I still love John Kerry, so proud of him

[sasha031]

Last week, your Senator, John Kerry, took a principled stand to keep Big Oil from industrializing the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.In the final day of the Congressional year, Senator Kerry helped thwart Senator Ted Stevens' (R-AK) brazen attempt to force a false choice between our troops and protecting arctic wildlife. This act of desperation by Stevens and his pro-drilling cohorts was the most underhanded move yet by Big Oil.

But Senator Kerry and others listened to their pro-wildlife constituents, and took a bold stand by demanding the drilling provision be removed from the military spending bill. As Defenders’ own Lydia Weiss told the Washington Post, “This is the greatest environmental victory of the year


http://action.defenders.org/site/MessageViewer?em_id=5241.5&dlv_id=12601&JServSessionIdr005=uqkp6obw52.app25a

[Vektor]

1. Agree totally. Did you see his recent letter to the NYT?

Lobbying for small businesses destroyed by Katrina - something the Bush admin. is hardly interested in doing.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5695584

[FreedomAngel82]

2. I think he's great too!

I'm proud of all who helped defeat that disgusting bill. There have been some amazing democrats lately like Kerry and Feingold and Reid leading the way. Yay! I'm so thankful for John Kerry for stopping that disgusting bill and all others who stud up with him. I will always be proud he got my first ever vote. :D

[sasha031]

9. no I haven't Vektor

thank you, I'll read it now, that's a beautiful pick of him.

[Vektor]

11. Thanks!

Such a great image, I love it too.

[blm]

3. Actually, Kerry has been fighting Stevens on this for about 8 years now.

It just rarely got mentioned in the corporate media.

[Vektor]

4. And Stevens has been whining and throwing tantrums the whole time.

Poor Kerry, it must be like trying to reason with a five year old.

[FreedomAngel82]

13. Oh I'm sure

Isn't it sad? And here he's supposed to be one of the oldest in the Senate and whines like a baby. Good grief. Imagine if this was a democrat acting that way. These guys are so rude and immature.

[ProSense]

5. It was a great victory! And that is a wonderful message. n/t

[globalvillage]

6. Great job by Kerry, Cantwell and Lieberman

Ted is such a whining baby. So glad they took him down!

[JuniperLea]

7. He's ok

I like him. I'm annoyed that he gave up and conceded the election so soon, but I don't have his perspective so I can't be too hard on him. He's not charismatic or a great orator, but he's damn smart and we need more like him.

[FreedomAngel82]

14. There is still a

court order in August 2006. They haven't given up last I've heard.

[Vektor]

17. Thanks for that.

I can appreciate your comment, since you said "I don't have his perspective so I can't be too hard on him." I get fed up when I hear the attacks, from those who will not at least admit they DON'T know his perspective. I think we were all devastated when Bush-Pig glided back into the White House. You have very right to be upset, too.

There is a great interview from Air America radio where Kerry recently addressed the Ohio debacle, and the fact that they need that "smoking gun" before they can claim any fraud beyond a shadow of a doubt. Which makes sense, legally.

There is also a Conyers interview.

Here's a link if you want to check it out:
You can stream Politically Direct live at 2:00 PM Eastern, 11:00 AM Pacific at http://www.airamericaradio.com or it will be archived starting Monday (after the meal has worn off) at http://www.airamericaplace.com . Click on "Audio Archive" and scroll down to "Politically Direct."


As for the charisma - it's a quiet kind. Not in your face, but there. Translates WAAAY better in person.

[JuniperLea]

113. Egghead charisma:)

I agree. For those who appreciate intelligence, there is a quiet charisma. It seems that a lot of people, Repubs and Dems alike, put too much stock in personality. I find that attitude very childish. I'll tell you one thing, I would feel much safer if this country of ours was in the hands of someone as smart as Kerry.

It's not always easy (most worthwhile things are not easy) but I try to keep an open mind about everything in life. Perspective is absolutely everything and no two people on Earth have exactly the same view. When Kerry conceded, I was initially bitter and angry with him. But after a few days of dark depression over the whole election, I tried to put myself in his shoes. What he did is a kinder, gentler way of managing the situation and I appreciate that now. Had he began fighting back, the Repubs would have torn him apart and that would have done no good at all.

[Blue Shark]

8. Such a Shame he didn't claim the Presidency he won. N/T

[Vektor]

10. It is a shame he's not President. If you have a smoking gun that proves

the election was stolen beyond a shadow of a doubt (not that I don't believe it, it's the MSM that needs convincing) send it to his office. That's the hard part. Undeniable proof. The tampering and fraud was so widespread, in so many little places, done in so many sneaky ways...

I'm sure we'd all like to see Bushit thrown out on his ass. And yes, it is frustrating.

