Delete

[demdiva]

[TayTay]

1. okay, me too!

[demdiva]

2. :)

I think I'd be sorry tomorrow if I posted that.
Thanks Tay Tay.

[wisteria]

3. Don't go , we appreciate your view point.

I think Vector feels strongly about hers too. The media and corporate control is a double edged sword. It is in the business of making money and promotes what sells and what is watched. The newscasters and the talk show hosts and writers are just the paid workers. In most cases they are told what to report and what to keep on reporting.
You are not wrong in saying the Democrats should be articulating a clearer message and finding a way to get that message out. We can not blame all our woes on the media- we have to take responsibility also.
If you are still with us, I have recently finished listening to a set of tapes titled "What Liberal Media". I was very fascinated with what I was hearing. If your interested in giving them a listen, I would be happy to loan them to you.

[JI7]

4. not sure what this is about

but based on wisteria's post you are thinking of leaving.

and you shouldn't . many of disagree with things at times.

[demdiva]

5. It's less that there was a disagreement but more that I was

lambasted over posting a constructive criticism that Howard Fineman made last night on MSNBC.

Anyway, I deleted the post because I was partially overreacting to a couple of really long and stressful workdays, but really, I just think that there's a way to voice disagreement and this wasn't it. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2472619&mesg_id=2472619

I'm all about disagreeing, but if the criticism can't be constructive, I have no interest in sticking around here. That's just the truth.

[JI7]

6. i hate Fineman

i can understand those who reacted negatively because Fineman has a history of contempt for the Democratic party and covering up for Bush. so i don't trust anything coming from him.

but i do think your intentions are good and you want to help us do better.

during the campaign Fineman would come out with hit piece after hitpiece where is concerned Kerry. his "concern" for the party is a lie. Fineman is part of the problem in not reporting the truth.

[demdiva]

7. But should I be hated for agreeing with him every once in awhile?

I hate to say that every once in a blue moon I even agree with Bush. (I think the last blue moon must have been a long time ago, because I can't remember the last time) Anyway, we're all on the same side here and I wish that I were treated that way.

[wisteria]

9. Your a better person than me, It just may be that Bush has a good

idea or two, I just can't admit to myself that he does. Oh, and I do recall Fineman mentioning that Kerry is actually a real nice man.He said it on the Imus program. Apparently, Fineman had prostate cancer and Kerry called him out of concern and gave him some valuable advise. They followed up with him every so often.

[JI7]

10. no, i don't hate or dislike you at all, certainly not over this

we often disagree on this forum, but overall we agree on what and who is best for the country.

please, don't take any disagreement on these things as anything negative towards you.

yeah, i hate to admit i even agree with Bush at times also. one of the reasons i have a problem with some of the lefty freeper types is because they almost force you to defend Bush with comments like "Bush is worse than Stalin".

[demdiva]

12. Oh your comments didn't seemed hateful at all

But Vektor's "comments" towards me reeked of hatred

[JI7]

13. i think that was more about frustration

i can understand because we always see and hear what Democrats are doing, yet the media distorts it and then we get people saying the Democrats need to change their message or whatever. yet the media never reported it in the first place.

one of the things that stands out from 2004 is when CNN would show Bush and Kerry giving speeches live sometimes. they showed Kerry for a bit and the part where he went after those attacking his service record and cut away just as he was starting to talk about education and other issues. they went to commercial and came back and had pundits on to discuss what Kerry had said in defending his military record. they were mostly bashing him and saying how people are tired of this issue. never mind that THEY had no problem repeatedly airing what the liars had to say. and THEN they had the nerve to say that people want to hear about things like education. yet THEY cut away from Kerry just as he was talking about that.

but i guess my point is that we deal with these type of things all the time. and that's why Vektor's comments may have come across to you the way it did. it wasn't anything personal towards you though.

[demdiva]

14. So just out of curiosity

If you think there's hypocrisy (or another fault) with the media what do you think their driver is?

[JI7]

15. a few things

first, media such as Fox News was started and remains for the purpose of spreading right wing propaganda.

but others like CNN, NBC, CBS etc either have those who are clearly Bush supporters reporting like Candy Crowley. some of them are afraid of being labeled with the "liberal media" tag.

i remember there was something a short while back that came up about Keith Olbermann mentioning something about the top guys at MSNBC saying what could or couldn't be said in regards to how it would affect Bush or Republicans.

the media also likes to get their ass kissed which McCain does. guys like Kerry who challenge what they say get the worst treatment. Kerry never kisses their asses. the same was true of Gore.

also, Dan Rather being pressured to step down, Phil Donohue's show getting cancelled even though it was doing well in ratings, Aaron Brown being fired for Anderson Cooper. all are cases where those who dared to not toe the line lost their jobs.

one place that isn't so bad and can actually be good is local news. but most probably look to that for things like weather.

