A must read post by Andrew Sullivan on The Big Lie & McTruthyism

[beachmom]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/04/mctruthyism.html#more

All of this relevant to "swiftboating", so I think any thoughts on this should be absorbed by all of us as we go forward in defending against lies:

In McTruthyism, you have to know the actual truth about someone and nonetheless eager to smear that person with a lie. It gets truthy when you frame the lie as a question or a suspicion or the revelation of a secret. So the McTruthy lie will come in a factually irrefutable form: "The Mask Slips." "As far as I know." "Hmmmm." The classic formulation comes from - surprise! - South Carolina:

"Obama, Osama, hmm, are they brothers?"

They're just asking. They're not saying. Like Stephanopoulos and Gibson, or Rove or Clinton, they have no evidence for their accusations; they just don't know for sure. Is Obama really a patriot? Is he really a Christian? And since their target is already defined as a potential fraud, the last person to believe is Obama himself. In fact, his denials only help underscore the shifty, devious deception of his candidacy. And the job of politics and journalism is to ask questions, isn't it? Are you actually a communist? Do you secretly hate your country? Do you privately support terrorism? Is your Christianity a front for Marxism? Do you find the Pledge of Allegiance repellent? Do you respect the flag?

It's all about the truth, after all. Or the "truth". Or power. And as this campaign proceeds, you can see how many in the Washington elite care about each.

The insidiousness of the 2004 campaign is even worse this time. Something I never thought could be imaginable. Add in the race baiting politics and it's even uglier. We (all Democrats) need to formulate a way to defeat this. Or at least contain it so that it doesn't prevent Obama from winning. Problem is, if he wins the presidency, the evil core of the lies will still be with us, and at least 30 - 40% of the populace will believe the lies, and quite literally think a terrorist in disguise is occupying the WH. I hope and pray that the Secret Service is very aware of all of this.

[MBS]

1. I would guess that's why he got Secret Service protection so early in the

process.
MyTruthyism is indeed the bleak landscape in which we have operated, especially the last 8 years. It pains me to think how well this describes what was done to JK :"you have to know the actual truth about someone and nonetheless eager to smear that person with a lie. It gets truthy when you frame the lie as a question or a suspicion or the revelation of a secret." Oh, yeah. And look at the consequences of their lies. We have to conquer these folks this time, for the sake of what's left of our country. The moral tragedy of HRC is the way that she's bought into the McTruthy approach to advance her campaign.

[Inuca]

2. "The moral tragedy of HRC"

very well put.

PS: this morning I am really scared of what may lie around the corner AND down the line later on. Thinking about McThruthyism and its implications did not help :-(.

[beachmom]

3. Actually, the demographic exit polls comforted me.

Obama got 40% of the white vote
Obama got 45% of the white male vote

The white female vote was a vote FOR Hillary overall. Not against Obama.

Obama improved with older voters as well. The Wright/bittergate attacks did not work.

PA was always a state ready made for Clinton. She started out 19 points ahead, and only won by 10 or less (um, the official PA state website gives decimal points. The media once again misleads by showing a 10 point lead when it is not).

The NYT completely lambasted her, and called for supers to get involved. Hillary has no chance in winning, but she has two allies: the media and the GOP. Dems need to understand those folks are no friends of ours, and end this thing. IF Obama can pull out a win in Indiana, then he has surprised, and will win. Even if he loses IN narrowly, Clinton has NO CHANCE to catch up in the pledged delegate count.

Yesterday was another nail in her coffin.

[Inuca]

4. Yes, they did look better than in OH

still... I do not know if it counts as demographics, but the exit poll saying that barely above 50% of C voters would vote for Obama was scary (and will most likely be used in some disgusting way as a talking point, maybe not to the public but certainly to the SDs). I know that we all say many stupid things in "the heat of battle", but still...

The NYT editorial was incredibly strong and to the point. I wonder if they can or are willing to go the extra (big) step and withdraw their endorsement. That's what the editorial basically amounted to in my opinion.

