The Jordan Edmund IMs ARE fake.

[Rockstone]

get it?

This is the deceptive offense. They were trying to retroactively "Dan Rather" the story.

So they day it broke, they got this guy to send fake IMs to Brian Ross and then pull the "prank" meme out after he took the bait.

Sophisticated attack on:
- Idea of Foley even being guilty (too late though, the plan didn't come together quickly enough)
- Credibility of Brian ROss and ABC
- Democrats for "playing dirty politics"
- It muddies the water so noone knows what's really real - which IMs and which claims

This is SOP folks. THis was Roves genius stroke, but it was TOO LATE. THe story got up and ran away before his lies could reform the reality of it.

[NVMojo]

1. did something happen that I missed?

[Rex]

2. Roves genius stroke? Foley up and quit before the paint dried.

Rove should have stayed under that plane tire, IMO. Was a far better move.

[Hugin]

4. "So fast he left a spot shadow"...

Okay... So Pitt made me laugh.

:D

[Rex]

8. Oh that one IS a keeper!

I did the same thing --->> :rofl:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

3. WTF? Are you talking about? Links? Explanation?

:shrug:

[Rockstone]

6. Read the latest bit of denial the right are being fed

http://www.drudgereport.com/page.htm

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

14. BWAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!!

It's a Drudge Report "world exclusive." In other words, only slightly less accurate than the National Enquirer. I suggest you start reading the real news.

[Fleshdancer]

17. I do believe you just insulted the National Enquirer

:D

[Fleshdancer]

15. ah...a Drudge "exclusive"

that explain everything.

[chat_noir]

66. no need to click on Drudge link

[WilliamPitt]

5. Um...

Help?

[Rockstone]

24. The suggestion is that

they faked a very lurid IM session and sent it to brian ross the day it broke.

They waited for Ross to "take the bait", then use it to discredit him, the democrats and muddy the water about what is real.

Pugs will claim it was just the original emails and all the IMs are fake.

So they could be ONE fake IMs session submitted for real for the purpose of discrediting all the IMs, done by this Edmund guy as a saving throw for the party.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. Hmmm

So Foley admits he is a drunken gay pedaphile who was diddled by his priest over a fake instant message.


I can't imagine what he would cop to if it was real.

[uppityperson]

50. Very good!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Rockstone]

80. by "they"

I actually meant whoever spready the "prank" idea, not Foley and the page.

The speculation was that they were just faked in a text editor. But now other pages have said it was no prank, so there is no working theory remaining.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

7. yeah right.. thanks for your concern, rimjob. BWAAAAAHAHAH

nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. That's Not How I Understand It.

The instant message is authentic. It's a conversation between Mark Foley and a congressional male page.

What is being suggested is that that the page who was engaging in gay cybersex with Mark Foley is not gay and was pretending to be gay to lead Mr. Foley along. A bunch of Republican male pages wanted to pull a joke on the gay guy (Mark Foley)and it made its way into the press. However you cut it Mark Foley was hitting on kids.

Plus there's a practice and pattern. Foley has hit on many pages... That will come out soon...



Rove's not a genius.

[fishwax]

10. That's exactly how it reads to me too

It doesn't say the IMs weren't really from Foley, just that the page and his friends were pranking Foley by leading him on.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. It Says A Lot About The Republican Male Pages.

The "let's make fun out of the gay guy" routine is so 1950ish...

[fishwax]

25. it certainly does

Very 1950ish ... but sadly, not all that surprising :(

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. It's Sad. It Shows How Little Respect They Had For Him Cuz He's Gay

I read the IM.

I'm not even convinced the kid is not gay.

Another closet case.

[Lex]

12. "However you cut it Mark Foley was hitting on kids."

Exactly.

HIS behavior is the behavior in question--NOT the kids involved!

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

19. Here's my hundred bucks betting that there was more than just cybersex

going on with Foley and some of these teenagers.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. We Know He Has Hit On At Least Three Or Four Now.

We don't know yet if there are more and if he had sexual contact with any of them.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

65. Right. We don't know... yet. I doubt this guy spent over a decade in

Congress, and in the Boy Scouts etc., with his "tastes", and all he did was cybersex.

[high density]

11. Well there's still the issue that HE RESIGNED

Why does an innocent person resign, and then have his lawyer drop the "bombshell" :eyes: that he's gay and was abused by a clergyman?

