So, who wears these clothes? And who pays these prices?

[LuckyLib]

OK, I'm 50+ but have a teenager and am not completely clueless or without fashion sense. Went shopping at two dept stores last week for the first time in 3+ months. Just cruising through, it was all "crack-ho fashions" (a term from another DU poster in this group) -- I have never seen so much neon, purple, black, bad-print polyester clothing in my entire life. Baby-doll dresses (for women, both young and old who are far from baby-doll in size), Trash and flash. And shoes either flat (for micro-mini skirts) or so high they require prancing. My analysis (not original) -- young women are diminished, minimized, while ever-more flashy.

The only good news? Anything goes. Vintage, 50's designs, tights, camo. And the amazing part is the prices. Do young folks have that much disposable income that $150 t-shirts are a go?

But that's my cynical self speaking. What's up?

[ThomCat]

1. I am a shopping buddy for some friends

because I love to shop, and I generally have a very good sense of fashion, colors and styles that fit people.

I have been amazed at the shit that stores are pumping out. It's all cheap, man-made fabrics, gaudy patterns and colors, and styles that don't flatter anyone.

"crack-ho fashions" isn't so far off the mark. It's like they expect every girl and woman to be showing off her availability at all times.

My favorite place to shop is usually the main Macy's store in Manhattan. "The World's Largest Department Store" Even when ugly, tacky stuff is in style I can usually find some gems hidden on the racks there. But it's getting more difficult to find anything that looks good.

:wtf:

I think manufacturers are dictating trashy fashions. It's cheap and generic enough to be very profitable. I don't see teens demanding this much of this shit.

[noamnety]

2. While I'm not personally a fan of "baby doll dresses"

I don't believe certain fashions should be off limits unless you meet a particular size requirement.

Flat shoes ... I am all about that - that's a GOOD thing.

The prices are appalling, and just goes to show how much value in our society is put on how women look.

[Katherine Brengle]

4. I'm not sure how you meant that comment, so I don't want to jump all over you if

I am reading it wrong.

What do you mean by "I don't believe certain fashions should be off limits unless you meet a particular size requirement" exactly?

[noamnety]

5. It was in response to this:

"Baby-doll dresses (for women, both young and old who are far from baby-doll in size),"

Maybe I got tangled in some some double negatives and ambiguous grammar. :)
Second attempt: I don't believe certain fashions should be off limits to people who are above a particular size.

I took the original comment to mean baby-doll dresses are only appropriate for women who are small, childlike, etc. I was objecting to that.

Dresses aren't my personal thing to wear - I am just not comfortable in them. But if others want to wear them, including baby-doll dresses, and including women of all sizes, go for it. I don't like the attitude that some fashions are acceptable if - and only if - you are deemed fuckable.

[Katherine Brengle]

22. Ah, then we are in agreement.

I'm not sure the OP meant it that way, it read to me as "grown women are not infants, and as such should not be dressed like them" or something like that, which I agree with (although I also agree that whatever we choose to wear shouldn't be an issue).

[noamnety]

25. We read it way different, yep

I am so used to people criticizing women for their size - in relation to fashion models or ideal weight - that it didn't occur to me that in this case they might mean in relation to actual dolls or actual babies.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

7. Tell me about it

I totally hate this arbitrary b.s. that says certain women are 'worthy' of clothing that shows their body while the rest of you fat and/or old sows need to cover your disgusting ugly selves up with over-priced caftans. Screw you Fashion Industry. We'll know that equality has been acheived when women can wear loose-fitting pants and comfortable shoes and be taken seriously as both a professional and a potential dating partner.

[Gormy Cuss]

13. I think the term "baby doll dresses" is pretty offensive.

"Baby doll?" How do you accessorize that, with a stuffed animal and a lollipop?

Many of the "baby doll" dresses could just as easily be described as empire waist, or micro mini. Neither of those terms suggest the woman is trying to look like a little girl.

It's creepy enough that the term is used for lingerie.

[noamnety]

15. that occured to me as well.

I was trying not to tear apart the OP line by line, but yes, it's not a term I would use except in echoing their language directly in a response, and I stumbled over typing it - I probably made the wrong decision to follow suit there. Wish I'd thought of "empire waist" - I am not up on my fashion terms.