Check out this interview if you get the chance. Kerry talks about the Ohio thing...
You can stream Politically Direct live at 2:00 PM Eastern, 11:00 AM Pacific at http://www.airamericaradio.com or it will be archived starting Monday (after the meal has worn off) at http://www.airamericaplace.com . Click on "Audio Archive" and scroll down to "Politically Direct."

[sasha031]

12. he would of been one our best

I still hurt over that election,

[rox63]

15. I dearly wish he was in the WH instead of *

But at least he is still fighting the good fight for us in the Senate. And if you've heard any of his recent interviews, he has been getting involved in election reform efforts.

[FreedomAngel82]

16. Yep

He's been involved since he was back in the Senate. He joined with Barbara Boxer and Hillary Clinton in their election reform.

[Jayhawk Lib]

18. I love Kerry also

If he had been elected or should I say screwed out of the presidency things would be a whole lot different now. He is such a smart man and a war hero to boot. He has the metals to prove that he served admirably.

What does our current president have??? Nothing but a bunch of forged documents.

I sure hope Kerry runs in 2008. He should be a shoo in provided the vote stealers screw him again.

[MH1]

35. Welcome to DU, Jayhawk Lib!

:hi:

I agree totally on Kerry. And as far as the vote stealers, I think Kerry and LOTS of others more visible than Kerry, are trying to find ways to put them out of business before 2008. (Keep in mind that republicans do not have a monopoly on election fraud, at least not if you go back in history. This adds a bit of complexity to the issue that tends to be overlooked, I think)

[bigwillq]

96. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[globalvillage]

19. David Bender said Sunday on Politically Direct

"On environmental issues, there's been no greater champion in the US Senate, in my judgement, than John Kerry."

That interview rocked.
http://www.airamericaplace.com/archive.php?mode=display&id=3112

[mtnsnake]

20. Not just Kerry! That's a form letter to ALL the Senators involved. Look...

Let's give credit to John Kerry for his PART in this, but let's not single him out and forget about the rest of the people involved, some of whom played bigger parts in this than he did. According to the same website, the main article on this gives most of the credit to Harry Reid, Maria Cantwell, & two repukes....

"Senate Democrats, led by Harry Reid (NV) and Maria Cantwell (WA), and two very brave Senate Republicans, Lincoln Chafee (RI) and Mike DeWine (OH), are to be commended for their principled stand," added Schlickeisen. "When challenged by pro-drilling Senators to abandon their support for the Senate's own rules, and to sacrifice the Arctic Refuge, these principled leaders did not blink. Every American owes them a debt of gratitude."
http://www.savearcticrefuge.org/sections/pr122105.html
The above link is derived from The Defenders of Wildlife at http://www.defenders.org/

[Vektor]

22. All involved deserve credit.

Even Joementum, on this one. Kerry, Cantwell, Lieberman, et al. all made very powerful statements on C-SPAN. All were terrific. I think the OP singled out Kerry because she is a MA resident and the letter she quoted was about Kerry, and addressed to MA residents.

http://www.c-span.org/

[blm]

25. And also because Kerry was the lead on this issue for many years,

not just this one showdown. This last one was just the latest battle on this issue.

Kerry fronted this from the get go.

[MH1]

39. LCV gives him one of highest rankings ever, & specifically mentions ANWR

http://www.lcv.org/newsroom/in-the-news/kerry-lieberman-get-highest-marks-from-environmental-group.html

From material put out for the presidential primary (I couldn't find the accurate date):

The League of Conservation Voters is calling Sens. John Kerry and Joe Lieberman the top environmentalists among the Democratic presidential candidates.

The group based its conclusions on candidate surveys, voting records, speeches and interviews with environmental experts in the candidates' home states. Though Kerry and Lieberman topped the list as "consistent champions" of the environment, any of the nine Democrats would be preferable to President Bush, league president Deb Callahan said Monday.

"Compared to President Bush, this Democratic field is a field of friends to the environment and to public health," she said. "They range from good to spectacular on these issues."

One criteria was how candidates who have served in Congress voted on issues important to the conservation group. Kerry's lifetime score, 96, was the highest, followed by Lieberman at 93.

The group's report calls the Massachusetts senator "one of America's premier environmental leaders," and praises him for promoting higher auto fuel efficiency standards and fighting attempts to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

"I believe that we deserve a president who knows that protecting the environment can protect jobs," Kerry said in a phone interview from California, where he outlined his proposals to create high-tech jobs. "We can have a strong economy even as we have a strong legacy for our children."

(snip)

Yep, Kerry's been fighting for ANWR for a long time.

I was looking for the link to where he was awarded LCV's "Environmental Champion" award...anyone have it?

[mtnsnake]

92. Check this out. They gave JK a "lifetime 92%" & Bush an "F". Here's a link

"The LCV endorsed John Kerry for president because he has been a consistent environmental champion throughout his 19-year career in the U.S. Senate.

