those that defend police saying it is one or two cops. please explain

[seabeyond]

oregon peace march on video.. citizens attacked and assaulted

by police "force". it was not just one or two police. it was all the police on the streets that planned to attack peaceful law abiding marchers (assault) by "claiming" they started it with throwing a bottle. the cops ALL knew no one threw bottles. it was simple in your face assault of law abiding citizens. it was not one cop, two cops....

this is assault. it is against the law

how do you excuse this?

not one cop said, no, i refuse to break the law

we can also talk about the video of the miami march and the police laughing and patting each other on the back about shooting a woman in the red suit with whatever kind of rubber bullet gun?

why should i be comfortable with our police force?

these actions show ultimate disrespect of their fellow man. seems to be more than just a few police on the force. this is an attitude toward all of us. animals, criminals, the enemy?

[seabeyond]

1. i will start. my 9 yr old watched video of the oregon peace march and

the video of the miami peace march where it showed police laughing at the woman in red suit that had been shot. they were horrified by the behavior of the police.

not a day or two later my son in boyscouts had a policeman come to speak at their meeting. the policeman said to the kids...

he doesnt know why, but some people are afraid of the police. there is no reason to be afraid of the police

what do you think my son was thinking.... as he looks on this man with authority, a bit of awe and admiration and respect yet..... knowing exactly why people are afraid of the police

[genie_weenie]

2. Your basic stance is

all cops are guilty until proven innocent? Ironic...

[seabeyond]

3. no that is not. i specifically talk about a factual event.

how dare you suggest something that isnt even kinda what i say and expect to be taken seriously without even addressing what i did write. surely you can do better

[genie_weenie]

4. Don't give me that indignant tone.

This is from your thread starter:

why should i be comfortable with our police force?

seems to be more than just a few police on the force.

this is an attitude towards all of us.

It is quite clear. However, to be constructive and not flame war-ish, I will respond with a more detailed post.

[seabeyond]

5. lol lol lol so i am not allowed to be indignant and you are

telling me what my behavior/response/comment is suppose to be?

not a chance bubba, ...... i will say whatever i chose to say without some authortarian attitude dictating to me how i am suppose to feel. what i have attempted is to respectfully ask a question, that no one has attempted answer, to clarify to me my present feeling on our police force.

[genie_weenie]

7. Okay. Fine.

I will not stoop to your level.

[seabeyond]

9. i am "stooping" to a level cause i dare challenge the police

is that kinda like question the war and you are against the troops and support terrorists? yet, to this point you still have not addressed the issue i posted originally.

[seabeyond]

11. do you think it helps our police force that there are average joes

like me, law abiding citizens, no longer able to support the police because of a decline i have watched in the police force? your solution is to ignore, pretent it isnt there and attack anyone that dares to address the issue?

my goal.... is to talk it out. find a way as a community to work together in respect and support to be able to give the police what they need. MY goal.... is to help the police to see the errors of their way and why more and more average law abiding joes does not have the respect and does not support them, so that we can heal as a whole. this is not good, or fair or right for the police. it is the worst of jobs and i feel for the police. it is about owning what is happening in honesty..... and healing and growing as a community

the same with our soldiers. to address in honesty, the issues in iraq and to truly support the troops is to get bush out, and another in that will look at the situation in honesty. repugs think we are traitors cause we dare to suggest bush is fuckin up. i personally see us as more patriot because we can honestly address the issue.

i have children i am raising, teaching, and this is not condusive for them.

[Vorta]

12. I think much of the divide in what we see as their mission and what they see as their mission.

I also think there is more division in the civilian view than in the police view. There is a certain degree of "damned if you do and damned if you don't" to the police job. I live in a small town neighboring a somewhat (nothing to compare with major urban ghetto) rough neighborhood. There is a lot of bad behavior that happens in that neighborhood and coming out of it. Our local PD patrols. They have been accused of harassing. We spend something like twice the per car allotment for gasoline that neighboring St Pete does. We like it that our PD patrols. The St Pete force, responds. They pretty much only come when called, which explains why SW St Pete is rough, the neighbors aren't as quick to report crime or disturbances in progress. The rough neighborhood is also home to an activist group which complains that the area is excessively policed. This is not simply an activist group, it's a political socialist race-based activist group with a grudge. Be that as it may, we have two communities with vastly different expectations of the police force.

[Vorta]

6. I'll grant you that there is inconsistency in the negative view of police

On another thread we have some folks basically saying that regardless of how much evidence there is that illegal immigrants are committing crimes and costing us money, it's contrary to a doctrinal view of immigration as a good and noble thing so forgettaboutit.

The problem with the police as I see it is in police culture. I am frequently exasperated with a police officer on another BBS because his defense for many police behaviors is that it is permitted or that it is policy. OK, so I get that the individual officer isn't supposed to determine policy anymore than the individual marine is supposed to determine policy. I'm not asking this man to get fired, I am asking him to recognize the problem and be part of the solution.

