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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 08:13 AM
Original message
The torture of a 15 year old boy at Gitmo...
Upon their return, the MPs uncuffed Omar's arms, pulled them behind his back and recuffed them to his legs, straining them badly at their sockets. At the junction of his arms and legs he was again bolted to the floor and left alone. The degree of pain a human body experiences in this particular "stress position" can quickly lead to delirium, and ultimately to unconsciousness. Before that happened, the MPs returned, forced Omar onto his knees, and cuffed his wrists and ankles together behind his back. This made his body into a kind of bow, his torso convex and rigid, right at the limit of its flexibility. The force of his cuffed wrists straining upward against his cuffed ankles drove his kneecaps into the concrete floor. The guards left.

An hour or two later they came back, checked the tautness of his chains and pushed him over on his stomach. Transfixed in his bonds, Omar toppled like a figurine. Again they left. Many hours had passed since Omar had been taken from his cell. He urinated on himself and on the floor. The MPs returned, mocked him for a while and then poured pine-oil solvent all over his body. Without altering his chains, they began dragging him by his feet through the mixture of urine and pine oil. Because his body had been so tightened, the new motion racked it. The MPs swung him around and around, the piss and solvent washing up into his face. The idea was to use him as a human mop. When the MPs felt they'd successfully pretended to soak up the liquid with his body, they uncuffed him and carried him back to his cell. He was not allowed a change of clothes for two days.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/11128331/follow_omar_khadr_from_an_al_qaeda_childhood_to_a_gitmo_cell/4

Our society doesn't treat children very well. :puke:
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. Makes Me Proud to Be A Murcan!!
I'm particularly proud that the Battlin' Congressional Dems allowed the brave Republicans to do this job that God gave to them.

Mmmm.... Golden Triangle... So Shiny...
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. Goddammit.
If that's not a war crime, I don't know what is.

:cry: :puke:
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classysassy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
53. "Support the troops"
and their lying leader.Those bastards are a disgrace to their uniforms.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
3. Torture-loving Republicans are aroused by that kind of story
:puke:

We need to get out of Iraq this very minute and start reparations.

Would we allow our children to be treated this way? Tortured and raped? I hope to see all those who love torture sent to jail for the rest of their lives.

Unless we clean our own house, America deserves whatever comes our way in the future.
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Kikosexy2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
42. Repub. Foley:...
"Does this make me horny??..."
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Chipper Chat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
4. When I read the book "ROOTS" in the 70s
I was shocked and became nauseous while reading the chapters detailing the treatment of the soon-to-be slaves aboard ship enroute from Africa to the US. I thought to myself: "How could humans treat other humans like this?"
Well....the description above is on par if not worse. It's 2006 and we've regressed back 270 years! Shit.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
5. To the world...I am so sorry
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
6. Good fugging grief n/t
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pansypoo53219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
7. i sure bet
we won his heart and mind.
i an quite sure he won't be a future terrist.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
8. Send it to your neighborhood (rightwing) churches.
If they don't have emails, print it out and send it.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. not to excuse Foley in any way, but this kind of treatment of . . .
a 15-year-old is many levels of magnitude worse than sending raunchy e-mails to someone about the same age, imo . . . shouldn't those responsible receive at least as much condemnation and punishment? . . . or more, even? . . .

just a passing thought . . .
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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. priorities, prorities....
besides, what punishment is Foley getting besides a nice pension?
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
11. John Yoo must have authorized this:
Edited on Mon Oct-02-06 09:07 AM by originalpckelly
I found this audio file on Wikipedia, it is from the highly questionable Revolutionary Communist Party USA. I personally did some digging and have found that on December 1st 2001 this debate really did happen. Also having heard Mr. Yoo speak numerous times before, I am quite familiar with the sound of his voice, and this does sound like it. So in other words I believe and would attest that this is real.

I say that because it is so gruesome that one of the people involved with detainee policy could say something so sick:
"
Cassel: If the President deems that he’s got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person’s child, there is no law that can stop him?
Yoo: No treaty.
Cassel: Also no law by Congress. That is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo.
Yoo: I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that."

