How do we avoid what happened to the Vietnam Vets, happen to the Iraq Vets?

[Up2Late]

What I mean is, when this War in Iraq is eventually lost, and don't kid yourselves, it's a matter when, not if, so when the U.S. Troops finally do start "re-deploying stateside," how do we prevent what happened to Vietnam Vets, in the 1970's, from being repeated with the Iraq Vets?

What I mean is, that feeling of defeat and shame, and the not wanting to talk about "the War" when we meet an Iraq War Vet on the street, is that going to happen again? I don't know if everyone felt that way, but I sure did as a kid growing up in the 1970's in Indiana.

Though I was just 11 years old in 1975, I still remember feeling really bad for those guys. And then in 1983, when I went to school out in Santa Barbara, California, seeing all guys sleeping on the streets and in the parks, and hearing all the stories (or myths) about how screwed up Vietnam made a lot of those guys...

Is there anyway to avoid going through another shameful period like that, or do you think in this world of Fox "news" and Yellow Ribbon magnets, that we won't have that feeling again this time?

If this is too depressing a topic to think about, please don't, I know it's like contemplating your own future death, but this just occurred to me and I'd like some thoughts about what we can do to not let this happen again, or is this just inevitable?

You may disagree, but I think most of these guys were just doing the jobs our stupid civilian leaders told them to do.

Are there any warning signs of people and/or the media making villains of the troops, and is there any way to avoid and counteract that type of thing, once we know it's happening?:shrug:

Maybe I should just go have a beer.

[Monkeyman]

1. Support them when they come home Replugs won't

Go here ask Larry by his email http://www.vawatchdog.org

[MadMaddie]

2. I think it's different this time...no one is angry at the soldiers

they angry at the leaders that abused the soldiers.....the way to honer the soldiers is to make sure that * cabal is held accountable for the crimes they have committed...

We have many here who work directly with Vets and they can tell you the stories...we will fight for the soldiers to get proper care....

[bullimiami]

6. arent they? there are soldiers of ours who have tortured,

soldiers who have stolen, raped, murdered, used phosphorus and burned people up.

do you think it is all just going to be forgotten? this is why viet soldiers had such a hard time, they all had to suffer for the crimes of some because most of those were never prosecuted and were sent back to live among us.

[Monkeyman]

13. MOST OF THEM ARE DEAD

killed themslf's or the Orange got them. Remember there is a lot of us Nam vets here on the DU

[KoKo]

11. Ummmm during Vietnam protestors were angry with Johnson/Nixon and

not the soldiers. Just to set the record straight.

Peace!

[benddem]

15. Yes but they took it out on

the vets. I know...I was there.

[Monkeyman]

16. SAME SAME Brother

[KoKo]

18. Who took it out on you and how?

:shrug: Would you put whatever personal experience you had on all Vietnam vets? All vets are trashed after the war...If one looks back on history. WWI Vets had to camp out on White House Mall protesting because President Hoover denied them benefits ...Hoover ordered the encampment/tent city to be disbanded.

[Monkeyman]

19. Airport Called baby killer VSO's didn't want us

School had to hide the fact I was a Vietnam vet . Cops Jobs all called us jun-ky or nut cases. Over 15,000 went to jail.

[Spangle]

20. It's different in a way

Because we feel 'sorry' that they were forced to BE there. AND we are more educated today then we were back then. A military person has to 'justify' their actions in their mind in order to mentally survive. That make talk about what they 'did' hard to listen to, when they are listening to others who were not 'there'. Now days, we generally understand that. We are not expecting these guys to come home 'sorry' for what they did to other humans and other things they might have had to endure to survive. We will nto place 'guilt' on them like that. Or, not as much as before. Society is still shocked to hear of the abuses that happenes. But that kind of abuse has ALWAYS happened, not new.

[Monkeyman]

22. Yes but think about this one out of four with mental problems

And some being sent back to Iraq with those problems. I did 1 1/2 tours in Nam. These kids are on their fourth

[Spangle]

33. Oh, I'm thinking

About the lack of 'support' once they are out of service. The lack of any real mental health net in the civilian world. And the military is going to want to push the finanical loss elsewhere. On this level, nothing has changed since then. And will not, until 'we' push for better mental health in the civilian sector. Cause this is where those guys problem will be dumped. Along wiht others who are dealing with non-war related mental health issues.

This is a 2 step problem. One being the REAL mental problems they come home with. The other is the lack of 'support' and 'understanding' by the general population who can't understand (blame) what these kids are doing in the military, they are doing it to SURVIVE.

[raysr]

38. These guys today VOLUNTEERED!!!

How many of the Viet Vets were drafted? 70% or better? These guys don't deserve a hero's welcome, they did it for money, no better than mercenaries.

[The Straight Story]

3. We can get the repugs out of power and get aid to these folks

and on a personal note we can volunteer some time to work with em, visit them, etc.

We send care packages when they are at war, let's send em some when they come home - welcome back packages.

[bullimiami]

4. when the muderers and torturers among them and the leaders

that sent them there are just set loose among the population and never pay for their crimes.

many people will not forget and the stench of what was done there will stick to them.
just like vietnam.

