A concern about our representation of DU.

[NoQuarter]

Once and for all, (hope DOES spring eternal) apostrophe - s ('s) DOES NOT MAKE A PLURAL. IT MAKES A POSSESSIVE (or a contraction with "is".)

I come here to read truth and common sense. I learned so much in my years as a lurker here on DU. I am now political because of the things I have learned here.

But because some basic English which I learned in grade school seems to have eluded so many, I feel many of our positions are simply dismissed by the spies for the MSM who come here to see what's up. It matters not one iota what we have to say if it reads like "All Children Left Behind."

We repeatedly take great pleasure from the ignorance displayed in freepers' posts. (If it's already plural - ending with "s"- just add an apostrophe for possessive.) But some of the posts by our own; often brilliant analyses and ideas, are clearly not proofread and leave us in that same vulnerable position of not being taken seriously.

The presumption of validity is on THEIR side. THEY'RE looking for signs of viable life on OUR side. Life that they MUST recognize. Second grade knowledge of the written word, for their purposes, does not qualify. (Don't confuse their, they're, and there. Their is a possessive pronoun: | I like their new car. They’re is a contraction of 'they are': | they’re parking the car. There is an adverb meaning 'at that place': | park the car over there.)

In this world, where the internet has become just about the only source of truth, THE WRITTEN WORD IS EVERYTHING. Talking the talk is no longer good enough. You've gotta be able to write the talk, too.

No one is perfect, but elementary ignorance of one's native tongue makes it easier (for them) to relegate one's thoughts and ideas to the rubbish heap. Especially when the arbiters of which ideas are worthy of airing are in control of which ideas actually see the light of day.

I just had to get this off my chest. Flame on if you must.

[leveymg]

1. Agreed, DU needs grammar check.

I know - my bad.

And, pronounce those H's. Elbows off the table. :donut:

[Dogmudgeon]

2. Bravo!

I quiet agree. Their's nothing like good grammer and spelling too enhants the impactfulness of a massage.

:evilgrin:

I've always liked to write, but my grasp of grammar used to be terrible. Then I got copy of a Handbook of the English Language and kept it next to the typewriter. By the time a friend of mine put me wise to Strunk and White, I didn't really need it (though I enjoyed reading it anyway). It's not difficult at all to learn to write well when you take it one rule, one point, one stylistic principle at a time. And once you get to that level, it starts to take on the feel of an art, not a technical chore.

Incidentally, you don't have to be perfect -- just good. Give it a shot!

--p!

[rooboy]

3. Looks like some won kneads to get off they're hi whores... n/t

[bliss_eternal]

5. LMAO!

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

11. LOL!

:rofl:

[txindy]

47. Now, now, be series. This is a HUGH problem!!1!

Your knot beeing series. Shaime, shaime! Im so glad that Free Republikkk can help with hour grammer lessons.

:rofl:

Jebus, talk about a hit-and-run OP.

[SoCalDem]

71. Hay.. Grammer Not sees canned help it. Their just bean helpful

[EFerrari]

108. I 'am series as a hart atack!!!1

Know whey dew we right like thoughs freps.

:rofl:

[SammyWinstonJack]

48. !

:spray:

[formernaderite]

78. hahaha....

you know I make many errors...mainly because I'm typing too fast

[Chipper Chat]

4. Some secretary's do thi's too.

Ever look at the clas'sified ad's in the new'spaper? "100 CD's for sale." etc: Or read typo's like this in memo's from your own own bos's? I even caught my'self doing it once. Kinda like republican s'pin. If you see it done incorrectly enough it become's proper. Thank's for being bold enough to mention s'omething about it.

[MichaelHarris]

6. Huh?

I'm not sure I'm ready judge someone by their inability to put thoughts to keyboards. How can you possibly know if someone writing in anger, fingers flying, thoughts streaming, and children to feed is "intelligent" enough to post on any board? Sure they'll make mistakes, sure they my not know a pronoun from a adverb but that does not make their point any less valid.

I remember a very nice person on this very site driven away because he was ridiculed over his grammar. This is a very sad point you are trying to make.

Michael

[punpirate]

7. Well, no...

... "'s" is not exclusively a plural--it's equally a contraction for "xxx is," and that's where much of the confusion arises. The single greatest abuse of the "'s" plural here is not its general use with proper nouns, but, rather, in the use of "it's" for the possessive. The possessive of "it" is "its," not "it's," which is, instead, the contraction for "it is."

Nevertheless, that's not why thoughts and ideas here are subject to derision by the right. It is their content, not their grammar which is derided by that faction, although I, too, would dearly love to see an improvement here regarding the latter.

Cheers.