[demdiva]

16. I agree that the media goes out of it's way to avoid the "liberal media"

tag . . . .I think this is the media's greatest sin. But I really don't believe it's because the media is advocating the republican viewpoint, it's because they are afraid to advocate any viewpoint at all so they simply report the positions taughted by press reps.

However, a lot of hatred of the media also comes from a commentator who is just playing devil's advocate to spur on their guest.

Fox / Limbaugh blah blah blah . . . .are a totally different issue, since they exist strictly to push the right-wing stance.

But, regardless, I find it valuable to listen to everyone, if only to know why I hate them. And I don't think it's as valuable to dismiss mainstream media messages with a "corporate media" backlash as to discuss the substance / verity / impact of a message.

[Vektor]

18. Oh please.

I very politely disagreed with your first post and you went into attack mode. Anything you got after was your own doing.

Stop playing victim, and trying to rouse pity among this group because you got disagreed with. This is pathetic, and I am sick of your manipulating the situation.

Someone disagreed with you. Get over it.

[demdiva]

19. Listen . . .I wasn't trying to rouse pity

Which is why I deleted my post here.
I'll answer the rest in a personal message because I think the rest of this is better taken offline.

[Vektor]

24. I don't think so.

There will be no "offline."

Just get a grip, would ya?

[demdiva]

21. Attack mode?

I said I found your assessment "odd" because Fineman was saying pretty favorable things about the democrats and that I don't buy the "corporate media" bs and you turned me into the enemy?

I think maybe you thought I was referring to your corporate media comment as bs . . . I actually meant the general corporate media sentiment that exists on the far left. See my other post in this thread for an explanation.

[demdiva]

8. Too ironic!

OK . . . I'm really not trying to change anyone's mind on Fineman (I really do limit my advocacy to candidates) but after J17's post I went to Google him and this is the first post that popped up

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6813945/

Too ironic!

[wisteria]

11. I like the very last line.

"it's hard to know now, who if anyone, in the "media" has any credibility".

[Vektor]

17. Let me tell you something.

Right now.

You can post all the flame bait you want in GDP, but you had better expect that people are going to disagree with you at times, and you need to learn NOT to take everything so personally and start freaking out because everyone does not take your word as gospel. Shit happens.

Let me tell you something else.

I have logged over 5000 posts in this forum, and let's just say I have worked my way up this food chain for a long time. The John Kerry Group on DU is my home, and the people here are my long term loyal friends.

Therefore, I STRONGLY SUGGEST you discontinue coming in here and trying to rabble rouse this group of people against me because I dared contradict what was a VERY INACCURATE assessment of yours of the Democratic party in another forum. If you are going to post such things in GDP, you better be prepared to take the heat - OUT THERE.

HOWEVER.

Do not drag that shit in here and try to continue this debate in the John Kerry group.

And most of all, do not expect that you can just come waltzing in here and expect to stir up animosity toward me from the people that I have called friends, for the past year and a half - many of whom I have met.

You are really out of line with that, and I advise you to not try such a childish, disrespectful, completely asinine stunt again.

You got something to say to me? You keep it on the original thread. Don't bring it here, and don't send snarky P.M.'s to my mailbox ever again either.

I trust I won't have to repeat this.

[demdiva]

20. OK this is ridiculous. I'll be the bigger person here ...

I'm working on four hours sleep, so yes I'm a little over-sensitized. . . and now I'm late for work.

Vektor ... I know these people are your friends which is why I came here.
I'd like to kiss and make up. I'll send you my real e-mail as a sign of good faith.

[Mass]

22. Finenan is not worth fighting over.

The man is generally a tool, but once in a while, he will make sense, as most people.

I really would hate two people from here to fight over that.

This said, I disagree with him. Democrats have had voices proposing solutions for Iraq, starting, but not only, by Kerry. They choose not to follow and they put Reed in charge because he was an ex-military (credibility) that did not want to propose solutions, with a message that was "success in Iraq". (What is success, BTW? Still to be defined, but they clearly love that).

