Bush has NO INTENTIONS of leaving OFFICE in 2009

[berni_mccoy]

Everything that the Bush Administration is doing is pointing toward turning the U.S. into a DICTATORSHIP. And I believe it could very well happen in the next two years. There are several indicators pointing toward this theory:

- Bush has been testing public reaction, especially among opposition, against atrocities committed by his Administration: unlawful seizure, prisoner torture, silencing any form of opposition in the executive branch, violating 1st amendment rights (limiting free speech), violating separation of church and state, violating 4th amendment rights (warrentless wire-taps, domestic spying), plundering of the treasury to divide it among select corporations and the wealthy, the list goes on and on. How has the public reacted to his dictator-like behavior? A few protests, but no serious inquiries or investigations (save one) into his unlawful behavior. The public has been amazingly silent. The two people who have caused him the most political damage: Cindy Sheehan (who survived a terrible swift-boating attempt, but they are still trying) and ironically, Ashcroft and Comey who appointed Patrick Fitzgerald as an independent prosecutor with the power equal to the Attorney General (i.e. he can't be fired).

- Probably the most egregious actions by this administration has been the dismantling of our national defense. This is one of the biggest changes that has slipped under the radar without notice until Katrina hit the Gulf Coast. An administration who appears completely hawkish would seem to want to build the military up to its greatest strengths and be the most daunting, powerful military on the history of the planet. This would seem to be unquestionably true, especially given the attacks on the U.S. on 9/11. However, what has really happened has the dismantling of our defense that will be replaced primarily by Private Military Corporations that Bush can control. Don't believe it? Here are some facts:
* The Reserve Forces ARE DEPLETED. We have no reservists remaining to fight wars with. This number was exhausted in 2004. This is why the military started calling up soldiers (retired, civilians) in the Ready Reserve back in 2004.
* The National Guard in many states ARE DEPLETED. These soldiers who signed up for NATIONAL DEFENSE, have been abused and forced to serve MULTIPLE TOURS in Iraq, a war that has NOTHING TO DO WITH DEFENSE of this nation. This point was made painfully apparent in the Katrina response... the Louisiana N.G. could not handle the response because the majority of them were either over in Iraq, wounded disabled or dead.
* The improper equipping of our troops has caused an unnecessarily LARGE NUMBER OF CASUALTIES, further depleting the capabilities of our troops.
* The Military has been UNABLE TO FULFILL its recruiting needs since 2003.
* Money allocated to our soldiers has been redirected (ILLEGALLY) toward military contractors.
* The severing of the head of our military (firing of generals like General Shinsheki) in order to get a "YES-MAN" mentality going... the military chiefs will no longer question the desired actions of the president, even if it means disaster
* Defense programs like the missile shield, while properly funded, have lacked CRITICAL OVERSIGHT, and so they have wasted BILLIONS of taxpayer money for inadequate defense.
* Mismanagement, and I would say INTENTIONAL mismanagement, of Defense Programs such as FEMA. Astronomical (and unknown) amounts of money flowed into Homeland Security to secure our homeland. FEMA, being part of the new H.S. Department, has shown just how badly that money has been abused. Complete lack of management by CRONIES who are managing VAST AMOUNTS of taxpayer money. Many in the GOP and Administration have talked in the past of dismantling such programs... is it any surprise that they have succeeded while robbing the treasury? This was all laid bare in Katrina. What has been done in response to this?
* The lack of execution to secure our borders and ports, control illegal immigration, protect our Nuclear and Chemical Facilities and to aid in the protection of those cities with highest need is a clear demonstration that Bush wants our national defense to fail so people will no longer trust the ability of our military or defense departments to protect us. The mass cry-out will be to cut spending instead of the proper solution which is removal of the administration and proper oversight. Bush will be one step away from privatizing the military.

- Using Abramoff, he controlled own members of his party who might object to his unlawful behavior and side with the opposition against him to actually block the movement and direction of our government toward a dictatorship. Those who are involved have money and promises of power, be sure. They are tightly controlling the weaker members of their party through money and blackmail. This is now coming to light.

- The Patriot Act 2 will silence opposition completely and finally complete the removal of several fundamental civil rights. If this law is passed, this will be one of the keystones by which Bush becomes dictator.

- The current tracking of personal information by our government, domestic spying and warehousing of communications, financial transactions, purchasing patterns, a clear violation of the 4th Amendment, will be used against those who might appear to HAVE THOUGHTS about speaking out against the administration. Preemptive silencing will occur. Individuals will be made into examples (the M.O. of the Bush administration).

- The use of controllable e-Voting and voter disenfranchisement will ensure that those the Bush administration controls, REGARDLESS OF POLITICAL PARTY, will obtain the seats to the Congress in 2006, locking in the final steps required to coronate Bush as King.

- The expansion of presidential power has gone unchallenged. Until those he controls are no longer in a position to block serious challenges and impeachment, he will continue to expand his power. To further secure his position, just in case 2006 elections do not go as he plans, he has instilled a Chief Justice and an Associate Justice on the supreme court who will support his claims to expanded executive power.

- The administration continues to use fear as a way to control the public. They make slanderous, libel statements such as "Democrats want to provide therapy to the terrorists", "Democratic criticism is aiding and giving comfort (treason) to the enemy", and finally "Democrat talking points are terrorist messages". They make claims that Democrats in power will lead to a terrorist attack (which is actually a threat by the administration). The administration is the real terrorist organization: by definition, controlling the public through fear IS TERRORISM.