[EFerrari]

15. We need a Fair Editor more than a Fair Witness.

Maybe Skinner should consider requiring two people per generated post, one to write it and one to right it. Then dyslexics like myself wouldn't live in fear of offending or in the certain knowledge that we will.

lol

[punpirate]

17. Uh, I think fair witness is more important...

... these days. :)

I've tried very hard not be one of the grammar police here, despite my years teaching English. :) It's a difficult habit to break. People often post in hurry, and slips occur, and one must make allowances for that haste. Few here are submitting essays for a grade. :P

[bliss_eternal]

8. Your argument would go farther if rw sites weren't always

misspelled and fraught with spelling errors.

Why do you need to make such a statement? It seems rather rude of you to do so...

[Buns_of_Fire]

9. I love threads like this

:popcorn:

[bliss_eternal]

13. I usually don't do this--

but may I have some of that? ;)

[Buns_of_Fire]

20. By all means, help yourself!

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
There's plenty for all!
Would you like something to drink?
:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

(Seriesly, I've learned a thing or two about grammar since I've been around here -- I'm a lot more careful about my apostrophe use than I used to me. I'm still Hooked on Ellipses, though...)

[bowens43]

10. So , we can assume that all posts

can be sent to you for approval before being published on DU?

What a pompous , pretentious post (especially for a newbie). Maybe you should start paying more attention to content and less time trying to prove to yourself that you are so much better than your fellow Democrats.

Your post has been sent to the rubbish heap.

[bliss_eternal]

12. Well said, bowens.

Bravo! :applause:

[RandomKoolzip]

116. There's an unnecessary space before a comma in your post.

Just sayin'. :shrug:

[caledesi]

14. Don't get me started! Apostrophes are for possessive nouns...

and contractions. Yeah the one you mentioned is among my pet peeves and it really bothers me bec you see it on TV even.

I get really frustrated bec I have always been super at English grammar and spelling, but I can't rely on it anymore. Since my disability (neurological disorder), there are days when I actually type a word and I know that it isn't correct. On these days, I don't have good concentration and only post very short messages.

My disability has mellowed me out though, so I try not to judge quite so quickly. BTW, if you want to see really bad spelling and grammar, take a walk over to freeperville. Wow! Talk about morans!*

*That's a constant joke here at DU.



Lose or loose....Discuss. (another one of my pet peeves)

edit: spelling of course

[bliss_eternal]

22. This brings up something no one seems to bother to consider

that not everyone that posts on DU has the capacity to type accurately. They may mean well, but have other disabilities that don't allow them to utilize perfect spelling and grammar.

It's presumptious to assume that everyone that doesn't write correctly is an idiot.

The posts that go on about this kind of thing are also condescending.

Why not volunteer in your communities as a literacy volunteer instead of lording your excellent grammar and spelling over others? (I don't mean you specifically just those that feel the need to start these sort of threads).

[Viva_La_Revolution]

49. another problem is the state of education...

I know some very smart people, one is a newbie here, who is a bit afraid to post because he knows his language skills are lacking, and he's afraid the grammar/spelling nazis will come after him.

How do you like that for sentence structure!

[FlaGranny]

84. I have earned my living

since high school with my command of English (both grammar and spelling), but I have multiple sclerosis. A combination of that AND getting older has caused me to think one word and type another or to leave a word out of a sentence. Sometimes this problem causes me to type "their" when I mean "there" and I'll actually think I've typed the correct word. I have lost some of my ability for unconscious repetition. It always feels weird, when I read something after I've posted it, and there is my goof for all the world to see. That's why you will notice many of my posts have been edited. I hate it if I don't proofread and the time for editing has expired.

[Buns_of_Fire]

23. It's enough to make you loose your mind, sometimes

I think part of the problem is that, pre-Internet days, most of the written text people saw was in books or magazines -- stuff that had already gone through an editor with a copy of Strunk and White engraved on their eyeballs. In reading printed text over and over, you developed a sense for what just "feels" right and what doesn't.

Today, we use the Internet, where people are their own editors. Sometimes that approach works, sometimes it doesn't. And sometimes, a little rap on the knuckles helps keep us all in line.*


* Like beginning a sentence with "and," which got me no end of knuckle-rapping in my young and innocent days. :shrug:

[lvx35]

16. An odd coincidence.

I was standing in line at the coffee shop tonight and the women in front of me were making fun of some food in the case, labeled "Beef Enchilada's". Since "ingredients" followed on the next line, they were wondering if the apostrophe was intended. Funny stuff.

[EST]

18. My fondest hope, as regards written language, was, with

the advent of the internet, that the demand for reading and writing skills would bring about a universal improvement in literacy and usage. Perhaps it has - the merely good have gotten better and the atrocious a bit more understandable.

