Now That I'm at Liberty, Here's More of the Halliburton Story II

[CorpGovActivist]

Blackhatjack suggested starting a second thread:

"It will be easier to navigate. Contain a link back to original thread for those just catching on. It will make it possible for dialup users to participate without having to await massive loading of the previous thread."

Fair enough: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2498181&mesg_id=2498181

"Another possible suggestion: Post what 'you' deem to be the important questions we should look to be answered in the next few days. This will help people here get the 'gist' of what is going on. I think it is a valid criticism to point out many people working to elect Dems this week will not have time to fully inform themselves in this cycle. (Afterward, they will have plenty of time to catchup)."

The problem with that is, I've lived it. Aspects that I take for granted as "given," others may not know about.

"Trying to be helpful. Good luck!"

Good suggestions, but I really do think that others asking questions may help.

- Dave

[DemReadingDU]

1. Thanks!

Nice to continue this topic!

[CorpGovActivist]

2. It's Nice to Be Able to...

... finally talk publicly about a lot of this stuff.

- Dave

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. Great story, Dave.

Quite seriously: Are you licensed for and carrying a weapon?

Not a big fan of such things, but...

[CorpGovActivist]

6. Not a Fan Either...

"Quite seriously: Are you licensed for and carrying a weapon?

Not a big fan of such things, but..."

... none of my grandfather's grandchildren managed to escape the orbit of hunting. Besides which:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molly_Maguires

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMWA

Carpetbagging fake Texans have nothing on the "Real McCoy," if you ask me:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatfield-McCoy_feud

; )

- Dave

[IdesOfOctober]

4. Here's one...

"Another possible suggestion: Post what 'you' deem to be the important questions we should look to be answered in the next few days. This will help people here get the 'gist' of what is going on."

I think someone should ask David how he has footed the bill for his activities.

Ides

[IdesOfOctober]

21. Why David's friends grab the tab for pints

1. David has liquidated his 401(k) - several times - to bootstrap his activities. This came to light when a small group of his friends asked him how he could afford to take such long stretches of time off. When others expressed astonishment, David replied (as if it were the most natural thing in the world): "Most of the money in there the first time was the Halliburton money. That was blood money. I didn't want it. Besides, I'm young. I've got time to save again."

2. David left a six-figure job this Spring, to be available in the "home stretch" of the mid-terms. Once again, he liquidated his 401(k), and he's on COBRA - with Crohn's Disease. His response about that added expense? "I'll find work again before the COBRA runs out. The mid-terms aren't that far away."

David doesn't know this, but this is why his friends always grab the tab for pints.

Ides

[midnight]

154. Those who look out for David, and take care of his pints, you

made my heart grow another size larger.

[Blackhatjack]

5. I'll take a shot at it ..... A Few Basic Questions

1- What are the charges that will likely result in indictments?

2- Who is likely to be indicted, and in what order?

3- Will the announcement of the indictments occur BEFORE the midterm election date Nov 7?

4- What kind of $$$ is involved in the Halliburton corruption scandal? Millions? Billions?

5- Why will Cheney likely not serve out his full term?

6- Has this been simmering below the surface until Democrats could obtain a majority in the House so that the Congressional Subpoena could be used, and investigative hearings convened?

7- Does the Halliburton scandal intersect with the Libby/Plame investigation by Fitzgerald?

8- Does the Halliburton scandal intersect with the Enron implosion that defrauded its pensioners, employees and shareholders?

9- Does the Halliburton scandal intersect with the State Street Bank scandal acting as a 'special fiduciary' in the Enron coverup?

10- Who at Halliburton is likely to be charged with engaging in a conspiracy to defraud the US Government?
******************************

I know this covers very broad topics which you have previously addressed in part by links to other sites with information. However, I think DUers would appreciate a simple yes or no answer where possible, and a short answer if the question asks you to list people or events.

The old basic of detailing Who, What, When, Where and Why works well on basic questions where you do not believe you can fully answer a question without multiple paragraphs and links.

Thanks. Just trying to help. (Old journalism habits tend to recur - sorry!).

[Tuesday_Morning]

8. helpful questions - thanks BHJ

Another: How did you get involved in the State Street bank scandal?

And via Ides: How'd you foot the bill for all this whistleblowin?

[CorpGovActivist]

177. How Long...

"Another: How did you get involved in the State Street bank scandal?"

How long have you got?

: )

"And via Ides: How'd you foot the bill for all this whistleblowin?"

Ides took it upon himself to answer that one.

- Dave

[CorpGovActivist]

9. Awesome List!!!

I take each in turn below:

"1- What are the charges that will likely result in indictments?"

The most mature investigation, ripe for indictments, is probably the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act investigationS (please note the plural; we're not talking about just Nigeria here): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act

"2- Who is likely to be indicted, and in what order?"

I'm guessing you're familiar with prosecutorial practice and prosecutorial discretion. That order is often very fluid, depending upon who is "playing ball" at any given moment. Right now, I think the goal is to strip Dick Cheney of all remaining plausible deniability shields for what he knew, and when he knew it, while CEO of Halliburton.

"3- Will the announcement of the indictments occur BEFORE the midterm election date Nov 7?"

That is a hotly debated topic: "Is it necessary to act now? Would it be seen as politically-motivated?"

"4- What kind of $$$ is involved in the Halliburton corruption scandal? Millions? Billions?"

Billions.

"5- Why will Cheney likely not serve out his full term?"

Vice President Cheney is lying through his grimace when he claims that the FCPA violations happened without his knowledge.

"6- Has this been simmering below the surface until Democrats could obtain a majority in the House so that the Congressional Subpoena could be used, and investigative hearings convened?"

Yes, and no. From the perspective of Hill staffers, yes. From the perspective of career prosecutors, no - absolutely not.

"7- Does the Halliburton scandal intersect with the Libby/Plame investigation by Fitzgerald?"

Yes, absolutely: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1269476/000126947606000011/0001269476-06-000011-index.htm (see the Armitage stuff)

"8- Does the Halliburton scandal intersect with the Enron implosion that defrauded its pensioners, employees and shareholders?"

Yes, but I have to be circumspect about that for now.

"9- Does the Halliburton scandal intersect with the State Street Bank scandal acting as a 'special fiduciary' in the Enron coverup?"

Yes, ditto.

"10- Who at Halliburton is likely to be charged with engaging in a conspiracy to defraud the US Government?"

All the dons and capos. Just like with Al Capone's racket, those who cooked the books - and kept more than one set - will be front and center.

And, as I'm sure you know, RICO permits for the recovery of treble damages - and racketeering convictions can be presented on the civil side as "prima facie" evidence of civil damage:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=treble+damages+pattern+racketeering+activity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prima_facie

- Dave

P.S. Halliburton/KBR will be sponsoring Christmas for many of BushCo.'s victims for many years to come.

[Blackhatjack]

16. Just Like Visiting The Oracle, Ask a Q and Get an Answer .... LOL

I think this format works well here.

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

Two follow up Questions if I may:

Given that Halliburton maintains its principal place of business(Corp HQ) outside the United States, is this a problem in collecting evidence and bringing them to court in the US?

And would it not be legal for them to stockpile damaging docs outside the country, and destroy those docs without violating the law of the United States?

[CorpGovActivist]

18. Now You're Talking...

... huge fan of ancient Greece and ancient Rome.

"Given that Halliburton maintains its principal place of business(Corp HQ) outside the United States, is this a problem in collecting evidence and bringing them to court in the US?"

Halliburton is a Delaware corporation: http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?company=&CIK=hal&filenum=&State=&SIC=&owner=include&action=getcompany (See the header info.)

See also the latest annual report: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/45012/000004501206000124/ed10k2005_final.htm

This is the list of its "principal" subsidiaries, an exhibit to the Annual Report: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/45012/000004501206000124/exhibit21.htm

Pay careful attention to the Caymans affiliate. You'll be hearing lots about that one, in connection with those FCPA activities that took place on Dick Cheney's watch.

"And would it not be legal for them to stockpile damaging docs outside the country, and destroy those docs without violating the law of the United States?"

Shredder farms in the Caymans gain them nothing.

