Has anyone heard of 'bridge jumpers' in San Fran? 20/20

[babylonsister]

is doing a segment of a guy who filmed the bridge for 3 years, catching a bunch of people jumping. :wow:

[NMDemDist2]

1. yup, heard about em for years

IIRC aproximately 150 a year take the plunge

:hi:

[babylonsister]

2. Hello there, missing woman!

How are ya?
This special is wild; this guy did a documentary filming the people who jumped and interviewing the families.
I knew it was a 'good' place to jump from, but didn't know about someone documenting it!

[NMDemDist2]

4. my new job has TONS for overtime for the next month

things should calm down then and i'll be around a bit more :hi:

[habitual]

3. yah, he didn't tell them what he stationed his camera

there for. the officials who approved his project didn't find out til after that he did it to film the jumpers...

they were pissed.

[Truthiness Inspector]

5. That is warped

that some guy set out in the hopes of catching suicidal jumpers on video.

A few people have survived jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge. As if they weren't suicidal enough, having it broadcast? Also, more thought is given to his own fame and fortune than the families of the jumpers who gave up on life and threw it and themselves over the bridge.

This is SICK.

[babylonsister]

6. He's also talking about people that were saved, and the

next segment is about a man who has spearheaded a movement to make the sides of the bridge higher so it's not so easy to hurl yourself over. He's one that survived.

[Truthiness Inspector]

7. It is still sick and opportunistic

I knew someone who survived. He was a lost and sad soul in this world. If I saw his jump televised for profit (read: pretend public service announcement) I would feel violent.

It is a disgusting thing to do. EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS the bridge should be reinforced. His video isn't groundbreaking, just opportunistic.

[PsN2Wind]

40. When I was in San Francisco in the Sixties

Not sure which year, they all kinda run together, there was talk of closing the bridge to pedestrian traffic to keep people from jumping. The concensus in The City was that they would then jump from buildings and endanger other people, so the idea was dropped.

[Zensea]

9. Not exactly

from the article linked in post 8

"Steel says he and his camera crew decided to “be human beings first” and to intervene whenever they suspected someone was about to jump. They programmed the numbers of bridge-security patrols into their cell-phone speed dials and consulted with suicide-prevention counselors about signs to watch for, such as people removing shoes or wallets, or placing bags on the sidewalk. Steel credits his film crew (who were stationed too far from the bridge to physically stop jumpers) with getting the authorities to six people in time for them to be saved."

Not to say that he is completely "pure," but who is?

[Truthiness Inspector]

10. Small comfort isn't it

since he is willing to broadcast the actual jumps?

I call bullshit.

If this guy donates 100% of the profits to suicide prevention then I will still be repulsed by his methods, but I will give him his due as trying to solve a problem instead of profiting from it.

[Zensea]

14. Do it to his face, not to me

Otherwise it's basically just talk.
Sorry, but I usually think when I see news items like this, that it is probably a lot more complex than what we are reading especially with something that can be considered an art form.
Without knowing the man it's very hard to know exactly what his motivations are.
That's why I personally don't call bullshit, although I do understand why someone would.
I guess I'm not quick to rush to judgement.

(edit of a a typo)

[Truthiness Inspector]

15. What you are missing

is that he does not speak for all jumpers, alive or dead.

Art form? What a joke. If someone videotaped your friend's suicide, but shielded himself by calling it "art" while turning a profit, what would you think?

As far as quick to rush to judgment, I guess you'd have to be in the shoes of caring about someone who jumped, eh?

If he donates ALL of the proceeds of this sick spectacle to suicide prevention I will still find it morally reprehensible, but I could concede the point that while misguided his intentions were genuine.

[Zensea]

17. I know this is a sensitive subject

so I should probably back off.
Since you could concede the point that his intentions might be genuine, I think you grasped what I meant about not calling bullshit.

I didn't miss the point that he does not speak for all jumpers.
However, I don't think it's a joke that it's a type of art form.
But then, I'm prepared to say that Gigi Allen had a form of art, no matter how morally reprehensible.
Art can be immoral, amoral or moral.
As for being in the shoes of caring about someone who jumped, I've been clinically depressed before.
Is that good enough for you?