[napi21]

5. I think the worst partfor the soldiers coming home from Nam was

so many of the American people slamming them and calling them names...hating them for what they did. I never did it, but many people did.

I just don't see that happening thing time.I honestly think most people realize those folks aren't therre by cchoicebut directive!

You may have some criticism of those who are found guilty of torture, but THAT is well deserved.

[WCGreen]

9. That is really a distortion....

They were isolated incidents... of course, but it is just true...

It a myth...

The problems was the vets were whisked home individually...

One minute in Vietnam, the nest in San Fransico...

It was a shock...

[Karenina]

12. Saturday being shot at in the jungle

Sunday dumped on the streets of San Francisco. No decomperession or debriefing. Yes, kids, THAT IS how it went down. What's happening NOW is exponentially worse after MULTIPLE TOURS.

[KoKo]

14. I never saw that? Not once. Where did you see it?

:shrug:

[JohnnyLib2]

7. That war had support early on; the anti-military stuff

took years to develop. We still have time to head it off by changing the dynamics in D.C. Starting Nov. 7.

If the current non-plan is allowed to go on--your fears (and mine) will come true.

[OhioBlue]

8. Unfortunately,

Many returning Iraq War Vets are already having a very hard time. They have seen things that have changed them. There is PTSD, depression, etc. Something we can do is be supportive and urge our elected representatives to provide more resources and services for them. We also need to keep the pressure on to get them home.

On a personal level, I guess just listen when they want to talk, embrace them and be understanding that they have been put through hell... Donate to charities that provide housing for disabled vets... or local effort for the families and those serving.... also, check out www.anysoldier.com

[Up2Late]

24. Yup, I just heard a story of a 50yr old NY N.G. Iraq Vet who's lives in his car...

...because he had nothing to come home to, after being crippled in a HUMVEE Roll-over.

His parents are already dead and he can't do his old job as an Auto Mechanic, and the Government only rates him as 20% disabled.

It's a very sad story, but very well done. If you want to hear it, here's the link:

Iraq War Vets Return; Some Have No Home

Photo by: Libby Lewis, NPR
Joe Raicaldo leans against the '98 Plymouth he has been living
in since his honorable discharge from the Army after he was injured in Iraq.

Listen to this story...(at link below)
by Libby Lewis

All Things Considered, October 27, 2006 · National Guard Cpl. Joe Raicaldo is
home from Iraq with things he didn't have when he left: an honorable discharge,
metal rods and screws up and down his spine, and an arm that moves like a robot's.
He's also homeless, living in his car. There are at least 600 recent vets who are homeless.

Raicaldo's story is one that tells how hard it is going
to be to weave some of America's warriors back into the fabric of home.

<http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6394180>

[KoKo]

10. I think it will be the same for these soldiers as for those in Vietnam.

Our country chose to invade both those other countries and there are no accolaides for invasions. WWII was much different. And, yet even those who came home from WWII were left on their own after the "Hero Bands and Welcomings and Hooplah" over defeating the Nazi's and Japan.

"Hail the Conquering Hero" only lasts as long as the last parade bystander has gone home. Readings from history show that...sadly. :-(

If memories of Vietnam had lingered and been taken seriously than Cheney/Bush and the PNAC/NEO-CONS wouldn't have DARED START "another war."

As with Vietnam...the lives of the missing soldiers are nothing to us unless they were a next door neighbor, student, neighbor or relative of ours. Vietnam had more thousands ...yet still most of those in power today in our Government, House and Senate and Media...have little memory of the pain of Vietnam to those who served. Afghanistan and Iraq have even fewer troops than Vietnam, and so many are "private contractors" whose names won't even be recorded.

Those who served will be forgotten...except for some memorial put foward by a new BUSHBOT trying to make Political Capital out of another disaster.

That's just my 2 cents...

[BlooInBloo]

17. I thought all that spitting in their faces and what-not was just....

... war-mongers making shit up cuz they were so at the pro-peace crowd for being right, and for eventually winning.

Yay/Nay?

[WCGreen]

21. Pretty much....

Isolated stuff, of course, but hell...

They didn't blame the soldiers...

[BlooInBloo]

23. Thx for verifying. So this entire thread is based upon a false premise.

[Up2Late]

28. "...false premise?" I said nothing about the Rambo version of the...

...Vietnam Vets returning to jeering crowds, you did.

Their was nothing false about the way the nobody wanted to talk about Vietnam or acknowledge the needs of the Vietnam Vets in the late 1970's - early 1980's, don't kid yourself, it did happen. I lived in that world.

I can't remember what finally broke the silence. I might have been the Vietnam Vet protests in downtown Indianapolis (in 1983 I think), or was it the movie "Stripes"? Who knows?

But it did happen, maybe not in the exact same way Hollywood movies portrayed it, but it did happen, and we should not let it happen again.

[WCGreen]

31. Probably the movie Coming Home.....

[Up2Late]

35. Coming Home was one of the first to start the conversation, but I think...

...a lot of people were still mad a Jane Fonda, so a lot of people didn't see that one.

