Been test driving Windows Vista (beta 2) all night!

[William769]

And all I can say is WOW! Haven't even gotten to everything yet.

I am impressed am glad I decided to test it, can't wit for the retail version to come out.

The only two problems I see so far are 1. It took 4 1/2 hours to install over Windows XP (my computer not only meets system requirements, but far exceeds them (I don't know). 2. processes under Windows XP it was 164m for me, under Windows Vista it's 918m.

If anyone has any questions they would like to know ABout Windows Vista (Beta 2) I will be more than happy to try to answer them.

[banana republican]

1. I use Debian Linux for browsing

The only machine I use Windoze on is for software that I can't otherwise run.

Sorry; Windoze is the last choice...

[William769]

2. Sorry your loss.

[Deja Q]

10. The only loss is the lack of certain applications.

And Linux is starting to get good with this concept of "catching up".

I've been mostly Linux for years now; my Windows box being used solely as a multimedia center. A bulky, pricey one, but I can play Region 2 DVDs and spare the expense of additional equipment.

[acmejack]

37. Hey HypnoToad, have you tried Ubuntu?

What you think? I have obtained a new (to me that is) box to play with and am thinking to put Ubuntu in it to play with. I run windows, to do remote assistance, my money maker, on my clients systems. They all use MS, so I must as well. As long as it comes bundled on new systems we will have to use it too.

[Deja Q]

95. Not yet. I ought to, but I found Suse's AppArmor to be an incentive

to go back to them from Fedora after Red Hat nixed the project.


A flip-flop of my own from a year or so ago, yes, but performance tests had piqued my interest too.

[jayfish]

3. Great, Go Start A Debian Thread Then. -NT-.

Jay

[William769]

21. Thanks I was thinking the same thing.

Here is a quote from a fellow DUER (Warren Stupidity) and he is absolutley right!

"I'm sure that the advocates of other os's will disagree, but they most likely will do so from a state of blissful ignorance."

[rman]

30. most of that ignorance is mutual

[William769]

35. Perefect example is this thread was for people to get informatiuon about

Windows Vista, Not to bash Windows. See the Difference? His quote stands true.

[rman]

36. the bashing is mutual - i see no difference there.

[William769]

40. Where is it mutual? Care to show me where I have ever ever

Bashed another OS system. Walk the walk & talk the talk.

[rman]

54. how about "sorry, your loss"?

[William769]

60. That was in response to a derogatory comment to begin with.

Surly you can do better than that.

And how is that bashing other OS systems.

[rman]

63. the usual attack the message and the messenger,

the distinction gets blurred.

besides, how is "windows is the last choice" derogatory?

[William769]

68. Your not even quoting correctly

Try "Windoze". That makes a difference. But I can understand the misquote trying to boost your claim which did not work.

[rman]

76. so we're down to nit-picking.

i should stop wasting my time here.

[William769]

80. Actually you have been wasting my time.

"Nit picking". Thats a good one! :rofl:

[Mr_Spock]

69. lol - You're arguing just for the sake of argument

You have NOTHING to contribute to the topic in this post.

ridiculous.

[Gabi Hayes]

115. no he's NOT!

yes, he IS!

http://www.mindspring.com/~mfpatton/sketch.htm

could people around here POSSIBLY have thinner skins?

it took ONE post to start things off

JFC......

[jayfish]

118. Could Have Just As Easily Meant That...

it was "your loss" that "Windoze is the last choice". That's an endorsement of Windows rather that a repudiation of linux. Your "Windoze is the last choice" comment however was an attack on Windows. But you spin it any way you like.

Jay

[upi402]

124. Computard is my OS, but thanks for the info! n/t

[jayfish]

110. Not Really.

I've installed several recent linux distros and as a consumer level client OS, it's just not ready for prime time. I sure in a server capacity with competent admins it's great though.

Jay

[alcibiades_mystery]

74. I dual boot XP Pro and Ubuntu

Ubuntu is a better OS, though I'll admit that XP Pro simply looks better, especially with Stardock customization stuff I've got on it (Object Dock, Window Blinds, Icon Packager, etc.). So, I wouldn't say it's from a state of blissful ignorance. Most people who run Linux OS's are PC people, and are thoroughly familiar with any number of Windows incarnations. I do like Windows for some things, but I also like the power and control I get over my OS in Linux.

