This has been asked before I know--But how are Liberals elitist?

[vixengrl]

I've been wondering about this thing--the "limosine lib", the "latte lib", the "brie and cheese" (say, what, Mr. Resident?) liberal. The "Country Club Democrat?" Why is there this sentiment that we are somehow the ones sipping chardonnay in wood-paneled rooms and making cynical decisions about the peons below us? Because, uh, I was raised in a working class neighborhood and I'm as common as paint, and I don't really feel elitist. I drive a Honda Civic, I don't ride in a limosine. I don't invest in $5 a throw coffee--I have a machine. I like chardonnay and brie and culture--but I also like strong public school systems and investment in communities. I like a sound infrastructure, a sound dollar, and low deficits, fiscal responsibility and reasonable taxes. I think the military should be supported--and that means: supplied, and backed up with the best support system we can give them--a strategy, and a realistic foreign policy, defined goals, and support when they get back home as well.

If the label of elitist comes because liberals feel our ideas are better--well, why shouldn't we? Don't conservatives have their ideas because they think...their ideas...are...?

Just curious.

(But especially about that "Country Club Democrat" thing--I can't find the quote, but I recall Bush even referenced that once. You know, Bush. Right.)

[RobofSWVA]

1. it's a bad generalization

Some people are condescending by nature. These people are from the "MY way is the ONLY way" group. Like all generalizations, I'm guessing it started with some guy knowing some guy who lived down the street that was a dem and was an ass about everything. I do not believe political ideology has any baring on elitism.

An argument can be made about “spoiled trust fund kids” and certain Hollywood activists that feel their poop doesn’t stink coming across as elitist as well. See: Team America, World Police for a great example of the perceived elitist stereotype.

[Stephanie]

11. know them by their spelling

case in point.

[omega minimo]

32. vere funy

:rofl:

[More Than A Feeling]

2. We aren't. elitism and aristocracy are conservative traits.

The more you have of it, the less liberal you will be. They are projecting.

[Quantess]

38. They ARE projecting.

They are masters of projecting! Look at every criticism they have flung at Dems and/or liberals. We what..? We do what...? Let's go over the list of neo-con knee-jerk insults directed our way:

Hate the troops
Dangerous to family values
Big spenders
Dishonest
Pedophiles
Anti-American
:spray:These are accusations flung OUR way!?!

Republicans / neo-cons are the champions of hypocrisy.

[Skittles]

3. they dare to have intelligence

they are not ditto sheep - they ask questions - this is very threatening to the dittomasters, who label them "elite"

[Warpy]

4. They're seen as those guys from the northeast

who went to fancy colleges and then got a job at 22 telling a working man how to do his job, the one he'd been doing for 40 years. Never mind that those brash young junior execs generally vote pubbie. When a lot of working folks saw Kerry, they saw the stereotype.

Or they're seen as those loudmouthed Hollywood types, the ones who got into showbiz through dumb luck when they were kids, got overpaid for ten years, and think they know fuck all about how the rest of us live and what we need. Never mind that dumb luck was combined with hard work and hours of practice, the average working man doesn't see that part.

That's why running a Gore or Edwards who have shaken off the shackles of the DLC is important. That's why Brian Schweitzer was able to win the governorship in one of the reddest red states out there, he ran as a true progressive who didn't talk down to anybody.

Plus, Clinton was right about one thing: it IS the economy.

[Stephanie]

17. Absolutely right. Schweitzer is the real thing.

Gore is a free man. So is Edwards. They've both seen the light. What I see in both of them is men who have thrown caution to the wind because what's at stake is the lives of their children and grandchildren.

[heidler1]

18. Gore suffered from the egghead = liberal = tree hugger = Dem too over his book on

recommending $3.50 a gal. for gas, all that spells political trouble. Actually not meaning to be an elitist Gore's $3.50 gas has that affect by limiting the poor from driving as much. Being anti-walmart smells a bit that way too especially if you beat on their cloths being low class when many people can't afford anything better.

[Stephanie]

23. that's a good point. I can see how opposing Walmart could be misinterpreted.

We oppose Walmart because it's bad for workers and bad for towns. But I can see how that attitude could be perceived as insulting to working families. good point. how would you correct that impression?

[heidler1]

45. Stick with the real issue of low pay for workers and no health care

insurance.

[Warren DeMontague]

39. Yeah, whatever. He still managed to win the election.

This idea that Americans want their presidents Dumb and anti-environment is bullshit, brought to you by the people who thought "saving" Terri Schiavo was a winner because of these all-powerful "Values Voters".

