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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 10:48 PM
Original message
Geez, DKos had two good things to ponder tonight
Seriously. One is a post that lists what Simon Rosenberg had to say about the Rethugs and how totally and utterly screwed they are right now. (Seriously. We see so much Dem bashing on DU that it's nice once in a while to have a reality check and that the Rethugs are in serious trouble.) Read this and smile:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/2/20/16142/4177

Also, DKos and Atrios are completely, 100%, totally right about this:

Atrios is right. If people are tearing each other up over an Ohio senate primary in which two great candidates were running, the 2008 presidential primary online battle is going to get real ugly. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/2/20/13739/0175 and http://atrios.blogspot.com/2006_02_19_atrios_archive.html#114045337747833958

I hope the Dems hold it together through 2006. 2008 is going to be an all-out war that will make us wish it was the nice, sensible 2003/4 race again. IT's going to be a brutal, brutal primary. Sigh! and Sigh! again.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. I agree. IMO,
Bush and the Republicans are in trouble, and Hackett is a distraction and a whiner. I posting Bush/Repub bad news as fast as I can:

Why the President's Defense of Executive Power to Wiretap Without Warrants Can't Succeed in the Strict Constructionist Court He Wants
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2470978&mesg_id=2470978

From above thread:
Unclaimed Territory - by Glenn Greenwald
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2470978&mesg_id=2471170

The polls are not asking about illegal domestic spying.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2469841&mesg_id=2469841

Republican Congressman bombarded with spying questions from constituents
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2470016&mesg_id=2470016

The overlooked security implications of the Cunningham scandal
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2471898&mesg_id=2471898

Stem-cell research splits US Republicans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2469339&mesg_id=2469339

Steele Campaign Seen in Disarray
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2469373&mesg_id=2469373

In Montana, a test case for control of the Senate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2469348&mesg_id=2469348

Bush is spying on Americans: opponents and activist groups. The law can't be changed to make that legal. (lots of news updates)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2461323&mesg_id=2461323

Blog hints at Abramoff, Young link (R-Alaska exposed by a blogger?)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2470340&mesg_id=2470340

Cheney Says He Can't Discuss CIA Leak Case
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2462786&mesg_id=2462786

All the reports add up to a Bush administration in crisis
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2449493&mesg_id=2449493
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. I have become a consistent reader of Glenn Greenwald's site
He's really good--knowledgeable and a good writer. He doesn't just fire off opinions, but goes into detail and explains his case at length. Well he is a lawyer, after all.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. And yet
We aren't out there, trouncing them with a compelling platform, or an uncompelling platform, or any kind of platform at all. They are falling all over themselves, and yet we keep losing on issue after issue. That's why there's all this fighting. If we had a party that was winning on some good Dem legislation, the fighting would stop in an instant.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
3. Another thing to think about
Edited on Tue Feb-21-06 08:02 AM by ProSense
Pederson in Arizona: the story about his son just hit the AP. A Repub is making a huge stink about this. The Dems better get together and fight with conviction. And enough about Hackett so that Ohio doesn't become a loss over this.


Please see my other post here and kick a couple of the threads. Sorry for hijacking your thread TayTay.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Maybe Reid and Shumer, the party "leaders",
Edited on Tue Feb-21-06 08:49 AM by karynnj
who are likely the ones who in all these inside the beltway stories are concerned that Kerry's "freelancing" is hurting the Democrats, should look in the mirror. They were very lead footed here. They could have simply funded Brown and not Hackett. The additional steps of asking him to step down and calling his donors are disgusting and not democratic.

What's stupid is their backing would help Brown, who was already ahead. The primary should decide, not the party "leaders". If Hackett won, in spite of all Brown's organizational advantages, it would be a sign that he had developed into a very good candidate. If, as was more likely, Brown won, Hackett would have the chance to give a dignified concession speech and endorse Brown.

This botched machine politics episode just leaves a very bad tase. It may well be that Brown is the innocent victim. If the polls were right and if they held, this denys him the primary victory he deserved and unfairly makes him a villain to some Hackett supporters. (It really makes me far less supportive of Reid and Shummer - maybe they should consider the rally where Kerry endorsed Villarosa - starting by quietly saying he was speaking against anyone, but for Villarosa. That type of action seems fair, above board, and Democratic.)
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Agreed on Hackett. It's over.
I read on Kos that former Hackett staffers are now dumping all their research they had on Brown, basically handing it over to the Republicans. Kos said that Hackett had nothing to do with it, but that this reflects the unprofessional qualities of his inexperienced staffers. That's the moment I knew that the Party did the right thing in this case. I also have a good feeling about my district, despite my earlier dismay. This Kellam guy may upset Drake, and Ashe will have a good job working for the Kaine administration, experience which may help him for his political future. Obviously, I'm still unsettled about the Senate race here, but we'll see how that thing shakes out. Like WEL said in a different thread, if some kind of reconciliation (could be private or some small gesture) between Webb and Kerry happened, I would feel a lot better about it. Since they're in agreement on Iraq, I can hope for that, right?

On the coming liberal wars, maybe all the blogs should sign a pledge that whatever happens, after the primary, they will unite around whoever that nominee is, and leave their resentment, disappointment, and so on at the keyboard.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. With Webb, I realize my feeling is emotional
Edited on Tue Feb-21-06 11:56 AM by karynnj
I understand that he (like McCain) felt that Kerry by speaking the truth exposed the ugly truths of Vietnam, making it harder for veterans. My reality is that that is not true. Veterans had a tough time in 1969 and 1970 before Lt Kerry spoke. May Lai was already known and for me and many of my college age peers, Lt Kerry replaced Lt Calley as the face of the war - his speaking out rehabilitated our image of those fighting the war. If Webb was for real, in 2004, when it was clear Kerry was the nominee, he would have read the entire transcript and there is no way you can do that and conclude Kerry was condemning the entire US military in VN.

Given the choice of helping re-elect Bush, who was pursuing policies that were disastrous and supporting a man who he hated for words he spoke 33 years before, but who could lead the country better, he should have chosen for the future, not the past. He had three choices - he could support Bush, stay absolutely neutral, or support Kerry(weakly or strongly).

If he wanted to support Kerry strongly, magnanimously forgiving him for words that hurt 33 years before, he could have been incrediblely helpful. He was in a position when the SBVT people came out to really help Kerry. He could have taken Kerry's MTP comments (that his words were over the top, he was angry and 27 yrs old)and engineered a truce. If he was for real, he would have read the entire transcript and there is no way you can do that and conclude Kerry was condemning the entire US military in VN. He could have totally defused the protest end of the SBVT issue.

Or, he could have endorsed Kerry, by saying that his ability, intelligence and skills were so important to the country, he was endorsing him in spite of actions taken in his youth. To stay neutral, he could simply stay quiet - hard - but doable.

The third choice was to support Bush - there were 2 ways to do this. To trash Kerry or to endorse Bush. He trashed Kerry. He likely helped Bush by doing this far more than he would have by merely endorsing him.

For him now to want to run against Bush's handling of the Iraq war as a Democrat is crazy. He helped return Bush to power. If his value system or judgment led him to give more weight to words said by an idealistic 27 year old who has matured into a brilliant statesman than to the death and destruction spread by Bush, I question his judgment and/or values and feel the need to speak against him. What I hate are the party people excited to have him as a potential candidate.

Out of curiosity, has he spoken in any detail about his views other than Iraq? On Iraq, where exactly is he? How can a man who 6 years ago supported a CONSERVATIVE republican like Allen, really be a Democrat? Or is it just that's the open slot?
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