- Dave

[G_Leo_Criley]

116. Re: Awesome List

This is incredible:

"Yes, absolutely: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1269476/00012694... (see the Armitage stuff)"


Awesome exchange. Thank you. When I pass the golden horseshoes, later this week, I'll definitely think of you!

Thanx to Blackhatjack too for asking the right questions.

glc

[CorpGovActivist]

117. You're in Cambridge?

I was up there last weekeend - Head of the Charles (and my "criminal trespass" hearing, gratis Andy Card's high school chum, Ron Logue, CEO of State Street).

: )

- Dave

[midnight]

160. Ron Logue is the friend you asked about, and got arrested?

[CorpGovActivist]

178. Ron Logue is Andy Card's Pal, and the CEO of Social Security Privatization Central...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=card+logue+holbrook+%22state+street%22

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=card+logue+holbrook+state+street+%22ides+of+october%22

The questions that Andy Card's pal couldn't/wouldn't answer forthrightly: http://www.shareholdersonline.org/pdf/questions%20for%202006%20AGM.pdf

My arrest record: http://www.shareholdersonline.org/pdf/HaveYouSeenThisMan.pdf

Happier days: http://www.shareholdersonline.org/proponentbios.htm

: )

The public trial on my criminal trespass charge is slated to begin on December 8th. Reciprocal discovery between my lawyers and the prosecution is due by November 20th.

- Dave

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

158. I noticed RICO mentioned above

Will it definitely be invoked? (An important point because RICO is a tool with long, sharp teeth.)

[CorpGovActivist]

174. RICO Will Be One of the Primary Tools...

... and why the hell not?

: )

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sup_01_18_10_I_20_95.html

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sup_01_18_10_I_20_96.html

Let's call this for what it is. It's racketeering. Cheney is a racketeer.

And he can go * himself, too. I'd say it to him, but not on the floor of the Senate - that's hallowed ground that he is unfit to tread.

- Dave

[G_Leo_Criley]

179. A cheer goes up...

mornin' Dave.

"Let's call this for what it is. It's racketeering. Cheney is a racketeer."

Keep it coming please! I love the picture you're painting.

glc
ISFP
yep -- am where you say and nearby environs

[CorpGovActivist]

181. There Be Patriots Still...

... in them parts!

: )

We should swap eatery recommendations, and meet up for a pint.

- Dave

[G_Leo_Criley]

185. Re: There Be Patriots Still...

"... in them parts!"

and in these DU parts too! The blogosphere in general is alive with them patriots!

Yes, next time you're in town for court perhaps?

glc

[Buttercup McToots]

182. Interesting Stuff

On the site you gave us, David.
Can't wait to see it updated...:evilgrin:

http://www.democrats.reform.house.gov/investigations.asp?Issue=Energy+Policy

Wednesday, July 27, 2005
$1.5 Billion Giveaway Secretly Slipped into Energy Bill
Rep. Waxman writes that after the energy legislation was closed to further amendment in the recently concluded conference, a $1.5 billion provision benefiting oil and gas companies, Halliburton, and Sugar Land, Texas, was mysteriously inserted in the text.

Tuesday, January 08, 2002
White House Discloses Enron Contacts; Waxman Seeks Additional Information
Responding to Rep. Waxman's December 4 letter, the White House reveals repeated contacts between Enron executives and the White House energy task force. Rep. Waxman writes Vice President Cheney to seek information about the topics discussed during the six meetings with Enron executives disclosed by the White House.

Bloody Thieves
I really want to see them behind bars...
No pardon...Iron Bars...

I keep researchin`

[G_Leo_Criley]

189. RE: Interesting Stuff (or should I say: "tea spew?"

ohhh... I must wipe my monitor. Tea droplets rolling down the screen...

My dear Mrs. McToots,

Yes, I intend to keep researching too. It often takes a few readings for me to even try to wrap my head around it all. This is simply immense.


"No pardon...Iron Bars..." McToots

"everybody's havin' them dreams" (dylan)

glc

[in_cog_ni_to]

10. GREAT questions!

:thumbsup:

Can't wait to read the answers!

[Buttercup McToots]

11. BlackHatJack

I like your style...

[CorpGovActivist]

12. I Wonder If He's an...

... ISTJ?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=istj+%22just+the+facts%22

; )

- Dave

[Blackhatjack]

139. Not Sure I Fit in A Particular Classification, but thanks anyway ...

I have a habit of being direct and methodical when it comes to fact finding, and a little more reserved in settling on analysis that is populated by absolutes.

My world is not made up of just 'black and white' --lots of shades of gray out there!

[CorpGovActivist]

157. Nope...

... can't be an ISTJ then. LOL. They tend to be binary!

: )

But, as I'm sure you'll agree, there are also "bright lines" beyond which even Cheney must not stray - or if he does, he is looking at the business end of impeachment, indictment, and civil service of process.

- Dave

P.S. What was he shredding up there at the Naval Observatory earlier this month?

[midnight]

155. Darn good questions. What do you know about these

questions David?

[CorpGovActivist]

175. See #9

... in this thread.

- Dave

[Blackhatjack]

7. BTW ....Kick & Recommend To Keep Topic on Top.... n/t

[Buttercup McToots]

13. Is there

any investigating journalists on this story?
There should be...

[CorpGovActivist]

14. Mrs. McToots...

... there are several, and have been for months.

: )

- Dave

[bigbrother05]

15. Found this story ,telling ,over the weekend

Looks like they could tie together slimy bastards, just make a law to protect themselves
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/29/business/29corporate.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[CorpGovActivist]

17. One of the Areas My Democratic Friends Must - MUST - Learn How to Do...

... more effectively, is to monitor the all-important public comment periods at the SEC:

http://www.sec.gov/rules/proposed.shtml

This is where Corporate America is shielding itself, day in and day out.

- Dave

[Buttercup McToots]

51. That really scares me

In fact. I'm scared alot these days, just thinkin that if
this admin is not booted out, the Great American Democratic
experiment is doomed...
:cry:

[CorpGovActivist]

54. But Mrs. McToots...

... was it not you, who brought to our attention this lovely quote?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=george+washington+valley+forge+plant+my+flag+scotch+irish+make+stand

May I add a bit of Scripture?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=i+will+lift+up+my+eyes+to+the+hills+my+help+psalms+whence+cometh+from

We mountain and hill folk like that one a lot, because ye can always count on us when it matters most!

- Dave

[Buttercup McToots]

57. Yes

I know David, but sometimes it seems so deep and ugly...
BUT
I will be strong an` fight tae the end, fer freedom..."for which no worthy man surrenders...but with his LIFE"

[CorpGovActivist]

61. Must've Been...

... a good batch of Scotch he had that day, nae?

: )

- Dave

[radfringe]

19. question:

1. on a scale of 1-10, with Nixon's watergate being a middle ground of 5 - where do you think this one rates? Bigger, smaller about the same?

2. watching public reaction to other scandals coming out of the white house, I found that the more "complicated" it is, the less interest the public has on following it. Mark Foley was pretty easy to follow, he inappropriately approached pages, House Repubs knew about it and covered it up

[CorpGovActivist]

20. Good Questions...

"1. on a scale of 1-10, with Nixon's watergate being a middle ground of 5 - where do you think this one rates? Bigger, smaller about the same?"

Much bigger. Managed well, the oversight hearings could cause a permanent realignment in the electorate. By that, I mean that:

1. Progressives - whether Democrats, Republicans, or Independents - would gain much more power within their respective establishments.

2. Religious voters would be required to face up to the fact that they've been used, abused, and misled.

3. Some purple areas of the map would gain a faint new blue hue.

"2. watching public reaction to other scandals coming out of the white house, I found that the more 'complicated' it is, the less interest the public has on following it. Mark Foley was pretty easy to follow, he inappropriately approached pages, House Repubs knew about it and covered it up"

Good point. But aspects of this are easily grasped - and directly relevant to apolitical voters (by which I mean those who vote out of a sense of civic duty, without necessarily paying a lot of attention to more complex policy issues).

For example: everyone cares about his/her retirement account, right?

- Dave

[radfringe]

22. thanks...

I'm stocking up on :popcorn:

[CorpGovActivist]

23. ... and 3-D Glasses!

: )

- Dave

[kitkat65]

24. Oh, I have one for you!

Does this have anything to do with the push by B*** for privatizing social security after the 2004 election?