President Bush has the worst environmental record of any president in the LCV’s 34-year history. Kerry has a lifetime 92 percent LCV score and Bush an unprecedented “F” for his midterm record."

more at http://www.hillnews.com/letters/031704.aspx

[Vektor]

94. Great article. Thanks for that link.

Bush's record as usual, is deplorable.

[globalvillage]

99. John and Teresa

John and Teresa have both been active in environmental issues for years. It's how they met.

Their mutual interest in environmental issues brought Teresa and John together. She was first introduced to John Kerry by Senator Heinz at an Earth Day rally in 1990. In 1992, she met John Kerry again at the Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro...

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/teresa_heinz_kerry/

I think that's just so sweet.

Thanks for posting the link.

[mtnsnake]

26. Yup. All the Senators involved got letters like the one here, not just JK

Even a few repukes deserve the same amount of credit on this one as Kerry, and they were named in the main article. Funny how Kerry gets singled out as if he was totally responsible.

[Vektor]

30. As I said.

The OP is a MA resident. So, she referred to her own Senator. She did not word the letter, she just posted it. It was sent to her about Kerry. See it says "YOUR SENATOR." She "singled out" Kerry because she was referencing the Senator who serves her state.

Don't go out of your way to cause a rift where there is none.

[mtnsnake]

37. No...this thread gives the idea that Kerry is the main player & he's not

I'm not going out of my way to "cause a rift where there is none". Like I said, and like you also realize, this is a form letter sent to all the Senators who voted to keep the Arctic pure, not just Kerry. If you don't like the fact that I pointed out the links in my previous post that show that many OTHER people deserve the same credit as John Kerry for this act, well that's just too bad for ya. Maybe you don't want all the people who deserve credit to get it, but I do. Hope you understand.

[Vektor]

42. Oh, enough.

I'm not going to repeat myself again. It should have been clear the first time.

YES. EVERYONE DESERVES CREDIT. FOR THE THIRD TIME.

YES, THE OP POSTED ABOUT KERRY SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE SHE IS A MA. RESIDENT AND KERRY IS THE ONLY MA. SENATOR LISTED IN THE LETTER.

NO, NOBODY BELIEVES THAT A MA. RESIDENT MENTIONING HER OWN SENATOR IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM NEGATES OTHER STATES' SENATORS' EFFORTS.

I am having a hard time believing this is not clear and you aren't just stirring the pot. To imply "I don't want anyone else to get credit" is a joke, and a lame and offensive one at that. Reread where I said three times, ALL DESERVE CREDIT.

The only one here who seems to think the OP's post takes credit away from the others is you. Everyone else seems to agree that we are proud of all the individuals involved. Stop fixating on an implied slight when none occurred.

[mtnsnake]

59. Relax

I wasn't trying to take anything away from Kerry. For the umpteenth time, I was just pointing out that many other senators worked as hard on this act, too, some even harder. You shouldn't be so upset about that, but go ahead if it makes your day.

Good gawd, man, you really do need to calm down, maybe take a few deep breaths. Sorry I got you in such a tizzy.

[Vektor]

61. See #56.

I was calm. :-)

[ProSense]

57. He is the main player. n/t

[mtnsnake]

72. He's A player, a good one, too. Reid & Cantwell were the MAIN players

though, on getting this rotten bill shot down.
http://www.savearcticrefuge.org/sections/pr122105.html

Like I said, I'm not taking anything away from Kerry. His track record on the environment is one of the best. I wish he would have flaunted his fine record on the environment more than he did during the campaign.

[Vektor]

77. Definitely listen to this interview...he mentions that.

He tried, sadly, I don't think he got the coverage on this issue (or any for that matter) during the campaign that he deserved from the rotten corporate media.

David Bender specifically voices the concern you just mentioned. Pretty much word for word.

http://www.airamericaplace.com . Click on "Audio Archive" and scroll down to "Politically Direct."

[mtnsnake]

89. Thanks, will do

I'll check it out a little later. Yeah, I was waiting so long during that campaign to hear JK use his track record on the environment as a means of one-upping Bush's atrocious record on same, but it just never happened. Like you mentioned, the media didn't emphasize it either, though. Just the same, I thought that Kerry's handlers and managers steered him in the wrong direction for too long. They had him honing in on pretty much nothing but the war theme, and should've spent at least some time highlighting the things that Kerry could've slaughtered him on....like the environment.

btw, after you told me to chekc out post #56, I tried to edit the other post to correct the mistake I made on the spelling of your name but it was too late to edit when I tried to do so.

[Vektor]

93. No prob - I thought "Hektor"

was funny. I thought you were cleverly trying to call me out without using my real screen name.

