Molestor/Death Penalty

[ls317]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/06/09/molester.execution.ap/index.html

OKLAHOMA CITY, Oklahoma (AP) -- Oklahoma on Friday became the fifth state to allow the death penalty for certain sex crimes, although legal scholars questioned the constitutionality of the new state law.

Under the measure signed by Gov. Brad Henry, anyone convicted twice for rape, sodomy or lewd molestation involving children under 14 can face the death penalty.

South Carolina's governor signed a similar law on Thursday allowing the death penalty for offenders convicted twice of raping children younger than 11. Louisiana, Florida and Montana also have laws allowing the death penalty for certain sex crimes.

[MercutioATC]

1. If I was in favor of the death penalty, these are the people I'd want dead

If you hurt a kid, you deserve something really atrocious.

[Warpy]

3. Most of those guys are in such deep denial that they have no clue

they're destroying the children they rape.

I just want them locked up or surgically castrated and closely followed.

The recidivism rate is just to great for other alternatives.

[ls317]

9. They are talking about using GPS Trackers for sexual offenders

In Indiana

[Warpy]

10. They're talking about that in NM, as well

The problem with that is that the offender has to want to be tracked, has got to want to comply with the law. Most are incapable of that without a lot of years of intensive therapy.

Any implanted GPS unit will simply be removed by the predator.

[Nevernose]

15. Castration doesn't work

Molestation's not about sex, it's about power and sickness and gods-only-know what else.

Even removing both pieces of equipment (penis and testes) doesn't work, because it's not about sexual gratification; all a pedophile needs is their fingers.

On edit: Come to think of it, occasionally even women are child molestors (though certainly not to the extent of men).

[melnjones]

19. THANK you

for acknowledging the fact that yes, women also commit sex crimes, even against children. It happens far more often than people realize and is very seldom recognized or reported.

[jerry611]

5. So you hurt a kid and you shouldn't have constitutional rights?

Child predators are the lowest of the low. But I respect our constitution and our constitution grants them rights.

[MercutioATC]

21. Did I say anything about denying Constitutional rights?

However, if convicted, the penalty for abusing a child should be monstrous.

[Swede Atlanta]

6. I agree........

If I felt the death penalty was a valid exercise of the state's power these would be crimes that should be closely scrutinized for its application. But I don't believe the death penalty serves as a deterrent to crime, lowers society to the level of those who have committed these crimes and is arguably immoral. I'm not sure these statutes would withstand constitutional challenge, however. While these crimes are indeed heinous, I think it would be difficult to satisfy the cruel and unusual punishment limitation as applied to them.

[BlooInBloo]

35. How many innocent people are you willing to kill?

Because there's no such thing as a perfect system.

So give me the number of innocents you're willing to kill, in order for you to have "justice" on the guilty ones.

[MercutioATC]

37. Did you not read the subject line of my post?

I said "If I was in favor of the death penalty..."

I'm not.

[muntrv]

2. What about raping adults? No death penalty?

[beam me up scottie]

4. Good point.

Great one, actually.

If one wants to murder rapists, why not murder all of them?

[Book Lover]

7. David Brook says in the article what I was thinking

"The last message you want to give an offender who has the life of a child in his hands is you might as well kill the child because he's already got the death penalty,"

Set aside the unwise choice of giving any government the authority to slay a citizen: this revenge-based model of justice needs to be tempered with just a little reasoning. C'mon, people, just a little!

[beam me up scottie]

11. Too much to ask.

Much easier to kill them when one believes people are "evil".

[NaturalHigh]

14. I'm not very enthusiastic about this law...

but child molesters are evil. They are the lowest pieces of shit alive, IMO.

[Occulus]

27. I can't ever take that stand, though I understand you sentiment...

I have known one person for over sic years who was falsely accused by his ex-wife and stepson. They wanted him gone, and they also wanted his stuff. They got away with it, too.

According to the transcript of the hearing, the kid- get this, I just can't understand this part- the kid testified his stepdad was asleep at the time the "fondling" occurred. Further, he also testified that the guy's hand wasn't moving, only lying there palm up- but it happened to be on the kid's crotch, the kid and his mom blew it way, way out of proportion, and the guy I know is paying for it- hard.

He will be, for many many years to come.

I simply can't take the stand that "every child molestor is a monster", because some of the ones we keep track of on lists actually didn't do anything. Our system is not perfect; some innocent people will get caught up in it.

I'm just saying yours may not be the most just stand to take. All parties deserve justice, which swings both ways.

[NaturalHigh]

39. I understand where you're coming from.

I was speaking only of the truly guilty, the ones who actually prey on children. You're right, of course, that some innocent people have undoubtedly been convicted of crimes, which is another reason I'm not all that wild about this law.

[TahitiNut]

32. Yep. Murderers use 'reasons' just like that.

... or that they 'deserve' it. Funny how the 'reasons' for homicide match up no matter who's doing it. :puke:

[dflprincess]

16. That crossed my mind as well.

n/t

[MrSlayer]

8. I don't see why you have to do it twice.

Once is enough. Look at how many kids would still be alive today if they had just killed the scumbags on their first offense. I really don't care how "regressive" this stance makes me seem. I have absolutely no mercy for these fucking pieces of dog shit. Nothing is lower or more deserving of death than a pedophile.

[oneold1-4u]

12. With you on that

We go to war and kill. We search out terrorists and kill.
We give trials to the killers and maimers of our children and even those with multiple charges. Not a century ago, they would have been strung up and there weren't any more mistakes of hurting the innocent than there is today.
Some things don't need liberal attachments!