[CorpGovActivist]

25. It Has EVERYTHING To Do with It...

... you need a supertanker full of cigars for that one!

: )

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22state+street%22+social+security+privatization

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=card+white+house+chief+of+staff+logue+%22state+street%22

Notice is hereby given: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/93751/000126891106000030/enrondocumentpreservation.htm

Patrick is my partner of 12+ years.

- Dave

[Buttercup McToots]

27. Bush plan to loot Social Security

I like the cartoons...

http://www.new-enlightenment.com/sss1.htm

[CorpGovActivist]

30. Against the Assault of Laughter...

... nothing can stand. -- Mark Twain

: )

- Dave

[conscious evolution]

26. A question.

Does all of this depend on Democrats winning next Tuesday?Or are there independent grand juries preparing indictments?

[CorpGovActivist]

29. A Magificent Question!

"Does all of this depend on Democrats winning next Tuesday?Or are there independent grand juries preparing indictments?"

1. Democrats winning next Tuesday would be that much more helpful; but

2. A loss would not impede the separate enforcement actions of career prosecutors, which could:

3. Result in a "post-election" tip of the balance, with resignations being necessitated by the evidence that emerges.

You've heard of a guy named Jack Abramoff, right?

Have you actually seen which "key" GOP lawmakers were on the business end of his campaign cash?

Just type in 'Abramoff' in the first box, and 'Jack' in the second, to reveal such things as the fact that he is a Friend of George Allen: http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/com_detail/C00344853/

If you follow those links, you'll find that the Friends of George Allen list is so big, it needs a separate page for different letters of the alphabet. Here's A (page 1 of 2, showing that Allen supports the Abramoff Agenda of public corruption): http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/com_ind/C00344853/1/A/

If the servers are a bit slow, please note: you're competing for bandwidth with career prosecutors, looking into George Allen's activities.

- Dave

[Straight Shooter]

28. SCJ Alito figures into this, too, doesn't he?

He's a buffer for these criminals, isn't he, if ultimate push comes to ultimate shove.

Is it possible for this case to end up before the Supreme Court?

[CorpGovActivist]

31. Alito, Yes, But Antonin Scalia Will Be Forced to Recuse Himself...

... or step down:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=eugene+scalia+solicitor+labor+elaine+chao+enron

- Dave

[requiem99]

34. Just because Google knows about it doesn't mean America cares enough to know

This is why we are in the current predicament in the first place. I'm totally convinced the media could spin anything at this point, even permanent martial law and GWB declared King For Life. I have no faith whatsoever in this country, as a population, to pay attention to vital threats to their liberty, nor to take any action whatsoever to stop it.

Because the majority do not appreciate their freedom enough to protect it, all will soon suffer the wrath of state oppression. It's going to come as a shock.

[CorpGovActivist]

35. I Take a More Optimistic View...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=americans+always+do+the+right+thing+churchill+exhausted+other+all

- Dave

[requiem99]

38. I hope you are right, but I fear longer view history (lack of one) is about to bite us in the ass.

UNLESS we turn an about face, and quickly.

[CorpGovActivist]

39. The System's Cogs...

... are designed for nimble movement, when needed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution

- Dave

[Straight Shooter]

36. He didn't recuse himself in a prior case; I can't remember specifics.

So much garbage to wade through with Cheney, but there was a case -- the Energy Policy perhaps? -- and Scalia did not recuse himself despite his close friendship/association with Cheney.

I think the ethically-challenged conservatives on our current Supreme Court make a mockery of justice. I really do. In his past, Alito refused to recuse himself from a case where he had a vested interest in the defendant company, and yet that issue barely gained any traction during the hearings, although it alarmed me to a great degree. That is my concern, the higher up this case goes, which of course will be years in the courts if history is any indication.

This thread is an excellent idea. I see some very attuned questions directed towards you. :thumbsup:

[CorpGovActivist]

37. Scalia Will Recuse Himself in a Case Involving His Son...

... as a central figure, I'm sure of that much.

Otherwise, Antonin Scalia will be looking at the "good behavior" clause: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Three_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Section_1:_The_federal_courts

- Dave

[Straight Shooter]

45. I see.

I did not dig deeply enough. Interesting that bush rewarded Scalia's son with such a plum position in the Labor Department.

============

Going back further in time, the law firm for whom Scalia's son worked is the same law firm which represented bush in bush vs. gore, and that didn't stop Fat Tony. I suppose they did not consider the connection to be strong enough, although it sure helped the law firm and of course his son when Scalia voted in favor of bush. Scalia reeks of the stench of favoritism.

"It's bad enough that Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia has one son whose law partner is arguing the Bush case before him, but now CNN reports that a second son, John Scalia, "accepted a position with the Miami-based firm Greenberg Traurig on November 7. The next day, Barry Richard, a partner in the firm, said he was called about representing Bush in Florida." Richard argued the Bush case before the Florida Supreme Court and Scalia has struck down that court's decision in the case. This is beginning to stink, particularly since the AP has reported that "federal law says judges should disqualify themselves from cases in which their child is known to have 'an interest that could be substantially affected by the outcome of the proceeding." Applying the same criteria Scalia used to conclude that Bush would be "substantially affected" by the Florida vote count, it's clear that his sons would be "substantially affected" by Bush victories in the U.S. Supreme Court. It appears that Scalia, like Bush, believes that he is above the law. --Politex, 12/11/00"

http://www.bushwatch.com/bushdec3.htm

Anyway, I don't want this thread to get off-track. Thanks for the info. :hi:

[CorpGovActivist]

46. The Scalia Tentacle...

... is not off-track.

: )

Remind me sometime, to dig out the letter I sent to Scalia and the other Justices after Bush v. Gore.

- Dave

[Straight Shooter]

47. I would love to read that letter.

Now I must really get to work. Being self-employed requires discipline.

Do you realize how much time I invested in you and Ides yesterday? Heh.

:hi:

[CorpGovActivist]

49. Sorry about That...

... I can commiserate with the self-employed thing.

The only one cracking that cat o' nine tails is you, yourself, and you!

: )

- Dave

[CorpGovActivist]

44. Keep 'em comin'...

"This thread is an excellent idea. I see some very attuned questions directed towards you."

If this stuff isn't going to come out now, when?

- Dave

[bobbieinok]

196. bush vs gore -- Scalia + Thomas should have recused themselves

One Scalia son was partner in firm that argued for W in FL; another was partner in firm that argued for W at SCOTUS.

Thomas' wife was working for Heritage Foundation (?) on lining up candidates for jobs in W administration.

They really don't care about the law.... and NO ONE challenges their blatant disregard of it.

[jmowreader]

32. I don't think it could

The Supreme Court's main purpose in life is to determine the constitutionality of various laws.

Forget, for just a second, that they are also the main reason George Bush is able to be on the cusp of declaring himself President for Life instead of standing on a traffic island in Waco with a dirty rag asking if he can wash stopped motorists' windshields. They're supposed to do a straight up/down on the constitutionality of various laws presented to them.

We know the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, and the Racketeering-influenced, Corrupt Organizations Act, are both constitutional.

We also know the defendants that will be called, should defendants be called, are approximately as guilty as a cat in a goldfish bowl.

[CorpGovActivist]

33. Where the Supremes May Play a Role...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=interlocutory+rulings+appeal

... never underestimate the power of the likes of BakerBotts, when cornered, to kick appeals up on procedural issues.

- Dave

[requiem99]

40. Ok, I do have a question after all.

Obviously the questions I really want to ask, I can't, because I'm pretty sure the answer to those would both be ones I'm dying to hear and ones that need to be kept secret a while longer. So instead, I'll simply ask this basic question:

Is it too late to stop? Has the investigation gained enough momentum and evidence that, even with Executive AND legislative blocking (assuming Dems do not win back anything even the house) will this break like the monster scandal it is shaping up to be, or could it be turned into another typical Bush administration scandal, with almost nobody accountable?

[CorpGovActivist]

41. Are You a Tolkien Fan?

If so, please know that while the Eye of Sauron has been kept preoccupied, the Ring has reached Mount Doom.

- Dave

[requiem99]

42. Excellent, and a wonderful analogy. WONDERFUL. Made my day in fact.

Edit: And I am not a Tolkien fan.

