Gays/Lesbians as the Booga-Booga of the week (a rant)

[radfringe]

sorry if this rambles and touches on alot of points... I'm a little miffed, and my brains races in several directions at the same time. I did try to limit the rambling....

Yesterday, instead of talking about Iraq/Terror/Economy, Bush spoke out against gay marriage. Didn't take long for him to take a swing at gay bashing, or court bashing -- all them "activist judges" in order to make a few political points and divert discussion on more pressing issues.

There are two predominate arguments against gay marriage.

The MAIN one is Gay Marriage threatens marriage. The Second one comes gay men and lesbians who feel it's adopting heterosexual conventions.

To those who agree with the second argument - simple solution: If/when gays/lesbians are allowed to marry and YOU still feel it's a heterosexual convention - don't get married. Allowing gay men/ lesbians to marry doesn't mean YOU have to marry - it's your choice for your own personal life.

Now onto the Main argument. Please explain how gay marriage threatens marriage? Please produce a straight couple who chose not to marry because of gay marriage. Please produce a straight couple who divorced because of gay marriage.

If you are really concerned about threats to families - take a look at the economy - the real economy, not the one the GOPers have slapped with happy-face stickers. Divorce statistics point to issues around MONEY (not gay marriage) as the main reason for divorce.

If you are really concerned about threats to families - look at health insurance costs and how many families do not have health insurance.

Family values is not a campaign slogan or a bumper sticker. It's more than some politician wringing his/her hands on the soapbox and blaming gay marriage as the the source of all problems.

Family values also means VALUING THE FAMILY - ALL FAMILIES. It means a strong economy which helps ALL FAMILIES, not a priviledge few. It means an education system which teaches to more than a "performance test". It means a secure homeland.

It doesn't mean using gay marriage as a booga-booga to woo votes and prey on fears. It doesn't mean spinning and hiding to pander select groups.

It's strange that when the Mark Foley scandal broke - among the excuses GOP used - was they didn't want to be accused of gay-bashing. GOP went out of it's way to express how big their tent was, how inclusive they were. Well, that was last week - and this week gays are the big booga-booga, not allowed inside the big tent.

And regarding a threat to marriage - think TERRY SHAIVO. An family issue that should have been left up to THE FAMILY - and a party (which use to stress less government interferance into personal lives) interjected itself - in the dark of night - to tell this FAMILY what it could and couldn't do.

[terrya]

1. Thank you. Very good post. Recommended.

Excellent rant.

[Quakerfriend]

2. Yes, radfringe! And, thx for throwing the Terry Shaivo issue

in because this is the REAL threat to our families.

These tactics are classic KKKRovian. He brings out the homophobia bs every election.

[radfringe]

3. GOPers want

government OUT of the BOARDROOM and IN the BEDROOM

[katinmn]

4. K&N. It's just the GOP desperately trying to shift focus again

It is reprehensible the way the Repubs use people to divide and conquer the nation.

They have nothing to run on but hate and fear mongering.

[ThomCat]

5. Nicely said.

[BlueEyedSon]

6. No, it's not either of those 2 arguments. It's contrary to god's will as

documented in the bible.

That's all.

[radfringe]

8. same thing

Gay Marriage threatens marriage based on the bible, or based on other references...

what they don't say is specifically HOW gay marriage threatens marriage..

[BlueEyedSon]

9. No, its not. You are trying to formulate a real "logical" argument.

There isn't one. Its just a rule to be obeyed (and to be forced on others).

[radfringe]

10. what's the difference if I say

it's based on the Bible, or my shopping receipt from the Piggly Wiggly or I had a vision from the Great Flying Spagetti Monster?

look, it's fill in the blank time - Gay marriage threatens marriage because _________________________ tells me it does. Doesn't really matter if it's the bible or it appeared on a piece of toast - not everyone who is against gay marriage is against it based on the bible or some other text

[shirlden]

7. My dittohead sister

was the only member of our family who voted in favor of the gay marriage amendment. She said she wanted to "protect the sanctity of marriage". She is also the only one of our family who has ever been divorced......twice. Go figure.

