State. In addition to talking about the Senate, legislation pending in the Congress and how horribly, painfully broken this current system is, Sen. Kerry has spoken about Sen. Obama at every stop.

Sen. Kerry did an appearance in Lowell MA this past Sat to talk to 25-30 MA State Convention delegates. He answered questions about his support for Sen. Obama, in addition to other topics, to a group that had 3 Obama supporters in it. He talked about Rev. Wright, he talked about the drama of this campaign and he talked about his own personal belief that Sen. Obama represents a once-in-a-lifetime chance to bring real transformational politics to the fore in America now, not in some undefined tomorrow.

The Senator, in an election year for him, took serious questions from MA Dems who were not supportive of his endorsement. He defended his actions in front of those voters, the activists and precinct captains and GOTV specialists in MA. This endorsement was a risk for him. Sen. Kerry has never flinched from clearly and consistently advocating for Sen. Obama, even when he faced a hostile audience.

Sen. Kerry has been there for Barack Obama. He was there on Jan 10th, he was there when the Obama people asked him to go speak to groups of 30-50 people in pre-caucus meetings. He has traveled on his own to make speeches to small crowds. He has encouraged his supporters and others to participate and advocate for Obama. This effort represents a real risk in an election year. But that is what courageous people do, they take risks because they believe in something.

Sen. Kerry's support has been unwavering. I am sorry it has not been in the news lately.

[beachmom]

25. I want to second that. Too many superdelegates are being described as "statesman"

for sitting on the sidelines, waiting to be told which way the political wind is going to blow. John Kerry is indeed courageous for speaking his mind, and going out on a limb for what he believes. It is too bad that even some of his supporters have not been able to see this. I think statesmen are people who are honest all the time, and John Kerry is one of the best.

[YvonneCa]

27. You said it well...

..."I think statesmen are people who are honest all the time, and John Kerry is one of the best."

I agree completely. And I expected nothing less...it's why I still come here from 'way out in Ca." :7

[MBS]

28. yup, this is the essence of JK--great account

I'm really really proud (a)THAT JK endorsed Obama (b) WHEN he endorsed Obama (c) HOW he endorsed Obama (d) the STYLE and COMMITMENT with which he continues to support and work for Obama's nomination, both publicly and (this account and what I've deduced about what else he's been doing) behind the scenes.

As you said, he's taken risks here. But he simply glows with sense of mission and with doing what he really truly believes in . It's a joy to behold.

[politicasista]

32. No, it's ok. I hope that....

no one thinks I am dissing Kerry for being a surrogate for Obama, or just endorsing Obama and going against TPTB of the DC establishment. That is courage right there, even my DD thinks that was bold of Kerry to do that. :)

I think people are just frustrated over the Wright controversy and the racist (and race card) poo thrown at Obama and feeling like he is just getting kicked and punched in the stomach while others stand and watch. DM (Dear Mom) has been noticing that it's taking a toll on him (he is looking thin as a rail the last week or so :().

I never stopped thinking that Kerry wasn't defending Obama, though I think it's unfortunate that just because dems are not on TV saying something, it's perceived as silence or being fair-weathered, when that is not the case.

You can only do what you can or can only do so much.




















edit for word

[YvonneCa]

2. He hit it out of the ...

...park. It's just what I hoped he would do...tell the truth about our racial divide and make the case for bringing the country together. It's just what we would need from a real President.

I agree with you, beachmom, that it is also a test...will fighting back on the issues work? I believe it is the only way to turn our country around and save it, so we really have no other choice. I think Obama said as much in his speech. It is also interesting how pundits are reacting. I flipped channels to watch, and they seem stunned...it seems they have been so mired in 'politics for the sake of politics' that they are shocked by the challenge Obama has just handed them: Let's discuss issues that are really important to America. :)

I got the sense that they were excited about this speech.

[blm]

5. It was a great and necessary speech - not unlike Kerry's Firefighter Speech. The difference will be

newsmedia coverage and BACKUP from other Democrats.