[RB TexLa]

13. Only fake from one end, says he "goaded an unwitting Foley"

Foley was faking nothing. Doesn't change what his intent was.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. Foley Thought His Underage Male Page Cybersex Partner Was Gay.

Who cares if he was or not.

[blogslut]

16. An elaborate hoax

...perpetrated by a bunch of unlikely teen-aged boys, to take down a congressman....a prank so clever, so well-planned they waited three, long years to swing their master stroke...

Uh huh.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. They Didn't Want To Take Him Down.

They wanted to play a trick on the "gay guy".

How sweet.

[blogslut]

22. If you believe the story

do you? Do you believe second-hand gossip from Drudge that ABC immediately discounts with claims from more pages?

Three More Former Pages Accuse Foley of Online Sexual Approaches

October 05, 2006 5:20 PM

Brian Ross, Rhonda Schwartz & Maddy Sauer Report:

Three more former congressional pages have come forward to reveal what they call "sexual approaches" over the Internet from former Congressman Mark Foley.

The pages served in the classes of 1998, 2000 and 2002. They independently approached ABC News after the Foley resignation through the Brian Ross & the Investigative Team's tip line on ABCNews.com. None wanted their names used because of the sensitive nature of the communications...

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. This Is What I Believe.

I believe Foley has hit on several male pages during his tenure. Whether he had sex with any of them will be revealed in the fullness of time.

In the case of this instant message it's plausible that a male page pretended to be gay to make fun of the "gay guy". I don't see how this is exculpatory.

[Rockstone]

76. Or he's saying that now to hide that he is gay

someone suggested that.

[Beetwasher]

32. Yeah, But What ABC DOESN'T Know, Is That Those Aren't REALLY PAGES

Think about it. It only logical. Karl Rove is 10 steps ahead of us mere mortals.

[Beetwasher]

26. No, They're Real, Except They're Actually FROM THE FUTURE!!

Think about it.

[blogslut]

28. LOL

Quick! To the Delorean!

[BootinUp]

59. lol. n/t

[sabra]

27. that's why Foley begged ABC not to post the messages...

:shrug:

[Lex]

30. It's *Foley's* behavior and intention that are in question, not the kid's.

Simple as that.

[Rockstone]

31. YOU'RE ALL NOT GETTING IT

ONE lurid IM session contrived and subitted to Ross as real, then later revealed to be fake
- muddies the water; it draws ALL the IMs into suspicion
- Dan Rather's the source - attacks the credibiulity if Ross and ABC
- Paints Democrats as playing a dirty trick

[Beetwasher]

33. Dude, YOU Don't Get

If the IM's were from the future, and the pages are clones, then it was always the Tralfamadoran's.

[Rockstone]

35. You don't need to be insulting just because you don't understand

the premise

how about you try to follow the guidelines of the board

[Beetwasher]

37. Insulting??? I'm Just Trying To Help

I'm with you, this whole thing is a set-up, except you're looking in the wrong direction! Look to the skies, brother!

[saracat]

39. Hmm .

Your premise is flawed. This would never have been alklowed to go this far.Rove isn't really all that bright.It is just that many GOP voters were dumbed down and drank the koolaid.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

40. I See

If some fifty year old bald guy on the net says he's a nineteen year old cheerleader and we engage in steamy cybersex I still thought I was having sex with a nineteen year old cheerleader. Foley still thought he was swapping masturbation techniques with an underaged male page.

[The Straight Story]

82. It was the gaynefarians from the planet uranus beaming the IM's down

really, my great uncle's aunt's sister's third cousin was telling me this the other day. And the clincher?.....

MARK FOLEY = ME ROYAL FK an obvious code saying he was royally fucked....

[blogslut]

36. Ah, you know

I tried to introduce the possibility the IMs would be questioned yesterday. However, I never realized that a DUer would link to Drudge as some sort of legitimate source. As was said, ABC says the Drudge report is full of it:

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Amid_questions_ABC_says_messages_couldnt_1005.html

Sources inside ABC News tell RAW STORY that the evidence of widespread misconduct by Foley is overwhelming and rules out the possibility that the entire scandal is based on a prank or a sting.

“This couldn't be a prank," one high-placed insider said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the story. "Everything I've seen indicates that it can't be. Clearly there's been an effort on the part of this gentleman and another blogger...to come back at us.”

“ doesn't say anything about the fact that there's more than one conversation out there,” said another source...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. There's No Mystery.