Here is the audio:
http://rwor.org/downloads/file_info/download1.php?file=yoo_on_torture.mp3

Even if you think torture is acceptable for detainees, this is not, this is the child of the detainee who has NO INFORMATION!
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
12.  "Just following orders" - "What else could we do?"
Worked for a lot of German sadists.

The people who ordered this, perpetrated this, belong in prison after a fair trial, without torture. Something not allowed the prisoners at Guantamamo or the other concentration camps run by our "heroes".
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
13. Outrageous, as is the general media silence!
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
14. Everyone should read this article.
It is particularly disgusting to me due to the fact that I am now reading a parenting book on 'sons' and much of it is about the psychological role of fathers in a boy's life. Teenage boys usually see their father as the hero, the person who teaches him how to be a man -- at least, if his father operates from apparent strength and not apparent weakness.

Whatever free will that we humans possess is hard-won if we have grown up in a family with hate or extremist ideology. If this boy been just two years younger when he was taken, he might have been seen as the vulnerable child that he was.

Of course, this is inhumane, illegal and sick treatment for anyone, child or adult.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
15. My God, cynatnite, this is an article to keep.It's almost too hard to read
Edited on Mon Oct-02-06 09:25 AM by Judi Lynn
From the artcle:
When Ahmad saw Omar for the first time, in October 2004 -- after the convoluted flight and the numberless delays and checkpoints and searches and phalanxes of armed soldiers, and after being told so many times how evil the detainees were -- his first thought was "He's just a little kid." Omar was gaunt and pale, in a state of everlasting exhaustion, his senses starved by solitude. He had large gunshot-wound scars on his back and chest, and smaller scars over most of his body, several parts of which still held shrapnel.

"You feel a general protectiveness toward these folks just because they're kept without access to anyone," Ahmad says. "And because of Omar's age and lack of world experience, you feel that much more protective. You're conscious of not infantilizing him, but when someone is that young, you would be wrong not to recognize this. Our contention is that children are deserving of special protection -- that's been our legal approach, and it's also been our ethos in our relationship with him."

It took Omar a while to accept that his lawyers were not part of the interrogation system at Guantanamo. Their initial visits, Wilson says, were spent trying to get him to believe in them -- legal strategy was secondary. Gradually, Omar revealed himself to be very shy and curious and, in most ways, still a child, with a child's sweetness and credulous charm. Despite the rate at which his bones were lengthening, isolation and trauma seemed to have preserved him in emotional time. When he learned a new word -- his experiences had left odd gaps in his knowledge -- he tried to use it right away, and as often as possible. When Wilson and Ahmad offered to get him something to read, he asked for coloring books and car magazines and books with photographs of big animals. When they asked him what kind of juice he wanted them to bring back after a break during one meeting, he said, "Just something weird."

Whenever Wilson or Ahmad left a pen on the interview table, Omar would pick it up and start taking it apart and putting it back together again. He always asked to play with Ahmad's digital watch, which had a stopwatch function; he never tired of using it to test his reflexes. He wanted to know all about his lawyers: their ages, their hometowns, their family backgrounds, why they had chosen to become lawyers. The few short letters he was able to write are the work of a child:
To my dear family:- i miss you very much and i hope i can see you in the nearast time . . . don't forgat me from you pray'urs and don't forget to writ me and if ther any problem writ me. your {heart} son: omar {heart} khadr
(snip)
You may remember reading a Republican Congressman wasted the whole world's time lying about the treatment of the children at Guantanamo: he claimed they had nice, brightly lit, clean rooms, and healthy food, and were keeping up with their studies.

Uh, huh. And you know you can trust that nonsense, don't you?

Thanks so much for adding this valuable article to the information fund growing at D.U.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
16. To all the torture apologists out there: What if this were your child?
Who would Jesus torture?
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
55. WWJT? Who would Jesus torture?
INFIDELS! SINNERS! HEATHENS! MUSLIMS! TERRORISTS! and LIBERALS!

Haven't you been reading your King George version of the bible?

