Where have all the men gone?

[hello_world]

Look closely at the sections of the next two paragraphs that are in bold letters. Also pay attention to the words that are underlined:

Monday morning, Roberts, heavily armed, stormed into the one-room West Nickel Mines Amish School, sent the boys and adults outside and barricaded the entrance with wood before tying up the 10 girls and shooting them, finally turning the gun on himself. In a sordid subplot, investigators say Roberts also brought lubricating jelly and plastic restraints with him, apparently planning to sexually assault the Amish girls. When the police showed up quickly, Roberts reportedly panicked and began executing the girls, then himself.

A student at the school told NBC's "Today" show that Mr. Morrison walked into his classroom, fired a warning shot at the floor and ordered the students to line up at the chalkboard. Then, he tapped each one on the shoulder with his gun, as he told them whether they should go or stay. Only girls were told to stay.

We have two horrific shootings in less than two weeks. That is not surprising, considering the society in which we live. What IS surprising is the lack of courage; the lack of any men.

In both instances the men were removed from the area before the gunman proceeded to kill the women. I don't know if anyone else has caught on to this but it is truly disturbing. My grandfather's generation would not have left the women in either room. His generation would have taken a bullet to the head before they left a woman alone with an armed man to be possibly raped and then killed. Where have all the men gone?

America used to stand for courage. We used to cheer the hero - and there always was a hero. Now the men gladly run away when given the chance to escape. Men of America, we should all be ashamed of our brethren. We should have the courage to stand up and protect the women and children even while facing death ourselves.

These horrific murders are tragically sad. But worse yet, they show the complete demise of our society. When the men stop protecting the women and children, we have lost all values.

Where have all the men gone?

[Rosemary2205]

1. Weren't the Amish merely boys?

asking an Amish boy to disobey a grown man with an arsenal in a heroic attempt to save the girls is asking alot, IMHO.

[Chipper Chat]

2. It was my understanding that there were no men present.

And the Amish don't have telephones.

[CarbonDate]

3. Dave Thompson -- Janitor

Struggled to disarm a gun-wielding student at Weston School in Wisconsin. Managed to wrest the shotgun away from the psychopathic student, but the kid had also brought a side-arm and managed to shoot and kill the principal, John Klang. Klang, however, even after sustaining gun-shot wounds that would eventually kill him, managed to wrest the handgun away from the shooter, 15 year-old Eric Hainstock.

Two real men. One of them died defending his school.

http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=/tct/2006/09/30/0609300067.php

The rest of us are slowly being killed off in Iraq.

Does that answer your question?

[hello_world]

5. kind of..

I did not include that story on purpose because it was different from the other two. In the two stories I listed, the women were purpously seperated from the men and the men did not try to do anything about it.

I agree, that boy was very brave; a hero that I was asking for. She should have a parade in his honor. But it still does not answer the question why men would leave the women and children to die.

[CarbonDate]

14. What boy?

The only boy in this story is the kid who shot his principal. The janitor and the principal were both men. How old are you?

My point was that we need to recognize our heroes more than we need to chastise those who choose not to be heroes. Stories like those of Klang and Thompson do more to inspire acts of heroism than the shame inspired by the lack of heroism in the other shootings.

And women are also perfectly capable of heroism, as well. Again, that would separate the women from the girls as much as Klang and Thompson's actions separated the men from the boys.

Where are the women? Just as relevant a question as where the men are.

[Amonester]

4. Yep. And if the men stood up and fought the crazy nuts...

these little whinny worms would be scared to get punched before they'd have a chance of pulling the trigger, and I bet those silly murdering spree would stop.

Good point. :thumbsup:

Where have all the brave people gone?

[Rosemary2205]

10. This is true.

although I have to admit, when I haul 50# bags of bird seed home I am a bit grateful for the heeman that put it in the car and the other heeman that takes it out. --- not that I couldn't find a heewoman to partner with me to haul it out on our own. :)

BTW -- hear the new phrase in the wake of Cindy Sheehan et al?

"Oh grow some ovaries". :)

[Rosemary2205]

11. This was to "oh give me a break"

I have no idea how it ended up here. Sorry.

[Sapphocrat]

6. Oh, give me a break.

The question is not why you big, strong he-men aren't protecting us silly, little helpless women :eyes: from the maniacs of the world-- the question is how to prevent the maniacs from becoming maniacs in the first place.

You're all for cure, and none for prevention.

What century do you come from? Your attitude is so quaint, it would almost be charming -- if it didn't irritate me so much.

Btw, welcome to DU.

[hello_world]

8. I understand...

I know you ladies love to stick up for yourselves and I admire that. But I am not talking about a debate about whether women can/can not fight like a man. I'm simply asking why men would refuse to protect the women and children. Throughout history men have traditionally been the protectors of their society - whatever it may have been. Is this a trend or just a disturbing couple of incidences?

Thank you for the welcome. I am looking to broading my understanding of why people think and act the way they do.

[Rosemary2205]

12. Women fight a lot worse than men.

Seriously - have you ever heard of a married man winning a fight with his wife? :)

[CarbonDate]

16. Yes, but they call it spousal abuse.

This is probably incredibly inappropriate, but I'm still posting it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Alv120454wk

[Rosemary2205]

17. I didn't mean that kind of fight.

just pointing out that women do indeed know how to stick up for themselves and do it every day.