"Crack-ho" fashions, also, the implication being that if you dress a certain way, you are a whore, men are entitled to have physical access to your body. It's part of the "she was asking for it" mentality.

[Gormy Cuss]

16. Empire waist is what it was called in early go-rounds of that style.

Not all "baby dolls" are empire waist, but many in the current crop are. It's infantilism in the naming of the style that I find disturbing. Is this intended to be the opposite of the "crack-ho" look? Both set up a "she was asking for it" mentality in a perverse way, IMHO. "Baby dolls" are the little Madonnas.

[Sparkly]

29. They remind me of maternity clothes.

:shrug:

[defendandprotect]

32. I think they're supposed to . . . . after all, the Pope wants everyone to have more children -- !!!!

So -- let's all look pregnant to carry thru that idea for Popey -- !!!!

[ismnotwasm]

3. Ugly has been "back" for a while

Each to their own I suppose. But having survived the 70's, the 80's and the 90's, I'm not fond of overpriced polyester "retro" wear. On anybody. Blech. The prices have to be mark up, purely for profit. (Isn't polyester a petroleum product?) I don't know how anybody affords it, I suspect the stores who take over-stock get a lot of business.

I have one daughter, the youngest,(20) a Seattle girl, who usually natural fabrics, shops at second hand stores, keeps her hair in dreads, never wears makeup, and while isn't any fashion icon, (She'd make a Prada wearer wince)she manages to look very cute, independent, and comfortable. She works at the Pike Place Market in Seattle, and fits right in.

What I like about how she dresses, although she'd bomb a serious job interview, is not of it is for sexual display--oh cleavage on occasion--but even that has more to do with the dress she's wearing-- over the pants-- with some sort of wrap around her waist--cute dangly decoration in her hair--tennis shoes or sandals usually- hemp jewelry--tattoo or two, couple of piercings. (When the kids were teenagers, three out of four of them got the tongue piercing, and all of them gave it up as a pain)
So for her, fashion is truly about self decoration.

[bliss_eternal]

6. There's more affordable stuff out there...

...for those seeking other options. But that depends on whether one will feel humiliated to be seen going in or out of a Ross, Marshalls, Loehmans or other lower priced althernatives (like thrift stores, etc.).

There's also places like Target, which many fashion snobs will look down on, but I've found some great (affordable)pieces with a lot of flexibility. Some big name designers are creating lines for stores like this now, too.

I tend to refurbish a lot of stuff, and pay a little more for quality basic items that need to last (i.e.shoes, jeans, slacks, coats, etc.). Thrift shops are sometimes gold mines, but given the way they've been touted in recent years by those fawning all over "vintage," sometimes all the best stuff is already picked over.

I really hate all these "style" shows on tv. :crazy:
Who ARE these people and why the hell should they tell the rest of us how to look? Most of these "experts" expect women to spend a lot of money to look the way they dictate. :eyes:

Personally, I enjoy seeing people take some "risks" with their clothing and "style." At least it says they are individuals, willing to break away from the pack and refuse to be dictated to by the evil fashion industry.

As an adult I feel I've earned the right to dress however I want, and I do.
My heart goes out to young girls that feel "pressured" into looking the way their peers do. I remember what it was like, people can be cruel to the kids that don't "look like everyone else."

[prole_for_peace]

8. i am picky about my clothes and i shop at target too

they have great pieces at reasonable prices. i have to dress "professionally" for work but i don't like to look frumpy-professional and i can dress fun and funky with target clothes and shoes.

[bliss_eternal]

11. Target rocks...!

...it's great for basics and the occasional "trendy piece" at an affordable price. It's rare that I see anything that's considered "in fashion" that I like for myself. But when I do, I'll get it at Target.

Why pay ridiculous retail prices on items most will consider "out" in a few months? When I pay Target prices for it, I can rework it somehow and turn it into something that looks different, but everyone thinks it's new and wonders where I got it. ;)

[Book Lover]

9. How could I ever feel humiliated coming out of Ross

when I got the *best* pair of pinstripe work pants evah for $2.50 (yes, you read that right)?