That would be an interesting poll, something like: Which movie, made between 1978 and 1985, which has the Vietnam War as a main plot point, which movie was the most helpful or most destructive regarding healing the old wounds of...

Or something like that.:shrug:

[applegrove]

25. They have much better drugs for PTSD. Much better. So as long as

Vets have medical coverage..they should be able to heal state-side. That is if they get the help they need ... when they need it.

[spindrifter]

26. For the Vietnam Vets

it was the very fact that they went to VN that caused the problem, since the war was the most devisive issue of the times.
It seems as though Desert Shield/Storm vets and the people serving in Iraq are not getting the same reception when they return because the more recent wars have not been as devisive at home. We don't have the draft, so there is not the same issue concerning people who went v. people who did not go, for whatever reason.
I hope that we don't treat our returning service people like we did the Vietnam Vets. We need to make sure Democrats are in power and we need to get the whole social service/health care system up and running to meet the severe needs that these veterans bring home with them.

[Canuckistanian]

27. For one thing, PTSD is a well-understood disorder now

Well, at least "better understood".

And treatments are much more effective. Also, now that it's recognized as a actual disorder and not just "nerves" or "shell shock", vets (or their families) will seek out treatments more readily.

But unfortunately, there will be a great many who will not seek treatment and gradually withdraw from society.

So it will be like post-Vietnam, only on a smaller scale (depending on how long this war lasts).

[Monkeyman]

29. I think you better read some more like on the vet sites

Here one email Larry ask him if they are even treating PTSD when these kids come home NO THEY ARE NOT here is the link http://www.vawatchdog.org

[Canuckistanian]

34. I found these 2 articles there

THE UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES AND MENTAL HEALTH IMPACT OF
THE WARS IN AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ
http://www.vawatchdog.org/old%20newsflashes%20OCT%2006/newsflash10-29-2006-6.htm

and

EMORY UNIVERSITY TO STUDY NEW PTSD EARLY INTERVENTION
TECHNIQUES -- Mindful Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) pays
attention to present-moment experiences.
http://www.vawatchdog.org/old%20newsflashes%20OCT%2006/newsflash10-24-2006-9.htm

So at least they're studying the problems very seriously.

Now are you saying that the VA hospitals are refusing to treat for this?

[Monkeyman]

30. Forgot they are sending them back to Iraq with PTSD hmm

Wonder if it will make them better ya right

[Hamlette]

32. I thought you were going to say what we did to gays after Vietnam

it was thought, at one time, you could get out of Vietnam by claiming to be gay and many did. But it didn't work, they were drafted and sent to war. After the war they denied benefits to anyone who had said they were gay on their induction papers. A great country's shame.

[LynnTheDem]

36. What happened to the Nam vets? They found support from the LEFT,

many thousands joined protests themselves, and endured taunts & blame from the right.

And WWII vets marching in protest against the Vietnam war were spit on.

By conservatives.

And them's FACTS.

[Mountainman]

39. I don't know if you were around back in the late 60's and early 70's

but I think you go in the wrong direction when you put what happened over 30 years ago into todays context of left and right, liberals and conservatives. The police riot in Chicago against the anti war protesters was at the Democratic Convention. There were people both on the left and right who were pro war and anti war. People who supported the troops could just as well have been conservative as liberal. I know from experience that if I wanted to be loved at a peace rally all I had to do is put on my uniform and stand on stage with a microphone and denounce the war. Just the same if I wore the same uniform and did not denounce the war I would not be treated as well. I was anti war for the last six months I was in Vietnam and when I came home and I know of what I speak too.

[Mountainman]

37. There are all kinds of people in this country with many different motivations

for doing what they do when it comes to war. I was in the Vietnam war and I think the Iraq war will be harder on those vets than Vietnam was for us.

There are people on this board who do not like vets I think. Being anti war doesn't mean you can't be an ass hole too. I think the best thing we can do is to go back to the days when we did not think that fighting was the first thing we should do. It is civilians like all of us here that send people to fight for us. We did it to them. If you are anti war, then you are off the hook on this one but the country as a whole backed this war and the returning vets remind them of something maybe they would like to put out of their minds. We have such a short attention span. I remember my year in Vietnam more than any other year of my life. I can never put it in the back of my mind and forget it but lots of people have put that war out of there minds. It is part of history that happened a long time ago. Vets never get to forget about it, for them it happened yesterday.

I think the best thing to do is to thank them for their service and don't ask them about the war but be prepared to stop the next one and stop the need for returning vets.

[Up2Late]

40. I've been against this War since long before most people even thought...

...we were going to War in Iraq.

I was one of the few people who figured out this war was coming and was going to be sold for totally bogus reasons in early September, 2002 when I heard a BBC program that was asking, "Why are they talking so much about Iraq now?" It took me a few days, but I soon figured out it was for Oil, which is why we when to war in Iraq.

I was never really much of a fan of the Afghanistan War either, but I can't say that I openly opposed it either.

As a Buddhist, I was a little bit angry when the Taleban destroyed the Bamiyan Buddhas but, as I'm sure you know, most buddhists are absolutely anti-war.

<http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/03/12/afghan.buddha.02/>