You don't have to look far to see police abuse. Watch COPS. Now if these folks will behave like this, when they know that they are being recorded for national television, it's hard to imagine that this is not their "best" behavior. We see pretext stops. We see excessive force. We see obnoxious and arrogant behavior. We hear an attitude unbecoming of a professional in public serve. We also hear a lot speech to suggest that this force is neither the best nor the brightest. These are not the men we enlist to go fight a foreign war in which we value the lives of our enemy less than we value our own, these are men we enlist to have special access to weapons and property, to have a certain level of immunity from prosecution, to KNOW and UNDERSTAND not only the Constitution, but case law which applies to their daily job.

Can you honestly say that most police officers can be said to have the same degree of understanding and respect for the Bill Of Rights as you or I do? I obviously can't say the following of all cops because I don't know all cops and don't have studies to back it up. It is MY IMPRESSION that SOME or MANY cops do the following:

• Believe that they are owed a certain level and kind of respect, and that failure to give them that is cause for harassment or arrest.
• Believe that the Bill Of RIghts is terrific, as long as it doesn't slow, interfere with, or prevent detainment, interrogation, search, or prosecution.
• Believe that they have a right to "control the situation" by what we would consider excessive force.

[seabeyond]

10. c.o.p.s. has left more of an impression on me. my husband watches

the show. i cannot. the one i remember the most was a wisp of a girl in the fields maybe 16, saying she was going to kill herself. they talked her out of the fields. they watched her all the way, walk to them. they did not have guns drawn. they did not feel threatened. when talking to her, facing her, they did not feel threatened. she held arms out to be arrested and this little thing, not even 110 pounds was thrown to the ground by the wrist and two cops on her back yanking her arms behind to cuff.

and this is what they thought was fine to put on tv. i walked away from my husband telling him that is sick. sick that anyone could see that as ok. but most... sick that the police felt no issue what so ever putting this on tv for the nation to see.

[951-Riverside]

8. YOU WILL RESPECT OUR MEN *cough* and women IN UNIFORM!!!!!

BECAUSE THEY FIGHT EVERY DAMN DAY FOR OUR FREEDOMS AND DONT YOU FORGET IT. WHEN YOU SEE A COP SLAPPING AROUND SOME MINORITY, YOU DAMN WIELL BETTER THANK HIM!!!!! IF YOU SEE HIM SLAPPING AROUND MY LILLY WHITE SON YOU BETTER GET THAT SON OF A BITCH'S BADGE NUMBER!!!!

AAAAAHH!!!!!!!!

WHITE PO.... ERRRR USA! USA! USA! USA!


:sarcasm:

[seabeyond]

13. no one can explain this to me. huh

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

14. No point arguing with someone who's already made up their mind. n/t

[seabeyond]

15. what have i made up my mind on?

[seabeyond]

16. one more time.

[uppityperson]

17. I started a topic on similar question. and a kick

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2760714&mesg_id=2760714

[seabeyond]

18. no one will reasonably address a valid question. i am serious

here. it is a dilemma i face that i dont want to feel about our cops and i certainly dont want my children to pick up on this.... but... when reality faces us in factual information, how do we ignore? why would we ignore? it is not good or helpful to anyone

[hfojvt]

19. it's too bad nobody on DU wants to defend the police

I don't want to either.

But just from a Devil's Advocate POV. In both of those cases, you are talking about demonstrations. I just had a co-worker who works as a prison guard tell me that they also provide 'security' at demonstrations. What he told me (what he had been told) is that these demonstrators are largely trouble-makers. That they hide molotov cocktails and other weapons at strategic places on their march route so they can quickly be armed in case a riot breaks out.

We do live in a society that riots, and not quietly. So demonstrations, even though they are constitutional, can be scary things. It is easy for the police to believe, especially when they have been told, that most of the demonstrators are their enemies.

And as for why not one cop refused. It is very hard to resist, not only the orders of superiors, but, presumambly, the rest of your co-workers who are going along. Like the scene in "Taps" where the CO said anybody who wanted to could leave. Nobody left. Then one officer stepped forward, and about a fifth of the group followed.

[seabeyond]

20. i beg to differ. i have heard a lot of people that support this behavior

say exactly what you are saying. or your friend told you. "What he told me (what he had been told) is that these demonstrators are largely trouble-makers."

there are a lot of people passing this around to give a legitimacy to police abuse, but there was the polices own camera on this peace march. they were the ones filming. and it clearly showed the police saying they were going to use the excuse of the bottle to get the marchers to back down the street. doesnt it all make things so much easier for a police if the rumor out there is that a large amjority of the marchers are trouble makers? but clearly they werent at this march

and clearly that woman they shot with rubber bullet was not. and clearly the boss was laughing, ridiculing the woman and telling his officers what a great job they did shooting her right in the head.

i understand devils advocate. you are the first to put out the possibilities that would support the police in these actions and they arent even your own person opinion. funny.

regardless. unfortunate it is that the police might be fearful, they still are not allowed their fear to abuse citizens. IF they are that afraid, then they cannot be police.