[bliss_eternal]

10. I hear you.

:bounce:

...I've found some great buys at stores like that. Got a sweater that I wear to this day at Ross. Not a polyster crap sweater---a gorgeous angora/wool blend sweater that I get compliments on all the time---super cheap, great buy!

But you know, some people would feel too "ashamed" to be caught at Ross. :eyes: Who knows why. :shrug:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

14. Ditto on the fashion shows

I've watched a few, and while sometimes I liked what they did with person they were "making over", in most cases I felt they completely removed any semblance of individuality the person had to stamp them with this blandly-homogenous-tastefully-chic look.

[bliss_eternal]

18. I hate that they straighten everyone's hair.

Whenever there is a makeover segment featured on a talk show and a woman is shown BEFORE with curly hair, you just know they're going to blow fry it completely straight. Sometimes it's heartbreaking, seeing someone's gorgeous curls destroyed in the name of fashion. :eyes:

I hate the way the fashion and hair stylists insist EVERYONE looks better with bone straight, limp hair. So boring. And let's be honest, most insist everyone looks better with it, because they lack the ability to style anything except straight hair. Cosmetology programs spend very little time teaching how to cut, style or make curly hair look good. They just tell them to "make it straight."

Many women with curly hair can look GREAT with it, if they just have the right cut and tools. Some of course prefer their hair straight, and I have no issue with that. But these shows "dictating" that the ONLY acceptable hair is STRAIGHT hair makes me angry.

The same way designers refusal to address the plus size market for so long, made me angry. It's like they were saying "if we don't address it, it doesn't exist....women over size 9 will just have to lose weight to wear our clothes." :grr::mad:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

21. Oh I know! I have curly hair and I HATE that!

Sorry, but I don't want to spend an hour every morning blow-drying and flat ironing my hair to fit some arbitrary dictate.

[spooky3]

30. I can't for the life of me determine whether the woman looks "good"

when the fashion mavens are putting different outfits on her. Most of the time I think the colors are ugly, the cuts are unflattering, and the fashions were obviously intended for a size 2. When the normal-sized women who go on those shows put on those skin tight clothes, I think they look awful.

The 80s were over the top in many ways, but the loose clothes worn then and into some of the 90s were comfortable and flattering on a lot of people, and women did not have to be rail thin to have the clothes look as if they were designed with them in mind.

As a person with naturally straight hair, I think people lucky enough to have natural curls almost always look better in them than the bone straight looks.

I keep waiting for these trends to pass but trends inexplicably keep hanging on longer than ever.

[lightningandsnow]

12. There are other ways

...to find good clothes. If you're ever in the Toronto area, go to Black Market Clothing on Queen Street (the warehouse). It's this really affordable vintage clothing store - I love getting stuff there. A lot of it is really unique and interesting.

I got this gorgeous winter jacket for 30 dollars. No 150-dollar t-shirts there!

And yes, sometimes fashion is really just for self-decoration. I do like fishnet tights, and I own 1 or 2 dresses/skirts that could be considered "short", but I'm not doing it to turn myself into a sex object. I just happen to like certain clothes. Most of what I wear is not really that revealing anyway.

[femrap]

17. I wish I had learned to sew.....

I think everything looks like crap. I hate all of the 'oily' fabrics that stick to me. I love cotton, linen, and whatever happened to gabardine wool slacks, dresses, and skirts?

It amazes me that all of the designers are manufacturing in China....their profit margins must be astronomical!!! I never buy goods made in China or the Northern Marianna Islands.

My city only has Macy's now....and I think they send us only the ugly stuff....after all it's Ohio...we have no style, right?

The only time I shop is at the end of the season when everything is 75% off. All I bought for this summer season was a blouse. It was originally $40.00 and I got it for $7.00!

Have you looked at The Girl's Department? Little Ho Department....sickening.

[bliss_eternal]

19. It's not too late...

...to learn to sew. There's been a big resurgence of diy (do it yourself)--and many crafts stores offer sewing, knitting, crocheting classes. In my area, I've seen it offered at Joanns, the adult schools, juniour colleges and some independent fabric stores.