This coverage is already significantly different. This speech was actually BROADCAST. And the networks are having followup discussions. These same networks refused to do that for Kerry's attack on the sifts and challenge to Bush, because they were in full protection mode for BushInc's presidency - something they no longer NEED to do this goround.

[beachmom]

6. There was timing, too, though. Kerry gave the speech 3 weeks after the

attack happened, while Obama hit back doing interviews within two days, and this speech 5 days later. There was a calculation of the Swifts that it was only tabloid stuff and wouldn't go up the food chain; that answering to the charges would give it more coverage. That calculation proved to be in error, since cable TV covered it extensively (and newspaper readership continues to go down, so less people saw "the truth" with facts fed by the Kerry campaign).

I think Kerry's ultimate rebuttal came in his Dissent speech in 2006, which answered the charges of his protesting the war (which was the root of the group getting vets to agree to lie about his service). Obama knew to do a grand speech in response (can I wonder out loud if he were given advice to do just that). And he wrote it himself, just like Kerry wrote Dissent, because that comes across as more authentic.

[blm]

7. Actually, the big problem timewise then was twofold - McGreevey happened then

and there was nothing breaking through that news storm. And then, the issue of finding out exactly what points the swifts connected to Bush's campaign so Kerry could make that challenge to Bush.

And there was no making a Firefighters Convention opportunity happen any faster. Conventions are booked a year in advance.

Besides, had that speech received the coverage from the networks that THIS one received today we KNOW we wouldn't be hearing about 'swiftboating' at all.

[beachmom]

8. Well, he didn't have to do it at the Firefighters' Convention. He could have given it anywhere.

The point was, he needed to go on TV immediately when the firestorm occurred, and he didn't -- he now says that was a big mistake. He said the campaign miscalculated that the truth was out there, but that only figured in the newspapers.

I think the media would have been more likely to cover it had it been the first week of the attack, because it was the News Story of the day. Three weeks into it, it had begun to be considered "old". Still, they should have covered it more extensively.

[blm]

9. He wasn't guaranteed the broadcast time. The Firefighters Convention WAS

scheduled and expected to receive the broadcast time as it was the first election after 9-11, and where the Firefighters' impact on the campaign SHOULD have been plenty for the presscorps. As Eric Boehlert has written, the corporate media refusing to broadcast the speech and giving it minimal reportage smacked of complicity.

I also think you forget the impact of the McGreevey story that lasted at least a week longer than Spitzer, thanks to homophobia AND the added issue of this guy being a foreigner hired to be an adviser on terrorism.

[beachmom]

10. But also don't forget the Summer Olympics were going on, and YET

the Swifts still broke through. I partially agree with you -- I think the media was terrible during this time. But what I would like to concentrate on here was how Kerry could have done it better, and how those lessons can be used today.

[blm]

11. The 'YET the swifts broke through' wasn't just about a 'terrible' media it was about complicity.

And Dan Rather's admissions in the past year that, indeed, the newsmedia NEEDED to protect Bush for the favorable rulings they expected in his second term, SHOULD FACTOR IN to the reality of the day.

The newsmedia would be carrying this speech by Obama even if he made it a week later - they would not carry Kerry's speech if he made it a week earlier.

[MBS]

12. Also the mood of the country was different in 2004 than 2008

We in this forum may have been ready for change in 2004, but about the half the country was still in thrall of 9/11, and not predisposed to listen to JK's message, or any message that didn't play cravenly to their fears. (Not to mention the fact that a chunk of the DLC/Clintonista types were less than helpful to Kerry's cause. .I need not belabor the details, which are well known to all). . As you and others said so well before, JK was, as ever, prescient: he a bit ahead of the mood of the country. Even with the most flawless strategy, JK was fighting an uphill battle. Honestly, I really truly think we need to remember how WELL he did given all these factors stacked against him. In the end, there's also this: no other Dem candidate in 2004 could have done as well as Kerry in the GE. That's just a fact.

