Debate watching thread for Friday, Sept 26th

[TayTay]

Just a thread to put down thoughts on tonight's debate.

Have fun.

[Luftmensch067]

1. Nice to see JK's already down there! NECN video!

http://www.necn.com/Boston/Politics/Kerry-McCain-slowed-negotiations/1222465871.html

[beachmom]

2. I'm actually going to a bar this evening to watch with a bunch

of fellow Georgia Democrats, and have a pint or two. I've never viewed a political event this way, so it should be fun. But I'll try to get to this thread when I get back, and weigh in on the debate. My pre-debate take:

Obama is an okay debater but not that great. However, what he needs to accomplish is less than McCain does. Obama needs to be presidential, have a command of the issues, show his trademark temperament, and make sure McCain doesn't make him make a gaffe or not sound as strong. McCain, OTOH, has to be aggressive and make a compelling case AGAINST Obama, without looking too old or mad. He also has to contrast himself with Bush while not pissing off the GOP base. I have never seen McCain debate before, but I heard he is good with the zingers, but overall not as good as some of the others in the Republican primary debates.

[YvonneCa]

3. Pre-emptive debate thoughts...

... :) posted yesterday during the debate dust-up:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

McCain Debate FLIP FLOP
It IS possible to both believe there is an economic crisis AND think the crisis is being used for political reasons.

This is a disgusting pattern by John McCain. First, Gustav during the RNC and now the economic crisis. McCain has nothing ...no good record...to run on. He uses these crises as a way of avoiding events where he has no chance to really compete. Like the convention, like a debate.

Gustav: He saw Obama's convention and knew he couldn't compete. So he said he needed to postpone it for unity (Country First), during a hurricane crisis. He really knew his convention was not going to be able to compete...either with numbers of people or in content. So he canceled day one, and then 'scaled down' the celebration.

Georgia/Russia: "We're all Georgians now." Really? He was ready to take advantage of the crisis...show he was a leader. And then the Georgians requested Joe Biden come over. :7

Now, the economic crisis: He's not ready to debate. Did you hear Joe Biden on foreign policy this morning? The issues he raised about McCain will ALL be raised in the Friday debate (if it happens). So what does McCain do...suspends his campaign and cancels the debate. Why? He says it's because of unity in a time of crisis (Country First). He says he and Obama need to come together. BALONEY! He's USING this crisis for political reasons.

I'm not buying. ABSOLUTELY not.

And here's what some don't understand. When we Democrats say McCain is 4 more years of Bush, this is why...the disgusting tactics of using crises for political gain. Bush did it with 9/11 and Iraq. Shameful.

McCain is following the same pattern...Gustav, Georgia, and the economic meltdown.

We are in REAL TROUBLE if the American people fall for this AGAIN.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Looking forward to the debate.
:hi:

[fedupinBushcountry]

4. I'm here

Just got back from volunteering at the Obama office here, they were having a debate party there, but wanted to watch it with youse guys. :-)

[ray of light]

5. McCain and his earmarks... That's so amazing that he has the chutzvah to

do that ploy given Palin's cheerleading over her earmarks.

I liked Obama's response though. Earmarks are a small part of the budget.

I pray the question about OPEN GOVERNMENT and Executive power (equal branches of government) comes up.

[YvonneCa]

6. Hatchet vs. scalpel...

...VERY, very good! :)

[ray of light]

9. good line!

[Luftmensch067]

7. The one thing you have to know about John McCain

The one single thing is that he will stoop to any lie. Especially about his record. No shame, none.

[YvonneCa]

8. In the Iraq discussion...

...I think McCain was attacking his patriotism when he told the story of visiting the troops. They said "Let us win." That gets to the Vietnam era argument of we lost because we didn't support all out force in that war.

They also said "We don't want to send our kids here." As if Obama is for that. Thats how it is heard in red states who believe Bush's line, "Better fight them there than here."

Obama either ignored it or didn't know he was connecting to those in his base who question Obama's patriotism. JMO.

[YvonneCa]

10. It's continuing. He's stuck in...

...the VietNam era. I think it's really sad.

[ray of light]

11. why is McCain laughing and smirking? It's gross.

[ray of light]

12. McCain is lying and lying and lying and Obama barely can reply without smaking down lies!

[ray of light]

13. McCain "HOT" over the Kissinger dig. Not very coherant, imo.

[YvonneCa]

14. He's being so disrespectful to Obama. And it that...

...'making fun of' mocking attitude and saying he is naive or must not understand something. He's talking to him like he's debating a high school kid...and he's the adult and knows better. He's HORRIBLE. If you win a debate based on acting childish...then he'll win.

[Luftmensch067]

15. He's been coached by Lieberman

In my opinion!

[ray of light]

16. mcCain x talking and trying to talk over obama. totally interrupts him.

Obama is polite and waits his turn.

[ladym55]

20. I felt that it was so that he wouldn't blow his stack

He was really angry and it was visible through large parts of the debate.

[ray of light]

17. I know this is petty, but...why does McCain constantly blink his eyes while he's talking but while

Obama's talking his eyes are still.

[ray of light]

18. McCain putting on his "dramatic" voice. Obama is still being nice to him.

Ok. well. I'm thinking Obama is being too nice to him.

[YvonneCa]

19. McCain: "And I can see Iraq from my...

...house!" He was that bad.