Like: "Someone named 'HEKTOR' is being an uncivil a-hole." Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink.

I totally laughed out loud. That will be my new ingognito name. B-)

Re: "I thought that Kerry's handlers and managers steered him in the wrong direction for too long."

Agreed. In retrospect, I think he thinks so too. Granted, he has some great loyal staff working for him now, and did back then as well, but I suspect there are others that, well, you won't be seeing any more of.

[mtnsnake]

102. Thanks, ya got me laughing there,

Hector. (just kidding, Vektor!) :evilgrin:

LOL it was a definite brain cramp on my part, but thanks for taking it in good humor. Your a good sport and your post did get me laughing. Sorry for any previous difficulties.

:toast:

edit for grammar

[Vektor]

104. No problem, whatsoever.

Admittedly, some of my, er "strongly worded" posts do come across as being...firm.

Not uncivil! Firm! :-)

:toast:

[ProSense]

84. See post 40. He was on message about the environment.

At the height of the campaign it became a big issue, and only weeks before the convention. Kerry also addressed it in his speech.

[blm]

114. You're just flat out wrong - ANWR's been an issue for many years. Reid and

Cantwell came forward on THIS particular battle, but it has been Kerry who took the lead years ago and stuck with it every time the GOPs tried pushing it through.

This was just the latest in a series of battles.

[LittleClarkie]

36. This Mass. person got this letter and so felt like posting this thread

if you feel others deserve credit also, the post button is at the top there.

She singled him out because he's HER senator, and HIS name was on her letter. Hence...

[mtnsnake]

50. No problem. Just wanted the others to get credit too. Thanks for

being civil about it, though, unlike Hektor.

[Vektor]

56. We do give them all credit.

I watched the C-SPAN press conference immediately after this vote, and told anyone and everyone who would listen that I was so proud of each and every Dem involved. Equally.

Also, you replied to "Hektor."

And methinks you have no idea what "uncivil" is.

I have yet to lapse into uncivil. If I ever need to, there will be no question. Luckily that is only reserved for Freepers in response to an attack.

What you got was "firm." Usually occurs as a result of having to repeat myself multiple times. When someone says "I give all equal credit" yet receives repeated argumentative posts to the contrary, I'm sure you can understand how it might be frustrating. Especially since I was not even the OP who posted the letter to begin with.

Edited to add, peace, of course.

[seabeyond]

78. Edited to add, peace, of course. bah hahahahahaha

of course

you..... are just..... cute

[Vektor]

79. In a feisty sort of way...

:hi:

[seabeyond]

95. absolutely

B-)

[ProSense]

40. Kerry is the leader on the issue and has always been singled out as such.

Key Democrats split with Kerry on Arctic oil
Three candidates are vital in helping their party regain Senate

By Tom Curry
National affairs writer
MSNBC
Updated: 6:35 p.m. ET July 9, 2004
WASHINGTON - While the man at the top of the Democratic ticket, Sen. John Kerry, has led the opposition to oil drilling on the coastal plain of Alaska’s Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, Democrats' hopes of regaining control of the Senate hinge on pro-drilling candidates in three key states: Alaska, Oklahoma and Louisiana.

In Washington on Thursday, the three Democratic candidates in those states — Rep. Brad Carson of Oklahoma, Rep. Chris John of Louisiana, and former Alaska Gov. Tony Knowles — joined forces to, in effect, declare their ANWR independence from Kerry.

If this trio wins their races this fall, they'll do it partly by running against Kerry on ANWR.

Not only did Kerry lead a 2002 filibuster that scuttled any chance of approval of ANWR drilling, but he reveled in his role as anti-ANWR crusader.

"How sweet it is," Kerry told reporters after the April 2002 vote to sustain the filibuster against drilling.

In an energy policy speech in January 2002, Kerry said, “Big oil and its allies have lusted over the (Alaska) refuge for two decades. With each attempt, they made up new arguments for despoiling a unique and irreplaceable Arctic environment.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5395869



The Gloves Are Off
An ANWR defeat would deal a major blow to the entire concept of wilderness protection. In this exclusive essay, Senator JOHN KERRY vows to take the fight to the GOP leadership.

By John Kerry


Ask yourself: What if a Republican named Theodore Roosevelt hadn't helped write conservation into our national character? What if our march to progress and modernity had meant the step-by-step stripping, mining, and development of every inch of territory from coast to coast?