:shrug:

[CorpGovActivist]

11. Some Dems on Here Booga-Boogaed Too

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2494634&mesg_id=2494634

Let's hope that these "Lynne Cheney Democrats" are more open-minded on the topic than W, and come around.

- Dave

[hedgehog]

12. Did anyone notice that the ruling didn't even make a ripple in the news?

I don't think most people even heard about the ruling which is an indication to me that there is a great deal of apathy out there about this issue. The general public isn't out there fighting for gay rights, but at the same time I don't think most people give a damn anymore about whether gays can get married. It's hard to go booga-booga when people just don't care any more.

[BlueEyedSon]

13. Front page, column 6 (i.e. most important column) of the NY Times

G.O.P. Moves Fast to Reignite Issue of Gay Marriage

WASHINGTON, Oct. 26 — The divisive debate over gay marriage, which played a prominent role in 2004 campaigns but this year largely faded from view, erupted anew on Thursday as President Bush and Republicans across the country tried to use a court ruling in New Jersey to rally dispirited conservatives to the polls.

etc: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/27/us/politics/27marriage.html?hp&ex=1162008000&en=bb70e8d08855d229&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[hedgehog]

18. I'm from a little west of the Hudson, and I don't think it raised a

ripple out here. I think trying to get voters out here to care about gay marriage one way or another is like trying to raise interest in a week old thread here.

[VeggieTart]

14. Well, with the Terry Schiavo case...

...it was the husband fighting her biological family over who got to decide the course of her care. He wanted her to be able to die with dignity because he believed her condition was irreversible, and they wanted to keep her alive for decades. For the record, the autopsy showed her brain had atrophied to half the normal size and that she was blind.

Now, I was thinking--what if two men or two women marry, there's a situation like this, and one partner wants his/her spouse to be able to die with dignity, and the family fights them on it a la the Schindlers (Ms. Schiavo's family)? There were a lot of conservative hatechristians coming to the Schindler family's aid, and I have to wonder if they were using this to knock down one of the arguments gays and lesbians use to justify their demands for marriage rights.

But then I am a cynical bitch sometimes.

[Parche]

15. gm

I feel your pain

While soldiers are dying in Iraq at alarming rates, MonkeyApe talks about Gay Marriage

What is it about sex that the Republicans love so much, that is all they talk about.....

Why dont they leave our bedrooms to us?

Gays just want to be equal, its not 'special'rights or 'being in the closet'
they just dont telegraph it.

Being gay is personal, not a National Enquirer Newspaper

[JudyM]

16. It will de-sanctify marriage if gays can marry only if gays are second-class

citizens. And the NJ court ruling implicitly addressed that issue, showing that the NJ legislature and courts have taken steps in the past 20 or so years to prevent gays from being discriminated against in the workplace, in the adoption arena, etc. The court reasoned that on the same grounds, discriminating against gay couples by not allowing them the social and financial benefits of marriage was not justifiable, never mind that it also hurt their children. So in NJ, gays are not second-class citizens.

There's no evidence that gay marriage would harm existing marriages, or prevent heterosexuals from marrying. It would just harm heterosexual privilege. And perhaps make it more difficult for straight parents to explain to their kids why it's so important to not BE gay.

[KittyWampus]

17. Well if the Gay Activists & Democrats would just demand Civil Unions for everyone

the whole issue would be resolved to EVERYONE's satisfaction.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

19. We were the Booga Booga of DU, too.

Within 5 minutes of the decision being handed down, the possibility of losing the election went from being Diebold's fault to being the fault of uppity queers.

[badgerpup]

20. And the really ironic thing (at least IMHO) ...

is that marriage originally wasn't about 'sanctity' at all.
It was a way to insure that property got transferred down the line and have some control over the process.

The 'sanctity' came in when the local religious spokesperson demanded their share of the cut for invoking a 'blessing' on the transaction.