MONICA LEWINSKY WAS AN ADULT.

[dolo amber]

I've already given this the test-run. Its' the only argument you need. :thumbsup: :hi:

[grytpype]

1. If Monica was 16, Clinton would HAVE to resign!

And he would still be in jail.

[Jack Rabbit]

8. If Monica were 16

I would have supported impeaching his ass.

[Rocknrule]

11. What makes you think he'd still be alive to serve jail time?

[savemefromdumbya]

2. Exactly, Foley preyed on young men, many innocent

like a sick vulture

there's a big difference

[XemaSab]

3. With the brain of a stupid 16 year old

:D

[prole_for_peace]

4. and she wasn't prey...

she made the decision and acted on it.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hailtothechimp]

5. Exactly. And anyone who thinks this stops w/ just emails....

is deluding themselves. Ol' Maf54 wasn't just using a cigar, either.

Oh, what will we tell our children? Beyond "Don't grow up to be a House page"

[tuvor]

7. A consenting adult, too.

[dancingme]

9. she was a 22-year-old college graduate

when she started interning at the White House.

[Erika]

10. Pages are teenagers, interns are adults

Republicans can scream as loud as they wish, but truth is truth.

[kaygore]

12. Monica was an adult female, further her mother was proud of her

relationship with Clinton.

[Marr]

13. Clinton was also impeached. The Republicans covered up for Foley.

[stopbush]

15. More importantly, Clinton was ACQUITTED.

[QuestionAll...]

14. this is true, she was an adult

but still very young and impressionable.

she's the one looked at unkindly while the biggest male authority on the planet gets away with jokes about it all.

heh. heh. heh. very funny.

not.

[Warren DeMontague]

17. So, are you the final arbiter of what consenting adult sex is okay, and

what isn't?

How about if you make a specific list of when it's okay for people over the age of 18 to consensually screw each other, and when it isn't.

Because here's the deal: Either you have an age of consent, or you don't. If you accept the logic inherent in having an age of consent, then you have to acknowledge that sometimes adults over that age are going to consent to do things that might piss you off or that you might not like.

To wit, a Lot of people think it should be against the law for consenting adults of the same gender to have sex. A lot of people think it should be against the law for consenting adults to have sex outside of marriage. A lot of people think interracial sex -between consenting adults- should be against the law.

But that's tough. Too bad. Either ALL adults have the right to make their own consensual mistakes, or NONE of us do, and we get to waste our time playing each others' ministry of vice and virtue.

[QuestionAll...]

20. yes, I am.

:sarcasm:

I'm just pointing out the awkward imbalance society judges the sexuality of a man (especially one in power) and a woman. nudge nudge wink wink for the boy, shame for the girl.

That's what I meant. I could give a poop about who sleeps with who, it's none of my business - but the unfair and unequal treatment I consider my business, yes.

[FormerDem06]

21. Plus you also have to remember....

Even if she was an adult, how much consent is there when the most powerful man in the free world decides he wants to stick a macanudo....well you get the point.

Could she really say no? Or would she be ruining her career? You are right, guys are given a pass (and I'm a guy) and girls are shamed. We have one guy here at work who used to be a NFL quarterback (backup I believe) and he's a VP. His conquests are the stuff of funny little stories and the girls he beds are looked at in a poor light. It makes no sense to me, and it never will as a happily married guy.

That being said, I hope that they bury Foley at the bottom of a Swamp in Florida if he did anything to hurt any of those kids. That sickness is incurable in my opinion and I don't understand it to say the least.

[Warren DeMontague]

24. Okay. So, just which adults are allowed to choose who to sleep with

and which ones aren't?

[Warren DeMontague]

23. Again, there isn't any "boy" or "girl".

There are adults.

As for how "society" (a nebulous concept, at best) "judges" anything- -if there is a flimsier windmill to tilt at, I can't think of one, but knock yourself out.

[QuestionAll...]

26. you have totally missed the point.

and proved it at the same time.