I do fear, however, in the interest of communication and avoidance of fussiness, the overall literacy level has fallen to the point that even private writing has become a chore. I don't feel that I am particularly bigoted, but I will often skip past a difficult to translate post as simply not worth the effort, assuming the sloppiness and lack of interest in technique betrays an equivalent sloppiness of thinking.
As you point out, someone who is perceptive enough to be questioning his own basic thinking and looking for a way to learn and communicate may well be put off by the shallowness and thus delay understanding.
One shouldn't expect miracles.

[ClintonTyree]

19. Sometimes DU spell-check will kick out a plural possessive.......

and offer the singular possessive. It's happened many times to me, I click "ignore" but sometimes they get through. DU spell-check isn't perfect and some of these "offenses" you cite are often the fault of DU spell-check. Whatever.

[necso]

21. Well,

if we must.

http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/acronyms.html

"One unusual modern use of the apostrophe is in plural acronyms, like “ICBM’s” “NGO’s” and “CD’s”. Since this pattern violates the rule that apostrophes are not used before an S indicating a plural, many people object to it. It is also perfectly legitimate to write “CDs,” etc. See also “50’s.” But the use of apostrophes with initialisms like “learn your ABC’s” and “mind your P’s and Q’s” is now so universal as to be acceptable in almost any context.

Note that “acronym” was used originally only to label pronounceable abbreviations like “NATO,” but is now generally applied to all sorts of initialisms. Be aware that some people consider this extended definition of “acronym” to be an error."

(Personally, I have moved to the "CDs" form... mostly, anyway.)

Link in the above:

"There’s no requirement for the apostrophe before the “S” in decade names like 50s and 60s, since there are no omitted letters, though it’s also acceptable to include one. The term may be written “’50s” since “19” is being omitted, but “50s” is fine too. Writers who wish to have their references to decades clearly understood in the twenty-first century would be well advised not to omit the first two digits."

(But I am not claiming that this is a definitive source -- rather just an alternative "school of thought".)

And there are good reasons for using the apostrophe in (at least some of) these circumstances.

For example, if we had, say, the term "4s", then this can be read as 4-multiplied-times-s (4*s) as opposed to the plural of "4", whereas "4's" is not so subject to such a common (mathematical) (mis)interpretation.

Personally, where there are alternative (reasonable) schools of thought on some subject, I find it rather illiberal to insist that only one has validity. (At least where the related "proof" isn't a rigorous mathematical type of thing.)

But yeah, "dog's" is not the plural of "dog"... although "dgh's" is (to me) an acceptable plural of "dgh". (And a necessary one I would insist, if we were, say, searching for -- and recording -- multiple occurrences of the term (string) "dgh" in some source. For if, in this context, one were to write "5 dghs", then this could easily be misinterpreted to mean five occurrences of the term "dghs", which is significantly different than five occurrences of the term "dgh".)

Put another way, I see your suggested usage as being implicitly over the set of english words, exclusive of letters (used as such), numbers, acronyms, initialisms and some other terms. And pushing that usage beyond these bounds is questionable to my mind.

[Ravy]

24. I like nescos' retort best!

P.S. I did that on purpose.

[ScreamingMeemie]

25. Whut? This is and unseemly jester on yer part.

:hi:

[KitchenWitch]

31. Can I be the spocksperson for this

I am a cazy womin.

[uppityperson]

97. have sempithy for us

some of us don't spell goud

[Epiphany4z]

26. I am guilty

I have always had problems with spelling and grammar. I have a disability that adds to the problem. In the past I would skip posting or voicing my opinion on line because of the spelling and grammar nazis. Try posting on an atheist sight with bad spelling or grammar Yikes!!!!

I know some people just can't help but be aggravated by the errors but I think it is more important to hear what others have to say. I don't even jump on freepers for it.

I do have anything I send to a senator or paper proof read by someone else just to clarify.

[seabeyond]

32. at last, i am guilty too. but it isnt anything as honorable as

an actual brain rewiring that makes it challenging for me. it is solely because i am too lazy to take my little ole finger over to the button and push it. i figure the words i am saying are the important part of the message and give the reader enough credit that they can figure out isnt is is not...... and really it isnt such a big deal whether it has an '.

sometimes assuming is not always a good thing. i guess

yet still, i think i will maintain my lazy ways, and just continue as i am.

[zippy890]

27. I didnt finish high school

and I can not type well.

this makes me want to:hide:
and:yoiks:

and not post anymore

[KitchenWitch]

35. Don't stop posting...

on account of some elitist person who wants to lord their linguistic superiority over everyone.

I am dyslexic, and oftentimes have a difficult time with spelling and grammar. So sue me!

If you have something to say, say it. I would much rather get into rational discussion about logical arguments rather than grammatical ones!

