Hats may be needed: What do you do when DU really needs to go underground?

[BelgianMadCow]

Imagine if you will a scenario in which the election is stolen again.

(Disclaimer : I'm not saying it will be, or can be, or that you shouldn't vote. It's the most solemn duty of a citizen imho)

There will be protest, and of course DU will be a part of it. But will the media cover it or will all be made to feel all alone? The net, and photo postings & blogs etc are an antidote to that.

Given the statements on the "enemy" using the net and the internets needing to be curtailed in "dangerous times", and given the excercises already held in cyber "terrorism" control, I think it is possible that sites such as DU get shut down.

Does there exist an alternative way for DUers to contact one another in these circumstances? I'd like to know. I just think there should be a backup system. IF the bravado of Bush*co in the face of likely defeat is more than a pose, I do estimate them to be batshit crazy enough to pull the plug. And the only thing that could stop them at that juncture is an organised movement of the people.

Those of you that wonder about this as well, I encourage to post.
Those who are in the know, if the means are non-net based, and you think it's "safe", please post about them. If they are net-based, it may be better to send me a pm (if you trust me, that's a big if, I know).

PS : this is a post in the spirit of my DU disaster preparedness thread - I think there should also, urgently, be an election preparedness thread with advice on how to get out the vote, how to vote, how to record, where to post abnormalities, etc. ON edit : but as a foreigner, I'm not informed enough to make it myself.

[MADem]

1. I believe there is a Yahoo group, I never bothered to join it though NT

[shadowknows69]

2. I've posted on this subject before

I feel we should exchange real world names and addresses of as many DUers as we trust so we can make some contact with like minded patriots if the worst happens.

[MADem]

7. No offense, but are you mad?

There are crazy bastards out there in the world. While there are plenty of people I trust here to have a rational conversation with, I'm not about to toss my info hither and yon, and once you toss it out, who knows where it might land. That swell person you might trust based on online conversations could be a member of the new and improved Weather Underground, and I don't mean they have a barometer, temperature reader, anomometer, and a yardstick to measure precipitation in their back yard, either!!! Or they could be lousy at computer security, and next thing ya know, your details are spread further than the VA database. And, guilt by association being what it is, you could find one day that Little Chertoff in Jackboots is busting down yer door! Who needs that aggro???

I think we should leave it to people to do what their comfort levels dictate, without outside encouragement, lists, or organized efforts. The folks who go to the Meet Ups often do that anyway, exchanging addresses and phone numbers.

And if the shit hits the fan, to be honest, I'm more worried about the boatload of family members that I'll be busy rounding up and taking care of--and I suspect others will be in the same fix as well.

[BelgianMadCow]

9. I had similar thoughts, but consider this

When you are buying a star, it is likely that your personal info is known to DU. That includes moderators.

So the star you have, already means that you are trusting the people you are discussing with a little bit further than just for discussion.

Just saying.

I think, for the really apocalyptic scenarios (unlikely, not impossible) real world adresses would help a lot. Safe houses so to speak. But it demands a level of trust that one doesn't easily give or receive on a discussion board, that's for sure.

[shadowknows69]

12. You prepare in your way

and I will in mine. Mad? Good possibility but if I am its this administration that has driven me to it and I plan to fight if it comes to it.

[ck4829]

3. DU Panic Room

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DUPanicRoom/

[BelgianMadCow]

6. Thanks for that. BeHereNow is listed as moderator - can he/she confirm

this please?

[BelgianMadCow]

4. My searches don't bring it up yet

but I read that here before, yes.

[w8liftinglady]

5. link to DU panic room

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DUPanicRoom/

[catmandu57]

8. I don't know, but, i hope

someone comes and gets me the hell out of here.

[justinaforjustice]

10. How About Massive Skype Conference Calls?

If all DU'ers downloaded Skype and made their e-mail addresses available, perhaps that would work as an emergency back-up system. Also, a subscription to e-fax might work for sending articles around if other paths are blocked.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

11. Study Your History

Specifically, French partisans during WWII. They had small cells, 4 or 5 people, and nobody knew who was in other cells. Orchestrated from afar using shortwave radios. Any one person captured could only compromise a few.

There will always be ways to contact others -- not necessarily sophisticated, and they will need to be changed often, but there will be ways.

[BelgianMadCow]

14. Sound advice - you made me remember The partisan by Leonard Cohen

When they poured across the border
I was cautioned to surrender,
this I could not do;
I took my gun and vanished.
I have changed my name so often,
I've lost my wife and children
but I have many friends,
and some of them are with me.

An old woman gave us shelter,
kept us hidden in the garret,
then the soldiers came;
she died without a whisper.

There were three of us this morning
I'm the only one this evening
but I must go on;
the frontiers are my prison.

