On the outing issue.

[Buddyblazon]

Yesterday, got a chance to sit with my friend...and his two Dads.

He's been a close friend since we were 12...over 20 years now. His Dads watched me grow up. Our relationship is pretty much like your relationship with one of your longest and dearest friends parents.

They acted as surrogate parents when I was over at their place when I was a kid...as my Mom became my buddies Female role model in his life. They didn't talk about it when we were kids...but my Mom had several gay friends...so I just kind of knew.

They've been together since Vietnam. That's right. There's a picture of them on the mantle, arm and arm, in their fatigues and helmets...somewhere in Vietnam. They've been together more than twice as long as my parents were together.


I hadn't seen them in a few years. We sit down and start shooting the bull. Eventually we turn to politics. We get on the Foley thing. Somehow we got on the subject of Log-Cabin Republicans...we all settled on the fact that these people must be incredibly self loathing.

I told them about blogactive...how a gay friend of mine turned me on to them when I was living in LA...and how they were preparing to out a prominent Republican official. I explained to them that blogactive was outing politicians that were closeted gay...but pursuing anti-gay agendas.


They was a short silence as they both looked at me for a second....than one of 'em finally said..."fuck 'em. Fuckin' hypocrites.".

And then they both laughed their asses off. This from two men that have been together for over 30 years and aren't allowed to get married.


So...that's how these two gay men felt about it. Obviously it changes from person to person...but these two men in a long stable relationship thought that these closeted gay men voting against their own interests...PURELY FOR POWER REASONS...should be outed.

[TechBear_Seattle]

1. Almost all of my gay friends support the outings

As a gay man myself, I also support them. From what I've seen, the people who most oppose the outings are either straight or trying desperately to appear that way.

[Midlodemocrat]

2. I'm straight and I support the outings 100%.

To me, it's the hypocrisy that is the issue, not their sexuality.

I would also support outing a pro-life maniac who had had an abortion and was keeping it a secret. I would support outing an adulterer who was screaming about 'family values'.

Being gay isn't something to be ashamed of in the first place, so if a lawmaker is going to promote anti-gay legislation and he/she is gay, they are more than fair game.

Everyone deserves equal rights. Everyone.

[TechBear_Seattle]

4. I didn't mean to imply that straight people oppose the outings

Only that I have yet to find any gay person who opposes them. :hi:

[Midlodemocrat]

7. I didn't take it that way at all.

I was just putting in my two cents.

The whole issue galls me frankly. I don't understand why people don't support this 100%.

And, how in God's name could you be a homosexual lawmaker and act against your own best interests? How could you look yourself in the mirror?

I don't get it at all. :hi:

[Buddyblazon]

8. Let me make an attempt...

They do it because they were raised that being gay was bad. Probably in a religious household where they were told that gay people were evil...were going to burn in hell. And now they hate themselves for these "sinful feelings" they have.

The fear of being found out...so...they probably believe if they're loud enough about homosexuality being a sin....that no one will suspect that they themselves are gay.


Then there are probably a few who just want power, power...POWER...and would stop at nothing to get it...including bashing their own beliefs to dupe people into voting for them.

[swimboy]

6. Thanks, Midlo.

:hug: Very well stated. :thumbsup:

[Buddyblazon]

3. I have another very good friend that has had one foot...

in the closet since he told me he was gay when we were 21...and he REALLY struggled with the fact that he was gay. And I did my best all these years to try to keep it on the down low.

His Sister outed him to the rest of the family last year (he's 34 now) and though he was hysterical for about a month it turned out to be a blessing.


But I respected his right to be quiet for all those years. I figured it was none of my business...but I encouraged him to come to grips with himself.


BUT...he wasn't bashing gays...or helping pass legislation that discriminated against the gay community. And he's the one that turned me onto to blogactive...literally in the first few days of the site.

I feel that hypocrisy needs to be exposed. All of my gay friends think that it needs to be exposed. They're all getting a kick out of blogactive.

[radfringe]

5. out the hypocrites

I have no problem with outing hypocrites.

[uppityperson]

10. indeed, this was going to be my comment also.

outing hypocrites is fine with me. Out every sort of hypocrits.

[radfringe]

11. to further the outing of myself

I smoke
I am a carnivore
on occassion I do have a few drinks, and have played slot machines, lottery and poker with friends.