One of Foley's underage male cybersex partners pretended to be gay.


Foley knew he

-was underage

-and was a page

Whether he's really gay or not is in his heart and loins.

[blogslut]

48. No, we don't know that

We know that two "friends" of the page said this...on Drudge...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. Whether They Are Gay Or Not It's Of No Moment

Foley knew he was having a conversation with a young male page. Everything else is conjecture.

That being said.

I'm not surprised young right wing males want to pull a joke on the "gay guy".

[blogslut]

53. I never brought up the gay thing

I'm questioning whether or not you believe the story on Drudge. You keep saying that the IM to Foley was a prank as if you believe that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

58. This Is What I Believe.

I believe it's conceivable that a right wing Republican page led Foley to believe he was gay so he could make fun of him.

Right wing Republican page- I'll pretend I'm gay and have cybersex with the gay Republican congressman from Florida and show it to my buddies so we can have a laugh at the "gay guy's" expense.

I don't see how this absolves Foley.

If I try to pick up a prostitute and she turns out to be a police decoy I'm still going to the hooskow.

[blogslut]

62. Did you read the Drudge 'story'?

Two "friends" of this page claim it was a prank. Two "unnamed friends". Lots of things are possible within imagination - like imagining that the freeps and wingnuts would try to discredit those former pages. It never occured to you that these two "friends" could be sources that Matt Drudge pulled out of his cavernous ass?

[Rockstone]

92. SOP would be to attack the source

and discredit him. We see the right do that time and time again.

But all we know for fact is that Fooley resigned, so we can presume some guilt there. all the rest is hearsay.

[sutz12]

47. Drudge? Full of it? Say it isn't so!

:sarcasm: As if you didn't know. ;)

[Rockstone]

73. I didn't link to it as a legitimate source

I liked to it as the right's cover story that they were pushing, which I speculated as an elaborate plot. And I linked because the oiriginal responses didn't seem to know what I was referring to. There was a request for background info.

[Rex]

38. Breaking - three more pages come forward to ABC about Foley abuse.

Just up on DU GD, so now what?

[dogday]

41. All Foley wanted to talk about is the Penis

in these emails.....

[Rex]

49. The Clenis or The Penis?

nt

[dogday]

55. Page Penis is not the same as Clenis right?

sorry I get confused :rofl:

[Rex]

57. No no, the Clenis is Bill Clinton's fabled penis.

Page Penis! LOL! It is easy to get confused with these Repukers.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

54. Hmmmm-

"I was seventeen years old and just returned to when Foley began to e-mail me, asking if I had ever seen my page roommates naked and how big their penises were," said the page in the 2002 class.





http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

52. delete because it will go that way anyway

:toast:

[Scout1071]

63. You are an ass for publicizing this kid's name.

I would encourage to delete his name right now.

[LSK]

42. this is satire???

Colbert, is that you?

[johnaries]

43. 3 more Pages have come forward.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/

An online story on the Drudge Report Thursday claimed one set of the sexually explicit instant messages obtained by ABC News was part of a "prank" on the part of the former page, who reportedly says he goaded the congressman into writing the messages.

"This was no prank," said one of the three former pages who talked to ABC News today about his experience with the congressman.

[Rockstone]

69. well there goes my theory

but at the very least, the "prank" spin gives the loyalists a false belief to cling to.

I can't believe they actually tried to pull this excuse off...

I guess my theory was predicated on there being a forthcoming "detail" that discredits the veracity of the IM, like the typewriter font did for the Dan Rather episode. If something like that does show up then my speculated plot becomes interesting again.

[me b zola]

81. So your theory was just as wrong as you were to post the page's name

Please remove the page's name from your post

[johnaries]

95. Actually, they already tried that.

But it hasn't gone anywhere.
http://passionateamerica.blogspot.com/2006/10/foleygate-mark-foley-emails-altered.html

[alcibiades_mystery]

56. Poor Jordan got caught being gay

And now doesn't want his Mommy to know that he likes to..well, you know...once in awhile. It's as simple as that.

If you walked in and caught your friend wearing his wife's underwear, and he said - er, I was only joking for a Halloween costume, would you believe him? Or would you, like normal people, say "This guy is a closet cross-dresser"? You would believe him. It was just a prank...er...er....

Here's something for sale:



You must be joking.

[Rockstone]

68. Yeah that's a good take

that would explain why he would try to say it was a prank.