[Sapphocrat]

15. I already made it clear.

You think the answer is like the climax of a John Wayne movie; I believe the answer is to A) prevent the mental illness that causes such incidents in the first place, and B) empower everyone -- men, women, and children -- to learn how to best assess and disarm such situations to the best of their ability.

I'll bet you believe the death penalty is a deterrent to violent crime, too.

I'd like to know how helpless you think these women and children are. I am one of these women -- and I would rather be dead than go through life believing I need someone to "save" me on the basis of my oh-so-disadvantaged sex.

I'm also sure you have no idea why a sentence like "I know you ladies love to stick up for yourselves and I admire that" makes me want to vomit.

[Irreverend IX]

24. I agree with both of your points...

But the question is: When these attacks on defenseless children occured, why was there so little resistance to the perpetrators by bystanders? It would have been great if the mental health infrastructure existed to nip these nutjobs in the bud, but that's neither here nor there. The speculation focuses on men because they have traditionally been conditioned to protect children in dangerous situations. One wonders why, even with the weight of this social conditioning, no one attacked the assailants in these incidents until it was too late.

Also, martial arts programs that focus entirely on "self-defense" often leave something to be desired IME. Knowing how to respond to an assailant or a threat is great, but one of the most important parts of defense is a strong offense. If someone has spent their combat training in a self-defense-only mindset, it's unlikely that they'll have built up the knowledge and willingness to damage or destroy someone else's body, and that's often what allows you to overcome an assailant when the chips are down.

[Amonester]

13. Good question too! How to prevent the maniacs from becoming

maniacs.

I don't pretend knowing the answer but I'll submit some (that may be wrong).

Education. Parents at home when the maniacs are little kids (or at least one of them present) before they grow older. That would mean a more 'flexible' workplace (or else). But for the parents who don't give a fly about the well being of their kids, or for those who even 'encourage' their kids to become maniacs, I truly don't know what to suggest.

[EFerrari]

7. Welcome to DU, hello_world.

I unfortunately have to agree with you.

[hello_world]

9. Thanks for the welcome

What do you disagree with?

[EFerrari]

19. No, I agree that most people seem to have a problem with

taking simple action. And, I don't know why. It's like they're watching the movie of their life instead of living it.

[Kurovski]

18. Wasn't a principal, or teacher just buried because he kept an armed kid

out of the school in a fight? A kid who fully intended to kill as many as he could. Did you forget him, or did I get that story wrong?

Let's give him some respect.

Edit: Not the Amish school, a different one.

[Kurovski]

20. Here's the story.

MADISON, Wisconsin (Reuters) - A 15-year-old student shot his school's principal in southwestern Wisconsin on Friday after telling another student "you better run," in the second fatal U.S. school shooting this week, authorities said.

The student shot principal John Klang, 49, when confronted, before being subdued by a teacher and other students until police took him into custody. No others were hurt.

Klang, 49, who oversees the Weston school district near Cazenovia, was shot three times and died later at a hospital, authorities said.

http://p6.news.re2.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060930/us_nm/crime_school_dc

[muriel_volestrangler]

21. No men involved in the Amish shooting (apart from the murderer)

and no boys older than 13.

The shooting took place at the one-room West Nickel Mines Amish School, a neat white building set amid green fields, with a square white horse fence around the schoolyard. The school had about 25 to 30 students, ages 6 to 13.

According to investigators, Roberts walked his children to the school bus stop, then backed his truck up to the Amish school, unloaded his weapons and several pieces of lumber, and walked in around 10 a.m. He released about 15 boys, a pregnant woman and three women with babies, Miller said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061002/ap_on_re_us/amish_school_shooting

In your other case, there is mention of a 16 year old boy:

A student at the school told NBC’s “Today” show that Mr. Morrison walked into his classroom, fired a warning shot at the floor and ordered the students to line up at the chalkboard. Then, he tapped each one on the shoulder with his gun, as he told them whether they should go or stay. Only girls were told to stay.

"You could tell that he wanted the females," said the student, Cassidy Grigg, 16.
...
Cassidy Grigg, the student who was told by the gunman to leave, said he protested.

“I told him, ‘I don’t want to leave,’ ” Griggs said on “Today” and ABC’s “Good Morning America.” "He told me that if I didn’t go then he would pretty much kill me."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/28/us/29hostagecnd.html?ex=1160280000&en=0d43be11aab00292&ei=5070

You're asking a 16 year old, unarmed and untrained, to try to take out an armed man - who will almost certainly start shooting, not only at the boy but at the girls too? When the armed police arrive in a hostage situation, they don't leap in with guns blazing - they know that negotiation saves more hostages' lives, in the long run. They got 4 hostages out by negotiation before any shooting started, in the Colorado case.

[mcscajun]

22. There were no Men *at* the school, only women, boys and girls.

The men were all elsewhere, working their fields or their crafts; this is typcial of the hierarchical roles in Amish society.

The men don't have roles in the school.

"Adults" in this story does not equal both women and men.

[mcscajun]

23. Why did I bother? This troll's gone already.

And he was so obvious, I should have checked his grave first. :)

[unhappycamper]

25. Locking.

This member is no longer with us.