Newsprism
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. King George version
From the Book of Rendition, verses 12-15

12 An' the Lord spoke ta me, an' said, "Think of it as just a fraternaty prank, like what you done at Yale with the coat hangers an' stuff".
13 An' I said, "Yeah, that's the ticket."
14 Then the Lord said, "Ta be on the safe side, make sure you get the congress to make it all legal an' stuff"
15 An' I said "Good idea, O Lord!"
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Julius Civitatus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
17. I read the full article last summer. It's MUCH WORSE than that
It is much worse than that little excerpt, and describes harrowing techniques used on prisoners in Guantanamo.

Read the whole thing if you have a chance. Quite an eye-opener.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
18. Keep track of the records of who the torturers are.
Don't let them destroy the records of their identities.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. No doubt you've heard of 1 of Nixon's professional torturers,Dan Mitrione,
but if you haven't, EVERYTHING you will see on him once you start researching will make you ill, I can assure you.

Here's a very tiny look:
THE NEW YORK TIMES, MONDAY, JUNE 11, 1979 A19

Torture’s Teachers
By A.J. Langguth

~snip~
Mr. Mitrione has become notorious throughout Latin America. But few men ever had the chance to sit with him and discuss his rationale for torture. Mr. Hevia had once.

Now, reading Mr. Hevia’s version, which I believe to be accurate, I see that I too had resisted acknowledging how drastically a man’s career can deform him. I was aware that Mr. Mitrione knew of the tortures and condoned them. That was bad enough. I could not believe even worse of a family man. A Midwesterner. An American.

Thanks to Mr. Hevia, I was finally hearing Mr. Mitrione’s true voice:

"When you receive a subject, the first thing to do is to determine his physical state, his degree of resistance, through a medical examination. A premature death means a failure by the technician.

"Another important thing to know is exactly how far you can go given the political situation and the personality of the prisoner. It is very important to know beforehand whether we have the luxury of letting the subject die…

"Before all else, you must be efficient. You must cause only the damage that is strictly necessary, not a bit more. We must control our tempers in any case. You have to act with the efficiency and cleanliness of a surgeon and with the perfection of an artist…

A few months later, Mr. Mitrione paid with his life for those excesses. Five years late, thanks to the effort of such men as former Senator James Abourezk, the police advisory program was finally abolished.
(snip)
http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/langguthleaf.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Torture - as American as apple pie
excerpted from the book
Killing Hope
by William Blum



"The precise pain, in the precise place, in the precise amount, for the desired effect.''

The words of an instructor in the art of torture. The words of Dan Mitrione, the head of the Office of Public Safety (OPS) mission in Montevideo.
Officially, OPS was a division of the Agency for International Development, but the director of OPS in Washington, Byron Engle, was an old CIA hand. His organization maintained a close working relationship with the CIA, and Agency officers often operated abroad under OPS cover, although Mitrione was not one of them.
OPS had been operating formally in Uruguay since 1965, supplying the police with the equipment, the arms, and the training it was created to do. Four years later, when Mitrione arrived, the Uruguayans had a special need for OPS services. The country was in the midst of a long-running economic decline, its once-heralded prosperity and democracy sinking fast toward the level of its South American neighbors. Labor strikes, student demonstrations, and militant street violence had become normal events during the past year, and, most worrisome to the Uruguayan authorities, there were the revolutionaries who called themselves Tupamaros. Perhaps the cleverest, most resourceful and most sophisticated urban guerrillas the world has ever seen, the Tupamaros had a deft touch for capturing the public's imagination with outrageous actions, and winning sympathizers with their Robin Hood philosophy. Their members and secret partisans held key positions in the government, banks, universities, and the professions, as well as in the military and police.
"Unlike other Latin-American guerrilla groups," the New York Times stated in 1970 "the Tupamaros normally avoid bloodshed when possible. They try instead to create embarrassment for the Government and general disorder." A favorite tactic was to raid the files of a private corporation to expose corruption and deceit in high places, or kidnap a prominent figure and try him before a "People's Court". It was heady stuff to choose a public villain whose acts went uncensored by the legislature, the courts and the press, subject him to an informed and uncompromising interrogation, and then publicize the results of the intriguing dialogue. Once they ransacked an exclusive high-class nightclub and scrawled the walls perhaps their most memorable slogan: "O Bailan Todos O No Baila Nadie -- Either everyone dances or no one dances."
Dan Mitrione did not introduce the practice of torturing political prisoners to Uruguay It had been perpetrated by the police at times from at least the early 1960s. However, in surprising interview given to a leading Brazilian newspaper in 1970, the former Uruguayan Chief of Police Intelligence, Alejandro Otero, declared that US advisers, and in particular Mitrione, had instituted torture as a more routine measure; to the means of inflicting pain they had added scientific refinement; and to that a psychology to create despair, such as playing a tape in the next room of women and children screaming and telling the prisoners that it was his family being tortured.
(snip/...)
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/Uruguay_KH.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