:hi:

[Le Taz Hot]

50. I REALLY don't mean for this to be

snarky because its certainly not intended to be, but wouldn't a better solution be to improve your spelling/grammar skills? As one who has been blessed with a good basic education and fairly decent writing skills, I can tell you it has given me great advantage in situations in which good writing skills have been required.

A poster above had a great suggestion about obtaining a writing style handbook (Strunk & White, MLA handbook, APA handbook, etc.) and taking one rule at a time.

On edit: punkshuashun :o

[smartvoter]

87. Ignore this crap and speak your mind. You count as much as

anyone else does. Hell, many successful entrepreneurs and many of our greatest leaders didn't make it through high school, and even more are college dropouts.

[patricia92243]

28. I post to other members of DU - NOT to some lurkers who might use my posts

I agree that correct grammer is nice to have, but the point of DU is to talk to each other. Part of our party's problem is always being afraid of what Republicans will say about us. It's not going to happen to me on my very own DU!!!

[ProfessorGAC]

29. I Recommend Prozac

Geez, calm down. The content of the posts here is far more important than simple grammatical issues. I see some that annoy me, as well, but the last thing i could care about is whether some subsimian from FR attempts to use a grammatical error to denigrate an idea without being remotely able to absorb the concepts.
The Professor

[greekspeak]

30. May I ask, Professor? Do you grade your papers or does a TA?

We all have our pet peeves. One of mine is that rules governing the use of apostrophes seem to have ceased to exist. After the 40th paper in a stack of college sophomore level papers, the misuse of apostrophes starts grating on my nerves. Surely the great Professor has a few grammatical pet peeves if he or she grades his or her own papers.

[ProfessorGAC]

38. I Said I Did

But, people writing papers for a grade is different. Those people are supposed to care what i think, or any other teacher at any level. That's why we get to grade the papers that they are supposed to write.

But, i would opine that concern over whether or not some idiot conservative uses a grammatical error in a DU post as proof of anything other than a grammatical error is much ado about nothing.

It simply doesn't warrant the concern, because quite frankly, who cares what they think?
The Professor

[alcibiades_mystery]

42. You shouldn't grade 40 in a row

Never grade more than 12-15 papers a day. Of course you'll go crazy and start getting annoyed by pet peves rather than teaching through grading, which is what you're supposed to be doing.

[EFerrari]

51. Or you will end up collapsing in a hysterical fit

because somehow King Lear is wandering around the Forrest of Arden -- my personal favorite.

:rofl:

[greekspeak]

66. How does the school where you teach require you to grade?

I teach what in Florida is known as a Gordon Rule course. In addition to demands on students, the demand on me is to play grammar teacher. Up to 25% of paper grades in my course come from grammar. So I have to grade the grammar and fuss over such things. If I grade 4 or 40 at a time, by the time I am at the bottom of the stack, I want to pull my hair out. Not only is it tedious marking all these papers up, I give them a writing guide with specific instructions. They do not even READ it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

67. Well, I teach English anyway

college level.

Grammar is important, to be sure, but "correctness" is always tied to a rhetorical situation (i.e., nobody expects correctness in instant messaging, and everyone expects it in a cover letter or legal contract - although the convention on semicolons in law is not the same as in grammar generally, etc.). Even if I'm teaching a first-year comp course, I take grammar to be subordinate to argument and general rhetorical savvy. That doesn't mean that I don't "correct" it, and it doesn't mean I don't teach it. But I always teach it as a component of a rhetorical situation, rather than as a value in its own right. And, of course, we know that many grammatical "rules" were simply made up wholecloth by Strunk & White, and literally have no history or function, the infamous "that-which" distinction for restrictive and non-restrictive clauses being the most comical and stupid (and therefore, insisted on by demented English teachers everywhere!?!).

[greekspeak]

75. This explains a lot of what I am hearing from you

Teachers in my position have to unteach this passivity to grammar. It is why we get statements like "bit in the butt" and "Matthews (sic) account was real scary cause they knew a beaten (sic) was comin (sic)" The papers the students write for me are research papers. Crap like "I think" and "I feel" do not belong in research papers. I expect objective and properly written work from my students. When your students get out of college and into jobs, they will have to know how to write grammatically correct English. I had English teachers like you for composition my Freshman year of college. Then I spent three years of my undergraduate degree and a great deal of my time in graduate school learning how to write properly.

[alcibiades_mystery]

79. Oh my

I did nothing here to insult you, and this is how you respond. That says it all about whether you learned to "write properly."