"society a nebulous concept and no such thing as different judgements on the sexes."
:rofl:

[Warren DeMontague]

28. Oh, you're having one of *those* discussions.

Rather than putting whole, badly constructed sentences into my mouth, you should save us both the trouble, write your own posts, and then respond to those.

Glad "I" could help prove whatever crucially important point it is you think you're making.

[QuestionAll...]

29. what's your problem?

why so testy?

you can go away now.
but thanks for coming.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. I'm tired of people comparing consenting adult sex acts

to criminal activity.

And if you're worried about "society's" attitudes towards someone like Monica Lewinsky, how does pretending that she -an adult- is some helpless, doe-eyed ingenue who is incapable of making her own responsible decisions about her sex life when faced with the mighty CLENIS help?

That's an extremely reactionary attitude, IMHO.

[susanna]

32. Dang, QuestionAll...

don't know where you're from, but when I hit 18 I knew that my stupidity was my own. Luckily I had parents who prepared me for that point in time, when I couldn't pass it off to being "young and naive." (Therefore, I never got busy with any Presidents.)

I guess my question to you is this: when, exactly, is an adult responsible for their actions? I mean, if not 22, when? Just curious.

[prolesunited]

34. I think for Republicans, that age is about 40

Look at Bush. They excused everything he did up until that point.

[susanna]

35. LOL...touche.

But then again we're talking about Republicans. ;-)

[QuestionAll...]

36. you misunderstand.

or I didn't explain myself clearly.

There is no comparison to what Foley did and what happened with Monica and Bill, just to get that straightened out. Whoever is saying this is full of crap.

but.
there are some very uncomfortable issues with M & B that bother me and it's very related on how people view a man's sexuality compared to a woman's and I don't understand how some people can dismiss this obviousness. It is not a level playing field and never has been. Monica came away from it all with being the evil seductress succubous while Bill can still bring it up with a smirk on his face and get some laughs out of it like any good old boy in the nudge nudge wink wink club.

[susanna]

37. Though I'm sure that's true...

...and I agree with you vis a vis our culture's view of a woman's sexuality (bad) vs. a man's (good), I still do see a difference in this case, as you mention in your first sentence. So we probably are not far apart in our thinking; it's just hard to really understand over a bulletin board. Such is the age of the internets... ;-)

Though some aspects of power/sexuality situations make me intensely uncomfortable, I certainly look to the person(s) involved. With M/B I see something altogether different than what happened here. From many accounts, ML was somewhat of an aggressor, and BC took the bait. Not good.

In this case, a man (MF) who supposedly tried to pass legislation to keep young people safe was preying on them at the self same time. Big difference, to me at least. That is why I find it very hard to ever compare the two.

[roamer65]

16. Great bumpersticker theme...

MONICA WAS OVER 18.

[and-justice-for-all]

18. The Repukes can not hide from this mess...

..I think its the iceing on the November election cake! We really need to use this as ammunition to drive DEMS into office in November, the list of Republican child predators there is not reason why it should not be utilized as firepower.

...You vote for Republicans all you get is warmongering child molesters.

What happend to the list of 100 Republican sex offenders that was posted the other day??

[Dora]

19. Yes, yes, yes! n/t

[leftyladyfrommo]

22. A CONSENTING ADULT! N/T

[Ksec]

25. Theyre trying to put you on defense

Just stay on offense. Keep them on defense. With all this stuff happening, it isnt hard to keep the debate about them .

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. President Andrew Johnson married a girl who was 16.

He was 18 at the time.

And, speaking of "abuse of power", how about Thomas Jefferson's use of Sally Hemmings?

It's not like Bill invenvted anything.

[Imagevision]

31. Repugs crucified Clinton for lying about a BJ, - Hastert guilty for

not exposing Foley hitting on underage boys -- could Hastert have boy-toy emails floating around out there...? (or worse?)

[bridgit]

33. yup, consenting no-less, and with a premeditated plan of action...

hatched all the way back in beverly hills http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/lewprofile.htm