[blogslut]

70. then change your post

or ask the mods to take that boy's name out

[Rockstone]

72. done - asked the mod to change

[DTinAZ]

79. how about asking them to lock and/or nuke?

this whole misguided topic....

[Rockstone]

83. Actually it is not misguided

Basically if some detail emerges like the typewriter font did in the dan rather incident - some detail intended to show that this particular IM session is not genuine - the theory is going to become interesting again.

The thing is I would expect some dirty trick to be injected by the republicans, but maybe they are "off form" a little bit at the moment.

[Oreo]

60. Change your title!

My God... I didn't think anybody on DU actually even went on Drudge nevermind believing him!

[DefenseLawyer]

64. John Kerry sent the IMs

from his mistress, Alexandra Polier's house- details soon on Drudge!

[DTinAZ]

78. self delete

I think I'll pretty much nuke my own post before a mod gets around to it....I shouldn't have been pointing out a low post count, especially since mine isn't much higher...but then it kinda explains this topic.... ;-)

DT

[Rockstone]

87. please treat other members with respect.

If you had read carefully enough, I never suggested that Foley wasn't a predator, I just a creative speculation on how the right was trying to wiggle out of this.

[Connie_Corleone]

61. Why are you posting the name??

[Scout1071]

67. I asked the OP to delete the kid's name.

And I've asked the mods to delete this thread if the name is not withdrawn. It's just not fair to put this kid's name out there.

[Rockstone]

71. sorry - editing period has expired

I thought now that all the pages are coming out this wasn't an issue anymore. I saw two of them on the news last night.

[DTinAZ]

75. If you can't edit...

...your defective Subject, then contact the admins and ask for help.

DT

[Scout1071]

86. Damn.

I do thank you for trying to edit. I just don't think it's fair to put this kid's name on blast, even if others have reported it.

Sorry I called you an ass upthread.

[DTinAZ]

74. Your Subject line IS FAKE!

The Smudge story doesn't say that the IMs were fake, just that they were leading Foley on. Please be so kind as to change the Subject of this topic, or if you can't edit the first post accordingly.

DT

[Rockstone]

85. "leading foley on" = fake

[DTinAZ]

HUH?

No, "leading him on" doesn't make them fake, it makes them dishonest in intent. In your post, you wrote:

they got this guy to send fake IMs to Brian Ross and then pull the "prank" meme out after he took the bait

At this point, they've not been shown to be "fake IMs" -- this whole idiotic topic needs to be zapped.

DT

[Dr Fate]

77. DEM response: So Foley is taking back his resignation then? Hmmmm???

Note: this is an imaginary DEM response- no DEM has actually gone on TV and said this- I hope they do.

[NNN0LHI]

84. Imagine people passing out BS like this in hopes of protecting a pedophile?

Who would do a thing like that?

Don

[Rockstone]

88. I apologize that this turned into a flame fest

but really you should have attempted to understand my premise

all I saw was a bunch of knee jerk reactions as if I had suggested that Foley is not a predator.

all I suggested was that this laughable "prank" excuse they presented could be part of a more elaborate attack

so why is every one treating me like an enemy?

has anyone yet understood my premise? I feel like I'm being attacked by people who aren't understanding what I suggested. The responses suggest to me that I am not being understood properly.

[DTinAZ]

89. your premise got lost in bad presentation

Your post was so flawed that you sunk your own topic. Maybe you should start over with a new topic and avoid the problems that we're all complaining about?

DT

[Rockstone]

90. How would you state the premise?

[DTinAZ]

91. take the "fake" out of the title and the post

Call them "deceptive" or "dishonest" or "misleading" or whatever, but you used "fake" where it's not necessarily true. You'll note that despite having over 90 responses, the topic doesn't have a single "Vote" -- that should tell you something.

DT

[Rockstone]

93. yeah "Ploy" would have been better

there are multiple possibilities at this point

1. the chat is authentic
2. the kid was playing with the congressman
3. the entire session was created in a text editor (rather gate style)

I find it highly unlikely that both FOley and the kid were joking around. He's already known to be a predator.

I think it is likely the first IM sessions received by Ross are authentic, I would expect the right to attempt to muddy the water in the days following, by making false claims to ABC to try to ruin their credibility - that idea is not far fetched.

[GreenArrow]

94. your premise was clear to me

but it's easier to attack you for linking to Drudge than it is to understand that Drudge is being used to fight the media/perception/propanganda battle.