1970 Frank Sinatra and Jerry Lewis perform a benefit at Civic Hall to benefit the children of former police chief Dan Mitrione.
http://www.mrlinfo.org/history/bicentimeline/timeline4.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


When he was killed, Richard Nixon had his body returned to his hometown, and sent his son-in-law, David Eisenhower to attend the funeral, and his press secretary Ron Ziegler, and William Rogers, Sec. of State.

Wikipedia look at Mitrione, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Mitrione

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


He was also a childhood friend of Jim Jones, of "Jonestown" in Guyana.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/jonestown/connections_5.html
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #26
33. I keep telling people that Argentina and Uruguay are the best parallels
to our current situation, NOT Nazi Germany.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. There's gotta be a reason U.S. Americans have NEVER been told
about history made in Latin America and the Caribbean in the last 40, 50 years.

Finding out about it is something you literally have to undertake personally. As you can see, many would be happy as clams simply living on the propaganda which has been handed them throughout their lives, instead!

They'll even fight you if you try to get them to think about it, too. Sheesh!
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. It's worse than that--I recall Reader's Digest articles in which
Mitrione was portrayed as a poor innocent USAID official who had been murdered by the big bad Tupamaros.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. Apparently the truth is what the right-wing tells us it is!
That's really about the lowest, nastiest lie I've ever heard!

God, they are a dirty bunch.

Thanks for the info.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #18
31. We must remember and like Simon Wiesenthal, bring them to justice
even if it takes until they are old doddering men and women. And I am talking about Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Gonzales, Yoo, and on down.

This may not stand.
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19jet54 Donating Member (737 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
19. Sad :(
A Conservative & Liberal alike will distort the facts to promote their agenda. A person, who follows the truth, with no pre-conceived ideas, and lets the facts fall where they may, is by definition a Moderate. A fool believes everything he hears, the wise man sees the need for proof.

A 15 year old boy, like a 35 year old soldier, will kill you just as quickly? That being said, torture is another issue altogether! The president sets the agenda, the generals and officers issue the orders, the soldiers follow the orders. If this story is true, the 15 year old boy is not the one who needs to be put on a leash? Vote balance of power!!!!
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Welcome to DU!
:hi:

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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
21. How does this NOT make them hate us even more?
The reason why the Junta is so desperately afraid to allow these people fundamental civil rights is because, if they ever get free and are able to tell tales of what happened to them.... God help us all.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
22. I am crying...
For this poor boy,
For all the unjustly slain, tortured and abused,
For what my country has become.

God, please deliver us from those evil people in power who are destroying our country.
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
56. Right there with you...
President Bush and Donald Rumsfeld MUST be tried for War Crimes. This is so unAmerican, I can't believe it.
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lisby Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
23. These kinds of compression and stretching tortures
were used in medieval dungeons. They can lead to lifelong crippling, as well as death, and the pain is extraordinary. I spent the entire decade of the 1980s reading Amnesty International case histories and writing letters to tin-pot dictators and such to try to stop some of this, including all the American-I'm-free outrage I could muster. What the fuck have we come to? Or has it always secretly been this way and now we're seeing it for the first time?

I feel so sad.

Lisby
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #23
34. Thanks, Lisby.
Thank you for your important work in the 80`s.

While sorting through a book lot, I found an older book on torture techniques, complete with photographs. To this day, I can remember how sick I felt after learning about some of the madmen this world has produced. Thank goodness for organizations such as Amnesty International.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
24. Many Americans have been conditioned to accept this kind of thing.
Edited on Mon Oct-02-06 10:30 AM by Gregorian
From John Wayne to Survivor.