[Shakespeare]

16. Sorry, you're wrong. He had the cooperation of the families.

And his documentary is actually very moving. But, way to go--slam something before you've even seen it.

**And, oh yeah....documentary filmmakers don't exactly get "fame and fortune" for their efforts. What they do they do as a labor of love.

[Truthiness Inspector]

19. All of the families?

He had cooperation of all of the families of the jumpers he videotaped and has permission to broadcast it? If so, then he checked it out.

I don't doubt that it is moving. I just question the moviemaker's true motives. If virtually no money is to be made, then the little he makes should be donated to suicide prevention, no?

[Shakespeare]

20. The ones who had family, yes. Do you even KNOW anything about this?

Because I do. I've seen the documentary. It's a fascinating and heartbreaking look at what moved these people to do what they did, which ones made preparation (and what those preparations were), the ones who jumped spontaneously, and how the families have dealth with the fallout.

You really have NO business attacking his motives until you actually see it and know what the hell you're talking about. Until you do, you just sound like an ignorant, presumptuous ass.

And no, I would never presume to tell ANYBODY what they should do with money they make. Presumably, it'll be put toward his next documentary process (which is how most documentary filmmakers work--they finish one project, and hope to make enough from it to go on and do another one; they live film to film).

[Truthiness Inspector]

22. So you are an expert?

I didn't realize that being a viewer of a questionable snuff film made one an expert.

I have every right to question his motives, explain to me why I do not?

One last question: Do/Did you know any jumpers personally?

[Shakespeare]

23. Good god. It's NOT a snuff film. Where the fuck do you get off?

I never said you didn't have a right to question it--what I SAID is that if you question his motives before you know what the hell you're talking about, you're a presumptuous ass. And that statement stands.

As a matter of fact, I DO KNOW the family of the teenage girl who jumped (one of six profiled in the film). Is that required for me to have educated myself about the film and actually understand what the filmmaker is doing? No, but thanks for playing anyway.

Here's a novel suggestion: why don't you educate yourself about this documentary?

Here's a link to start you off:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/04/29/MNG4GII00R1.DTL&type=printable

In January 2005, Steel invited bridge district officials to participate in a discussion of suicide in the film, but they declined. San Francisco Supervisor Tom Ammiano, who is on the bridge's board of directors, said at the time that it sounded like a "snuff film.''

"I knew that wasn't the kind of film I was making,'' Steel said Thursday from New York, where his film opened at the Tribeca Film Festival. "I made a film about the human spirit in crisis.''

He did, however, think that the death leaps were a necessary component of a film, intended to provoke discussion about suicide from the Golden Gate Bridge and mental illness in general. "Visual evidence,'' he said, "is very compelling.''

Steel's documentary is one of several factors credited with leading bridge board directors to approve the study in March 2005. Other forces include a separate film about suicide and the bridge by Jenni Olson, and lobbying efforts by the Psychiatric Foundation of Northern California, San Francisco Suicide Prevention and family members.

The film shows the struggles that family members and friends deal with in coming to grips with the death of a loved one, questioning whether they had done enough, had they recognized the signs.

<snip>

You can read the rest yourself, but his film has already done a lot of good, and aided in a lot of healing.

[Truthiness Inspector]

24. Thanks

I feel ok in my position. I do not condone this snuff film.

My hands are clean. Glad you are enjoying it though.

I hope some good comes out of this.

[Shakespeare]

25. Your position is one of complete ignorance.

Ignorance is a warm, comfortable feeling, isn't it?

This movie has raised a great deal of awareness, and is absolutely not a snuff film. I would never have the stomach for a snuff filme; I've seen this film, and it is not a snuff film. Pretty much everybody else who's seen it agrees. If you see it, you understand.

And it's not something to be "enjoyed," it's something to learn about. Sorry you have trouble understanding that a film can do that.

[Truthiness Inspector]

26. Thank you again for being the authority

This man videotaped people at the worst of times committing suicide, but it's a good thing. I'm glad you are here, otherwise, I might have had my own opinion.

Clearly your opinion reigns supreme.

P.S. Everyone has known for DECADES that the Golden Gate Bridge was suicide central. Hopefully this "artist's awareness" will translate into something new, other than $ for himself.