All he did was attack, attack, attack Obama on experience and tout his own. Over and over.

And Obama just kept laying out his proposals for policy and giving the basis for it.

I just about died when McCain said we had had eight years of 'stubbornness' and that we didn't want to continue that with Obama. Obama even smiled on that one. Unbelievable.

[beachmom]

21. Obama did very well. I think it was a draw, although potentially

there was an aspect to the debate that could be devastating to McCain: the fact that he was such a contemptuous sneering jerk. I found him utterly unlikeable, and disrespectful. It is one thing to disagree; quite another to behave like such a jerk. Thing is, this is supposedly McCain's strong suit: foreign policy. And he did not win this debate. We all know debating is not Obama's strongsuit compared to other things in the campaign he does well. I think Obama exceeded expectations, and McCain either only met or was slightly below expectations.

The debate was not a game changer.

[JI7]

22. if Obama had behaved as McCain did the media would be all over that

as they were with the Gore sighing.

but Obama did great. i can't believe some people think getting nasty with McCain would help. the McCain camp is looking for that. a black man getting nasty with an old white guy who was POW is not going to work. i think OBama had to be a bit more careful than Kerry and Gore did with Bush because of people's prejudices.

at best McCain might have tied and that was only in the part concerning foreign policy . i have to wonder how McCain would have done if the debate had continued discussing the economy. he was horrible in that part. and next debate is supposed to focus on exactly that issue.

overall OBama came off as Presidential while McCain came off as weak and tired.

[YvonneCa]

24. Great comments...

...J17.:hi:

[YvonneCa]

23. I agree with everything you've said except the part...

...about it not being a game changer. I think it could be...if only because of the 'sneering jerk' aspect you mentioned.

After a week where McCain was already behaving like an erratic child and a candidate who cared less about his country, than his politics (the DC escapade). The cumulative effect is that this is just not a very likable guy.

You all know how I hate choosing a candidate by their likability rather than their intelligence...but it seems that out there in the real world, likability counts.

[Inuca]

28. Agree

Mostly a draw content-wise, but mostly bad for McCain in terms of image. I watched some Morning Joe and I agree with the point that the insufferable Jow and Mika kept hammering on, the fact that McCain simply refused or was unable to LOOK at Obama. It was really striking! Especially after the rather awkward moments at the beginning when Lehrer was trying his best to force them to engage in an actual dialogue. I think that O showed remarkable (but not surprising) poise and self-control as he kept adressing McCain directly and looking at him, while all he was offered was McC' not exactly lovely profile.

[politicasista]

25. Obama did very well. McCain came across as insulting

especially with the "What Senator Obama doesn't understand..." line. He was trying plant that line into voters minds and make Obama out to be some ambitious, clueless, inexperienced black politician. DM (Dear Mom) thought it was racist. DD (Dear Dad) thought he exaggerated Uncle Ted's condition (glad he is ok :) by sounding like it was really, really serious.

Obama did very well and held his own. He came across as calm and presidential, while McCain came across as an erratic old fart who wouldn't shut up.











edit for word

[JI7]

26. after picking that idiot Palin for VP how can he attack Obama

on not being experienced or not understanding. has he seen his own vp running mate's interviews ??????

i really hope someone asks McCain directly about that.

[Inuca]

27. Absolutely

the VP debate will be painfully fascinating to watch. I liked what Biden said in one of the interviews last night, I think the one with Keith O. I was half asleep so I do not remember exactly, but something like he will be discussing the issues rather than have a dialogue with Palin. Put more diplomatically, but that was the idea I think. Anybody has seen this and remembers it better than I do? IMHO it is the right approach. I do not see how he can engage in anything resembling a real dialogue when the woman is barely coherent. And I really mean this, no hyperbole. I don't mean she is an actual idiot (well... depends on the definition), but she is definitely not smart, and she is painfully ignorant. Not to mention that kind of cheerleader-like cuteness and superficiality that has always got on my nerves. And one last comment about the coming VP debate: I think that the McCain camp gave Biden a very nice present with the change in format they insisted on (less direct interaction). My main concern is that at some point Biden will just not be able to hold it in any longer and will burst out laughing :-)!

[JI7]

29. some pics of Kerry at the debate

the ones where he is alone and talking on the phone are after the debate. i wonder why they have so many of those.









this one is before the debate started. must have been tired, the audience looks like they have been waiting for a while also

[YvonneCa]

30. That would have been right about the time...

...the spin that 'McCain won' was all over the cable channels. Immediately after the debate, Buchanan and others were making McCain out to be the winner. It only became 'a draw' and 'Obama wins' after an hour or so. By the time Biden was on Countdown...polls were coming in in Obama's favor, big time.

Maybe Jk was talking to Obama??? ;) PURE speculation! :7

[JI7]

31. i wonder who else was at the debate

besides Obama family members and state Democrats.

i can see why JK was there considering how Kerry does in debates and Kerry's own history with McCain. i'm sure Kerry had some advice for Obama in this area. remember JK had to control McCain during the Vietnam hearings.

btw, there is an article in GD about how Obama made McCain look bad (or rather McCain made himself look bad) at that white house meeting on the financial package. it really helps explain why McCain couldn't even look at Obama. it seems like Obama took the lead for Democrats and asked McCain for his position and McCain didn't know what to say making McCain look bad.