That's a big question. We're still wrestling with it as a nation, and ground zero is Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

The ANWR Debate
Read all of Outside's coverage of the ANWR debate here.
Like many incomparable treasures of the West, ANWR sounds desolate, uninhabited. But it's not. It's the last 5 percent of Alaska's North Slope that's closed to drilling, and nothing like it exists anywhere else in the world. Peregrine falcons thrive there, and thousands of Porcupine caribou roam the refuge, along with gray wolves and black, brown, and polar bears. Yet some in Washington are ready to sell it to the highest bidder.

http://outside.away.com/outside/features/john-kerry.html

[MH1]

44. Thanks for these! Great reminders. n/t

[globalvillage]

82. More

A High-energy argument
Bush and Kerry both want less dependence on foreign oil--but how?
By Samantha Levine

Perhaps no issue symbolizes the rift between Bush and Kerry on energy policy more than their clash over drilling for oil in a pristine sliver of Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR).
<snip>
As often as Bush invokes ANWR drilling as a solution, Kerry reviles it as a sin. That remote coastal plain is home to dozens of species, he says, from caribou to polar bears, and is a critical resting spot for migratory birds. Drilling there, Kerry says, wouldn't help us anytime soon because it would take at least seven years to ramp up production. And a March report from the federal Energy Information Administration says the amount of crude available would not have a significant effect on U.S. oil prices or the amount of oil we import. In April 2002, Kerry talked about ANWR for nearly an hour on the Senate floor to help kill debate on the issue. "We cannot drill our way out of America's energy challenge," he roared. "This is a false promise to America."
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/041101/1energy.htm

edit: more

Kerry Pledges to Fight Bush on Alaska Oil
By Marc Sandalow
The San Francisco Chronicle

Friday 11 March 2005

Senator urges battle for environment against energy plan.
Washington - Sen. John Kerry pledged Thursday to lead the fight against President Bush's proposal to drill for oil in the Alaska wilderness, sounding a call to arms for environmentalists to combat the administration's energy policies.

"The only mandate this administration has is for unity, to find common ground," Kerry said in an interview with The Chronicle. "The American people did not vote to drill in ANWR."

Kerry characterized the president's plan for the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge as a "phony, absolutely fraudulent offering," which vastly overstates the potential to reduce gas prices or the nation's reliance on foreign oil. He called it the "ideological linchpin" to a broader, more reckless environmental policy.

"They need to be called out on it, and I intend to do it," Kerry said.

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/37/9559

[FlemingsGhost]

21. I guess it's never too late to "take a principled stand."

Too bad the sentiment wasn't there during the Iraqi War Resolution.

[Vektor]

23. You can set your watch by it...

:hi:

Off topic, but thanks anyway.

It's never too late to RECOGNIZE a principled stand when it has been there all along, either.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vektor]

31. Hardly.

I CAN recognize a bitter disruptor, though...who can run along at any time.
:hi:

[LittleClarkie]

43. How... ad hominem of you.

how about a little "credit where credit's due" and all that.

[ProSense]

46. Kerry posts always attracts the self-pleasure seeking types who hate him!

n/t

[FlemingsGhost]

48. Has anyone in this thread claimed to hate John Kerry? (n/t)

Flem.

[ProSense]

52. Referring to the acknowledgment of JK's significant leadership

on an issue as as "fawning wankfest" is not endearing.

[Vektor]

49. The same sort

who try to piss off their moms all the time because "bad attention" is better than none at all.

The ones who get defensive about such posts and call those with a realistic (positive) view of Kerry nasty names are the ones who secretly recognize themselves in that description.

People with high self-esteem tend to like Kerry. People with none feel threatened. Understandably so.

[FlemingsGhost]

51. As a Psyche Grad student, I find your observations fascinating

I absolutely adore this gem:

"People with high self-esteem tend to like Kerry. People with none feel threatened. Understandably so."

[ProSense]

53. If you're not threatened, then what is it: a secret obsession? n/t

[FlemingsGhost]

55. Nope ... secret study.

Now, tell me about your mother.

[Vektor]

60. I'm completely confident in Kerry's presence...

Despite rumors of his grotesquely over sized WMD.

But I'm fearless that way.

[ProSense]

62. Maybe that's what they're looking for?

Sorta like Booosh.


:rofl:

[Vektor]

63. It's not hard to find.

But it's good to find hard!

BWAAAA HAHAHAHAHAHA

:rofl:

[Vektor]

58. You're all Psych Grad students, huh?

So do you recognize another one when you see one?

Or wasn't it PSYCHE you said you had a degree in? A degree in the study of consciousness...cool, I guess.

(I adore that gem too, BTW, for its accuracy.)

[FlemingsGhost]

64. I'm still failing to recognize a pricipled stand, remember?

I hope I'm better at "spot the future shrink."

LOL ...

[Vektor]

65. Or current, maybe.

That's ok, stick around. That "principled stand" might just jump up and slap you out of nowhere.

Like the WMD currently being discussed. :evilgrin:

Question. Have you ever met Kerry? Sat down and had the proverbial beer with him? Because what you call a "fawning wankfest" is actually a lot of people, many MA residents present and past who HAVE spent time with him, go way back with him, and know his character from personal experience. I'd bet 390489854732895783573 dollars you'd actually LIKE him if you got the chance to talk with him at length.