[Shakespeare]

29. No, you've simply closed your mind to what the film is about...

....before you even understand it, and fling around hyperbolic bullshit to try and set yourself above everyone else who's actually interested in what the film has to say. That's ignorance at its most supreme, and it disgusts me.

Considering one of us has actually bothered to educate herself about the film, I'd say my opinion just might carry a little more weight than someone who makes a rash judgment based on nothing but ignorance.

And what people haven't been aware of about the GGB is how brutal a suicide jump is; it's something that's been somewhat romanticized over the decades, and this film puts that completely to rest. It's also significant to see the interviews with the families, who--and I stress this again--WANTED this film out there. If they're supportive of it, then so am I.

[Truthiness Inspector]

31. Look

If you can assure me that EVERYONE involved in the film (family permission) is ok with it, then we have no quibble. I think I said that earlier as well.

Not everyone gets asked of course, but in my question to you I mean the families of those who are taped jumping. ALL of them APPROVE right?

[Shakespeare]

34. Let me tell you a little something about how films like this are made.

The filmmaker has to get permission to use interview footage from his subjects. All of the family and friends who appeared in this film did so because they wanted to talk about what happened, and understood and approved of what the filmmaker was striving for.

Now, it's quite one thing to say you just don't have the stomach to watch what is a very difficult film; THAT I respect. But to toss off comments like snuff film and just condemn if wholesale, I do not respect, and I happen to know those comments are wrong, because I'm familiar with the movie.

[Truthiness Inspector]

36. We are getting closer

My question to you: Are any jumpers shown sans family permission?

[Shakespeare]

37. To my knowledge, no. The film focuses on just a handful of the jumps from

that year. From what I understand, the families of all the victims he used--whom he also interviewed--all approved. This was not a project undertaken lightly or with a sense of morbid exploitation. The filmmaker lied on his film permit (regarding the subject of his film), because he wanted NO ONE to know what he was filming, on the off chance that it might encourage someone to jump. He undertook the project very responsibly, and handled it with great sensitivity.

[Truthiness Inspector]

39. That's a fair answer

I guess we shall see how it all shakes out, though. The fact that the filmmaker lied isn't coolio though. We shall see, I just hope no one is hurt.

Shakespeare, I don't think we are that far apart, we are just seeing this differently.

[EFerrari]

30. Thanks for the link. I think I have to see this.

There was a suicide in my husband's family and the survivors to this day can't talk about her. It's as if she simply vanished. It's so sad that they carry that terrible pain around to this day.

I'm glad this film was made.

[Shakespeare]

35. It's incredibly difficult. The father of the teenage girl who jumped....

...killed himself about a year later; hung himself from a tree in his front yard. He just couldn't get past the untimely, horrible death of his daughter. Suicide turns everybody who knew the deceased into victims, and I think this film might help others understand a little bit. It played in the bay area this spring, but it might be available on DVD by now (I haven't checked).

[habitual]

8. here is a link to an article about the film

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15349060/site/newsweek/

[habitual]

11. For those interested, the trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwl-Pa_QT0M

[catnhatnh]

12. A sad but funny anecdote.....

...my brother was a career firefighter who was called to a scene where a woman was set to jump from a bridge that rose 80-100 feet over the Housatonic river in Connecticut.On arrival a cop was telling the woman she shouldn't jump because it "wouldn't work",but moments later she jumped.It turned out the cop was right...after a horrendous drop,the woman hit the tidal mudflats that were below because it was low tide and drove herself feet-first neck deep into the mud-Then she nearly DID die-it took nearly two hours as the waters began to return to get the rescue truck off the turnpike (I-95) and down to the riverbank and to lay enough ladders across the mudflats to bring the unfortunate lady out...not to mention the several hours it took to clean a dozen pissed firemen,the truck, and almost every ladder in town of swamp muck....

[Truthiness Inspector]

13. So what was the funny part? n/t

[catnhatnh]

18. The entire scene....

something about life being a comedy to those who think,and a tragedy to those who feel....I held EMT papers for a few years in the 80's...if you couldn't laugh about some of what you saw you, would go insane over the bad parts....the poor woman got the help she needed....

[Truthiness Inspector]

21. Doesn't play well with the public

I agree that if you can't laugh you will cry sometimes, but there is nothing funny about a suicide.