And, as I said, I teach grammar, and - if I do say so - my students learn it damn well. However, it is not the main focus of writing education at the college level, and shouldn't be. When they go out into the workplace, they also have to know how to negotiate complex situations and exert pressure through writing to get things done. If you have flawless grammar, and cannot organize an argument or recognize the way your audience may respond, you'll be known as that guy who never says much of interest, but damn, that grammar. This should be easy enough to recognize. As for your writing philosophy, it is well-known and has quite a few pedagogical problems - most of which are well covered in the literature. That said, I think we can have this conversation without all the insults. You don't know how I work as a teacher, and you don't know how my students write.

[alcibiades_mystery]

69. And another thing

a) They don't read it
b) Marking everything is simply bad pedagogy

Nobody learns anything from a paper that is returned marked up to hell with every little error. They don't read it not because they're apathetic, but because they know damn well that they can't learn much from it. It has been common practice for years now to mark maybe one or two recurrent grammatical errors in a paper; students can - and do - learn from this. They don't repeat the errors when they are highlighted and specified. If it's just a jumble of red ink, the student will only "learn" that he or she is an ignoramus ("I'm not good at writing," - the hallmark of a student who had every damn commasplice triple-underlined and penalized), and that he or she should work on other things. It's bad pedagogy, period. Maybe it's good gatekeeping - and many schools do consider gatekeeping their role - but it's piss-poor teaching.

[greekspeak]

72. Thank you for your critique of my teaching abilities.

I appreciate your letting me know that doing what I MUST do as a grader makes me a "piss-poor teacher." I have to mark EVERYTHING to cover my ass, or the department head or my major professor will just give the student whatever grade they want if they bitch. It has happened time and time and time again. By marking all those things, the student has no leg to stand on when they bitch about their grade.

[alcibiades_mystery]

74. Whoa, easy there

I did not say that at all. I said that the requirement to mark everything is pedagogically bad, not that YOU were a "piss-poor teacher." (There is no such quote in my post, by the way).

As far as the rest of it goes, I don't consider teaching a contest with the student whereby I design ways to prevent their complaints.

But again, with respect to the requirement at your school, I am more upset at the requirement itself than at the fact that you comply with it. Obviously, you must comply with it. However, it may be useful to present the schoolboard with, uh, I dunno, the last 30 years of research on writing assessment in order to demonstrate that the requirement is not very useful and may, in fact, be counter-productive. That changing the requirement would also ease your workload should be a bonus. Basically, they're maki9ng you work harder for poorer results. And that's never good.

[wookie294]

33. I haven't seen a lot of bad grammar on DU

I also haven't seen a lot of incorrectly-spelled words at DU. Try hanging out on Yahoo messages boards. Now, THERE you will find reich wing kindergarten politicians, but it's great!! Very entertaining!!

[Cobalt Violet]

34. Pretty anal and petty.

Did I say that write,right,reich?

[Cats Against Frist]

46. Agreed. n/t.

[Igel]

63. Butt wood ewe

higher a pearsun hu rote lighk dis?

Eye mien, reely. Watsa medduh wid small-mineded peepuh?

[KitchenWitch]

36. Do we not have larger fish to fry...

than picking apart other DUers grammatical, punctuation, and spelling errors?

LIKE PERHAPS DEFEATING THE REPUBLICANS AND NEOCONS IN THE NEXT SET OF ELECTIONS?????

[SammyWinstonJack]

52. Exactly what I was thinking.

:eyes: Sheesh!

[KitchenWitch]

53. See my poll

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x312002

[Vinca]

37. Let me be the first to beg forgiveness.

As an older DUer, the brain hasn't been working as well as it used to. I write "to" when thinking "too," "do" when thinking "due," and every so often an apostrophe appears where it shouldn't be. I usually catch it when proofreading and become extremely mortified if I don't. I agree with the basic premise of the original post - after all, we ARE smarter than the 'pukes - but I'd rather see posts with grammatical errors rather than no posts at all.

[Mr.Green93]

39. Net Nanny

Much?

[lectrobyte]

40. I am annoyed by it's vs its, and their/there, and some others, but...

I even find myself making these kinds of errors when I'm in a hurry to answer a bunch of email or share my glorious insights (site/sight bugs me too btw) with DUers... We should try harder, agreed, but judge not too harshly. Oh yeah, one more new acronym to figure out and I'll never LOL again.

[Yupster]

64. A lot is the one that bugs me

If we can just all remember that a lot is a lot of words.

[AbbyR]

93. No caps

drives me nuts. As does all caps.
The rest I can just ignore. Wonder what that says about me?

[alcibiades_mystery]

41. Physician, heal thyself

But some of the posts by our own; often brilliant analyses and ideas, are clearly not proofread and leave us in that same vulnerable position of not being taken seriously.

Incorrect use of a semicolon

Tsk tsk.