As far as I can tell, the Vista beta is a real resource hog, which they'll be working on, and it's security features (especially when it comes to permissions) are over the top. In other words, they overshot with security, but in a way that reduces convenience while only adding marginally to actual security. They're working on that, too. I have no doubt that Vista will be functional and even a great OS for most users. I'll tell you this: my XP Proi has not crashed once. NOT CRASHED once. In over two years. It runs without reboot for quite a while (I don't test this that often, since I often reboot into Ubuntu).

Now I'm going to make a controversial claim. The reason Windows seems so much better for the average user is simple: the Windows installer. Most users, when faced with Linux, get upset that they have to unpack tars and make sure they have their dependencies. Granted, this takes about 10 minutes to learn, and once you learn the principles of installing and (sometimes) compiling, you have much more control over your system. But people dig the Windows version of "click the .exe and let us do the work." It reduces choice, but amplifies convenience.

[acmejack]

105. Agree 100%

it was just like NT and 95 in the Megasoft world. NT was better in almost every respect, but the hardware management process frightened most people off. Can I ask you a couple of questions about your dual boot configuration? I haven't installed it yet because both of my systems now are mission critical to my business. Or would I be well advised and put it on a stand alone system which would be an old pig of a machine for now? I won't have a good system for it until next month when I intend to run it on new 64.

[Clark2008]

90. We've had it at work for months (I work for a computer

learning center - it's not on our work computers, but we've been test-driving it for future instruction).

While it certainly has some aesthetic qualities that are fantastic, I'm still not putting it on my computer until the bugs are mostly worked out.

[Madrone]

137. Blissful ignorance?

Or from being required to know more than the average bear in order to support end users with constant problems?

Hmmm... I wonder.

[SPKrazy]

125. If I Wanted To Use Linux, Where Would I Start?

I don't like MS, have XP home edition

we have a mac also running osX.2

I know nothing about Linux except that I see people talk about it all the time.

I'm not a computer expert, is Linux something you don't have to be a programmer to run?

[JohnyCanuck]

130. Try Ubuntu linux, I've heard good things about it

and am considering putting it on my own XP machine as a dual boot option. You can download a CD version of the OS for free, burn it to CD and boot off the CD leaving your hard drive unaffected. If you like it and want to experiment further you can then install it on the HD either as a stand alone OS or to dual boot with Windows.

You can find out more about Ubuntu linux here: www.ubuntu.com . Check out the bottom of the page at www.ubuntu.com/desktop where it says "Ready to try Ubuntu" for the download link.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

4. Did you upgrade or do a clean install?

[banana republican]

Clean install. GREAT product better than windoze

[rman]

16. great how, why?

Besides looking better and requiring faster hardware, that is.

[Deja Q]

18. Debian requires faster hardware than Vista?

:rofl:

[rman]

20. i blame the oddly placed replies

[William769]

23. Upgrade.

[acmejack]

5. 918M?

Nice small footprint... snark aside you really like it so much you're going to run out and throw however much down the upgrade costs? It is a real quantum leap forward, reviews didn't seem to suggest that? You have any feeling on pricing? It is going to be released in about five different variants isn't it?

What is the single biggest improvement, reason I should run out and upgrade XP pro, in your opinion? Thanx. god bless beta testers!

[Deja Q]

17. Keep in mind that the official version will be better. Of course,

XP Tablet Edition is a bit of a oinkie hog too.

What we are seeing will remain 90% identical, but as a beta and not an official release (which will still be beta quality, but they don't care), things are subject to change.

918MB was far more than the 450MB I saw in use. Of course, I did a clean install - I did NOT do an upgrade path. As I said, an upgrade path usually ends up far worse than just formatting in the first place.

[William769]

24. Biggest improvement I have seen, I would say is, stability

And this is in Beta! Pricing I have no idea. For me I did not have to upgrade anything to run Windows Vista.