Now the mood has shifted, and finally, FINALLY, there seems to be real consensus for change. That means that voters are now, finally , ready to listen, which also means that the media is also ready to listen. That happy circumstance, along with lessons learned in 2004, -- lessons that Kerry has clearly been sharing -- gives Obama an advantage that Kerry never had. Obama is right in step with the current mood of the country, and, in addition to his own talent and his (mostly) well-run campaign, that is why he -- all fingers crossed-- seems poised to win the nomination and the GE.

[beachmom]

13. I just wanted to add one thing, BLM. During that time I only watched Jim Lehrer,

and swore off cable. The Jim Lehrer News Hour DID show Kerry's firefighter speech, and showed exactly one segment with John O'Neil vs. Tom Oliphant. I think that was pretty fair coverage, but it was PBS (corporate, government and viewer sponsored).

The truth is we will never know how much the media would have covered Kerry had he done things differently. His money argument still holds: had he not had his nomination so early, he could have spent the money on a blitz of ads counteracting the lies.

[YvonneCa]

14. Cable wouldn't have covered it...

...no matter what or when. They were hopeless in 2004. I also watch PBS, and they are better...but, sadly, not enough people watch the Newshour.

I know Kerry has accepted his share of the responsibility and I commend him for that. But cable TV has not...and they need to.

[Mass]

18. We'll see. It is a great speech, but I am not sure how many people it reached and

cable TV is still talking about Wright. The real issue is to know how long before they stop. Only time will tell.

[ray of light]

19. I don't know...

It's getting kind of hard to read, lurk, or to respond to things about Kerry, Obama, and the Clintons.

I don't wish to offend anybody.

But I have to say that I don't think Obama' situation today is remotely similar to Kerry's in 04. For one...Obama grew up as a black/white person in a white/black family. He's lived his life being attacked for his race or even being attacked for not being black enough. When he gave his speech at the DNC in 2004, he even spoke about the US being the UNITED STATES and he tried to pull color out of the equation.

He's known what he is fighting and how to fight it from the time he first learned to walk, talk, and observe the world around him. It's what has made him who he is.

Obama has had to fight for race equality from the time he entered public office. This was nothing new to him and he wasn't blindsided by the attack.

Now take Kerry on the other hand. Kerry was fighting too. But he was also fighting on many different fronts. He was fighting a corrupt media that wouldn't let him or his words get near the people. So he took his words and his message onto the road. He had a ground swell of support going that he was able to achieve without receiving any positive media airtime and without receiving DNC support. The swifties had blindsided Kerry. Afterall, JK has spent the last 20 years supporting better Veterans care and benefits from the day he took office. When the swifties came out, he was on the road, getting woken up every 3 hours to shake hands and meet/greet people. Sorry JRE supporters, but JRE was not on the road full-time and nonstop like the Kerry's were, and yet Edwards didn't come out and stop their lies. So in a sense, he was betrayed by his own group(s): the veterans and the Democratic party!

Now the meme of fighting or not fighting and that this is Obama fighting is just not true. Obama isn't FIGHTING right now. He's trying to HEAL divides with loving words. He was preaching an end to racism. He was supporting the family and friends who have stood by you--even when he disagrees with them--but he was doing it in a loving and caring way. He was talking about loyalty. He was talking about love. He was talking about everything good we want to see in this world.

That's not fighting. That's SHOWING people the truth: racism is a problem in this country. And all of us know someone who is a racist even if we love that person we can not throw them out in the trash.

But as far as the swifties go...and the situation in o4 as it compares to now...it's like comparing apples and oranges. And I am really feeling more sure that Lakoff's "Don't talk like an elephant" is more and more important when repeating the crap that the right wing has smeared about Kerry.

You know...The media and the DNC are giving Obama a better chance and better structural support than they gave Kerry. even while Hillary divides the party, the media is EXCITED to have more viewers and to play up the competition. They never gave Kerry 1/2 the time even from day one.

It boils down to bad timing for JK and tough luck too. Because the constant comparisons to 04 are meaningless when NOTHING is the same as in 04. It's why it's apples and oranges.

I'm sorry if I have offended anyone. I think I'm going to disappear until after the primary.