[mzmolly]

56. LOL

:rofl:

[jayfish]

43. Kind Of Correct Mr. Grammar Teacher.

's are indeed used to form the plurals of numbers e.g., five's, ten's, fifteen's. It also use to show the plural of words uses as words e.g., He used to many but's in his sentence. As far as the media not taking us seriously because of grammar, your joking right? I bet I could go to CNN right now and find ten grammatical errors. Oh, and who gives a rip what the MSM thinks? They ar all a bunch of f'ing toadies anyway.


Jay

[Le Taz Hot]

44. I absolutely agree,

and, on a more personal level, I will actually skip a post in which there are 2-3 spelling/grammatical errors IN THE FIRST SENTENCE (as opposed to the occasional typo, of which we are all guilty). DU is a large place with a lot to read through and filtering is essential. I don't have time to "translate" a post into English.

[strategery blunder]

45. My pet peeve: Lose vs. Loose

Often, I see "loose" used where "lose" should be used.

I don't want to lose the election.

That screw is too loose.

/ :rant:

[Der Blaue Engel]

92. Thank you!

Man, if I see that one more time, I'm going to loose it! (I didn't say what I would loose...could be a plague upon the person.) :D

[Lorien]

103. That's one of mine too. Another is "noone" instead of "no one"

"Noone" is a surname, pronounced "noon". At first I thought that it was a slip of the space bar (we all do that once in a while) but then I discovered that it was intentional. Weird.

Someone pointed out a misspelling in one of my posts just yesterday, and I thanked them for it. Another pointed out the misuse of a word in another (I'm dyslexic, and sometimes I type words that sound like the word I intended, but have entirely different meanings. I have no idea why I do that-d'oh! I just typed "way" instead of "why". Case in point) and I thanked them for bringing it to my attention.I'd rather have one person point out a misspelling then have several people so distracted by it that the message gets lost.

[soup]

54. In my calmest, most soothing mommy voice,

"Their, their, it'll be ok."

[seabeyond]

57. here, hear.............bah hahahah n/t

[mzmolly]

61. I thought it was hear hear?

;)

120. where, where ???? n/t

[soup]

121. over they're! over they're!

:rofl:

[mzmolly]

55. I have horrible grammar and a more than occasional spelling error.

TOUGH SH*T! I am a product of the public school system, and I refuse to stop posting because I offend the DU grammar police. In fact, I may have been an inspiration for this thread?

I do appreciate the lesson, and shall read through the info posted here. I see there is a debate about your post and whether or not it is grammatically correct? ;)

While frightening to many I'm sure, I'll actually be teaching grammar soon to my home-schooled child, so I'll get a refresher in the near - (thank the gods for pre-packaged curriculum!) Until such time, you'll have to put up with me and my bad grammar. I'll leave the good grammar to the educated "elitists" amongst us. As for me, I shall personally embrace, the purpose of dispelling the myth, that democrats ARE elitists, as surely when one reads my posts it shall be clear, such is not the case. No sir, no Yale for me, no harvard, I graduated from technical school, courtesy of the former student loan program.

As for the freeps who find themselves "concerned" I have but one reply:
"Is our children learning." ~ George W. Bush

I guess the answer to the question above is, no, they "ain't."
*ain't* means uhm, ain not :evilgrin:

* I think participation is far more important than proper grammar, and I think correcting another's grammar in the midst of a debate/discussion is petty and rude, though I've been guilty myself. *

I hope my post makes sense, I'm actually laughing as I type and have had a collective 15 hours sleep this week.

Cheers all!

Edited for uhm, grammar.

[VaYallaDawg]

58. Do you feel better getting it off your chest? I hope so.

Tolerance of other people - warts, mistakes, foibles and all - is kinda the touchstone for most of us on DU. We're human - we make mistakes - and that's just the way I like it - and I suspect a lot of other people do too.

So their.

[bliss_eternal]

65. Excellent--Thank you for saying so!

:applause:

The og post and many of the replies ARE more than a little intolerant of others mistakes. None of us is perfect. Not even those that manage to write perfect, grammatically correct posts.

I guess everyone needs to feel better than someone in some way or the other... I thought progressives were beyond this pettiness, apparently I was wrong.

[dogday]

59. I believe in the message

Not everyone has the education or intelligence to adequately express their views, however they do have a want and a need to express those views... I try to read and understand the message as opposed to being an English Teacher or spell checker.

I think too much on the appearance of the subject matter and not enough on the message itself does not allow the true intent of the poster and prohibits those who want to post, an opinion. As long as I understand the meaning of the post, I am not too concerned with much else....

[stepnw1f]

60. I Shall Try My Best, Lord... (nt)

[demnan]

62. Ah, the grammar police.

Actually I make a mental grimace when I read some of the more creative spelling and syntax here but it is everywhere. But you want to see really bad grammar? Go to a techie forum. Yuck!