[Ready4Change]

72. Stability? In 24hrs?

If, within 24 hrs, you are seeing a noticeable improvement in stability, then I suspect your previous OS install may have had some issues. Much though I harp on Window's willingness to crash with regularity, crashing lots within 24hrs would have been a sign that something was wrong in the your old installation, not the OS.

Your perceived stability improvement may be due to a fresh install, not an improved OS.

Just my .02

[alcibiades_mystery]

75. Yes, it's ridiculous to claim stability for a beta you've had 24 hours

There's no basis for a stability claim.

I will make a stability claim for my XP pro. I have had it for two years (upgraded from the monstrously unstable Wondows ME), and it has not crashed once. It runs without reboot for as long as I've needed it to. Then again, my Ubuntu 5.10 has not crashed either, and probably never will. ;-)

[jayfish]

6. Unfortunately For Me, Vista,...

at least the 64bit version will not install on my machine. I have a couple other machines I could try it on but neither have a video card strong enough to run Aero.

Jay

[Deja Q]

14. Most people won't and Aero is the only thing left about Vista.

The system requirements alone make this a joke bestowed upon the masses. And quite possibly even more prone to malware.

Mark my words. Those who invest in Vista will be in for quite a shock down the road.

And even even larger one awaits buyers of the supercomputing cluster OS, also based on a flimsy consumer OS rather than anything meant to be AS a server. The registry alone is something you don't want in a server environment.

[William769]

49. CA Anti virus is already compatible for Windows Vista Beta 2

http://www.my-etrust.com/Microsoft/vista/default.aspx

[Occulus]

85. What are the DRM issues in Vista?

I heard some seriously bad news in the runup to the beta test- serious enough to keep me away from Vista forever.

How does it handle copyrighted/copied media? Does it, at all?

(pssssst.... where can I download the 64-bit build of Debian WITHOUT using Bittorrent? Bittorrent bluescreens my machine, every single time I run it)

[jayfish]

119. That's Really My Biggest Concern With Vista As Well.

It may cause me to just bite the bullet and convert to linux for good. Unfortunately, in our current biz friendly at every turn environment, I don't think it will be long before the same draconian measures are added to linux through legislation. Dem reps aren't much better then the Pugs on this issue so the mid-terms amy be of little help.


Jay

[sendero]

122. Yes..

.... but there will be a lot more open-source application software for Linux that ignores DRM, I'm pretty sure of that.

[jayfish]

109. Aero Will Run On My Main System But...

I can't get past a nebulous "Machine Exception Error" on the DVD boot. I'm sure it's a BIOS issue but my MB manufacture hasn't updated it since september of last year. As far as "The system requirements alone make this a joke bestowed upon the masses", that's the way it has always worked. Software drives hardware sales. I sure you wouldn't want to be using a i486 today. ...would you?

Jay

[William769]

25. Sorry to hear that

Aero is what I was most interested in.

[acmejack]

43. They didn't include the new disk management system did they, just ran with

NTFS, sorry, I can't remember what the new one was called, XXFS? As an old line NT guy, I am not always sure bigger is better. But I am very eager to see Vista run. Any really cool administrative/maintenance features that are going to make our lives easier?

[William769]

64. I believe it's still NTFS

"Any really cool administrative/maintenance features", you betcha! under Administrative the thing I see I like the most is Parental control Parents cann actually see what and where there kids have been (As I duck from people who will scream about this feature) I am of the opinion that on line predators need to be stopped & thios will be a great tool for parents. As for maintenance I glanced at it but have not used any of it yet.

[jayfish]

111. I'm Interested In Aero, But...

I'm also looking forward to the enhanced security features. I like the linux/UNIX model and I'm glad MS is moving in that direction. Like kgfnally, I am more than a bit concerned about the DRM garbage, but we'll see how that pans out.

Jay

[rman]

7. So what impressed you besides it being a memory hog?

I mean, "wow" isn't very informative.

[William769]

27. Stability would be number 1.Everything is graphical now.

(Yes I like Eye candy). Everything in vista is color coordinated (being Gay I love that!) Example your windows floder matches your desktop theme.

[rman]

28. How is it more stable than XP pro?

(i don't care for eyecandy)

What do you do that makes XP crash that doesn't make Vista crash?

on edit: everything already is graphical since windows 3.0.