[CorpGovActivist]

43. I, on the Other Hand...

"And I am not a Tolkien fan."

... am still delighted by his hopeful prose and poetry.

- Dave

[requiem99]

48. It's more that I did not grow up with it.

Fundie parents and all that. Someday I may be a Tolkien fan, but not right now. At this point be glad I'm a dirty lib'rul!

[CorpGovActivist]

50. Start Easy...

... The Hobbit.

- Dave

P.S. Appalachia is - without a doubt - as good a Shire as any place on Earth.

[kestrel91316]

136. Oooohhhhh, as a lifelong LOTR fan, i really like the sound of that

wrt Bushco!

[CorpGovActivist]

148. The Eagles Are Coming!

"All about the hills the hosts of Mordor raged. The Captains of the West were floundering in a gathering sea. The sun gleamed red, and under the wings of the Nazgul the shadows of death fell dark upon the earth. Aragorn stood beneath his banner, silent and stern, as one lost in thought of things long past or far away; but his eyes gleamed like stars that shone the brighter as the night deepens. Upon the hill-top stood Gandalf, and he was white and cold and no shadow fell on him. The onslaught of Mordor broke like a wave on the beleaguered hills, voices roaring like a tide amid the wreck and crash of arms.

As if to his eye some sudden vision had been given, Gandalf stirred; and he turned, looking back north where the skies were pale and clear. Then he lifted up his hands and cried in a loud voice ringing above the din: The Eagles are coming! And many voices answered crying: The Eagles are coming! The Eagles are coming! The hosts of Mordor looked up and wondered what this sign might mean.

...

Straight down upon the Nazgul they bore, stooping suddenly out of the high airs, and the rush of their wide wings as they passed over was like a gale.

But the Nazgul turned and fled, and vanished into Mordor's shadows, hearing a sudden terrible call out of the Dark Tower; and even at that moment all the hosts of Mordor trembled, doubt clutched at their hearts, their laughter failed, their hands shook and their limbs were loosed. The Power that drove them on and filled them with hate and fury was wavering, its will was removed from them; and now looking in the eyes of their enemies they saw a deadly light and were afraid."

I think that chapter is titled: "When Dick Cheney, Lord of Mordor, Got Served with the Summons."

- Dave

[conscious evolution]

166. lol

:spray: :woohoo:

[CorpGovActivist]

180. "Then all the Captains...

... of the West cried aloud, for their hearts were filled with a new hope in the midst of darkness. Out from the beleaguered hills knights of Gondor, Riders of Rohan, Dunedain of the North, close-serried companies, drove against their wavering foes, piercing the press with the thrust of bitter spears. But Gandalf lifted up his arms and called once more in a clear voice:

'Stand, Men of the West! Stand and wait! This is the hour of doom.'

And even as he spoke the earth rocked beneath their feet. Then rising swiftly up, far above the Towers of the Black Gate, high above the mountains, a vast soaring darkness sprang into the sky, flickering with fire. The earth groaned and quaked. The Towers of the Teeth swayed, tottered, and fell down; the mighty rampart crumbled; the Black Gate was hurled in ruin; and from far away, now dim, now growing, now mounting to the clouds, there came a drumming rumble, a roar, a long echoing roll of ruinous noise.

'The realm of Sauron is ended! said Gandalf. 'The Ring-bearer has fulfilled his Quest.' And as the Captains gazed south to the Land of Mordor, it seemed to them that, black against the pall of cloud, there rose a huge shape of shadow, impenetrable, lightning-crowned, filling all the sky. Enormous it reared above the world, and stretched out towards them a vast threatening hand, terrible but impotent: for even as it leaned over them, a great wind took it, and it was all blown away, and passed; and then a hush fell."

Seriously: something is wrong with the voting machines they use here in Alexandria, Virginia. Mine doesn't do any of that.

; )

- Dave

[IdesOfOctober]

183. Hearing David read Tolkien to kids...

... is out of this world. Hell, he keeps adults spellbound.

As I've posted elsewhere, David is an INTJ. So is Gandalf.

Since you know the stories, you know that Gandalf moved among the various peoples of Middle Earth, rallying them to common cause, rallying them to be their better selves. David's friends nod knowingly, when they read: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=gandalf+deadly+sword+healing+hand+back+that+bent+beneath+its+load+swift+in+anger+quick+to+laugh

David collects fine friends and fine writers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inklings

He has even described some of them as The Appalachian Inklings: http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=appalachian+inklings&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=groups.yahoo.com&as_rights=&safe=images

Morgan Spurlock and David both are Camp SAGA alumni: http://www.google.com/search?q=morgan+spurlock+writing++%22Camp+SAGA%22+site:blogs.indiewire.com&hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&filter=0

Morgan has been nominated for an Academy Award. We're all still waiting to see what David gets nominated for - and some of us have money riding on a Nobel.

Ides

[kestrel91316]

184. What is an "INTJ"?

[IdesOfOctober]

186. It's one of the ways that...

... many Federal agencies (and even many companies) test personality, temperament, and intelligence.

There are several versions of the test online: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=myers+briggs+typelogic

[kestrel91316]

188. Hmmmm, that INTJ sounds a lot like me, lol!

[Blackhatjack]

52. Is This Not Another "Follow The Money" Scandal???

If Cheney takes a big hit, I predict it will be because of his greed.

The truly corrupt seek power not just for the purpose of wielding it, but rather to use it as a tool to satisfy their insatiable hunger for more wealth.

Is this a fair characterization of what will bring Cheney down?

[CorpGovActivist]

53. Cheney Deserves to Be Studied...

... to truly get at his motivations:



Honestly, I think he's pathological in his belief that the ends justify the means.

But yes, this is THE "follow the money" scandal of our time. (Aren't the really big GOP scandals *always*?)

- Dave

[kineneb]

55. Oh.My.

there is more stinky poop here than at a pig farm...

Suggestion, CGA: you, Ides, and Octafish ought to team up. There are all sorts of "loose" threads that each of you have posted, many with the same cast of unsavory characters. I have read most of your (plural) posts, but it might be nice to bring them together in some sort of grand timeline... (I realize this might be impossible).

These cretins have their fingers (or tentacles) in so many pies- it is hard to keep track of what nastiness they have done or are doing.

Just a idea from a fellow DU poster.

thanks,
-kineneb

[CorpGovActivist]

56. The Interactive Timeline Feature...

... is a recurring suggestion, and one that will be rolled out soon. I'd gladly welcome others' contributions to it.

- Dave

http://www.HALwhistleblowers.org
http://www.BushBunglesBrigade.org

[Blackhatjack]

58. The 'daisy chain' is a longstanding tool of obfuscation and confusion...

... where it is easier and quicker to create more and more shell corporations and entities than it is to run them down in an investigation. The constant movement of funds and documents and individuals between the various entities becomes very difficult to catch up with unless you grab the individuals creating this never ending web of deception.

I suspect that the various 'tentacles' are separated into different legal entities in name only, and the same cast of bad actors are behind them all.

[Buttercup McToots]

66. Bingo

That's why I keep gettin` dizzy:crazy:

[Blackhatjack]

59. Are Any of the MSM Clued In On What Is Coming? ABC, CBS, NBC??

I would not trust them with anything until the dam breaks with indictments announced.

[CorpGovActivist]

60. Funny You Should Put It That Way...

... I keep getting the same advice, over and over on that score.

: )

They'll report it *once* it's impossible not to.

- Dave

[Blackhatjack]

137. Reason I asked is the MSM seems to have a backchannel for sharing info...

... with the bad actors that they should be investigating.

I was not advocating that you cultivate the MSM to bring this story out prematurely. I was cautioning against sharing info at an inopportune time. I think the MSM could be more damaging than helpful.

The only two individuals I would consider are Sy Hersh and KO. However, in each case there is a corporate entity with which they must deal before a story goes out tot he public. Even so, they seem to still subscribe to journalistic standards that others have abandoned.

[CorpGovActivist]

153. The MSM Back Channel...

1. Sometimes, it's just a "green" reporter's fact-checking that tips them off.

2. Other times, it's much more insidious - a seasoned reporter feigns interest, gets down the details, and then rushes off to inform.