[Texasgal]

68. Grammer Nazi's... at it again.

This is the LEAST of our problems. :eyes:

[hang a left]

70. ....

[SammyWinstonJack]

122. !

:spray: BTW, has the original poster even bothered to reply, or is this a hit and run post? :yoiks:

[smartvoter]

73. But this is supposed to be a forum with ideas and conversation.

I personally am pretty good about it, but not obsessed, because I tackle DU from a participate-in-many approach, which means I sometimes (read: usually) opt for speed and input as opposed to trying to write something scholarly. I am a writer with an extensive research background and can genuinely write, but I don't view this as the place for it.

[Fox Mulder]

76. This is HUGH!!!!!11111111111

[mikelewis]

125. Serially Hugh, I thoht that my selvs

[senseandsensibility]

77. Life that they MUSTrecognize.

That is a sentence fragment. It took me exactly three seconds to find that. I have not even attempted to find more mistakes in your holier than thou lecture. I am an English teacher, and frequently see mistakes on DU. I have never corrected anyone. But, then again, I could care less what ignorant people think of us. And, yes, by that I do mean people who write insulting posts about others' grammar while making mistakes themselves in the same post.

[katinmn]

98. High fives

[senseandsensibility]

124. Back atcha!

That dog is adorable!:)

[Gregorian]

80. Gonna. Wanna.

I'm sick of it. I could not agree with you more. There is content and then there is context. Someone may have something important to say that transcends grammar. I prefer a continuous attempt to rise above that which has gone before. Not unlike politics.

We fought World War Two to rid ourselves of that by which we find ourselves being governed. We lowered our standards. It does start a low levels. I'm not saying capital punishment for errors in grammer, but I say we attempt to achieve a higher standard.

[meisje]

81. Dammit Jim, I'm a Doctor, not a Grammatician!

[BuyingThyme]

82. Grammatically speaking, your post is poorly written.

You are misusing quotation marks, and periods should almost always be placed inside quotation marks.

But in this case, your grammar is so poor that the period has taken on its own life. When you insert a parenthetical at the end of a sentence, the period goes after the closing of the parenthetical.

I only got as far as your first paragraph.

[abex]

88. i thought a period meant just that, the end of a sentence nt

[BuyingThyme]

89. That's what it means, but that's not where it's placed when

quotation marks are properly used at the end of the sentence.

[abex]

90. when you're right ,you're right. and you're right! nt

[Baconfoot]

113. Periods go inside quotation marks in the United States but not everywhere.

I would prefer to constrain the content of quotation marks to that which actually appeared in the original text.

Occasionally this would mean having to type .". but I prefer clarity to pretty much anything else.

[BuyingThyme]

114. Moot point, in this case.

[FreedomAngel82]

83. It's a message board

You're not writing as a journalist. :eyes:

[bliss_eternal]

85. ...or for a grade.

:eyes:

Hi Freedom Angel! :hi:

[Ksec]

86. I apologise for being stupid.

I am really sorry my grammar isnt up to your standards.

[katinmn]

91. In this land of plenty, not everyone has had the same wonderful

access to education as yourself.

You sound arrogant.

[Horse with no Name]

94. You are sofa king flamed

Whats wrong with our grammer?

[uppityperson]

95. sometimes I type too fast and want to get my thoughts out rather than..

being perfectly grammaratarically correct. So I may not capitalize as I should and I may make other typos. Look at the message. And I really don't care what "they" may think as "they" need no real anything to make fun of "me".

[Warren DeMontague]

96. Seems like most rightwingers can't even READ.The Preznit can't even SPEAK.

How do you explain all the fucking fawning those shitheads receive from the "media"?

[donco6]

99. Now you've asked for it.

Here come the Freedom from Grammar and Clear Communication folks.

eye shud b abl to cumunicat anywayiwantto.sothere

[Cleita]

100. I appreciate your concern for clarity in the posts, however,

it's not going to change anything with the MSM. They do lurk here to see what the other half is up to, but because their loyalty lies with their corporate overlords, our truths will never see the light of day unless they absolutely can't be ignored.

If this were true, the excellent writers on our side like Gore Vidal, Molly Ivins, Michael Moore and many more would have converted them years ago.

[SmokingJacket]

101. Give it a rest.

People type quickly on the Internet and make mistakes. It doesn't harm the English language, which is a living, growing thing. I say this as a writer and teacher of writing. Language is everything to me, but "correct" English isn't necessarily good English. It's just correct.

The grammar and spelling on DU are quite a bit better than on other sites, anyway -- and much better than the "spies for the MSM." You yourself don't know how to use a semicolon, confuse "which" and "that," and use sentence fragments. So what?

My opinion: people who get uptight about grammar and spelling secretly feel inferior to other people, and become grammar police to try to prove to themselves that they're NOT inferior.