[Deja Q]

31. A pity Microsoft is cozying up to ATI then...

ATI is known for slapdash graphic drivers, and Microsoft got slammed re: stability when NT 4 came out; they altered the process level for the graphics subsystem (it was moved from Ring 0 to Ring 3; the former slower but the most stable/protected)...

MS is a cheat. Always has been.

I will admit their new UI is finally something worthy... but it's too resource intensive for no reason.

Linux's themes for GNOME and KDE are color coordinated too.

[William769]

38. I don't know about that I have Nvidia

They also have drivers already compatible for Windows Vista (beta 2) which put my mind at ease for doing the switch.

[alcibiades_mystery]

77. ATI is nasty to Linux systems

So, naturally, Microsoft will cozy up to ATI.

;-)

[jayfish]

116. Why Isn't It Ever A Case Of...

linux systems being nasty to ATI? I'm sure you reply will be that ATI writes crappy drivers (or no drivers at all) for linux, so I'll save you the keystrokes. When I do a clean XP install on a machine, 99% of the time I never have to go to a manufacturers site to download a driver. Do you know why? Because Microsoft writes their own drivers for an incomprehensible amount of devices. Why don't the open sourcers get off their duffs and do the same?

[Moochy]

120. ATI drivers headaches

Hey Hypnotoad, I have to agree with your point about ATI drivers headaches.
They have really some poor communications about bugs and known issues, and are downright slow to fix stuff.

I switched back to ATI from NVIDIA on this round of new graphics card updates, having researched the drivers and surmising that they had stabilized. Boy what a mistake..

I agree with the consensus upthread that linux is blocked by the not-ready-for-consumer-market installers.
That being said it's a non-problem for most linux desktop backers.

If I didnt have a videogames addiction, I'd switch to linux, since firefox now rocks on all platforms. ;-)

[Deja Q]

8. Here are my impressions...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=5252661&mesg_id=5252661

I did a reformat of my system. For, every time I've tried Microsoft's built-in upgrade route for their previous "operating systems", things end up far worse compared to simply doing a data backup, wipe, fresh install in the first place.

[brokensymmetry]

9. So, what did you like most?

Are there a few features you can mention?

[rman]

13. i suppose he would have mentioned significant features if there are any

[William769]

29. Software intergration

One example is, if you wnated to burn a DVD on your DVD burner you would have to have special software. Windows Vista can do that now right from windows.

[rman]

34. if that's all, doesn't justify the memory use

[Occulus]

87. I realize that's an "improvement" over XP, but

OTHER operating systems (coughlinuxcough) have been able to do exactly that for... well, quite a while now. Like, years.

[Toots]

11. All I can say is "Put lipstick on a pig but it is still a pig"

I love my Mac and will hopefully never go back to PC and Windoze.

[banana republican]

19. I have 3 systems

Linux Windoze & a Mac. Ineed two of those of business reasons and Linux because I browse the web (it is much more secure from what I understand).

The only reason I use windoze is becaue of the applications that require it...

Otherwise it is an over priced hack of Linux.

[madokie]

12. I have the link to it saved and was wondering if I should try it

I kinda like playing close to the edge but I will have to wait until the start of next week to do it. My question to you is can you restore your computer back to xp if you want or decide to latter? Does it seem to be any faster than xp? Do you still have the dos window? I started off back in the days of dos 3.1 and it took me a while to warm up to windows to begin with.
peace

[Deja Q]

15. Yes. When I installed, it

gave the option to move my existing installation.

If you boot via an XP rescue disc and get to a prompt, you can delete the WINDOWS directory and THEN rename "WINDOWS.OLD" back to "WINDOWS". I haven't tried that yet, but I will assume Microsoft ensured that component, if nothing else, would work properly. Especially that it's a public beta, many people don't have the equipment or money to buy more equipment.

[madokie]

26. Thanks, Camping this weekend so I'll have to wait until monday

if it is still available then.

[William769]

32. I believe the link will still be available, But it has been taken down

From public use (because of such high demand). Did you get your registration code yet?

[madokie]

39. whatever was in the microsoft email

:shrug: I don't know, where do I look to see?

