Contest Rules

[Celebration]

This was discussed by a newcomer in this thread--

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=280x55024#55218

My personal opinion is that if we are to have rules, they should be enforced. I think the reason that they are not enforced is that they may be unreasonable. Specifically, the 200k size limit is really a bit low for a lot of cameras now, so that (so called) rule is often broken. And I doubt if anyone clicking on the contest threads has dialup.

I am not sure why anyone would want to break the 800 length limit, but that has happened.

This isn't a poll at this point, but I was just wondering what people think.

Should we eliminate the rules, liberalize them, or keep them as is and not enforce them?

I'm "non authoritarian" in the extreme, so even bringing up rules in the subject makes me slightly uncomfortable. But, sigh, I do think the contests probably need some sort of rules that are enforced. I could be wrong, though!

I just think it is kind of a mess now, with some people thinking they have to follow the rules, and people like me fudging a bit on the 200k size. I don't even know how to take the quality down to get under the 200k limit. I was posting smaller pictures just to get somewhere near the 200k.

[Blue_In_AK]

1. I don't know.

I just download mine into PhotoBucket and hope they turn out okay. On my monitor my photos always seem to be about the same size as everyone else's, so I just assumed we were all falling within the guidelines. :shrug:

[Celebration]

3. Okay, here is our policy as it stands now

Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Discuss

:rofl:

Blue--

One thing I do know is that you can choose the pixel length of the Photobucket pictures. I have no idea how to get the size down to 200k without reducing the length of the picture, though. You can right click your picture to get the properties.

LOL, I am putting everyone on notice that if the present policy stands (DA, DT,DD) I plan to abide by the 800 pixel length limit and ignore the 200k limit altogether, until someone kicks me out of a contest.

[Mira]

2. I download them into Photobucket with a setting of

"for 15" monitor", the crop determines the ultimate size, but they are almost always close to the proper 200k.
I like them much better if set for 17" monitor, which is what I do when I post here, and it is one picture or so.

I don't know who made the rule, and how we could go about amending it. All I would be interested in is uniformity.
I get disturbed when someone posts a photo that is smaller than the others, because the image would show up so much better larger.
I also get disturbed when someone posts it larger, because I'm envious and wish I had the guts to do it too.

:rofl:

[Celebration]

4. Mira, this next contest is in your court

What are you gonna do? I think we need a poll on this. Maybe I will do some research into this group and the rules of the contest with the Search feature.

Or, can anyone remember why these particular rules were put in place?

[Celebration]

5. here is the first contest I could find

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=280&topic_id=15726

So, I bet Jeff R made up the rules. Maybe he will comment on this thread. Even in that contest someone posted a 900 pixel length picture. :rofl:

My pictures of 800 pixel lengths are almost always way over 200k, especially if I zoom them a lot, or edit them.

[regnaD kciN]

6. We've been running contests since 2004....

Just because the one you mention is "the first contest you could find" doesn't mean that the person who ran it "made up the rules." As far as I know, the rules on submission size have been the same since the beginning.

Like it or not, there are still people using dial-up Internet connections. Photos over 200KB really choke those up -- in my early days while on dial-up, it was not unusual for large photos to time-out and never load. It may not be too bad if one person "cheats" a little (although, if their picture doesn't load for dial-up users, they shouldn't be surprised if they don't get any votes from that group), but, if you've got a poll with ten photos, all over 200KB, that thing's going to take around five minutes to load, if it does at all.

I have had no problems whatsoever getting an 800-pixel-dimension image under 200KB. All I do is use Photoshop's "save for web" option, which shows me the eventual size of the image, and lets me adjust the quality until I get it right under 200KB.

[Celebration]

7. And, if you don't have Photoshop?

Seriously, is there any other way to do it without Photoshop, with any free software?

Do you really think dialup people look at the photo contests?

I guess the archives don't go back to 2004.

[Tindalos]

9. I use The GIMP

It's a free software that does most of the things PS does. It was fairly easy to learn how to do the basics for touch-ups and resizing. (Note: I don't work for or have any affiliation with GIMP)


http://www.gimp.org/

[Celebration]

10. Thanks, I'll try that n/t

[regnaD kciN]

17. For whatever reason, the archives now only go back to 1-1-06...

That didn't use to be the case. In fact, when I was trying to link to my old shoot at Bridal Veil, I had to rely on having added it to my journal, so I could access it from there. I guess DU finally ran out of storage space, and had to jettison old threads?

[intheflow]

20. If you could access the threads from your journal,

they still exist, and were not jettisoned. I'm guessing it's a problem with the search engine operation, not that the pages have become MIA.