He's a good time.

[globalvillage]

68. I have.

He's awesome.
:-)

[Vektor]

71. I know you have...

Have we met? :-)

[globalvillage]

73. Hehe

:hi:

[FlemingsGhost]

74. Yes.

Once when I was a teen, (my family includes many New England firefighters, and Kerry was an honored guest at a family/political event) and another time when in undergrad school, in Boston. He was nice enough.

My beef is with regards to Kerry'spolitical opportunism and his support for the war. The IWR was obviously an attempt at backdoor ligitimacy for invasion. Scores here at DU and millions on the streets knew it. John Kerry did not? Sorry. No sale. Kerry was looking to run for office and given the political winds at the time, he did the safest thing for his personal interests.

Now, how do you suppose he is going to ask the last man to die, not only for a mistake ... but a bald-faced lie?

[Vektor]

85. I'm not sure I agree, but we may have to call it an impasse.

I definitely don't see him as an opportunist. Nor a war supporter. I have the same problem with labeling anyone who voted for the IWR "pro-war" as I do labeling anyone who supports a woman's right to choose "pro-abortion." That's all or nothing talk, and not entirely fair. I believe Kerry was mislead and manipulated the same as all of the other majority of congress who voted for this.

And just because scores here at DU saw Bush's lies for what they were, I DO buy that many in Congress believed that the legislation they were voting on was what it was worded to be. Kerry has said in more recent interviews that knowing what he knows now he would NOT vote the same.

And while I appreciate that you met Kerry years ago, I and several others here at DU had the opportunity to speak with him just this month, and you'd be surprised what "those on the ground" know that those in the Senate do not, and don't find out until they talk face to face with constituents at length.

The Senate is actually quite sheltered. You should have seen the look on his and Teresa's faces when we told them about some of the stuff being discussed on the blogosphere, on "the streets" some of the issues that we have all been talking about for months that they have never even heard about.

You can't fake that kind of shock. A Psych major knows about spontaneous emotional facial expressions and how much they give away.

I believe that Kerry would never have supported the IWR if he saw this coming. Look how many voted to authorize it. Surely they are not all warmongers. And like another poster said up thread, it was a very deliberately timed vote, and a set-up. Right before the 2004 election. How unpatriotic one would have seemed refusing to "authorize further weapons inspections" and "protect the U.S.."

I am most furious at Bush et al, for manipulating this piece of legislation, and playing upon the fears of the American people to practice dangerous, greedy, partisan politics.

[karynnj]

98. The millions were on the streets in Jan and Feb 2003

before the invasion. I went with muy husband and kids to the NYC and DC ones. Kerry had to vote in Oct 2002. kerry had a Sept 6, 2002 NYT editorial that said that the WoT authorization did not give Bush the right to invade Iraq and that a unilateral attack on a country that hadn't attacked us was illegal, He called on Bush to go to the UN and to attempt to get the inspectors back in. Kerry along with other Senators tried to change language in the IWR - and did take out things such as additional reasons Bush could attack Iraq (regime change and stabalizing the middle east were taken out). Bush and Powell said this was a bill to give them leverage in the UN and was not a vote for war.

Kerry has said that he was wrong to trust Bush at his word and that he accepts his share of the reponsibility because of this. (Oct 2005 Georgetown speech) From his demeanor, I don't think this statement was either cavilier or easy for him to make. In the AAR interview played this Christmas, Bender asker if he asked himself how you could ask a soldier to die in Iraq - his answer was that he had to stay true to himself, but at this point Iraq was not like Vietnam.

No matter how Kerry voted, Bush would have gone to war. Bush would have even gone to war if the IWR was defeated - the war would actually have started earlier. Probably after a US plane in the no fly zone was fired on (which happened all the time.) It is likely that the only way that had a remote chance of avoiding a war was through the inspectors going in and appearing to succeed - which did happen. What is more bizarre is that Bush invaded as Iraq was destroying its most powerful weapons.

If it was political - why would Kerry express some very cautious hope in late fall 2002 when the inspecters were in that war could be avoided. Why did Kerry (at Georgetown in March 2003) before the invasion demand that Bush let the inspecters have more time. Then after Bush invaded, why did Kerry call for regime change here.

Think about it - these actions are consistent with what Kerry says was his motivation - to try to push Bush to the UN and to go to war only as a last resort if absolutely needed. They were inconsistent with it being for political purposes because if the war went "well", they would have been used to say he was anti-war. Why not accept his explanations when they are the simplest explanation of his actions.

[LittleClarkie]

101. Considering the man has said it was wrong, and even claimed his part

of the blame, one would think that folks could stop beating their titties about that vote as if Kerry was the tie breaker or something. Others who voted the same way have been forgiven, why not Kerry?