[Ladyhawk]

13. As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, I think life imprisonment

is the proper punishment. Strange as it may seem, children often have a relationship with their abuser and concern for the abuser's well-being. When the guy who molested me was finally arrested, I can remember feeling like it was my fault, that I'd got him in trouble by telling. The trial was bad enough. Had he been executed, it would have caused me much more trauma than I'd already experienced.

I'm not sure how the situation is handled these days, but making children testify repeatedly in court is abusive in and of itself. Muddying the issue is the fact that some children have actually lied about abuse, so I'm not sure how to fix this. I had to give the testimony so often I think it left me irrevocably scarred. Obviously the defense was looking for holes in my story, but all I knew is I hated it.

I've had a really rotten day, so this is all I have to say on the issue. My mind has had enough for one day.

[melnjones]

20. I was about to say the same thing...

glad someone else agrees. I'm anti-death penalty as it is, but there is absolutely no way I would want my abusers given that sentence. That would be even worse than the abuse itself and pile on even more guilt.

[Ladyhawk]

40. A good-hearted kid just wouldn't understand.

I felt bad enough as it was! As an adult I sometimes wish him ill, but as a kid, there was no malice in me. Kids tend to be that way and to betray their trust a second time is unconcionable.

HUGS!

[McCamy Taylor]

17. These states must have extra tax dollars to waste in appeals court

because these laws will not hold up and will cost the states big defending them (both in automatic defense of the death row inmates AND in defense of the statutes) all the way to the SCOTUS where they will be overturned as cruel and unusual punishment.

Yet another example of taxpayer dollars being spent by legislators trying to curry favor with the base prior to an election.

BTW, consensual kinky sex with a 13 year old prostitute who looked a lot older by a 18 year old boy on two occassions would merit the death penalty under this law, if the DA wanted to be a hard ass, no? Since it would be statuatory rape.

[jerry611]

30. The media has the whole country in complete hysteria on this

Look at how the media has the entire country in a complete hysteria over this. The state of Maine had to take down their sex offender registry. It is no longer avaliable to the public now. Why? Because some vigilante decided to make a hit list off it and he killed two people who were on it. So the state how to take it down completely. So now parents can't check to see who lives around them anymore.

Welcome to Bush's America...

[ContraBass Black]

18. I oppose the death penalty

Regardless of the offender.

[5X]

22. Our supposed 'democratic' governor could only have signed this..

as a political move. This can't possibly be seen as justice
or constitutional.

[Sgent]

23. In my state we've had the death

penalty for a while for first offenders if the victim is under 10.

I've never heard of a prosecutor going for the death penalty for a sentance though once the verdict is given. They mostly use it as leverage to get plea agreements. Since a plea agreement means no testimony for the child, they will often take one (for say 20 years) rather than seek longer sentances / death penalty.

[REP]

24. Life Sentences (At Least) for ALL Sex Offenders

Contrary to the current hysteria, most sex offenders do not primarily target children; they target anyone of any age they can. They should all be locked up forever (I'd go for executed, except it's our government determining who's guilty).

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madmusic]

26. The logical conclusion is too ugly I see. n/t

So rather than face it, my post was removed.

EDIT: Here's the link and it ain't pretty:

http://www.sodomylaws.org/world/iran/iran.htm

[REP]

28. I Was Talking About the US, Not Iran

There's a whole different thing going on over there. I don't see what that has to do with imprisoning rapists here for life. But thank you, I guess.

[madmusic]

36. Right, the U.S.

US Senate Candidate Wants Death Penalty for Homosexuals

TOLEDO -- Merrill Keiser, Jr., is a trucker by trade, and he's hoping his next journey takes him all the way to Washington. His goal is a seat in the US Senate, but first he has to make it through the primary that will determine which Ohio Democrat will be the November ballot.

The Fremont man is causing some controversy with one of his beliefs. He tells News 11 homosexuality should be a felony, punishable by death. "Just like we have laws against murder, we have laws against stealing, we have laws against taking drugs -- we should have laws against immoral conduct," Keiser says.

http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?s=4590031

[jerry611]

29. Great Idea! That will show them!

I think this is a great idea. The death penalty would be a perfect way to stop child predators from committing their crimes against our kids. They will never even consider doing it if we can just make the punishment harsh enough!

Just look at how well the death penalty has prevented murder the last 30 years..

:sarcasm:

[Deja Q]

33. Some will be deterred. Not so for others.

And "life in prison" these days is guaranteed food and shelter.

Why reward such disgusting acts?

I prefer people getting real treatment before they do anything nasty. There is no shame in admitting one needs help.

My hatred only goes to those who actively hurt children in this manner.

[Deja Q]

31. Child molesters ought to be exterminated.

I was victim to one.

It's the past, but those who have never been victimized can never fully understand.

And at times I wish they would. :(

[jerry611]

34. Where do you draw the line?

My grandparents were not near in age. My grandfather was 15, my gradmother was 24 when they first met. They married 3 years later. They were married for 55 years and had a family of 3 children. How many marriages today last 55 years? Not many.

Today, that relationship would be illegal and society would have broken the relationship up. My grandmother would be labeled a pedophile by society. And I would never have been born.

So my opinion...when the victim is 12 and under, the offender can be given harsh punishments. But when a victim is 13 and up, it should be on a case by case basis.

[Deja Q]

38. Last I recall, molestation is where one person violates another sexually,

where the other doesn't want it.

I think your situation is rather different - and, forgive me, irrelevant. I applaud their success together. Most people don't bother making the attempt. Easier to break up... :shrug:

[Tesha]

41. You would be wrong.

> Last I recall, molestation is where one person violates
> another sexually, where the other doesn't want it.

You would be wrong.

When the victim is under age, society steps in and does
not care what the victim (or anyone else) thinks about
the situation.

Lots of folks are registered sex offenders even though
there's no one besides the prosecutor who thinks a crime
was committed.

Tesha