[wisteria]

21. I love what you are saying and I agree with you. How can we compare 04 and 08?

The issues have crystallized, the fear factor has dissipated, the public has now been convinced the war was mismanaged and there were no weapons of mass destruction.. We have experienced Katrina and America has finally seen President Bush for the incompetent he is. Rove is no longer in the political drivers seat and Bush is not running this time around. The media has been kinder to the Democrats now that we have regained power and may get even stronger. And blogs and online videos have matured and gained recognition and respect. Also, there is the huge money gap this time around between the Republicans and the Democrats. Compare this to what Senator Kerry faced in 2004. Fear, fear and more fear. Less money to work with,a President that was still well thought of, a war many people believed was still necessary and a media who paid very little attention to Senator Kerry until they actually had to cover the general election. And, I could go on and on listing the differences between 2004 and 2008. I don't care how many times people try to spin the two election years, no one will ever convince me that Senator Kerry didn't struggle and work extremely hard to accomplish what he did in the primaries and the general election. And, that Obama's struggle has been just as hard.

[MBS]

23. and this is also a great PS

As far as I'm concerned, between the two of you, you've capsulized the situation nicely!

[MBS]

22. very nice summary of the issues, thanks n/t

[ginnyinWI]

26. I don't see any conflict between admiring both men

I don't think we can compare 2004 with 2008 any more than we could compare 2000 with 2004. The political landscape changes so much, not to mention the media. YouTube has been a huge change, just for starters.

Kerry was a great candidate and so is Obama. Obama's successes don't mean Kerry was a failure. Things just are what they are; they play the cards they are dealt, try their hardest, get lucky breaks sometimes, tough breaks sometimes. I still believe Kerry would have won if it hadn't been for rigged vote counts. We can only hope and pray that something has improved on that front this time! Or maybe Obama can get a fraud-proof majority this time.

"Fighting" can be defined lots of ways, I guess. HRC is fighting by political plays, smearing, trying to game the system (MI and FL). Obama is fighting by using his ability to talk to both sides, find practical solutions and communicate them well.

Please keep blogging--I like reading your stuff! :)

[karynnj]

33. Incredibly thoughtful description

2004 was a time where no Democrat would have been given a chance. That is why HRC didn't run. I really think no on ecould have come as close as Kerry did - under the circumstances. What is sad is that you are totally right - though many of us blame the media, had the Democratic party and the veterans he had helped for decades stood strongly behind him - he would have pulled off an amazing victory.

[wisteria]

20. I think he has struck a cord with people willing to listen and those using this as an opportunity

to begin a real dialog on our differences and similarities. I believe there are many people in the United States who want to have open and honest discussions on the issue of Race and gender differences. We can not grow as a nation unless we begin to address the things that divide us and hold us back. And, Senator Obama is uniquely qualified to address the matter of racism. He can claim both the Black and White perspective on it.
I especially liked his mentioning his Grandmother, it was both a personal story and a universal one.

[beachmom]

29. Okay, this diary kind of pissed me off:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/19/103238/024/152/479882

You know, fighting smears is not a one week job. It needs to be done every day, every week, and every month in a campaign. And the celebration of this week is a bit premature. I wanted to discuss the ins and outs here (which some didn't want to), but the way the Obama supporters are portraying this is just not how I would portray it. I would say, "Good start" but to declare victory is unbelievably boneheaded. I have put many angry comments in the diary with links that people here have put together. My main concern is about a sustainable defense over time, not just one week.

[wisteria]

30. I wasn't crazy about that diary either. If they think Obama's several days of bad press

and Republican attacks is swiftboating they are going to be totally stunned once the general election starts. I do not consider what Obama has gone through this past week as swiftboating.

[beachmom]

31. Agreed, and there was some very good comments in the thread

saying the same thing. After all, what Wright said was fact; the smear aspect of it was to pin Wright's words on Obama, when frankly, all the kooky ministers the Republicans have courted for years weren't given the same treatment. I did think there were parallels as far as it being a blanket wall to wall RW attack on Obama, but in the end, nobody specifically "lied", they just impugned his character using somebody else's words.

I did get some positive responses, as well as some pretty nasty ones. I think overall, it is a good discussion to have, as long as people are honest and realistic about it.