Get rid of the Gaffawing Old Paedo's control over the FCC, and make love ok, and hate and violence not ok. And get the media back.

Although I suspect it goes much deeper than that. I was always kind and careful. But judging on where I now live, these goons have never had a shred of care. Saturday started deer killing season. And everyone has a gun. Guns shooting from cars, out in my backyard. I've had to shoo one away. I can't believe it, he's the first one ever that I've told to leave that didn't look at me like some angry animal, and not leave. He left! Wow. But the empty McDonald's meal containers, empty cases of beer, and trash simply tossed from truck windows is evidence that this is a country of foul creatures who could care less. And that has to change.

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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
25. I`m searching for some words here....
Heinous, sickening, barbaric.

Who in hell dreams up these tactics? A couple low-level bad apples? I think not. Certainly nobody in the normal range.

The citizens in this country who blindly condone torture have done more harm to this country than anything any terrorist could ever do.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. The Pentagon.
That's what they do all day. With billions of our dollars.

Instead of having health care, we have THE PENTAGON.

As far as I'm concerned we could totally eliminate it. Think of the country we'd have.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
28. K&R (nt)
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
29. If the Dem party as a whole had any spine or sense or heart,
they would be jumping up and down and screaming stories like these from the rooftops, and to those who yammer on about "being tough on terror," to repeat the figure of the overhwhelming majority of detainees being poor shlubs who were caught up in dragnets and who are guilty of nothing but being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I strongly suspect that racism is at work here. Would the world remain silent if a blonde and blue-eyed 15-year-old were being tortured like that?
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ArmchairMeme Donating Member (390 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
30. Torture at any age is wrong
We also need to keep in the forefront the recent legislation passed by both the House and Senate approving of the torture. Not only approving of it but giving the *Bush administration the choice to torture in whatever way they choose. Not only the right to choose but TO BE RETROACTIVELY DONE LAWFULLY!!!!!

It is wrong when it done. It is wrong to condone it. It is wrong the make it legal.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
32. God help us. I wonder if they really think this will get them useful intel
Doesn't sound like an interrogation to me.
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
37. Oh God.
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woodsgirl Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. Lookin'
at Montel Williams this morning, feeling kind of bad, don't
usually watch Montel...it was about the three strikes and you
are out law. Poor black people can go to jail for life for
writing bad checks. Rep. Foley gets a pension check from our
tax dollars. Every senator who voted to torture gets that same
pension check. We know they should all be tried at the Hague.
People who are paying attention know the war in Iraq was on
faulty intelligence...the torture bill violates the Geneva
convention. The patriot bill violates the constitution. Think
any of them will go to jail?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
38. from the article

There is no scientific evidence that such coercion is better than any other kind of interrogation; it is probably worse. SERE techniques were not designed to be used in the real world; they were designed to test the psychic endurance of Air Force pilots. When the FBI sent some of its best counterterrorism agents to Guantanamo soon after the camps opened, the agents chose to use what is known as rapport-based interrogation, which apparently worked. The FBI agents found the coercive tactics used by military intelligence both disgusting and stupid: The abusive treatment instantly destabilized detainees, making the information they provided unreliable as intelligence and useless in court.


There is no purpose to their cruelty but cruelty.


NOT.IN.MY.NAME! :cry:
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
40. Remember that these soldiers will be your future friends and neighbors
and they will also be the ones that shoot you when you protest or demonstrate about what our elected leaders do and the policies they make. It's not funny anymore!

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IWantAChange Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
43. Warning - Warning
Dubyha's torture and detention legislation allows him to determine who is a threat - can American citizens be next for this kind of treatment???
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
44. Congrats assh*les if he wasn't a terrorist before
Edited on Mon Oct-02-06 11:48 AM by YOY
You've made a true blue 'murka hater out of him by now. Him and a buttload of his family and friends...
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
45. As an American citizen who believes the habeus
Edited on Mon Oct-02-06 11:51 AM by truedelphi
corpeus removal is so they can silence the opposition here in the USA, I wonder if other Du'ers are thinking 1)Hmm, I should buy a gun
2) some cyanide tabs might be a good idea.

