Interesting TPM post; opinions on the Kerry critique?

[beachmom]

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/008333.php

And this is probably as good a time as any to address the question we hear more and more from Democrats: how do we prepare for whatever it is Karl Rove has cooked up this election season? How do Democrats or this or that Democratic candidate 'inoculate' themselves from this year's version of the Swift Boat scam?

With respect, this is loser talk. The 'how will we defend ourselves' conversation is an example of the malady itself masquerading as the cure to the disease.

On a battlefield there is a name for armies that spend all their time and energy planning and conditioning themselves to defend against their opponents' attacks. They're called defeated armies. You defend yourself when and where you must. But you do everything you can to maintain the initiative. And that pretty much always means bringing the attack to the other side.

This isn't just a good way to win political fights. It's also a window into the meta-message that often makes Republican attack politics so damaging for Democrats. If you think back to the Swift Boat debacle of 2004, the surface issue was John Kerry's honesty and bravery as a sailor in Vietnam. Far more powerful, however, was the meta-message: George Bush slaps John Kerry around and Kerry either can't or won't hit back. For voters concerned with security and the toughness of their leaders, that's a devastating message -- and one that has little or nothing to do with the truth of the surface charges. Someone who can't fight for himself certainly can't fight for you. At the time I called it the "Republicans' bitch-slap theory of electoral politics."

I think if it equally criticizes the Party AND the candidate, he has a point. If it's just to bash Kerry, then the same mistakes will be made over and over again. I like the way Josh thinks on this post, though, about Iran.

[TayTay]

1. I think KKKarl is going to be busy fending off an indictment

but, for what it's worth, whichever evil minion Satan sends up to take his place will try and slap the Dems around again. This is still the same bunch who slimed Max Cleland.

I think we go on the offensive against these guys and accuse them of being the party of corruption, whores and endless war. Then we get mean from there. I think that's a good starting point. We can then bring up the idiotic things they have done like Schiavo, Social Security and Abramoff.

Then we bring out the really bad stuff: Katrina and their incompetence in Iraq and make them eat those choking failures. That works for me. How many people have died because of Republican corruption, incompetence and arrogance? Mere hundreds or do you think it's up in the thousands now?

What do you think?

[beachmom]

2. Thousands, if you're counting Iraq

I like the way you think, Tay. Did anybody watch Bill Kristol on The Colbert Report last Thursday? I just checked it out last night, and I realized with the way Kristol was completely stomped down to size that the Republicans are finished. At least the Republicans in their current form. They're definitely going to have to reinvent themselves and it won't be in time for '06. The best was how Kristol was talking about how it's GOOD for the Republicans to lose the House. Man -- that sounds like US a few years ago! Remember there were people talking about how it was GOOD that Kerry lost, so the Iraq War wouldn't take us down. Now that's exactly what the Republicans are saying! I think there's a good chance that my district might go for the Dem, so it's not ridiculous that we may take the House.

But back to Kristol, he just looked to be a defeated man. I just had him going home that night, and just sitting on the floor completely finished. It really is over for them, isn't it? And the Karl Rove or Next Karl Rove tactics are NOT going to work. Because we're not afraid anymore. There's NOTHING they could do to us that could be worse than all of the ugliness and disasters of the past. Kristol mentioned how nobody likes the party of "Pelosi, Dean, and Kerry". Well, we'll just see Mr. Kristol about that, buddy boy . . .

[zann725]

4. Agreed...re Kkarl...and many of the others Indicted or about to be

(nearly ALL the Admin and higher-up Repugs by the time all the current scandals "shake-down."

Oh dear, whoever will be otherwise preoccupied (wearing orange and/or in long-term quite serious Litigation) to plan the '06 and/or '08 Repug victory?

If this were a football game, I'd say there's a WIDE opening for our quarterback(s) to run through easily.

[Dr Ron]

3. Oversimplifies

On a surface level it wasn't Bush who was hitting Kerry with the Swift Boat lies. Whle he bashed him in many other areas, Bush played down any questions on Bush's military service. (Of course we know the campaign was behind this, but the average voter didn't).

When it came directly to Bush versus Kerry, Kerry won that battle decisively in the debates.

The Swift Boat lies were originally a small group who had limited run ads. (It spread because first the right wing media picked it up, followed by the mainsteam media). Should a national candidate respond to every attack ad a fringe group places anywhere?