And I 100% agree that she has NO CHANCE to catch up in the delegate count, and a .00001% chance to catch up in popular vote (when COUNTING FL!), Chuck Todd had a pretty crushing analysis on that, saying basically that counting the 200,000 from PA AND the 300,000 from FL, she still needs to get 200,000 somewhere, which is practically impossible, especially since the PS gain will most likely be mostly, if not completely, nullified in two weeks (he assumed a 10% win in NC and I think a 5% loss in IN, both worst-case analysis numbers from O's perspective). I love Todd's no non-sense analyses.

And yes, another nail in her coffin, but there are other potential coffins out there, and she has nails, pointed and poisonous nails of her own.

[beachmom]

5. Do you have a link on that 50% of Hillary voters? I thought it was 72%,

and that it was 80% of Obama voters. But maybe the exit polls have been adjusted.

[Inuca]

6. Are we talking about the same thing?

I was referring to the question asking supporters what will they do if thir candidate does not get the nomination. Saw it last night on MSNBC, I do not have the link but it's probably somewhere on their site. What I remember (and I am 95% sure I remember correctly, I saw it at least twice, and I was quite stunned) was that 53% of C supporters said that they would vote for O, 25% for McC, and 18% that they will stay at home (yes, I know, my numbers do not add up to 100 but I still think I remember correctly :-)).

[beachmom]

7. I think maybe I saw CNN numbers, and it was 72% of Hillary voters

WOULD vote for Obama, and 80% of Obama voters would vote for Hillary. I hope what I think I heard was more accurate.

If the MSNBC numbers are more accurate, well, that is bad. Of course, I just saw that Obama is 300 delegates away from the magic number of 2024. THAT solves it, and then we can just seat FL and MI.

[Inuca]

8. I wish we can get (soon!) to the point

where he can just concede FL, the whole damn thing, delegates, popular votes, oranges, whatever, because it will just NOT MATTER. After IN and NC hopefully they should be able to do that. At which point the C camp may have (operational word = MAY) to just shut up about MI. The way they have the chutzpah to include MI in their "counts" is beyond the pale. Am I just daydreaming (about O just saying "OK, we give you FL, enjoy it!" I mean)?

[beachmom]

9. If he gets to 2024, then MI can be seated without controversey.

The thing is, he needs to get to the point where he is close enough to 2024, where the Supers can just jump in. He will do that after NC and IN (even if he lost IN).

[MonteLukast]

10. Tragedy indeed.

Because she felt she had to use McTruthyism in order to politically survive. How many of us hear the message that we won't survive if we stick to the moral high ground? Even in everyday corporate jobs.

[ray of light]

11. The insidiousness of the 2004 campaign ....

Absolutely right!

The FRAUD committed against John Kerry by the Swiftboat Veterans (for Bush not for truth) and perpetrated by the MEDIA'S FREE AIRTIME of those evil people were using the "McTruthyism-question".

"Did John Kerry really serve honorably in Veitnam...did he deserve his metals? Did John Kerry really enter Cambodia?"

*See how the smear is disguised as a question--even though the origination is completely false?*

The "art of false allegations said under the guise of a question where the candidate (John Kerry) had NO WAY to DEFEND HIMSELF BECAUSE HE IS THEIR TARGET AND IS ALREADY DEFINED AS A POTENTIAL FRAUD...thus,JK had to rely on surrogates to defend his honor..." People like his fellow swiftboat soldiers who said over and over again that the SBLFBush were lying. Andlike the writer in Chicago who swore he'd never talk about it, but did due to the smear job against JK.

They questioned his medals and they questioned his honorable discharge. They questioned why he didn't release his military record when it was right on the website! The art of the question and Mctruthiness is exactly what they did use. And I received an email about Obama about "Is Michelle Obama a black racist...?" It claimed that it wasn't found on snopes (not true--I checked) and it used her college thesis to claim "IF THIS IS TRUE, THIS IS SCARY" in bold caps.

McTruthyness....