No, really, Finenan is part of the reason why the Democrats don't have a message on Iraq. Because when it was time to report what some Democrats were saying and why it was good, they chose to ignore the message and lambcast the messenger.

[Vektor]

23. Bigger person!??!! WTF?! HAH.

By putting in a last jab about how you're the bigger person, THEN try to suggest a truce?

Do you think I'm an idiot? Take that passive aggressive nonsense elsewhere. The last thing I want to do is call a "truce" with someone who takes one last opportunity to insult me before trying to "kiss and make up."

Bullshit. You did not come here to kiss and make-up. And you know it. You came here to try to make me look bad. Remember, you posted IN HERE about what a horrible mean hateful person I was out there? I hate to tell you this, but you cannot go about getting your panties in a bunch every time someone disagrees with you, and disagreeing with your post does not equal "hateful attacks".

The bigger person would NOT have left a thread where someone disagreed with them and entered a supporters' group forum to try to start a battle in there over NOTHING.

Look, Fineman is a shitty reporter and does the Dem party more harm than good. We disagree on that. Big deal. Go back an re-read your thread out on the main board. A few people chimed in to disagree with you and you got defensive with ALL of them. I hate to tell you this, but that does not make you the bigger person. What you are doing in here sure as hell doesn't either.

Now do yourself a favor and make your "bigger person" post the last one in this forum where you insult me. Remember, you won't find friends here doing that. You wanna be the bigger person? Admit you have been WAY out of line in your behavior regarding the Fineman thread and that is was lower than low to carry that crap into this group in an attempt to get my friends to join you your attacks on me.

Then, leave me the hell alone.

Do you even know that it is against DU policy to carry a disagreement into another thread, and continue to follow a person around via PM, and what not? That could get you banned. Just an FYI.

I had hoped I would not have to repeat to you not to keep PM'ing me. If it keeps up, I'm reporting it.

[demdiva]

27. My PM was nothing but respectful as was the last post.

Correction . . . every post

[Vektor]

29. Fine, then let's just drop it.

Fair enough?

[demdiva]

30. Of course

[wisteria]

25. This is to the point of being ridiculous. We do not need anyone

leaving the Kerry Forum or being asked to leave. This is suppose to be about Senator Kerry. I think we should welcome everyone who supports the good Senator,no matter how they may feel about the media or particular media personalities. Let's stop trying to one-up each other and let it die.No one will think less of anyone.Everyone has a bad day now and again. There are more important issues and matters.

[Vektor]

26. This wasn't about the Senator at all.

This was a totally unrelated disagreement about Fineman that occurred out in GDP, and this person violated the rules by calling me out over in this forum. This is totally against DU policy, and I am not going to sit by and be insulted in this forum for the sake of harmony.

I was perfectly content to discuss this in GDP, and she stepped over the line bringing it here.

For the record, I never asked her to leave, but I am insisting that she stop using this forum in which to rehash old debates from other forums and insult me.

She can post here all she wants, if done appropriately - e.g., stuff actually about John Kerry and not rabble rousing and instigating.

None of us are allowed to do that, and we all respect that. When another DUer from another group did this regarding either Wes Clark or Howard Dean (can't recall which) and she and WEL got into it, the same thing happened. She was asked to respect the rules of this group, and not bring old battles from other forums in here, and yes - she got chewed out.

I have no problem having Demdiva here, but she needs to respect the same rules of etiquette that everyone else on DU, and in the John Kerry forum does.

She also needs, for her own self preservation, to understand that a disagreeing post does not equal an attack, and she needn't take it as such, or else she will never survive in this community.

Don't take it personally, don't MAKE it personal either.

[demdiva]

28. OK seriously . . what rule did I break?

[Vektor]

31. To answer your question:

From the DU rule page:
"Do not "stalk" another member from one discussion thread to another. Do not follow someone into another thread to try to continue a disagreement you had elsewhere. Do not talk negatively about an individual in a thread where they are not participating. Do not post messages with the purpose of "calling out" another member or picking a fight with another member."

Coming to the John Kerry group and starting a thread about me because you were mad about me disagreeing with you in GDP, then saying my posts "reeked of hatred" (they did not) and linking back to that thread in here when I wasn't even ON the thread yet breaks the above rules.

Maybe you didn't know. Now you do, and maybe we can just give it a rest and not let this sort of thing happen again, and it should be fine.

[Moderator]

32. Locking.

Thank you.

DU Moderator