[William769]

41. If you got an e-mail from Microsft with the links

Your registration code is at the very bottom, so you should be ok. :)

[madokie]

78. I just sent the link to my neighbor so it probably won't work for him

without it, bummer. I have bookmarked this so I can come back next week, camping this weekend. Thanks for the help
peace
:hi:

[William769]

81. Anytime.

:hi:

[acmejack]

47. Giving away your age, MO!

Me too, I didn't want to go to windows, when I did I went right to NT3.51 work had a lot to do with that. I was in the NT support group for a long time, I still have new copies of NT4.0 & 2000 floating around here! I am really getting quite interested in Ubuntu, have you checked it out at all? It is really quite interesting!

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. What makes it better than XP?

Obviously the memory requirements make it worse, but the might cut that down to, say, 50M (wow, that would be only 3 times as much as XP). So what are the big advantages?

[William769]

33. Depends on what your looking for.

I do alot of video & picture editing, Windows Vista is a dream come true for me.

There are 5 different versions of Windows Vista, you get the one that best suits you. I went with the ultimate because thats what I need. I am sure the basic one is not near as memory intensive.

[onehandle]

42. There's one version of Mac OSX.

And it's done "video & picture editing" for years. Decades including the old systems.

Microsoft has been running ads pushing XP's creative "muscle" for years.

And now Longhorn is years overdue.

I admire a Window's users patience.

[William769]

45. What can I say

I have been there since the very beginning (Oh so long ago!). The main reason I stayed with Windows at home over the years was because of windows at work. Not a excuse but it's the only one I got.

[onehandle]

48. Yeah, I understand. nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

61. So it's a specialist operating system, then?

That's good for that market. I hope they continue to sell XP and support it for many years.

[rman]

62. How's Vista better than XP with video & picture editing?

[William769]

65. With your posts in this thread, why would you care?

[rman]

79. I'm curious if there are rational arguments why Vista is any good,

rather then "wow" and "dream come true".

I'm sure others are as well.

[NYC Liberal]

82. I am, too. So far in this thread I haven't seen any reasons why

Vista is so "great." All I've seen are either "it sucks" or "it's amazing."

[rman]

83. Well, there's a rational behind "it sucks"

It uses anywhere from 2 to 4 times as much memory (RAM) as XP.

It requires an up-to date 3D graphics card, the kind that is normally purchased for fancy 3D games. A good modern 3D card needed for optimal performance costs as much as a complete PC (without a fancy 3D card of course).

[William769]

88. For someone who has never use it to say "it sucks"

:eyes: And just to stop the misinformation going on here. You can buy a 256 meg graphics card at Best Buy for $69.95. "A good modern 3D card needed for optimal performance costs as much as a complete PC (without a fancy 3D card of course)." Again :eyes:

[rman]

96. $70 bucks will get you a piece of crap

And i don't need to use Vista in order to know the system requirements.

[William769]

99. You lost your argument on your very first post in this thread.

[jayfish]

112. Pure Crap.

It uses 2 to 4 times as much memory becasue it's beta code. You don't need an quad-SLI setup to run aero. You need is a DX9 compliant card. Like this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814164014

Jay

[hobbit709]

44. I won't even use XP

The tiered pricing structure microshaft wants to set up sounds like a good way to separate suckers from their money. bottom tier you don't get a lot of features, you want more features pay more.
The system requirements suck- I can't see any reason to need 512 Megs and 128 megs video just to get to the desktop. Since I don't trust MS on security issues I don't use Internet Exploder or Lookout!, I have tried all of MS's applications and have never been satisfied with any of them. There are always cheaper and better alternatives out there. The main problem with Microshaft's stuff is that they always want it to do every possible conceivable thing-unfortunately that results in major bloatware.
I'd rather have an application that does the 20 things I want well than something that does the 20 plus 990 more that I don't need and only does them all half-assed. WordPerfect is a much better office application to me than Word. The forms I generated in WP only take up 15K of space, the EXACT same form as a Word document takes up 34K. What takes up the extra space I don't know since it looks identical when printed. Its not that I'm worried about disk space, I have plenty-out of 4 machines I'm running the minimum disk space available is 200 gigs. 95% of the things I do works as well in Linux as in Windoze. The other 5% I could learn to do in Linux once I get the time.