"I was not advocating that you cultivate the MSM to bring this story out prematurely. I was cautioning against sharing info at an inopportune time. I think the MSM could be more damaging than helpful."

My very first job out of college was answering the phones and running the front office for a major PR firm. The founder, Andrea Cunningham, was one of the creative geniuses behind the launch of Apple with the "1984" ad blitz. She went by "Andy," and it was always fun when people pretending to be friends with "Andy" would ask for "him": http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=andrea+cunningham

Even in the IT trade rags, you'd get that phenom: a reporter who wanted a "sneak peak" at one of our clients' gadgets, who'd then tip off the competition about the features. We worked with some incredible technologies, and the MA office was right on the edge of the MIT campus - at the height of dotcom. Tom Clancy and Lou Gerstner are nice guys to talk with, and I keep my company award on my shelf. I urge college grads not to ever be afraid to "start at the bottom" - you learn more.

"The only two individuals I would consider are Sy Hersh and KO. However, in each case there is a corporate entity with which they must deal before a story goes out tot he public. Even so, they seem to still subscribe to journalistic standards that others have abandoned."

I'm always - ALWAYS - open to exploring new MSM channels, but I've got 10+ years of winnowing my Rolodex. The book I'd really like to write is the one about the "journalists" who aren't.

- Dave

[antigop]

162. Lou Gerstner is a nice guy??????????

Talk to the IBM employees who jobs got outsourced, pensions reduced, and retiree medical cut.

A nice guy??????

[CorpGovActivist]

171. Demeanor...

... only.

And the traditional pension conversion was a farce.

Thanks for the pushback on that. The IBM pension plan decision was terrible precedent for others, too.

- Dave

[antigop]

192. Lou Gerstner is now head of Carlyle Group

n/t

[IdesOfOctober]

193. Holy crap...

... David, how'd you miss that?

antiGOP, you should send David a PM on that, to make sure he sees it.

Ides

[midnight]

159. Since they won't report it, We The People Will.

[CorpGovActivist]

176. We the People, Today, Are Better Equipped Than Ben Franklin!

Seriously. Ben would be the blogmeister, if he were alive today!

: )

- Dave

[hootinholler]

62. I've thunk about it and...

I want to know if Sibel Edmonds and Valeri Plame are potential witnesses.

-Hoot

[CorpGovActivist]

63. I Deeply Admire...

... Valerie Plame, and can foresee her testimony being quite useful to some aspects of this.

- Dave

[hootinholler]

64. Interesting

Sibel omitted due to the gag order or otherwise?

-Hoot

[CorpGovActivist]

65. Picked up on That...

... didja?

; )

- Dave

[Buttercup McToots]

67. David

See this?

http://www.wonkette.com/politics/dick-cheney/shreddin-with-dick-211028.php

[CorpGovActivist]

70. He Doesn't Understand How "The E-Mail" Works...

... shredding his printouts won't do him any good.

Let him shred.

- Dave

[Buttercup McToots]

73. BWHAHA!

:rofl:
Yer absolutely right...

[CorpGovActivist]

74. Dick Cheney Is a Dinosaur...

... time for him to get off the world stage.

He apparently learned nothing during his exile from the Nixon/Ford years.

Ditto for Rummy.

- Dave

[Buttercup McToots]

75. I think

he looks like the devil...

[CorpGovActivist]

76. I Think He Looks Like...

... an indictment waiting to happen.

- Dave

[hootinholler]

78. Exile?

I beg to differ... I think they were laying foundations. Think what tehy might have accomplished if they were better masons.

-Hoot

[CorpGovActivist]

79. "Better Masons"

http://www.gwmemorial.org/

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=benjamin+franklin+freemason

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=joseph+warren+freemason

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=john+hancock+freemason

I couldn't have said it better myself.

- Dave

[hootinholler]

68. I think I need to personally feed you scotch until I get answers.

:evilgrin:

In Vino, Veritas!

This would then seem wrap up the Dick fairly nicely, but, I'm having trouble bringing Rummy and W along for the ride.

-Hoot

[CorpGovActivist]

71. W Stands for Wingless Duck - Not Lame Duck

That's my prediction.

- Dave

[flyarm]

142. or the Kiwi bird..........wingless and secretive...

http://www.chemistry.co.nz/kiwibird.htm

[CorpGovActivist]

72. You're right...

... and "liquor is quicker!"

: )

- Dave

[CorpGovActivist]

69. April 4, 2006, Was a Red Letter Day...

... looking back through the records:

There was quite a bit of House and Senate activity on one of my websites on April 4th. This was the day that one of the MC's staff put me in a room, with high-speed Internet access, and had me pull over redundant copies of data.

The IP addresses:

143.231.X.X (house.gov)

156.33.X.X (senate.gov)

156.33.X.X (senate.gov)

156.33.X.X (senate.gov)

Since that time, there has been a lot of various ".gov" traffic.

- Dave

[Buttercup McToots]

80. Fitz

Is he invited to the party...perhaps you answered this b/4 many many threads ago...?

[CorpGovActivist]

82. I Would Pour His Drink Myself!

Aye!

- Dave

[Buttercup McToots]

83. But

I don't trust AG.

[CorpGovActivist]

85. Lil' Alberto?

Oh, no: lil' Alberto may find that his career prosecutors have some questions for him, too.

- Dave

[IdesOfOctober]

87. I appeal to the court of Buttercup McToots!

Your Honor: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2505106&mesg_id=2512217

Please over-rule Straight Shooter, when you get around to it.

Yours humbly,

Ides

[hootinholler]

77. Do we out here have all the pieces of the puzzle yet?

I mean I hate it when you're doing a jigsaw and you have big blank areas 'cause some schmuck stepped on the box lid and pieces are missing. At this point, I'm not even sure that all the pieces I do have belong to the same puzzle.

BTW, fun game.

-Hoot

[CorpGovActivist]

81. A New Batch of Puzzle Pieces...

... are scheduled for delivery every day between now and November 7th.

: )

Collect each batch.

- Dave

P.S. KKKarl doesn't like this game. Can't triangulate, and can't thread the needle.

[Buttercup McToots]

84. Hey MSM David Shuster

is now talking about guess who...?
George Allen...arrest record...divorce papers...
First time I've heard them speakin the same speak as DU.
Hey, ye think they are reading us?

[CorpGovActivist]

86. I Think There Are Some Very Savvy People Here...

... with "golden Rolodexes," if you know what I mean.

; )

- Dave

[IdesOfOctober]

90. A few ...

... platinum, jewel-encrusted ones, too!

; )

Ides

[Swamp Rat]

94. Smoke 'em out!

:D

[DemReadingDU]

132. ah, the Davids,

Excellent reporters...

David Shuster and David Gregory

not a David, but must also include Keith Olbermann!


and Thank you, David Smith for this great thread today!

[CorpGovActivist]

149. Let's Do It Again...

... today is a whole new day.

: )

- Dave

[Mnemosyne]

88. Some quotes for you David.

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." -Martin Luther King Jr.
Thank you for not remaining silent.

When even one American-who has done nothing wrong-is forced by fear to shut his mind and close his mouth-then all Americans are in peril: Harry S. Truman
Don't let them harass and intimidate you into silence.

"Some explanations of a crime are not explanations: they’re part of the crime.": Olavo de Cavarlho
Can hardly wait to hear their explanations!

It is to be regretted that the rich and powerful too often bend the acts of government to their selfish purposes." : Andrew Jackson - (1767-1845) 7th US President 1832
Halliburton = selfish purposes from selfish people.

“Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” : Frederick Douglass - 1818 - 1895
Thank you for making this demand!

Men do less than they ought, unless they do all that they can. -- Thomas Carlyle
Again; thank you.

Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God: Benjamin Franklin
You rebel you!

Action expresses priorities.
Mohandas Gandhi
And your priorities are in the right place.

Just had to toss this one in!
“Don’t shoot until you see the whites of their eyes!” General Israel Putnam - my ggg? grandfather!

Stay safe! :hug:

[CorpGovActivist]

89. We Lived on Bunker Hill!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Putnam

Never got tired of taking family and friends to the monument, or to Old Ironsides!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunker_Hill_Monument

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Ironsides

One of my very best friends in the world is related to a Naval officer who - by all rights - ought to be remembered in the same breath with John Paul Jones: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Barry_%281745-1803%29

Thank you for the quotes. I've got a bookshelf full of quotes books, and love stumbling across new ones.