This isn't a "laugh or you will cry" scenario, though. This is a deliberate staking out of a suicide portal to tape those suicides to turn a profit and gain notoriety. Where the proceeds of this sick experiment end up is yet to be determined. I hope the proceeds go to suicide prevention programs.

[EFerrari]

27. If the topic of this thread is so upsetting to you, it might be

a good idea to just let it go and find one that is more enjoyable for you.

[Truthiness Inspector]

32. Likewise.

[EFerrari]

38. As a member of a family who lost someone to suicide,

I'm hopeful that this film will continue to open a dialogue in this community.

We know people jump off that bridge. This film makes denial a little harder and prevention a little more possible.

[Truthiness Inspector]

42. So you would like your relative's suicide on teevee?

Dialogue is always a good thing. It's the method I have an issue with, would you like some filmmaker showing footage of your relative slitting his/her wrists, gulping down pills, jumping off a bridge, etc, so that is their legacy FOREVER?

If anyone showed footage of my loved ones in their final and saddest moments against their wills I would feel homicidal.

Would you like your loved one's suicide televised and on YouTube? Their most private moments?

[EFerrari]

43. It's not my job to reassure you or to change your mind.

Deal with it.

[Truthiness Inspector]

44. You too. n/t

[EFerrari]

45. Is that what you have? "You too"?

For an inspector, you sure do a lot of whining when other people are trying to show truth.

And yes, my family was profiled on CNN in some of the most painful moments of our lives. And after, my husband and I led an on line chat on one of the most devastating mental illnesses that families and their medical people deal with.

My life is where my mouth is and has been for many years. And yes, if one of these days I decide to throw myself off the bridge, I hope someone catches it ON FILM and USES it to HELP PEOPLE.

:)

[Truthiness Inspector]

47. No

I just find this distasteful to a high degree. You have your opinion, that you would relish being videotaped suiciding yourself...not everyone shares that dream.

You know about mental illness (I do too), so you should be able to appreciate the fact that not everyone who is ill is on the same page, nor are their friends and families.

I find the questionable consent/content of this film awful, you do not. C'est la vie.

[catnhatnh]

28. Well JEEPERS, dude....

If you are seriously involved in life,then yes-it is a laugh or cry proposition....I never saw or even commented on the film...I told what was to me a funny story....it was more about picking up the detritus of society and taking these sad folk to a place where,with help, they might again function in a familial unit.I have seen horrendous death, vile killing illnesses,and people suffering insult to their personess like you cannot believe...I worked the Le'ambiance building collapse in Bridgeport Connecticut in 1986-29 guys flattened like roadkill-we took them out squashed to concrete slabs while others carried bedsheets so that TV cameras didn't show what happened to a "temple of the lord"....There have been 20 some odd posts on this thread and eight of them are your's against this film-I have news for you-seeing what happens to someone commiting suicide is a GOOD thing-Seeing and understanding death may perhaps be a large boon to preventing jumpers.....I sometimes wish every american could spend a week on an ambulance-it sure couldn't hurt....

[Truthiness Inspector]

33. Point missed

Standing in anticipation of jumpers is NOT a laugh or cry situation. Please don't blow smoke up my ass.

Wretched things happen, but if you lie in wait with a video camera for the sole purpose of capturing such an event, it is a foregone conclusion, not an "Oh Shit! I can't believe that just happened!"

[catnhatnh]

41. OK-that's reply makes 13 out of 33 posts..

...therefore since you ignored the post in which I said that I neither linked to or saw the video I will leave it at this-appearently other than being outraged by the video you have no actual discussion of what happened in the film.As a guy who actually has shot film of disasters AND sold them-though hurricaine damage in my case-take this away-if I could stop it,I would do so-I could not-so I shot the pictures-only smoke up your ass is appearently it is okay for YOU to see someones death attempt- but to show it to a wider audience is somehow "sick"...

[Truthiness Inspector]

46. No one asked you to stop it

certainly not me. Just don't pretend that hanging out at a known hot-spot for suicides to videotape it for profit is HUMANE and COMMENDABLE.

[Omphaloskepsis]

48. A neat image below...

And don't give me shit about using the word, "neat."
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?o=2&f=/c/a/2005/10/30/MNG2NFF7KI1.DTL

I'm shocked so many jump over land and from light pole 69... They went out with a sense of humour.