OMG!! WWII vets don't flipping put up with swiftboating!! This has made my day!

[beachmom]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/29/12757/9330/971/524828

You know it's silly season when Republican wingnuts start questioning the service of veterans, and start arguing that some Nazi concentration camps weren't all that bad (since the deaths were merely in the tens of thousands).

And now it's become even funnier. This idiot right winger Steve Gilbert, hot on the trail of the "truth" regarding Obama's great uncle's service liberating Buchenwald, wrote to WWII vet Raymond Kitchell and his son Mark Kitchell, who together run a site dedicated to the 89th Infantry.

What has ensued is a total pwning and smack-down the likes of which only a WWII vet can deliver.

Here was Gilbert's letter:

—– Original Message —–
From: Steve Gilbert
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:14 AM
Subject: Any Record Of Charles W Payne?

Mr. Kitchell,

As you may have heard by now, Barack Obama has claimed that his great uncle Charlie Payne was a member of the 89th Div that liberated Buchenwald.

According to records his full name is either Charles W Payne or Charles T Payne (most likely the former), and he was born in 1924 — and he is still alive today.

He most likely was from Kansas at the time of enlistment.

Do you have any record of this gentleman?

Thank you,

Steve Gilbert
sweetness-light.com

PS - If you go to my website, you will see that I was probably the first to note the error in Mr. Obama’s first claims about his “uncle.”

The response by WWII vet Raymond Kitchell:

Please crawl back under the rock you came out from.

Good day

Raymond Kitchell, veteran 89th Inf Div

BOOM!!! Man, don't piss off WWII vets, I guess. But this right winger idiot wouldn't shut up, and gets slammed again:

To: Steve Gilbert
Subject: Re: Any Record Of Charles W Payne?

I don’t claim to represent anyone. You are the one who came to my son and I asking for information.

Please spend ample time chasing down the lies fed to you by chickenhawks Bush & Co. Like 90% of this administration, they don’t have the foggiest idea what we went through or what we saw at Ohrdruf.

The Wingers still give them trouble, and say they have the politics of "Cindy Sheehan". Then the full smackdown from Kitchell:

Concerning the service of Mr. Charles Payne: C.T. Payne was a soldier in the 89th Infantry Division. He served in the 355th Infantry Regiment, Company K. The 355th Infantry Regiment was the unit to liberate Ohrdruf. Mr. Payne was there.

For those who seek to minimize the horrors of Ohrdruf since it was a 'work' camp and not a 'death' camp, we have but one word: shame. Ironically, this argument has been made to us time and time again by various Holocaust-deniers and other pro-Nazi groups. We will let the testimony of survivors and veterans speak for themselves.

"It has been recorded that in Ordruf itself the last days were a slaughterhouse. We were shot at, beaten and molested. At every turn went on the destruction of the remaining inmates. Indiscriminant criminal behavior (like the murderers of Oklahoma City some days ago). Some days before the first Americans appeared at the gates of Ordruf, the last retreating Nazi guards managed to execute with hand pistols, literally emptying their last bullets on whomever they encountered leaving them bleeding to death as testified by an American of the 37th Tank Battalion Medical section, 10 a.m. April 4, 1945.

Today I'm privileged thanks to G-d and you gallant fighting men. I'm here to reminisce, and reflect, and experience instant recollections of those moments. Those horrible scenes and that special instance when an Allied soldier outstretched his arm to help me up became my re-entrance, my being re-invited into humanity and restoring my inalienable right to a dignified existence as a human being and as a Jew. Something, which was denied me from September 1939 to the day of liberation in 1945. I had no right to live and survived, out of 80 members of my family, the infernal ordeal of Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Ordruf, and its satellite camp Crawinkle and finally Theresinstadt Ghetto-Concentration Camp."

Rabbi Murray Kohn

Wow. Holocaust deniers. That actually sounds a lot like the Far Right in this country as far as I am concerned.

[beachmom]

1. Venturing out of Kerry land

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6172416

[MonteLukast]

2. OMG. Scary.

{W}hen Republican wingnuts start questioning the service of veterans, and start arguing that some Nazi concentration camps weren't all that bad.

Here's Steve Gilbert, who apparently doesn't like that some countries have laws against denying the Holocaust.

The more of their underbellies the righties accidentally show, the uglier it gets.

:scared:

[beachmom]

3. Actually, no he doesn't like Irving or Holocaust deniers.

I will be fairer to Gilbert than he ever will be to a Democrat, but this has to do with free speech. In Germany and Austria, and a few other countries, denying the Holocaust or doing or saying certain pro-Nazi things is strictly against the law and will land you in jail. This is a tough issue, because on one hand, we Americans view free speech -- even offensive speech that we are vehemently opposed to -- as protected under the first amendment. The laws in Germany and Austria would be promptly thrown out immediately in America as a violation of the first amendment. HOWEVER, the argument goes that given the unique situation in Germany and Austria, of their unprecedented horrible history, they feel the law is justified. To me it is unthinkable that just for saying something people don't like you can be thrown in jail. I think a better tact (which is more difficult) is to allow the speech legally, but have the entire country ostracize people who spew such nonsense. In a sense that has already happened in Germany, when neo-Nazis were causing significant problems, a million people took to the streets to demonstrate against them. That for me is a better way to deal with the dead end haters (who unfortunately reside in East Germany mostly).

I think the point Ketchell was making was that the Right were so off base in their attacks, that they were actually using the same arguments as Holocaust deniers. He wasn't saying they WERE Holocaust deniers, but that their blind hyper partisanship was putting them on shaky moral ground.

Incidentally, my copy and pasting of that diary (just so nobody thinks I am taking credit for the post) here on DU is the #1 Greatest Thread, now showing on the Home page. This story has really resonated. On DailyKos, Kos himself recommended that diary, something he rarely, rarely does (the only other time I know of was when that Iraq vet wrote the "Phony Soldiers" diary).