: )

- Dave

P.S. If you're ever there, eat at the Warren Tavern. The food is fantastic, they pour a mean pint, and you're literally right there where so many of the day's leaders gathered!

http://www.warrentavern.com/history.htm

[FogerRox]

93. Dave, you mentioned Abram jackoff

I would like to take a shot in the dark.

INTERNATIONAL FREEDOM FOUNDATION

SINGLAUB JOHN K

DICKENS SAMUEL T

Bob Dole

Lisa Baron

SCANLON MICHAEL

SELLARS DUNCAN W

Jack Abramoff

xxxx

Any dots being connected?

[CorpGovActivist]

95. You're in Some Pretty Deep Waters There, Ain'tcha?

: )

With a long memory like that, you're dangerous!

- Dave

P.S. Working with any Hill committees on that?

[FogerRox]

96. Its all public info, LOL. Lemme try another, just a couple a minutes...

Henrry Cabot Lodge knows David Smith, LOL.

[CorpGovActivist]

97. And Lodges Speak Only...

... http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=boston+land+of+bean+and+the+cod+where+the+cabots+speak+only+to+lodges+only+to+god

- Dave

[FogerRox]

100. HE was nominated for 2 Pulizters.........

[CorpGovActivist]

101. For Which Books?

http://www.pulitzer.org/

And what gives with Profiles in Courage, anyway?

; )

- Dave

[FogerRox]

98. Haliburton

Joe Lopez (ADM)

Henry Waxman A

John Dingell

MOBBS MICHAEL H

Herman & George Brown

DAvid Wilson

Erle P. Haliburton

David Gribbon

[CorpGovActivist]

99. Admiral Lopez

*ding*

- Dave

P.S. Next county over from where I grew up. Only Boorda and he share the distinction.

[FogerRox]

102. Ahh yes, joined up about July 20, 1999

[CorpGovActivist]

103. The Reasons for His Departure...

... are of interest to a prosecutor eager for a breakthrough.

- Dave

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=admiral+lopez+halliburton

[FogerRox]

104. I keep running into Gribbons though

ANd he hits on Dresser IND. Additionally ARMSTRONG ANNE LEGENDRE keeps popping up.

Gribbins, I mean... (SP)

[CorpGovActivist]

106. Don't...

... fly on any small planes.

: )

- Dave

[CorpGovActivist]

109. Incidentally, Admiral Lopez...

... played a critical role in the Arlington, Virginia offices of Halliburton/KBR (the Federal Practice), where I worked: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=admiral+lopez+kbr

He took special interest in the handful of Mountaineers in the office.

- Dave

[CorpGovActivist]

105. Lack of "Public" Bites...

... don't misconstrue my failure to bite publicly on the other names.

You've got a hot potato there with Admiral Lopez.

- Dave

[FogerRox]

107. PM on the way

[CorpGovActivist]

108. Probably Best ...

... that hits awfully close to the nerve center of at least one ongoing investigation.

- Dave

[FogerRox]

110. Its tuff to keep with you, Sometimes ....I know where to look,

but Broadband is only so good, I got a feeling you dont really need DSL.

[CorpGovActivist]

112. I'm Wondering Whether...

... having the eye of the Cabots and Lodges on me is worrisome!

; )

"Its tuff to keep with you, Sometimes ....I know where to look, but Broadband is only so good, I got a feeling you dont really need DSL."

:rofl:

Speed is good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_net

So are: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countermeasures

So is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterintelligence

And open systems? God love 'em!

- Dave

[FogerRox]

118. I think that David Smith and Henry Cabot was a false hit

That David Smith worked with Ralph & CONEIN

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=HPID,HPID:2006-33,HPID:en&q=Ralph+Johnson+%26+CONEIN+LUCIEN%2e

[CorpGovActivist]

120. Oh! That's a Relief!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabot_family

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=where+cabots+speak+only+to+lodges+boston+bean+cod

: )

- Dave

P.S. I bet *he* wouldn't have mis-directed the e-mails to the wrong David Smith!

[FogerRox]

111. Pretty handy shovel for digging, dont ya think?

[CorpGovActivist]

115. And the Supreme Irony Is...

... the Law of Unintended Consequences took a wartime weapon, and put it in the hands of We the People!

Much better than Tang or Velcro!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arpanet

- Dave

[FogerRox]

119. I am crazy about that shit

I watched Apollo 8, go 'round the moon, christmas eve '67, w/binocs. Of course that was back in the hey day, now isn't SEAN C OKEEFE running NASA?

[CorpGovActivist]

121. You Gotta Give Me Your E-Mail...

... I worked with a guy who was in the basement during that mission (IT group).

Because it was a holiday, and they'd been required to come in, they were permitted to listen in to the audio.

There was a snafu - and a very tense moment - on the calculation with one of the "burns." Mission control had to have them repeat the calculation, which was fine, after all. If the first relayed data had been right, they wouldn't have been on their way back.

He did a fascinating whiteboard of it for me. More people should listen to the "old timers," dontcha think?

- Dave

[FogerRox]

125. Someday I'll grow up & be an olde timer.

[CorpGovActivist]

126. To Hell with the Growing ...

... up part!

; )

- Dave

[FogerRox]

128. Shit that is the same SEAN C OKEEFE , who used to run

NASA, I wonder how he fitted into that circle, damn.

[FogerRox]

130. HIs bio is missing

http://www.gao.gov/a76panel/bios/okeefe.html

[sarcasmo]

91. I want to know what Cheney has made from his Halliburton stock

since taking office.

[IdesOfOctober]

92. See the notes about...

... executive compensation in the latest annual report: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/45012/000004501206000124/0000045012-06-000124-index.htm

See the tool for "top hat" plans: http://www.freeerisa.com/ (free registration)

Other useful searches include:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=cheney%27s+financial+disclosures

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=cheney%27s+%22blind+trust%22

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=annual+financial+disclosure+vice+president+cheney

Ides

[stop the bleeding]

113. These are some of the most fascinating bunch of threads that I have

the pleasure of reading for a very long long long time.

The questions by Blackhatjack - especially #7 intrigues me and the bit later on about Plame and Sibel.

Also will have to see if the MSM besides Schuster and what not pick this up.


Very fascinating indeed - no questions here still trying to digest some of this information.

[CorpGovActivist]

114. The Administration's Epitaph Will Be...

"The Google Got 'Em!"

:rofl:

- Dave

P.S. With some help from a dolt of a Halliburton attorney.

P.P.S. Thank you, and I'll do my best to answer Blackhatjack's other questions as it becomes feasible. Fire away with your own.

[lovuian]

122. Heres a question did Sarbanes Oxley help you

Just wondering is this why Cheney wants to get rid of it

[CorpGovActivist]

123. Senator Sarbanes' Senate Offices...

... are right across the hallway from Senator Byrd's (they are tucked in one corner): http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

The entire nation owes Paul Sarbanes an enormous debt of gratitude: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbanes

The answer to your question, simply stated, is a resounding, "Yes, it carried the day, and Sarbanes-Oxley II is needed (to pick up where the first act left off)!"