[intheflow]

21. The contest rules came about in a democratic fashion,

with much discussion among Photo Group members. I'll see if I can find some of those threads. I know I've linked to them before in here when other people have questioned how the rules have developed.

[intheflow]

22. Here's an early version of a contest submission call:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=280x2709

Still looking for the thread where the majority of the rules as they exist now came about...

[Tindalos]

8. I'm not sure about increasing file sizes

Sometimes I have trouble viewing the pictures on my mum's computer. She has high-speed, but not very high, and it sometimes chokes while loading the contest threads. If the file sizes get too big, some people might stop looking at them. Also, I think there have been cases in past contests where people pulled photos out of their archives or scanned prints and didn't have a larger size.

I resize mine to meet the requirements but it doesn't bother me whether or not others do. My 2 cents is that I'd prefer the contests to be about good pictures and not about reading the fine print. However, I'm still fairly new around here and I'll abide with whatever decision the group makes.

[Celebration]

11. my main issue with what we are doing now

Is that it is confusing! Mainly it is confusing for new people trying to enter the contests. That is how the subject came up to begin with. If Gimp works to resize the pictures, then I won't have an issue with getting mine to 200k. Again, I don't really care that much what the rules are. I mainly think the contest would look a whole lot better if all the pictures that are in landscape mode were the same width. I think it would look better as a group.

If I were in charge of the contest, I think I would probably enforce whatever rules we have, but just resize them myself to get it all consistent.

[MajorChode]

12. My vote is for larger sizes

But my bandwidth is high and I can certainly understand how those who have limited bandwidth are going to suffer. It seems as if it would be best to at least try and figure out how many people are in that boat because it doesn't make sense to tie up one hand of everyone if only a few would have problems.

One compromise might involve having those who post larger pictures note some standard disclaimer in the subject field. That way those with limited bandwidth can choose to open them or not.

I'm not so sure it would be a very good idea to make everyone crop to the same size as that would seriesly limit the creativity of some pictures.

[Celebration]

14. but if we are only talking about the contest threads

that is ten pictures from different people in one thread. Anyone can post any size picture in the photo group in their own threads that they start. But one has to open either all the photos or none in the contest threads.

[JeffR]

13. It should be kept in mind that some rural DUers can't get high-speed

access. Other users, as mentioned upthread, may still have issues because they're bandwidth-limited. As regnaD kciN mentioned, the issue here is really the cumulative size of 10 photos in a contest poll.

Anyone uploading to Photobucket can use the "reduce to" option and choose 800x600.

File size is most directly affected by the amount of jpeg compression used. I've slipped up a couple of times and exceeded the limit, but I can get to under 200k while not sacrificing much clarity and detail to compression. Picasa and pretty much any basic image editor I'm aware of have options for changing the amount of compression used.

You're right that the rules should be enforced. The onus is on the contest host to try and keep on top of that. The last time I hosted, I had to ask an entrant to resize a pic.

[Celebration]

15. I have mucho experience with dialup, even now

Because all we have is AOL at the Tennessee River. Ugh. And that's the reason why I know that there are most likely no dialup voters in the contests. Last time I was there I tried to load a contest thread and it was virtually impossible. Granted, some of the people were not using the guidelines. Still, I promise that if I had to use dialup all the time, I would not be voting in contest threads.

But if the slow speed DSL is affected, that is a good reason to keep the same rules, and, as you say, try to enforce them.

[dbmk]

16. No need to be uncomfortable :)

There are rules in life and rules in games.

In life we can choose to follow or not follow the rules according to our moral compass.

In games were we participate voluntarily, there is nothing wrong with asking for the rules to be followed. And everything wrong with not doing it. And expecting to get a bye on a breach is offensive.
Pet peeve of mine. :)
Its pass Go! and collect 200$. "Ooh, I took 210$ by mistake. You don't mind do you? Its all just for fun?". Grrr!
:)

In this case though, its all down to the lack of knowing and skills needed to abide by it - and its not an issue that gets a rise out of me. But actually enforcing it might end up teaching people a little about how to handle pictures to be posted on the web in general - and in the end make everyone happier and wiser. :)

[ConsAreLiars]

18. See my comments about Irfanview in another thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=280x55672#55718

Short version, that free program makes it easy for us to conform to the rules without having to post undersized images which often lose a bit of their appeal simply by being "too small."

[Mira]

19. This has turned into a good and obviously needed discussion. For now

I have closed the poll I posted because it became evident there was consensus to keep things at 800 length. I became convinced that I would inconvenience/enrage some with a larger size.
So we'll stay with the 800 x 600 / 200k for June, and do our best to make the photos that size.

[Cassandra]

23. I'm on dial-up...

and I manage to vote in the contests. Occasionally a picture refuses to load properly but I can view it at my part-time job, where I have broadband.