[RebelOne]

103. I agree with you about WordPerfect.

My company used WordPerfect for years, but then switched everyone over to Word. I hate that program. Give me back my WordPerfect!

[MyNameGoesHere]

46. I am sorry you posted this.

the linux/mac rah rah's are going to spout so much shit that the thread will eventually be worthless. I have installed both versions 64/32 bit and i am really waiting for the release. The WINFS file system is worth it for me. I know it uses more system resources but if i wanted a no frills OS that only did a few things i would get a ?????OS. Insert favorite "My OS is better than your OS here"

Oh and BTW for all the "my Windoze crashes all the time", Maybe computers just don't like you.

[onehandle]

52. My abacus has never failed me.

Bead counting Rules! Computers Snooze!

[William769]

55. "Maybe computers just don't like you."

:rofl:

I couldn't agree more! "WINFS file system"

BTW Welcome to DU! :hi:

[MyNameGoesHere]

73. The support for WINFS is available

and it was included in my build (Tech Net DVD) it is really awesome. I am a file junkie and the built in search with extended meta data is making my head spin. So many options this will open up.

[Occulus]

91. I tried to run the Vista update advisor

A box popped up saying "Sorry. You run run setup on Windows XP or Windows Vista."

I'm running XP 64-bit.

:rofl:

Thanks, but I think I'll be staying away from Window$ Vi$ta.

[papau]

102. I'm also running the 64 bit XP - will there ever be a retail version or

is 64 bit Vista the next upgrade?

[rman]

50. There's some talk of "Vista 2D" on the web, not to be found on MS'

website.
It looks like you'll need a 3D graphics card - a modern, fast (quite expensive) 3D card - to run Vista. That's good news for the hardware industry. For many people though it will mean Vista is a no-go.

[William769]

56. For Vista all you need is a

128 meg Graphics card. I had one of those years ago.

[rman]

59. Many people have no need for 3D whatsoever

A 2MB 2D card does suffice for many people, and costs virtually nothing.

128MB is the minimum requirement, 256 is recommended.

[Deja Q]

94. 128MB video card. Not 128MB system RAM...

512MB system RAM minimum, 1GB a realistic minimum... 2GB real-world quantity.

Mac OS X, if it becomes available for Intel boxes (hah!) is an option.

So is FreeBSD, which is the core of OS X - and costs exponentially less.

[acmejack]

104. And freeBSD has very cool T shirts!

Industry leading I would have to say. They have surplanted our beloved Tux, the puffish & the daemon are both classics! And anything with Berkeley in the name has to be OK...

[high density]

129. No, that's for the Aero GUI

Which is an optional component of Windows Vista.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=10

[nebenaube]

51. does it come with an Agent Mike paperclip? n/t

[William769]

57. If it does I have not found it.

[Deja Q]

93. Do you know where to look?

:o

I wouldn't. But you'd have be extremely naive to think it's not there. (Once again, read up on their history... especially latter-day history, but they go a long way back in terms of being power mad control freaks too...)

Once I get time to properly look at running processes and keep an audit log, I might be able to pinpoint such "official spyware" eventually.

[rndmprsn]

53. man you fucked up...

don't you know you CANNOT talk about windows on DU without it turning into a flame war with the linux people...you just can't.

[William769]

58. Hey if they can't take it then fuck them.

There is a reason Windows is on about 90% of the worlds computers.

[HannibalBarca]

66. Perfectly happy with XP

...cant remember it ever fatally crashing, never get a virus etc. Have to laugh at people who roundly condemn it. Also have a mac powerbook, like OSX but I prefer XP, will most likely get Vista when it come out.

[acmejack]

70. Thanks for answering all these questions for us, William.

I personally appreciate your time and patience. You get to Austin, I'll buy you lunch! (If you can catch me to redeem it!;)

[William769]

71. LOL!

Your welcome. I was happy to do it.

[Nordic65]

84. And it's certainly not on merits...

The Windows-empire is built on decades of dirty business shenanigans.