[karynnj]

105. I may be really off base, but I would guess that the

person I was responding to may hold Kerry more guilty because he had expected more of him then from the average Senator. I may be really out of line - which I pro-actively apologize for if I am assuming too much. (and I'm not a psychology major. :) )

The reason I even think that was based both on his comments and my own feeling when I heard Kerry listed as one who said he would vote for it although he had resevations. I was not a MA resident and knew Kerry only though the Sunday shows (where I usually agreed with him) and because, like everyone of my generation - I remembered what he did so bravely in 1971.

I do believe Kerry's explanations - because they make more sense then any alternative explanation of his actions. Also, because he is a very honest person.

[LittleClarkie]

106. I would think that more would be expected of the Minority Leader too

and yet you don't here that he voted for the IWR near as much as you do with Kerry. Or is it just the residual bad taste that comes with being the last candidate to lose. I bet Gore didn't have it too good either after his election.

[FlemingsGhost]

67. Master's in Psychology

with a certification in Art Therapy.

[Vektor]

69. Art Therapy?

Now that sounds interesting.

I find this masterpiece therapeutic:


Totally cures pelvic congestion.

[mtnsnake]

91. Now there's a familiar sounding combination!

My daughter majored in Psychology & Art and got her Masters recently in Art Therapy.

[blm]

115. If you can get past attacking Kerry, I would have something amazing to

share with you re your work.

[karynnj]

70. Psyche grad student -

as opposed to Psych - just what could this mean.

[FlemingsGhost]

80. Typo ... or Freudian slip?

Or simply part of the field study?

Hmmmmmmmmmm ...

[karynnj]

90. You are the psyche major, not me

Math and Economics here - and years ago. But what does your fireld say about someone who constantly repeats the same objection - ignoring any reasonable explanation or any new event. One would think that having the first detailed exit plan and being the one to insist that the Senate Intelligence committee complete part 2 of the WMD report and to consider the DSM in this endevor are significant. (The point - the reason JK is more concerned about this than most is that Bush did abuse his trust. Consider we have a President that knowingly lied us into war.)

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rox63]

24. The IWR vote was a setup

* and his minions timed it right before the election, so that anyone who was running for office that year could be smeared as unpatriotic if they voted against it. House and Senate members were lied to, and denied the intelligence they needed to make an informed vote. And if you've ever read Kerry's floor speech on the subject of the IWR, you would know that he was NOT voting to send us to war, just to pressure Iraq into allowing inspections.

[Vektor]

27. Bush abused the small amount of authority he was granted.

Sad when your "president" cannot be trusted with any responsibility whatsoever. Most of Congress DID vote for IWR, seeing it as a license to perform further weapons inspections, and halt nuclear proliferation...

Bush saw it as a license to wage war for oil. He abused the presidential power he was granted. Not Kerry's fault or the fault of any other fine upstanding Dems who voted for it at the time.

If it's been said once, it's been said a million times. BUSH LIED. It's blood on HIS hands.

[LittleClarkie]

28. 8 years so far

It appears that he knows how to make a principled stand.

And if his vote was his best judgement, as opposed to the political posturing that some think it was, then I would have to say it was a principled stand as well, regardless of whether or not I agree with it.

[mousie]

32. Kerry 2008!!!

Still the best choice, IMO!!!

[LittleClarkie]

33. Damn skippy

as one of my weirder friends would say.

In other words, damn straight!

[Vektor]

34. So true...

(Grab your umbrella...troll droppings travel down thread!)

[wisteria]

109. I agree entirely! n/t

[karynnj]

41. The political posturing claim never made sense

because he commented when the inspectors were in in the fall of 2002 with very cautious optimsism that they "might" be able to avoid war. He then spoke against the war before the war started in March 2003. Then after the war started, per his promise to loudly critisize if Bush abused the resolution - Kerry called for regime change.

All consistent with what Kerry said in the summer of 2002, as one of the first critics when Bush first made steps towards Iraq, in his September 2002 NYT op-ed where he said the WoT resolution didn't give permission and that unilateral war was not legal, and in his speech explaining his vote. That he was the only one with exactly his position probably reflects his concern about terrorism - which he wrote about in 1996, his insistance that there be international diplomacy and a lack of cynicism.

[LittleClarkie]

45. Aye, but knowing that would take an open mind and an open eye

As opposed to thinking you know what the man is about, and then never looking again.

I suspect other supporters of other people have the same experience that we do, re: knowing what their guy means and noticing small things in what they say that others would miss.

I took the time in the spring of 2004 to get to know a man I was none too enthused about because I wanted to help get Bush out of office. It took a bit to overcome my distaste, so it's not like I went in expecting to even like him much. I just needed to like him enough to campaign for him.