Here's a Clue: Al Gore's problems, what they were, in 2000 came from an overly-cautious campaign (that failed to appeal to the Nader demographic, among other things) distancing himself from Clinton b/c the common wisdom crowd said these all-powerful "heartland values voters", again, were voting based on the blowjob, and a poor choice in running mate. He's learned his lesson and he's fired up, and he's on the RIGHT side of every issue from Iraq to the Environment, which is going to be THE number one security issue facing this country in the coming century.

Al Gore won in 2000, but I predict (if he runs, and I hope he does) he'll get a landslide in 2008.

[heidler1]

47. The point is what the voters thought. I voted for Gore and saw merit in his view

on high gas tax idea. Even today it would be quite extreme. Many that I talked to back in 2000 saw no merit in this idea. Today with the threat of global warming being pushed the outcome would probably be different. If you are interested there is some historical view points on this issue at: http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2006/06/al_gores_carbon.html

[eridani]

5. They mean that thought and reason are only for upper classes

If anybody without money does it, they are "elitist".

[papau]

6. condescending and/or telling others the right way to do things = elitist to GOP &

the media has allowed the GOP to repeat and sell that phrase, with the media actually selling the phrase, as a characteristic of the Democratic Party ideas and spokespeople, but not of the GOP ideas and spokespeople.

One would think that advice was "telling others what to do" - if you will - when either party offers it up.

But our mediawhores sell the phrase as attached only to Dems - guess that is one of the many reasons they are called mediawhores.

[JohnLocke]

7. Jeez, they're the ones that hunt quails...

[krispos42]

15. Caged quails!

Cheney doesn't have the stamina to actually walk a stubble field toting a shotgun and two dozen rounds of ammo. There's no battery strong enough to shock him back to life from doing that. They basically have to throw the birds out of cages in front of him. And it wouldn't surpise me to find out the birds had lead weights strapped to their ankles to slow them down. Or a tether or something. Little tiny bungee cord, perhaps, so they fly kinda like this:

[Stephanie]

8. we place too much value on INTELLIGENCE and SMART IDEAS

and FACTS and COMMON SENSE and BEAUTY and TRUTH and JUSTICE and HUMANITARIANISM.

that makes everyone who doesn't feel BAD about themselves.

so they need a name to call us.

[Efilroft Sul]

44. In short, we have elite views toward knowledge and education.

Conservatives, on the other hand, are elitists, too, except they are economic elitists. They value everything in the name of the once-almighty dollar, and they worship those who are rich beyond comprehension as paragons of American capitalism and the mythical American Dream.

[drm604]

9. It's an intentional and inaccurate smear.

It's the wealthy conservatives who are elitist if anyone, and the liberals who are populist, but a group of conservatives have been hard at work for decades trying to reverse that in the public's minds, and unfortunately they've been very successful with a large proportion of the public. Our job is to help the public see through this nonsense.

[Telly Savalas]

10. As an avid conservative, I'm fucking sick of Country Club Democrats.

Conservatives work hard, so it's not really fair that a snot-nosed trust fund liberal gets a free ride on their taxes.

We need to tax the limosine liberals properly:

*Tax capital gains at the same rate as income from work: Lazy Democrat elitists riding on their portfolio should have to pay just as much as hardworking Republicans.

*Keep a robust inheritance tax for large estates: It's not fair that a latte liberal doesn't have to pay taxes on daddy's money, whereas conservatives who actually work for a living do pay taxes.

*Raise the marginal tax rate for the richest Americans: After eight years of Clinton, it's hard for a working person to make ends meet, so the tax burden should be placed on the brie and cheese commies. Money used to buy a second yacht should be taxed at a much higher rate than money used to put food on the table.

I'm a bit confused, however, as to why the GOP has been running the show for six years, but haven't implemented such policies.

[vixengrl]

14. Hear, Hear! You're on to something, you are!

Obviously red-blooded and true-blue Americans are wage earners--I'll go so far as to say wage-earners should receive a living wage. But these trustifarians who are subversive pinkos--why should they make out like bandits just by being born to privilege--such an entitlement mentality!

From here on in, the inheritance tax is the Trustifarian Discomfiture Fee.

I think the GOP Congress would've gotten to it, but they are too fatigued from working three and sometimes four days a week.

[Stephanie]

20. lol!

they must be exhausted!

[krispos42]

16. Excellent! eom

[drm604]

42. Telly, you sir are a genius.

Verbal Ju Jitsu. Leverage their arguments against them. These damned latte liberals in their ivory towers with their college deferments and their cushy government jobs, sending the working class off to fight their wars for them! :rofl:

You should really start a thread on this.

[question everything]

12. I actually met self described liberals who I found to be elitists

In the old days, when conservatives believed in "live and let live," elitists were the ones who thought that they knew what was good for you.

Thus liberals who support government program to better the lives of, especially lower income families, or the poor, the sick and the unemployed sometimes can come as elitists. They know what is good for you.