[bliss_eternal]

109. Forgive me for saying so, but frankly

:yourock:


Quote:
My opinion: people who get uptight about grammar and spelling secretly feel inferior to other people, and become grammar police to try to prove to themselves that they're NOT inferior.

[Nutmegger]

102. Although this is a bit anal, it's a good refresher

Grammar is one of my pet peeves...:dunce:

But no one should feel unwelcomed no matter what.

Welcome to DU!!! :toast:

[Sydnie]

104. Oh goody - a pet peeves thread!

I really hate it when anyone uses the bathroom in my house and doesn't put the toilet seat and lid down. Now, that might seem like a small thing to some, but when attempting to relieve yourself in the middle of the night, sleepily staggering into that comfort station, only to land with a splash is quite unacceptable to me. It gets my ire all up that, what I learned in elementary school is ignored by so many people.

And, while I'm at it, let's talk about leaving the loaf of bread open. Doesn't it stand to reason that if you expose the entire loaf of bread to the air over an extended period of time, that all the bread will get hard and dried out? I just never understood that not being obvious to everyone.


You see, what bothers you is what bothers you. What bothers me is what bothers me.

I am often trying to juggle a brazillion things at the same time, while attempting to educate myself on current events here as well. Expressing myself, typo's and all, seems more important than if I use there, their, or they're. As long as the idea is sound, it has been proven that most people will compensate for the mistake and read it as it was intended to be, not what was written literally.

Feel free to critique any of my posts and I will feel free to .... post with all my warts showing if need be.

[Katherine Brengle]

105. semantics?

"If it's already plural - ending with "s"- just add an apostrophe for possessive."

Actually, I was an English major in college, and as far as I know, the correct way to add a possessive to a word ending in 's' is to add an apostrophe and an additional 's'. (Should that period go inside the quote if it is not really a quote? Semantics, lol.)

I agree that presentation is a big part of being taken seriously, though.

[Baconfoot]

117. Actually, the actual correct way to make a word ending in 's' possessive

is to just add an apostrophe.

If you are an English major, you might have a Chicago manuel of style hanging around. Look it up in there to see that I'm correct.
Here are a few links:

http://www.ucalgary.ca/UofC/eduweb/grammar/course/speech/1_1c.htm
http://www.meredith.edu/grammar/plural.htm

By the way, I stand squarely against criticizing grammar on message boards.

[Katherine Brengle]

118. I'm going to sue to get my tuition back!!! I'll check it out, lol. n/t

[helderheid]

106. My husband is Dutch and has trouble with those pesky apostrophes

In Dutch, it indicates something is plural.


Love your post.

[BuyingThyme]

107. Yes, I've seen that on German auto shops.

("German Auto's.")

[Kellanved]

131. German doesn't use the apostrophe

Except to indicate contraction.
Using an apostrophe, be it to indicate a plural or a genitive, is practically always very poor style and often wrong.

[Redstone]

110. I agree with you're opinion's. Their arent enough poster's here who know

when to use apostrophe's and when they shouldnt.

Red'stone

[bliss_eternal]

112. hehehehehe

:rofl:

[mikelewis]

127. I think you misunderestimate some folks and you're dissassembling...

that means to not tell the truth.

[KitchenWitch]

129. Bravo!

:applause:

[Coexist]

111. sometimes I post on the fly - only to come back later

and realize that I typed 'it' instead of 'is' and spell-check didn't pick it up (because it wasn't spelled wrong).

Sorry.

[MsUSA]

115. I'm sorry too.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Cooley Hurd]

119. I'm sorry to have let you down...

I've tried, TRIED to please you! I've failed you, yet again. I'm just such a loser! I'm evil! EEEEVIL!:banghead:

[Jim__]

123. Sticklers unite!

Lynne Truss wrote a whole book on the subject. It opens with:

Either this will ring bells for you, or it won't. A printed banner has appeared on the concourse of a petrol station near to where I live. "Come inside," it says, "for CD's, VIDEO's, DVD's, and BOOK's."

If this satanic sprinkling of redundant apostrophes causes no little gasp of horror or quickening of the pulse, you should probably put down this book at once. By all means congratulate yourself that you are not a pendant or even a stickler; that you are happily equipped to live in a world of plummeting punctuation standards; but just don't bother to go any further. ...

Unfortunately, that's as far as I got in the book.

[Skelington]

126. I'ts just kommin cents. ;)

[incapsulated]

128. Just stop writing "noone" instead of "no one".

I'm begging you, people. :cry:

[Nikki Stone 1]

130. My pet peeve is "nucular"

For the last time, JUNIOR, the word is NU-CLE-AR.

[Moderator]

132. locking

discussion is no longer productive