[AlGore-08.com]

9. Why does everybody assume 100% of those outed will actually be gay?

There's no guarantee that blogactive's information is correct unless blogactive actually slept with the Senator in question - - which he didn't claim in the blog post I read.

Blogactive's "accusation" is based on interviewing some men who claim to have slept with the Senator, and he believes that that actually did because they all described his physical attributes the same way. I've got (out and closeted) gay relatives and a lot of (out) gay friends and I cannot tell you how many conversations I have heard about the physical attributes of celebrities, and what their sexual preferences were, and who those celebrities have (theoretically) slept with - - all from people who couldn't possibly have ever met the celebrity in question. I know guys who have followed celebrities into public restrooms just so they could check them out at the urinal and report back on the physical attributes of the celebrity in question. There are lists on the Internet detailing the physical attributes of celebrities.

You don't need to have slept with somebody to know what they look like with their pants off.

Another reason I'm extremely uncomfortable with all this is that it's trial by media - - in this case, trial by blogosphere. What's the difference between us deciding this Senator is guilty of hypocrisy and the media deciding that Gary Condit is a murderer? Morally, nothing.

Then of course there's our hypocrisy in having spent the last fourteen years defending Bill Clinton's sex life as nobody's business but now we're shining a searchlight into everybody else's bedroom. Are we going to be this enthusiastic when somebody leaks another Democratic sex scandal? Are we going to continue to righteously demand that the Democrat be virtually tarred and feathered, or are we going to flip flop back to screaming that the sex lives of public figures should remain private? My money's on the flip flop.

The ends does not justify the means, IMNSHO. And this is not worth loosing the moral high ground over.

[Tyo]

12. I don't see the hypocrisy in defending Bill Clinton

Clinton lied and I can never quite forgive him for that, but at the same time he wasn't out demonizing and trying to make illegal what he himself was and was doing.
In that respect his private life was his private life, in as much as a politician has a private life these days.

Gay Rethugs, on the other hand, are actively supporting the Republican policy of keeping gays second class citizens by denying them the rights and protections granted to straight folks. This is where the hypocrisy is. As far as I'm concerned they have given up their right to privacy.

As for "outing" someone who is not really gay, I think the chances are remote. Most of these pr-cks are only semi-closeted anyway and there are enough of them that there is no point in bothering with on the ones that there is some doubt about.

[AlGore-08.com]

13. For many years, Clinton was accused of sleeping with all kinds of folks

He never slept with. The right even liked to spread the rumor that Clinton and Gore were lovers. (Which - - Hello! - - is one reason that Anne Coulter recently made those stupid jokes about both men being gay.)

Now, if you believed that Clinton and Gore were lovers, it would be easy to claim they were hypocrites based on "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". If you can mentally put yourself back in the 1990s, you can see how that would - - and did - - strike many gays as a step backward and pandering to the right.

(Just for the record, the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" compromise was Clinton's idea. Gore thought it was a mistake, and that they should stand for the principle and if they lost the vote, take the fight up again later.)

[Tyo]

15. Yes, but even the most cursory look at Clinton's "private" life,

not to mention Gore's, would show what an absurd assertion the gay lover thing is and it never in fact got legs as far as I know. I mean with all the investigating going on, if Bill Clinton had ever so much as paricipated in a circle jerk at scout camp it would have come out. In the case of gay Rethugs we are talking about things that are kind of an open secret among their colleagues as well as those at the bars they freqent.

[mondo joe]

14. There's no guarantee in any report.

On almost any subject.

[Buddyblazon]

16. Well...

the Blogactive guy (the one who out's these politicians) welcomes anyone to sue him if they want. He claims because he could be sued for libel that he always has proof beyond a shadow of a doubt.


And Clinton never promised to bring family values back to the whitehouse, and promptly ran on a platform of bashing gays.


THAT's why it's different. If there are a large amount of closeted gays at the top level supporting this vile policy...then yes...they should be shown to hypocrites.

Just the same as Rove saying unflattering things about the religious right.


It's about the hypocrisy...it's not about someone being gay. That is perfectly fine if you want to believe it's about being gay...but that's exactly what the nuttery thinks too.

[mmonk]

17. I guess one can get pleasure from that.

Many posts around here are about outing expressed in general terms but inside the threads it's quickly about outing hypocrits. I've posted enough on the subject since it seems to bounce back and forth between outing and outing hypocrits.