Personally, I find the demand to prohibit smoking every place (and I am not a smoker) to prohibit trans fats in restaurants, or the serving of liver pate, or other rules and regulations coming from someone who thinks they know better how I should live my life - to be elitist.

We mean well with all the "head start" and assistance with food stamps and title 8 (I think) for housing and all the other programs. But the way we set the requirements, and the way we make our decrees can, I think, rub someone the wrong way.

I am not a social worker, so am not aware of any recipient of a government program telling an administrator to go to hell, or something.

In the past decade, or so, we have the conservatives telling us how we should live our lives - by invoking their god as the rationale. So now we are even.

[Warpy]

19. Phil Ochs said it best

http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~trent/ochs/lyrics/liberal.html

Last verse: Once I was young and impulsive
I wore every conceivable pin
Even went to the socialist meetings
Learned all the old union hymns
But I've grown older and wiser
And that's why I'm turning you in
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
--------------------

He certainly foresaw those Reagan Democrats, didn't he?

[Stephanie]

22. the banning of TRANS FATS is being done by a REPUBLICAN

you prove the point of the OP precisely

[ShaneGR]

13. Buy American please...

Honda's are nice cars. But support American Manufacturing jobs as much as you can. Plenty of American cars out there.

[Odin2005]

26. Many of those "Asian" cars come from an American factory.

This ain't the 80's any more. There are Toyotas and Hondas made in the US and Fords made in Mexico. To call a multinational corporation an "American" or "Japanese" company anymore is to not understand how the Corporatists have taken advantage of Globalization. The only reason Ford and GM are still hanging on while making shitty cars is because people still ignorantly think that whether a Multinational corporation is American or Japanese matters anymore.

[pnwmom]

30. But what about when the car with the foreign name plate

is manufactured here in the U.S.?

Isn't the definition of "American cars" getting murkier?

I bought my first foreign car, a used Volvo, when the American manufacturers were still claiming that they couldn't sell cars based on safety features. Now Volvo is owned by Ford. So is it a foreign car still, or is it American now?

I'm confused.

:shrug:

[Dastard Stepchild]

21. I thought this was in reference to the liberal...

with combination of discretionary income and a social conscience. It's not meant to define all liberals, mainly those that earn an upper middle class living. It is a particularly uncreative way pointing out a perceived and untrue discrepancy between an individual that both lives well AND buys into a Rawlsian social contract, suggesting that you are somehow a false humanitarian if you live in a $300,000 house.

I've never found it a particularly convincing argument, but perhaps this is because I have met and befriended exceptions to the notion that one cannot be both well-off and socially conscious.

Come to think of it, if someone were to meet me, based solely on superficial characteristics, one might refer to me as a "starbucks liberal." In part because of my zip code, in part because I do buy overpriced coffee, and in part because of where I got my graduate degree. It would be ignoring many other facets of my personality and life experiences, but I could see someone attempting to sloppily slap this label onto me.

edited for spelling.

[No Exit]

24. I think the crux of the wingnut rantings against "limousine liberals" is

something like this: Liberals want to help the poor. Liberals want to help the most hopeless people. That group would include the illiterate, the uneducated, those trapped in cycles of crime and violence, those trapped in addiction, the seriously disabled, etc., etc.--and, especially, the poor.

Wingnuts look at liberals who speak out for these forgotten ones, and then they think to themselves, "Hey, that guy (or "that broad") doesn't look uneducated to me. He/she is dressed pretty well. He/she has a college degree (or multiple degrees). He/she isn't POOR!"

So then the wingnuts start with, "Well, it's easy for YOU to talk! YOU aren't sleeping in a cardboard box--yet you are awakening guilt in us because you remind us that some people must sleep in a cardboard box. YOU aren't without money for food!"

Wingnuts can't comprehend that maybe a liberal has had some financial success in the world, and now wants to extend a hand to others to help THEM maybe have some success, too. Wingnuts think that you couldn't possibly care about someone's plight unless it somehow directly affects YOU, or, even worse, somehow directly affects YOUR money.

IOW, the trait of altruism is poorly developed in wingnuts--if it is present at all. If they ever want to extend a hand to someone else, it is because they perceive that someone else as somehow being very similar to themselves. Liberals, OTOH, don't care if the person they are helping is totally different from themselves. Wingnuts can't conceive of wanting to help "THEM". "THEM" is someone different from the wingnuts themselves: "those blacks" or "those Mexicans" or "those ragheads", etc.

Wingnuts assume that because THEY would never help "THEM", then the liberals also don't REALLY want to help "THEM". Wingnuts project their own selfishness onto liberals, and so when a liberal acts unselfish, wingnuts think he/she is just pretending--and promptly accuse the liberal of hypocrisy.