I've crocheted since I was a kid and I enjoy working with my hands. I tend to make myself accessories (hats, scarves) as I usually can't find what I like when it get's cold. Most of the stuff is mass produced crap that doesn't hold up well, in the oddest colors.

The evil fashion industry deems what THE color is each season and of course, nothing is made in anything but THAT COLOR. :eyes: Attempts to find anything different are futile at best. Some seasons they don't even make certain accessories(one year I couldn't find a scarf to save my life). So creating my own accessories, kind of became a necessity. I can make items in colors, styles and fibers that I like and enjoy wearing.

I plan to take sewing soon, too--so I can make more clothing items for myself. :)

[femrap]

20. I may just check into

taking a sewing class...thanks for the encouragement.

[bliss_eternal]

27. Anytime!

I love seeing people explore their creativity. It can be a enjoyable outlet!

I have friends that didn't learn to sew, crochet or cook because their moms didn't want them to feel they had to be "domestic." I totally understand their feeling that way considering a certain generation grew up with that expectation. Imagine being told as a girl you couldn't even take shop if you wanted to, because you had to learn to be "a good homemaker" and there would always be a man around to fix your car. :eyes:

Good luck with it--let us know how it goes! :hi:

[femrap]

28. I was in that Last Year of

'no shop for girls.' The next year the sexist ways were thrown out of our high school. Alas, too late for me. However, I stood firm on Home Ec...I refused to take it. I said I could read, therefore, I could cook. I really wanted to learn to make a coffee table. However, I ended up learning Gregg Shorthand (a dying skill) which I use to this day. And it got me practically straight A's in college because I got every word of the prof's lecture...the night before an exam, I read her/his words and then regurgitated them the next day. People love to hear their own words.

BTW, since I love to eat, I learned to cook. But the sewing....who knew that clothes would become so damn ugly and 'sexee?' I will keep you informed!

[Katherine Brengle]

23. I'm just about to screen a t-shirt with the message "diy or die" lol.

Seriously, it's never too late to learn new skills.

[bliss_eternal]

26. Screen printing looks so fun.

I just got a dvd about it, hoping to learn the process. I just think it may be tough to do in my apt. :shrug:
I love your shirt idea--great expression!

[defendandprotect]

33. Probably not too late to learn to sew, but fabric stores are difficult to find now ---

and good, reasonably priced fabrics, even harder -- !!!!

[bliss_eternal]

24. Regarding your question about young people and

their disposable income--no, I do not believe they have that kind of money to spend on clothes. In many cases, neither do their parents, but some seem to try (bless them--for trying so hard to not disappoint their kids).

I've overheard some VERY disturbing conversations between parents and their kids while out shopping--(kids being really mean to their parents over some item the kid feels they HAVE to have, and the parent MUST buy them). :( I feel very sad for a lot of parents of today. Parenting is a hard job, that outside forces seem to make that much more difficult. Advertising and the fashion industry are evil--the way they target young people. Horrible.

I don't recall things being marketed AT youth when I was younger, the way it is now. Sure, every now and again there was some "special toy" placed in a box of cereal that we wanted to have--but that was about it. The biggest "item" tie-ins when I was growing up (yes, I'm dating myself) were for Star Wars (which George Lucas initiated) and later Reeces Pieces and ET.

These days every movie is tied into a product.
Musicians and pop stars are tied into special edition "cell phone" releases---that they've designed or endorsed. :eyes: Tv shows feature actors wearing a designer's latest offering (shoes, handbags, jewelry, etc.). There are "Teen magazines" based on women's mags--Teen Cosmo, Teen Glamour, even a Teen bridal thing that's geared toward proms.:scared:

Sadly not every kid has the ability to see through the bullshit.

[defendandprotect]

31. Ah -- a subject which should be regularly commented upon -- updates, please!!!!

My TV is rarely on, but every once in a while I take a turn around the block to see what's happening and will come upon the run-way show!!! Most of it is unusable, unwearable clothing.

And, how about the last two-three years with clothing that looks like a large boat of rhinestones and other shiny objects crashed on our shores????

Fabrics are lowest quality --

And, try to stop buying stuff made in China -- !!!!!