I sorta overshot the mark.

[Vektor]

47. Just about everyone who actually meets him and spends time

talking to him ends up loving and respecting, and yes, UNDERSTANDING him. The haters typically have a very skewed view of the reality of him from the media, or bitterness left over from some other issue that has less to do with Kerry than it has to do with their own hang-ups.

[bear425]

38. Vote again for him here:

http://newpoliticalreview.com/poll.php

Rank all 100 U. S. Senators on the basis of four criteria: Integrity, honor, dignity and character

edit: hopefully, this site is not using Diebold...

[globalvillage]

54. LOL. Frist is dead last.

:rofl:

[LittleClarkie]

66. M'god is that what Spector looked like with hair?!

Dayum, he was kinda cute! For a Republican, that is.

But then even Biden wasn't half bad before the hair plugs.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

75. how fun!

For once, I was able to vote for my own two senators (Burr, Dole)

:evilgrin:

[bear425]

81. For ? As in: against?

Isn't it fun to know how well loved (not) Lieberman is?

[ncrainbowgrrl]

103. Oh yeah. For having little dignity, integrity, etc.

I gave them the marks that they deserved. Since they're so interested in serving my interests, I felt that it was only fair for me to return the favor. :D

[Blue_In_AK]

83. John Kerry is my president...

He consistently looks out for our best interests.

[Vektor]

87. Coming from Alaska - that means a lot.

I know he and the other Senators who fought so tirelessly to block ANWR do care very deeply about your wildlife refuge and the environment in general.

[bklyncowgirl]

86. Kerry's a good man.

By and large he's been on the right side of most issues for years, arguing with intelligence and conviction for the greater good.

We can pick the guy apart, and I've been guilty of that, but I admire his ability to continue the fight on his own terms.

I don't know whether he should get another shot at the presidency. He'll have to convince me that he's capable of taking the gloves off and doing what it takes to win in order to get my support, but he's been doing good work in the Senate and for that I congratulate him.

[Vektor]

88. He's been a lot more vocal on some of the major issues lately, too.

IWR, election fraud, environmental concerns. Granted, I think he's always been pretty vocal, but a rash of recent interviews lately have displayed a whole new confidence.

"Rumor has it" some of his supporters got the chance to talk to him face to face about these issues and reassure him that if he did get vocal about these things, support would be there and he would not be marginalized.

:-)

It's easy to understand how, especially with the matter of election fraud, how he might be worried about being labeled a kook if he came forward without proper proof.

[TayTay]

97. I heard that rumor too!

This support for all Dems who take stands on issues needs to be there. There are still tough votes and tough calls to be made next year and the Dems MUST stand for hearings and for accountability from this 'run and hide' regime. I got Kerry's back in this, as I have Feingold's and Levin's and Clinton's and Reid's and so forth. (As a matter of fact, I have a LTTE to write this evening. NAsty stuff about Kerry in my local paper. Pure wingnut crap. I tink the rumors said something about never letting another news cycle go by unanswered. Hmmm, better get to it then.)

[Vektor]

100. If I recall...

SOMEONE WE KNOW uttered that very same "news cycle" mantra right in his glorious right ear...

While swooning....

[robbedvoter]

107. I wish the two of you a lot of happiness.

[wisteria]

108. I agree with you. I have the upmost respect and admiration for John Kerry!

Thank you for this post.

[OneBlueSky]

110. what Kerry (or someone) needs to do is become the . . .

John Conyers of the Senate . . . if he did that, I'd change my currently semi-negative opinion of him . . . big time . . .

[MH1]

111. Well, the Senate operates differently from the House.

I'm no expert in what can and cannot be done in one vs the other, but the different rules and methodology may make it hard for any one to become "the John Conyers of the Senate."

However, in his 20+ years in the Senate, John Kerry has conducted more major investigations of political corruption, with forces arrayed against him from both sides, than (I think) any other Senator you could name. For three: BCCI, POW-MIA, Iran-Contra/CIA drug-running. He has called repeatedly for investigation of the Downing Street memo (he doesn't sit on the Intelligence Committee so he's somewhat limited in what he can do). As ranking member of the Small Biz committee he has called for, and had some success in addressing, a variety of corruptive practices. Small Biz may not seem sexy to DU'ers, but it is the answer to economic empowerment of individuals.

That's just a starting list. Any other candidates for "the John Conyers of the Senate"? And how do we make sure these guys / gals get visibility for their efforts?

[second edition]

112. I agree 100%. Kerry took a bold stand along with the others and

got the truth out about this underhanded trick that held our soldiers,the victims of Katrina and the poor hostage to drilling in ANWAR. What is even more amazing is that many people,IMO, understood what was going on with this vote and didn't like it. They got a little taste of how the Senate operates and voting manipulated.