[yurbud]

25. it's not an accident or earned--it's marketing. GOP needed a way to separate us from regular people

[EFerrari]

27. That's right. Marketing magic because we ARE regular people.

Projection. Projection. Projection.

The Republicans are the ones who push the idea that all men aren't created equal. That's their whole platform,lol.

[Odin2005]

28. The "Liberal Elitists" BS is an exaggerated sterotype of upper-middle class, highly educated...

...left-wingers that obsess over social issues and identity politics. The exaggeration first appeared in the 1968 election when Nixon's running mate Spiro Agnew started spewing it in order to associate the Democratic Party with "ivory tower intellectuals" and so attract socially conservative Dems who were put off by the socially liberal radicalism of the 60's social movements.

[HughMoran]

29. You are right on - the "elitist" thing is just a bigoted way of saying "intellectual"

which is just another way of saying "I'm jealous of you - you, you elitist you". It's childish.

[omega minimo]

31. They're not. It's a Doublethink slogan for Dittoheads

:thumbsdown:

[pnwmom]

33. They're just trying to distract people from noticing that so many

Rethugs are just so . . . shoot-themselves-in-the-foot-and-their-friends-in-the-face-out-and-out- DUMB.

[Bitwit1234]

34. Trying to pretend republicans are with the middle class

they are trying to hook on to the "common" man. Look at how they are linking bush to NASCAR, cowboy boots, cutting brush..trying to make them look like everyday guys and gals.

[2Design]

35. we are educated and have brains - just look at the blue areas

they are all educated and have degrees and money too - the republican states are very poor and look like 'crap' when you drive through them too - so the uneducated don't like educated people - look at the commander in chief - they like them dumb like themselves

[Printer70]

36. Kerry won a majority of the richest counties in America

The Richest

2004 Vote
1. Fairfax County, Va. - Blue
2. Montgomery County, Md. - Blue
3. Morris County, N.J. - Red
4. Howard County, Md.- Blue
5. Monmouth County, N.J.-Red
6. Somerset County, N.J.- Red
7. Westchester County, N.Y. - Blue
8. Chester County, Pa. - Red
9. San Mateo County, Calif. - Blue
10. Nassau County, N.Y. - Blue
--

Social issues have thrown the standard equation out of whack. I know it sounds bizarre and counter-intuitive. Apparently, the poorest county in the US went 80% for Bush. So you have a situation where Republicans look at Democrats as representing the "upper crust". Others can probably explain this better than I can.

[hfojvt]

37. sadly, I find a certain amount of truth in it

How are liberals elitist?

For one, by having above average education. I plead guilty to that, but it is elitist because in our society only some people can afford to have a college education. And, of course, my education is inferior anyway because I went to a state universities in the midwest.
Secondly, by being higher paid professionals (some of that follows from the college degrees) - teachers, professors, lawyers, etc. Not that all liberals are like that, but some are. Even union workers are an elite group as far as income goes. They make far more money than non-union workers.
Thirdly, and this is the key, they feel superior to lots of other people - people who live in red states, people who shop at Wal-mart and buy Kinkade paintings and processed food, sheeple, ignorant idiots, bigots, and homophobes. Not that the last four are good things to be, but rather how quickly some people are willing to so label others.

But just because there are elitist liberals does not mean that every liberal is elitist.

[loyalsister]

40. They exist in my family......

My definition would be people who truly are liberal out of sympathy, but want to take care of some people via charity if not government. They are not concerned with things like empowerment because they don't listen to the perspectives of minorities or women who have taken the position off trying to stake out that course.

Their liberal atitudes are typically about self interest. I know a couple of trial attorneys who have good intentions, but at the end of the day their particular concerns for people are limited to how it benefits their own lives.

They have little or no interest in minority or poverty issues nor any others that don't hit them. Kids are comfortably schooled. All is well in their world.

They want Democrats elected and they are more willing to take the "electable" strategy than to look for someone who will be bold and try to solve the larger healthcare crisis improve the economy, etc.

These particular individuals sincerely care about the environment so they aren't monsters. They are simply practical and most of America is not on their radar.
It is a label and a stereotype that applies to this situation, anyway.
They actually spend weekends riding around in a limo- drinking substantially.

[personman]

41. Liberals support authoritarian government and capitalism.

A ruling class and an owning class.

[librechik]

43. They aren't. In the same breath Pukkkes complain about our love of minorities

That Elitist Liberal myth is a lie spread by Newtie and his Word Demons. He managed to take even the mild word liberal and turn it into a curse.

[RedStateShame]

46. Elitist - won't suffer fools lightly

Maybe we won't welcome any mouth-breathing knuckledragger with a limited sense of morals or understanding of perspective, but I don't mind if the tent I'm in doesn't hold the racists, misognynists, homophobes, and xenophobes that the GOP will reach out to.