Using Windows is about as exciting as living in a drab east german town in the mid 70's.

[Deja Q]

92. Exactly. I also love one of their earliest pranks:

Now how they tested a BASIC compiler using an emulator...

But how they overcharged their product so grossly (their product was the same price as the Altair hardware; which is the same for Vista Ultimate with many mid-end home PCs of today!), other developers came in, made their own product (which were also less buggy...), and gave it away. That burned Gates' bippy.

Oh, Microsoft was originally called "Micro-Soft".

Microsoft's history is replete with shady dealings and slapdash quality products. And people applaud this company for some bizarre reason. Okay then, I'll do a shit job at work. Let's see how long I remain employed. :eyes:

Never mind QDOS...

[jayfish]

113. Right, Millions Gladly Shell...

out $199.00 for XPPro when they could get linux for free because of dirty business practices. You think if gas was $0.00 a gallon at Citgo, everyone would be lined up at BP to pay $3.00.

Jay

[Deja Q]

89. Microsoft is a shrewd predator. I'll keep this as succinct as I can:

If you ever feel the compulsion to do even a miniscule amount of research, you will read up on any number of gambits Microsoft has pulled; knowing the government would take forever to intercede.

My favorite is the one they got caught for in 1994: They created licensing contracts that compelled hardware vendors to buy a license for every PC BUILT. Not sold. Built. Even if the PC was to be sold with a competing operating system (and in 1994 there were MANY), a Microsoft license had to be bought for that PC. That is sheer thievery on Microsoft's part. They made money for products never sold.

By the time they were caught and sentence passed, it made not a blip of difference.

And that is just one incident. One of many.

Their entire history. You will find Gates to be a far less noble man than the indigent drool over him to be.

[Occulus]

98. Yes, it's called marketing

Ever seen a Windows ad? Yep....

Ever seen a linux ad? Well........ other than print, no.

Linux is FREE, which is a huge, massive step up from Win. Linux is officially unsupported (unless you pay for it), except by other users. That's a big disadvantage. Linux also requires that you actually *gasp* RTFM on occasion, which is a major disadvantage from Win.

Linux places a very great deal more power over the the system itself into the user's hands. I want to be able to examine every line of code runnin on my machine if I so choose; Micro$oft welds the hood shut.

Major bugfixes are addressed by linux users; major bugs are ignored by Micro$oft developers. I could go on and on.

And yes, I've used both. Regularly. If you know what you're doing, Win simply does not compare to lin, period. Aside from games, name a win application, and there's very likely a lin counterpart (that's free and open source to boot).

I only keep using win because I'm a gamer, and there are few games that will run natively in linux. Windows crashes more than lin, but at least the times it does are fairly predictable to me now (example: bittorrent crashes my windows box every time I run it).

Yes, there are reasons windows has the largest user base, and some of those reasons are good, and some of those reasons are bad. YES, there are reasons why linux is installed on a smaller (but growing) number of desktops, and some of those reasons are good, and some of those reasons are bad.

I like lin and Mac better than Win because of their philosophies; I require win because of my activities (gaming). That alone says something about yet other reasons why windows is installed on most desktops: in many cases, it has to be.

If you can make Oblivion run in linux, I will love you forever. :D

[hobbit709]

100. Reason being

its given away preinstalled without any other options from most companies. I use it but I don't have to like it. I started with DOS5 so don't tell me that I don't know enough to hate it. What I hate about the newer windoze is the "I know what's good for you attitute" that's built in. It argues when you don't want to accept their configuration, won't really delete files you want deleted-it just hides them.
If windows is really all that wonderful, why are all these non MS applications out there to clean it up so it'll work better?

[MyNameGoesHere]

106. DOS 5

You lucky. DOS 2was what i started on.

[jayfish]

126. All Of The Non-MS Applications Are Out There Because...

if Microsoft wrote them on their own, they would be sued ceaslessly.

Jay

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

86. Not to mention Mac OS folks...

[ixion]

67. I will never run Vista. Never.

I'm moving to Suse/Redhat and Mac OS. Bye bye M$. :puke:

[natrat]

97. i despise and distrust big corporations including microsoft

[alfredo]

101. From what I read a few days ago I have found that Windows

calls home every day to check to see if you are using registered software. Is there a way to turn that off? Because MS has been cozy with the Junta, I am not sure I would want them to have access to my computer.