Oh, the wind, the wind is blowing,
through the graves the wind is blowing,
freedom soon will come;
then we'll come from the shadows.

Les Allemands e'taient chez moi, (The Germans were at my home)
ils me dirent, "Signe toi," (They said, "Sign yourself,")
mais je n'ai pas peur; (But I am not afraid)
j'ai repris mon arme. (I have retaken my weapon.)

J'ai change' cent fois de nom, (I have changed names a hundred times)
j'ai perdu femme et enfants (I have lost wife and children)
mais j'ai tant d'amis; (But I have so many friends)
j'ai la France entie`re. (I have all of France)

Un vieil homme dans un grenier (An old man, in an attic)
pour la nuit nous a cache', (Hid us for the night)
les Allemands l'ont pris; (The Germans captured him)
il est mort sans surprise. (He died without surprise.)

Oh, the wind, the wind is blowing,
through the graves the wind is blowing,
freedom soon will come;
then we'll come from the shadows.


PS : who exactly is supposed to orchestrate such cells from afar?

[Geoff R. Casavant]

20. I doubt there will be a top-down hierarchy

These sorts of things usually grow from the bottom up as like-minded citizens find each other, and leaders tend to emerge naturally.

[meldroc]

13. I'd recommend darknets.

This is what I mean by darknet.

In short, private closed networks, using software that uses cryptographic techniques, packet forwarding, etc. to make it difficult to trace individuals reading or writing messages on the network.

Freenet's good for this purpose, though the last time I used it (a couple years ago), it was quite slow.

[BelgianMadCow]

17. hmmm I understand why you suggest it, but

1) this seems to be one of the first logical targets for taking down. From a link to freenet in your wikipedia link :

The same technology which allows the anonymous to communicate with a large group without the publisher's identity being revealed can also allow controversial information such as child pornography and terrorist communications to be shared with anyone. Freenet's founders argue that only with true anonymity comes true freedom of speech, and that what they view as the beneficial uses of Freenet outweigh its negative uses.

Due to the nature of Freenet, a typical user may unknowingly host this sort of information, which may hypothetically make them subject to severe civil and criminal penalties. Freenet attempts to prevent this through "plausible deniability", preventing the user himself/herself from knowing what's on his or her own node and making it difficult to determine if a piece of information is in any given node without causing the distribution of that piece of information throughout the network to change in the process. No court cases have tested any of this to date.

2) I wasn't really looking for a way to communicate with better or total privacy. But the suggestion is worthwile, I have often not sent stuff because I don't want to "endanger" any recipients.

3) P2P and file sharing are controversial. I don't want to start a flame war on this topic here :-)

Thanks anyway!

[meldroc]

18. Still, if DU gets taken down, don't count on the DU Panic Room

It's a simple Yahoo! group, so all the brownshirts have to do is present a takedown order to Yahoo! and it's gone.

Freenet's a lot harder to take down - you can take individual nodes down, but the network stays up.

Another good tool is Tor - it'll help thwart traffic analysis attacks, and encrypt your communications. Among other things, you can make it difficult for the spooks to determine who you're talking to and when, and you can do things like put together a web site without revealing your IP address to users - the Tor onion-routing service acts as a go-between so they don't have to know.

But you do have a point - just the existance of tools like Freenet or Tor on your machine may be incriminating in the eyes of the Gestapo.

I'm wondering if there's tools available to make it easy for users to create covert channels, or conceal information with steganography. Do it right, and as far as the NSA knows, you're surfing at disney.com, but subtle things such as the timing of the packets being sent and received are actually sending a different message.

[Catherine Vincent]

15. As others said, they have the unofficial DU Panic room.

But the setup is not very good. What if everyone gets aol or yahoo messenger and exchange address and add each other to their buddy or contact list?

[mwooldri]

16. I guess I'd better apply for a diplomatic passport.

I guess DU ought to save up some money and invest in some mirroring technology so that the discussions can continue on multiple servers in multiple countries. There is an easy way to do it: use Usetnet technology with multiple news servers - allow free news servers to carry on the discussions that way... that way they will be relatively synchronized with each other and they can share the data with each other - hence allowing for easy mirroring.

I guess also I'd better get set up as an Amateur Radio licensee - utilize packet radio so that data can still go on despite the lack of wires.

At this time, I think that there are enough people fed up with the regime as is and there is a landslide smell in the air. I am worried... but I am optimistic enough that I think that things will come to pass, the military commissions act will be overruled with something that protects Habeas Corpus. The UK, with its unwritten constitution at least respects Habeas Corpus still (thanks to them guys in Magna Carta days).

Mark.

[elehhhhna]

19. The meida can be forced to cover it by

people taking control of the radio & television stations.

There are a lot of frustrated people out there and any more of this nonsense will probably cause a few to pop off. Just saying.