- Dave

P.S. But don't forget Congressman Oxley (a Republican): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Oxley

[lovuian]

127. I kinda figured it did... I have friends who police using sarbanes

oxley... and it really makes stealing in these companies very difficult
especially the overseas accounts

and then there is the CFO who has to sign it and this really nails the Chairman of the Board

Ya this haunts Cheney

Thanks

[CorpGovActivist]

129. All You Have to Do...

... is look at the quarterly reports now (the Form 10-Qs): http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?type=10-q&dateb=&owner=include&count=40&action=getcompany&CIK=hal

Take the most recent: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/45012/000004501206000275/0000045012-06-000275-index.htm

See those certifications that have to be signed as part of the report now? Dick Cheney's successor, David J. Lesar, keeps on signing them (digging deeper, and deeper, and deeper):

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/45012/000004501206000275/exhibit_31-1.htm

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/45012/000004501206000275/exhibit_32-1.htm

- Dave

[CorpGovActivist]

124. SOX Enhanced ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistleblower#Whistleblower_law

- Dave

P.S. SOX = Sarbanes-Oxley, especially used in corporate defense lawyer circles: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22business+roundtable%22+sarbanes+sox

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22chamber+of+commerce%22+sarbanes+sox

[Buttercup McToots]

131. Dear Hardy Boys...

Good Nicht, and sleep well, an` stay safe...
Buttercup:-)


ps
LOCK THE DOORS

[xiamiam]

133. well, i applaud you...

have been shaking my head for the past several years as Cheney, Halliburton KBR, etc have been robbing the coffers right under our noses...whatever happened to bunnatine greenhouse?..and i sometimes must agree with the poster above who has given up hope on us ..the majority of americans to actually think or do something...

and then you come along with one of the most informative threads ..a little convoluted..maybe you could just make a chart with all arrows pointing to cheney..i have known instinctively that he is up to his eyeballs in dirty work.. there is something strange..just not morally or ethically human emanating from him..how much money do these people need anyway?..i heard john dean call him a 'zealot'..he said he didnt believe he was evil..i get a different read..

i am so grateful to read that there are cases about to pop..this and a trip to the hague couldnt happen to a more deserving guy...or group ..thanks..

[CorpGovActivist]

150. I Share the Cheney = Zealot Theory

I think Cheney looked evil in the face, early in his life, and it permanently scarred his response to it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Cheney#Early_White_House_appointments

I honestly believe that Cheney is a "true believer" that the devil's bargains made by the Administrations he's worked for have "kept America safe," and I believe that he lacks the capacity to examine whether we'd be safer (and on honorably good terms with more of the world), had we pursued other foreign policies instead.

He's not a great thinker: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Cheney#Cheney_and_the_draft

But he's extremely shrewd.

By now, Cheney is pretty much pathological in his beliefs. I can almost see them leading him away, screaming to the American people, "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!"

- Dave

[Oilwellian]

134. (Waving arms wildly) I have a question!

Does this scandal have anything to do with the "tectonic shift" mentioned by a well known blogger, oh, about 2 years ago?

[CorpGovActivist]

151. Not Familiar...

... who you're talking about there. Throw me a lifeline?

- Dave

P.S. I do, however, believe that - managed well - the oversight hearings could produce a permanent realignment to the American electoral landscape, with some purplish border states turning bluish.

[pacalo]

135. It's not often that I find a thread with this much intrigue.

I've been on this thread for over an hour or so now, including wandering off to CorpGovActivist's journal.

Wow. I sure hope Halliburton & every single person that has benefited from the spoils of this illegal war in Iraq is tried & convicted.

Thanks for an excellent read.

[upi402]

138. It's such an honor having folks like this give their

time to DU and lives to America.

David's giving me hope again, just a little, but maybe enough to keep going.

[pacalo]

140. You said it, upi.

I'm hopeful, but I've become somewhat jaded by so many letdowns. This thread definitely put a smile on my face, though, & motivated me to seek out more information. I wish we had more information about when this will explode into 24/7 coverage. (Maybe I'm not so jaded, after all. ;) )

[upi402]

141. 24/7 coverage from OUR media

Lord lord lord, it must be medicine time!!!
:hug:

[pacalo]

144. For sure!

And :popcorn:

C-Span is going to be busy, hopefully!

[CorpGovActivist]

164. C-SPAN...

... may have to develop a whole new set of tools to handle the spike!

: )

- Dave

[pacalo]

194. Hahaa! I was wondering myself if they had enough bandwidth

to handle the flow!

:popcorn:

[CorpGovActivist]

161. George Washington Grew Jaded, Too, Believe It Or Not!

His letters home to his brother, especially, reveal a side of him that few know: http://etext.virginia.edu/washington/fitzpatrick/

He grew discouraged - just like us.

He had down days - just like us.

Sometimes he wanted to just pack it in - just like us.

To honor his gift, we must be just like him, though.

We must rally from our despair - just like him.

We must saddle up for battle once more - just like him.

We must welcome newcomers to the camp - just like him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_forge

If Washington had given up that dreadful winter, all would have been lost.

If Washington had turned away the help of the foreign military experts who showed up that dreadful winter, all would have been lost.

If Washington had given into his own private gloom and doom, all would have been lost.

He drew inspiration from the privations and hardships endured by his own men. As an officer, he enjoyed certain creature comforts that they did not. However, this was not lost on him, as his letters home bear out. He was in awe of their fortitude.

It has been a long and cruel "winter at Valley Forge," but - so help me - it has also been a time of retraining, drilling, and retooling.

Don't throw down your musket now. Check your powder. Roll your musket balls. Get ready to march!

: )

If all else fails, read this little pamphlet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Sense_%28pamphlet%29

- Dave

[pacalo]

195. I'm very, very impressed with you.

And I'm so glad you're here at DU! I'd love to see a thread between you & DUers like H2O Man & Octafish.

[CorpGovActivist]

156. Hope Wildly!

Hope with abandon. Hope with enthusiasm.

But also act to fulfill that hope.

There are people much smarter - and much savvier - than KKKarl Rove working on this, but EVERYONE here can do their part.

- Dave

[CorpGovActivist]

152. It's Pretty Simple at Its Core...

... thankfully, and easily turned into a primer that will have "apoliticial voters" tuning in.

"Wow. I sure hope Halliburton & every single person that has benefited from the spoils of this illegal war in Iraq is tried & convicted."

The capos and the dons, for sure, need to be convicted; Ike was not only right, he was downright prescient: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=military+industrial+complex. Plus, he had Crohn's (I can't imagine his agony in those days, under what he went through, with the state of medicine then): http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=eisenhower+crohn%27s+emergency+surgery.

- Dave

[radfringe]

143. 4 questions

1. With Iran-Contra - Ollie North pretty much was the fall-guy. It's debatable whether he jumped or was pushed, while the bigger-wigs and others got off fairly unscathed.

Are we looking at something similar? With one or two middle-people ending up taking all the blame? And not all the questions were answered with that little scandal..

2. The cast of characters from Iran-Contra and the current bush mis-administration are similar - similar enough to be connected with this Halliburton investigation?

3. I know from reading up on PNAC, the "players" are very much involved within the bush mis-administration - how far do these tentacles extend?
You've hinted that this is more than just military contracts and it's connections to Iraq and bush's social security proposal is part of it. Are we also looking at connections to other legislation such as the prescription drugs, the bankruptcy legislation, tort reform, energy bill, the spikes in gas prices, wealthy-fare tax cuts?

4. Any connection to the elections (2000, 2002, 2004 and 2006) and voting "irregularities"? Diebold? It's just strange that the exit polling during these election cycles suddenly became "erroneous" when in the past it's been pretty accurate for predicting outcomes.

[Buttercup McToots]

145. Good Morning All

:)

[CorpGovActivist]

165. Mrs. McToots...

... I hope the new day has brought with it a renewed sense of hope and purpose!

We have 1 week left.

: )

- Dave

[Buttercup McToots]

167. Beside ye

I'm right beside ye, laddio
Watchin` yer back...

[CorpGovActivist]

172. "Do Not Walk Behind Me...

for I may not lead.
Do not walk ahead of me,
for I may not follow.

Walk beside me, and just be my friend." -- Albert Camus

Now, W has recently claimed (*snicker*) that he's been reading Camus.

Apparently, he doesn't comprehend it.

- Dave

[CorpGovActivist]

163. Good Questions!

"1. With Iran-Contra - Ollie North pretty much was the fall-guy. It's debatable whether he jumped or was pushed, while the bigger-wigs and others got off fairly unscathed.

Are we looking at something similar? With one or two middle-people ending up taking all the blame? And not all the questions were answered with that little scandal.."

Hell, no! One huge - ENORMOUS - difference this time: the Internet is widespread, not just the private plaything of academia and the defense sector.

Iran-Contra broke in 1986: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_contra

Bush 41 issued pardons that were likened to the Saturday Night Massacre, in his lame duck period: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._W._Bush#Pardons

The reason was simple: Bush 41 was complicit, and Caspar was nobody's patsy. If he was going down, he was going down hard.