[Omphaloskepsis]

127. Talking about this?

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=32280

I think it was on slashdot or digg. A way to disable the phoning home, that is. You just had to rename one file.

[alfredo]

128. Good to see it can disabled. That probably puts you in

violation of their end user license. If they find out they will come to your home some late night and piss in your birdbath.

[BlooInBloo]

107. ROFL! What IS vista? Just a new gui? They took the filesystem out...

... which was supposed to be the flapship innovation...

[survivor999]

114. Hasta la VISTA, baby!

:)

[Beelzebud]

108. My god you Linux/Mac users are some insecure people...

jesus goddamn christ you sound like your girlfriends were insulted.

[DainBramaged]

117. Good whine from them should come from grapes

It's the microchip on their shoulder routine that pisses me off. Every operating system is good, and if you think putting down Windows, no matter what flavor, is cute, why isn't Liudrek used in the schools?

[high density]

121. They're all stuck in 1996 with Win 3.1 or Win 95 I guess.

It's nonsensical really.

[Beelzebud]

123. Ok, I have it installed on my 2nd PC. Where is Windows Explorer?

I know they are getting rid of it, but how do I just access the file system?

[Touchdown]

131. Hmm. 131 posts so far and not one Mac user bashing Vista.

...Yet, no less than 5 Apple hating propagandists have predicted that this will happen. One even lumps in a Linux user with Mac users, which is like lumping communists with liberals. Strange. What else is it like?:think:

Could this be the computer OS fanboy equivelant to Fox's "liberals are smiling with glee that our soldiers are getting killed?" Sure looks like it to me.:rofl:

BTW: Most Mac users don't comment on things we haven't seen. Besides, we don't care what MS does. We're the target suckers of another computer company always improving their OS too. So what's the dif?

[zulchzulu]

133. Being a Mac user who while probably get Vista when it's "stable"...

...I certainly won't being using time on a beta OS that I'm loath to have to use on various IT tasks I do at work...I'll probably insist we stay with Windows 2003 now that all 12,000 patches have been applied and it appears to be working alright...

I find OS X to keep me busy and geeked out enough with Apache, Cold Fusion, PHP and mySQL purring virus-free...

[William769]

135. I guess you had to be the first.

:eyes:

BTW for the most part, we don't know who is using what OS, unless they come right out & said it.

[Touchdown]

138. Really?

What did I say about it?

I can do that too! :eyes:

[The Revolution]

132. I installed it

In order to install, I had to give it a sata raid driver (so it could find the hard drives). It installed ok, but when I try to start it, I get an error about the sata raid driver (something about security catalog). If I tell it to ignore driver certification (or something like that), it will start up to a black screen that says "windows vista beta" at the bottom, but never does anything else.

I found a newer version of my sata raid driver though, and it comes with a security catalog file that wasn't with the old one. I imagine this will fix the problem. Does anybody know how I can install this driver without reinstalling vista? I was just going to format the partition and re-install, but Windows XP isn't letting me do that right now. It claims its in use, but I'm not sure what the problem there is. The RAID is repairing itself, so maybe that's it, but that will take awhile to finish (it said 12 hours a little bit ago, but now it says 2, so hopefully not too long). I probably wait for it to finish in either case, but if I can fix it without formatting and installing, that would be easier :)

[zulchzulu]

134. I suggest you continue banging your head against the wall installing it...

...for hours and hours, thus wasting lots of time.

Kidding...

If an OS has problems installing and finding my volumes or peripherals the first time, it's garbage. Unless MS is paying you to bug hunt, use your time better, imho.

I base this opinion on past battles installing OSs on machines and then noticing I spent multiple hours dealing with the OSs sloppy methodologies.

[The Revolution]

136. Well it is beta :)

I wouldn't be installing it if I didn't want to deal with bugs :)

Though I am somewhat surprised it doesn't handle raid/sata very well. XP didn't either, unless you slipstreamed it to include the drivers it needed. A friend of mine did that for me, and that works really well.