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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 11:46 AM
Original message
Friendly advice for Foley-Hastert watchers
Don't count the chickenhawks before they hatch. This whole thing could turn in an unexpected direction at any moment.

Obviously the story has yet to be fully reported. All the more reason to keep hoping for the best while expecting the worst. I'm already sensing something turning in the air.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. "something turning"? Care to elaborate?
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Remember Rathergate?
Edited on Thu Oct-05-06 01:09 PM by BurtWorm
I'm getting a strange feeling about what I've been reading today, starting with the outing of the 21 year old ex-page from Oklahoma whose IM exchanges with Foley on ABC raised so many eyebrows. If he was 18 when he received those (in 2003), he was not exactly a child, which puts them in a whole different light.

There may be other pages who were younger than this guy with whom Foley was having IM sex. Unless they were *really* young (14, 15, 16) and really didn't want his attention, I'm not sure how much *there* is there. This might have all been legal behavior, slimy or not. I feel it's wise to wait until more evidence of something truly illegal surfaces (statutory rape, sexual harrassment) before assuming that Foley's private behavior is my business.

I also think we don't really know how to talk about what he was doing because we don't have all the facts. It's clear this isn't a case of pedophilia, which would involve prepubescent children. Sexual predation? Is that against the law? There just isn't enough information to say conclusively that Foley was up to something illegal. Immoral? I don't know. I need more facts.

I do have to note that Foley resigned in record time after the first revelation of his trouble with pages came out. Is that a sign of guilt? It certainly seems like it, but who can say for sure, besides Foley and any hypothetical victims? Maybe this was a guy who really could not deal with being out of the closet.

Now turning our attention to Hastert, et al., I also have to note that Foley's behavior had been "reported" to the leadership for years. *Someone* thought *something* reportable was up with Foley and the pages. To tell you the truth, if I was given the e-mail that was first reported, the one the page said was "sick, sick, sick, sick, sick," I would have (in fact DID have) trouble seeing anything "wrong" with it. And yet...knowing that Foley had a taste for the young 'uns, you would think, should have been enough to suggest to someone in leadership that, at the very least, a potential political problem might surface out of this. You'd think they'd want to make sure Foley wasn't pursuing ex-pages who didn't want to be pursued, or be certain he wasn't making a habit of schtupping active-duty ones. And it seems clear that they didn't take even those steps.

And yet...on the other hand...if Foley's behavior was not illegal and only immoral in the eye of the beholder, isn't it ultimately moot whether or not Hastert et al. took the proper steps to make sure it was or wasn't illegal or immoral?

I don't know. I'm nervous that the media will suddenly conclude that Hastert is off the hook because there's not enough substance to the charges against Foley. Then they could turn their gaze on who was behind this leak and dig up a Democrat somewhere to pin the blame on. Then what has been till now a story about Republican hypocrisy, incompetence and corruption will suddenly turn into one about Democratic reaching and doing anything (except something principled) to get back into power. If Foley were a Democrat, of course, we'd be subject to months of stories with no substance. But Foley's not a Democrat.

Finally, I think it's dangerous for Democrats to keep playing up sexual predation and Foley's danger to "children." This is really about the GOP's utter hypocrisy as the "Family Values" party. The ones who should have the most problem with Foley's behavior and Hastert's failure to take it seriously are the authoritarians on the extreme right who form the GOP's voter base. But there's some evidence that a lot of them simply don't care about this, hypocritically enough. To them, Nancy Pelosi's scariness is more of a concern than Denny Hastert's hypocrisy. If that contingent is large enough in enough key districts...well, you can finish the horrible thought, I'm sure.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I appreciate the lengthy response
I guess I was focusing on the part that is true: Foley has been sneaking around the page program for so many years and clearly he has a problem there. The other part of it that smells is the age and power differential - that's got the ick factor for everyone imho.

I'm going to make a guess that there's a minor who's going to come forward.

I agree with your analysis that it is the hypocrisy we need to focus on. I also believe there's a fire there with the smoke that keeps blowing around Hastert: he knew about Foley. He knews years ago and he did nothing.

Lastly, my "bad feelings" revolve around the Dem that is going to be exposed. I'm waiting for that one. It's gotta be a tit for tat. There's a Dem going down and I'm waiting nervously for that.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Ick is right.
He has a boyfriend back home, for Christ's sake. And aren't there any grown ups in DC he could have hooked up with? It's difficult not to think that his devotion to the pages was sexually self-serving.

Also, if he did try to schtupp the youngest ones, there are laws against that in DC, I believe. So it may turn out he's done something illegal after all. I'm just not holding my breath until they come up with something.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
2. yes... I don't know if it is inate pessimissm (realism), instinct, or
some other underlying vibe... but I am tending to brace myself for something unpleasant...
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
3. Burt---don't bring me Down!!!
:+
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. except Foley resigned and his seat is gone
Edited on Thu Oct-05-06 01:10 PM by LSK
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. That is certainly the best news out of the whole business so far.
I'd love to see better news, like danger to the leadership, but I'm counseling myself not to count on there being any.
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BeachBuckeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. I completely agree
How many times has the Left fallen for a sensational story only to be disappointed when nothing of substance ever happens. Remember Karl Rove?
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