I also urge you and others to revisit BCCI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_Credit_and_Commerce_International

If you recall, we had Oliver North and his admin shredding documents in Iran-Contra. Today, though, electronic communications - by their very nature - make it much more difficult to destroy all the copies of incriminating evidence.

Exhibit A: the mis-directed e-mails intended for David R. Smith, VP of Tax at Halliburton.

"2. The cast of characters from Iran-Contra and the current bush mis-administration are similar - similar enough to be connected with this Halliburton investigation?"

The current cast of characters didn't spring from Zeus's head, like Athena, knowing the "tricks of the trade," so to speak. They've learned from the best - and bungled like the worst. They're like the second or third generation of a Mafia family. They got sloppy - "big time".

"3. I know from reading up on PNAC, the 'players' are very much involved within the bush mis-administration - how far do these tentacles extend?
You've hinted that this is more than just military contracts and it's connections to Iraq and bush's social security proposal is part of it. Are we also looking at connections to other legislation such as the prescription drugs, the bankruptcy legislation, tort reform, energy bill, the spikes in gas prices, wealthy-fare tax cuts?"

Most Americans define the term "to govern" as meaning something like, "to be entrusted with the stewardship of the ship of state, for a temporary period, to be managed with care and prudence - however humanly flawed - for the common good."

The cabal currently in control of the Executive Office of the President defines it much more simply: "to control everything, and to rig the system to keep it that way, even when we don't hold office".

"4. Any connection to the elections (2000, 2002, 2004 and 2006) and voting 'irregularities'? Diebold? It's just strange that the exit polling during these election cycles suddenly became 'erroneous' when in the past it's been pretty accurate for predicting outcomes."

If you have not already done so, I urge you to buy at least 1 share of Diebold. Why press your face to the window pane, and try to peer in as an outsider? Become an owner, and insist on answers from the inside.

- Dave

[GaYellowDawg]

146. Here goes...

Please don't take these questions as criticism.

1. Why are you posting this information where it's easily accessible by presumptive defendants? Is it because they're so thoroughly up the creek that it won't help?

2. From what I can tell, it seems that you're being granted access to a bigger picture than that covered by what you've personally witnessed. Was getting this bigger picture a condition of your involvement? Or have you been talking to other informants? Or have prosecutors been encouraging cross-talk so that there will be several people with the big picture in case someone gets on a small plane?

3. How much of what you've implied is a huge thing is going to drop at once? All of it? Or will it be dribbled out in parcels that the Republican noise machine can accomodate?

4. So let's say this is the Alexandrian sword to the noise machine. IIRC, Ford and Reagan got a lot of people out of jail time with pardons. Would any convictions arrive in time for W to grant Presidential pardons, or would the prosecution take this into account with the timing of any trials?

[CorpGovActivist]

168. The Best Questions Always Come...

... from the Doubting Thomases!

; )

"1. Why are you posting this information where it's easily accessible by presumptive defendants? Is it because they're so thoroughly up the creek that it won't help?"

Yes, to your second question, plus: this information, bottled up, does nothing to dispel the doom and gloom some feel. The time to let the genie out of the bottle is now.

"2. From what I can tell, it seems that you're being granted access to a bigger picture than that covered by what you've personally witnessed. Was getting this bigger picture a condition of your involvement? Or have you been talking to other informants? Or have prosecutors been encouraging cross-talk so that there will be several people with the big picture in case someone gets on a small plane?"

Some of the investigators are like a one-way pane of glass. They take information in, and give nothing back. Some of the investigators are much more generous - both purposefully so, and accidentally so. For example, if you're in a room of investigators (inquisitors), and one has been the "silent heavy," it is pretty noticeable when s/he suddenly pounces on a particular aspect of the evidence, and dives in with a barrage of questions on that line. If you're the one sitting in the chair, it doesn't take much to figure out that THAT sub-thread is the one that this particular "principal investigator in the room" is most concerned with, at the moment. Some investigators just flat out say, "What you have given us fits in with (fill in the blank), and now the two of you have mutually reinforced one another's evidence." Then, in the hallways, you bump into people. Or, when working with NGOs - non-governmental organizations - they tend to connect informants, so that we can give each other strength, swap war stories, and keep each others' spirits up.

"3. How much of what you've implied is a huge thing is going to drop at once? All of it? Or will it be dribbled out in parcels that the Republican noise machine can accomodate?"

I'd suggest a third option. Roll out Thread #1. Let the White House offer Rationale #1. Roll out Thread #2 - some of which clearly flies in the face of Rationale #1. Let the White House offer Rationale #2, which sort of "threads the needle" on both threads so far. Roll out Thread #3, which really undercuts Rationale #2. Let the White House try again.

"4. So let's say this is the Alexandrian sword to the noise machine. IIRC, Ford and Reagan got a lot of people out of jail time with pardons. Would any convictions arrive in time for W to grant Presidential pardons, or would the prosecution take this into account with the timing of any trials?"

When you see Congressman Waxman bring his gavel down the very first time on C-SPAN, you have just witnessed the Gordian Knot being cut.

Bush's pardon powers do not preclude the House of Representatives from offering articles of impeachment against Cheney: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States. During the course of those hearings, even the recipients of pardons would be subject to Congressional subpoena, to come testify.

Vice President Cheney wasn't doing "fall cleaning" with those shredders, you know. He is the Spiro T. Agnew of this Administration.

- Dave

[xiamiam]

169. please elaborate on this statement

Vice President Cheney wasn't doing "fall cleaning" with those shredders, you know. He is the Spiro T. Agnew of this Administration...

how can giant shredder trucks be rolling up to cheneys house while he is the target of such an investigation...i ust dont get it..

[CorpGovActivist]

173. They Have a Very Broad View...

... of "executive privilege," and how far it extends.

Ever read up on the controversy over the Nixon Papers?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=nixon%27s+papers

- Dave

P.S. I have to laugh, though. Cheney may have gotten rid of some of the worst stuff, but not all of it - not by a long stretch. They should be calling moving trucks for Lynne and him, not shredder trucks. It's over.

[InkAddict]

147. Well, well...see the link in LBN

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2587069&mesg_id=2587069

K&R

[CorpGovActivist]

170. He Doesn't Know the Half of It...

... Cheney may have made a fine class president in a podunk town.

He is also a fine example of the Peter Principle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

Now, he's complaining that the tools available to the actual owners of a company, to oversee the hired help - including the CEO - are too robust?

Sounds like he's worried about something.

- Dave

[CorpGovActivist]

187. Dangling Sub-Threads...

... let's pick it up here, for the benefit of dial-up DUers: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2525128&mesg_id=2525128

If I missed giving a response in Part II, just repost it here.

- Dave

[Blackhatjack]

190. Q- Can you reconcile these Cheney events? ....

This is from memory, so forgive me if the details are not sharp.

Cheney receives a 'request' from Fitzgerald that he turn over all emails related to the Plame leak. I believe that request occurred after he was questioned with Bush, and their counsel, in the Oval Office by Fitz.

The emails turned over were incomplete. Notice is given by Fitz that they believe some emails were erased. Rove is rumored to be 'indicted' or on the verge of being indicted. At the last minute, Rove through his attorney is reported to have 'thrown Cheney under the bus' to save himself, by detailing for Fitz an off-site repository of White House emails, where it is located, and what emails might be 'saved' there of interest to Fitz.

Fitz shows up and gets electronic copies of the emails, compares the list with what Cheney's Office turned over, finds discrepancies and notifies Cheney's counsel. Miraculously, Cheney and his counsel 'find' emails that somehow had been deleted by accident, including a certain memo drafted out of the State Department regarding intentional acts leading to Plame being outed.

Here is the question: How long has Cheney been under surveillance and did the recovered emails referenced above yield valuable information that ties in with the Halliburton corruption probe?

Followup: Why is there not an all out war going on in the White House between Rove and Cheney? And if so, who is Bush supporting in this conflict?

I anticipate that Bush is supporting Rove, since Rove has retained his position in the WH even though Rove should have been gone long ago. Bush cannot jettison Cheney without placing himself in jeopardy for what he knew and when he knew it. And no one wants to be a scapegoat --not Libby, Cheney, Rove, etc. I suspect there are many guns aimed at each other just waiting for the next shoe to drop. All just speculation.

[CorpGovActivist]

191. Answered in Thread III n/t