I do not want to ever end up in the hands of these monsters.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
46. I like this passage:
For Rick Wilson and Muneer Ahmad, this nasty truth led to an unnerving conclusion: After the invasion of Afghanistan, the Bush administration effectively kidnapped hundreds of innocent people because they looked like Arabs and shipped them to a detention facility designed to torture them nonstop and in perpetuity. If the president were tried in the Hague, the prosecution would have an easy case.



We need to find a way to see that this happens ASAP
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
47. That's what they have in mind for all our fetuses.
Edited on Mon Oct-02-06 11:58 AM by lumberjack_jeff
It's a good thing that the CIA employees who did/ordered/supervised this now all have immunity for it.

Thank God they're protecting our freedom. :sarcasm:
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peabody71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
48. Everyone in the Media Ignoring this should be treated like this!!!
I am so desperately outraged I cannot put it into words.
NOT IN MY NAME!!!!!
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
49. I feel ill/nt
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
50. It's time to convene an international tribunal
If Bush and his fellow thugs cannot be held responsible for their crimes in federal court, then justice must be sought elsewhere.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 01:57 PM
Original message
Hear hear.
America is screaming for help here people!
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. yup!
Edited on Mon Oct-02-06 01:58 PM by nam78_two
:thumbsup:
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
52. Why Was This Not Read From Floor of Senate Before The Vote...
on detainees and creation of military commissions that did away with the right to habeas corpus?

Who could have heard this single account, which is not the worst reported, but definitely makes the point. No sane individual can read this account and not be affected, and not be heartbroken over what we have allowed Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice and the NeoCons to do to others using our good name and reputation.

Torture is not a partisan issue -- IT IS WRONG. PERIOD.

I have read for calls to have Bush prosecuted for war crimes, and just filed them away as virtually impossible. Well, with the information beginning to leak out, and which will come out once a Democratically Elected Majority of the House uses its subpoena power to investigate these allegations, I have changed my mind. I think there is a fair chance that Bush will be charged with war crimes.

It is horrific. It is so ineffective. It is so unnecessary. It is WRONG.

I am so disappointed that our country has allowed these people to do this in our name. I think the damage will be permanent. We will live with it like Germany has had to do with Hitler.

The sooner we right the ship, the sooner we can begin to repair damage that has been wrought.
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don954 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
54. the most important part..
". If the president were tried in the Hague, the prosecution would have an easy case."

no shit Sherlock!
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
57. Thank you, cynatnite
n/t
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
58. Thank you, very much to the point.
k&r
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Timbuk3 Donating Member (727 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
60. Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick!
Edited on Mon Oct-02-06 08:30 PM by Timbuk3
This is NO DIFFERENT from the Nazi's experiments on human beings. NO DIFFERENT. They did the SAME kinds of things to learn how to help their pilots survive crashes in cold water. I just saw this at the holocaust museum in DC!

This is the next paragraph after your C&P:

The design of Omar Khadr's life at Guantanamo Bay apparently began as a theory in the minds of Air Force researchers. After the Korean War, the Air Force created a program called SERE -- Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape -- to help captured pilots resist interrogation. SERE's founders wanted to know what kind of torture was most destructive to the human psyche so that they could train pilots to withstand it. In experiments, they held subjects in dummy POW camps and had them starved, stripped naked and partially drowned. Administrators carefully noted the subjects' reactions, often measuring the levels of stress hormones in their blood.


It is absolutely unbelievable that congress passed that heinous law doing away with habeus corpus. THEY REPRESENT US! WE SUPPORT THIS with our silence!
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
61. Imagine if CNN cared as much about
this as some teenagers getting sexual e-mails. It's doesn't even compare. I can only have so much outrage. And since reading this (I posted on it last month) it has stayed with me and the horror of what happened last week is still happening and will still happen. I imagine the pages on the hill will be fine.
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blarbushie Donating Member (162 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
62. The Torture Party
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
63. Time to mop up the MP's. Get those thugs, and lock them up.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
64. I will fight these son of a bitches with my last breath!
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-02-06 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
65. This Is So Un-American Please Someone ARREST These Beasts
Edited on Mon Oct-02-06 09:58 PM by Amonester

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