The question has been raised before, that Bush may try to stay president for a third term. Many have dismissed it due to the un-Constitutional aspects of it. But when has that stopped this administration? Is anyone in his own party going to stop him? If you think so, you missed a couple of points above. Bush has a tight leash on the Congress. He is power-crazy, and he's proved that. He is actively expanding the powers of the presidency and he is going unchallenged for doing so. Bush is on record at least 6 times as saying that the U.S. would be much better as a dictatorship (so long as he is the dictator). Does anyone really think Bush would be installing all this power into the executive branch and then let someone else, let alone a Democrat, take control? Hell no, he intends to play for keeps. And so far, he's way ahead of the public, who is still drowsy from 9/11 and won't be able to wake up until it is far too late.

on edit: adjusted for accuracy (for all the 2009 nitpickers :-P)

[William769]

1. Of course he's not!

He's not scheduled to leave till 2009. :)

ON EDIT: but if things go our way he may make an unscheduled departure in 2007.

[Just Me]

115. Bush is just a face on the machine, anyway. It's the neoconsters,...

,...that won't leave office. They'll certainly capture another "face", and give up geedub to maintain their chokehold on us, on the US.

The coup has already happened. The neoconsters don't care to commit criminals acts, in secret and in the open, all the while playing the system (the courts, the congress, the voting machines) in order to maintain and expand their power. I mean, fuck, they are 21C fascists, for crying out loud. They don't give a rat's crap about "democracy" or any silly, pollyanna stuff like that. They believe in their own superiority and they lust for power and profit. These are NOT "patriots" we are dealing with,...they are a self-absorbed authoritarian CULT.

[cssmall]

2. Uhm, he doesn't leave office until Jan of '09

But, I get the point. *sigh* Doom and gloom are scary, but remember, we can always argue the constitutionality of the separation clause in the Declaration of Independance.

[Missy M]

3. I think the people of this country would have something to...

say about that. Also, does he plan on repealing the 22nd Amendment?

[berni_mccoy]

32. Bush has violated several amendments already

What's stopping him from breaking another?

[Quakerfriend]

I totally agree. It was very telling when within 2 weeks after

the 'o4 election, Santorum started talking about a) doing away with challenges to elections and b) doing away with term limits on the presidency.

[Toucano]

9. Talking about it isn't doing it.

If they want to eliminate the 22 Amendment, they should get started.

Ratification of a Constitutional amendment takes time, and they could lose their majority in congress in Jan. 07.

If an amendment had been introduced and debated, I might be concerned. As it is, there simply isn't enough time.

*****The only other way I can see it happening is a major terrorist attack on U.S. soil that could lead to marshall law and a supreme court that would say he has the authority to suspend elections.

[ikojo]

19. Don't amendments have to be voted on in each state?

I thought that's why the ERA (equal rights amendment) has never passed because it failed in many states.

[berni_mccoy]

30. Bush has already violated several amendments...

What's stopping him from violating another?

[Toucano]

76. Although that's correct, it is very different.

The amendments Bush has voilated are interpretive. Lots of legal wrangling and "that depends on the meaning of 'is'..." type stuff.

The term limit amendment is cut and dry.

Furthermore, only a relatively few people have been victims of his violations up to now. If the Federal Election Commission, which is bi-partisan, allowed him to run, it would affect EVERYONE, including those in his party with aspirations of their own.

Barring a Court intervention to suspend the election, they would have to change the constitution. Anything else is a bizarre and grotesque fantasy.

[Toucano]

77. Yes, that is correct.

Edit to add:

But with Republican domination of many state legislatures (only 2/3 needed for ratification), that may be the easy part.

[springhill]

78. Uh.............

If he is dictator, does he have to follow the Constitution? I mean, after all, right now he is ignoring the parts he doesn't like.

[FreedomAngel82]

44. I remember reading

before the 2004 election that Bush tried to stop not having the elections but it never went anywhere. People wouldn't stand for it. Too many people are fed up with Bush now for it to work. Only way it could happen is if we have another really really bad attack and he can declare martial law (which is also illegal).

[cali]

4. Ho-Hum

Not this tripe again. Nothing you wrote convinces me that bush will remain as prez. Just silly to think that this is likely to happen.

[Bobbieo]

12. Bush elected to 3rd term

Who besides me remembers that FDR was elected to a 3rd term during WWII - How about WWIII?

[NYCGirl]

14. Back then, you could serve more than 2 terms. The term limit amendment

was passed in 1951.

[Occulus]

79. Only for those ELECTED to two terms.

It would be exactly like * to claim he wasn't elected the first time, but appointed.

I'm only being half-silly.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

112. No.

Full-bore silly. :silly:

[DoYouEverWonder]

24. You think people hate Bush now

Just wait until he tries to launch his next offensive. So far that idea is going over like a lead balloon with our 'allies'. Bush wants war but I don't think he's going to get what he wants this time.

[berni_mccoy]

31. The IAEA has already referred Iran to the UN Security Council

Iran has stopped voluntary nuclear inspections. There will be war.

[DoYouEverWonder]

36. They only stopped the snap inspections

and this morning they were singing a bit of a different tune, looking for a way to cooperate again. We still have a lot of dancing to do before the US gets the rest of the world to agree to another war. That doesn't mean that Bush or Israel won't pull some outrageous stunt in the meantime, but it will be his end if he does.

[RazzleDazzle]

103. People hate Bush, but who knows that? Not that many people

Not even all those who hate Bush know that there are many people who hate Bush. A few polls here and there, which aren't being very well covered in the corporate press...

[FreedomAngel82]

43. There were no term limits than on President's

That came after FDR.

[Orangepeel]

5. Nah.

I do believe that the administation want to secure power for the neocons, but bush won't stay in charge. It is too big a step and too clearly unconstitutional. Besides, too many other republicans want to be president to let him do it.

(if you're right, I won't be able to apologize, because I'll be dead or in prison somewhere)

[Kierkegaard]

13. I think you are correct.

Additionally, even if this guy is pushing the Neocon agenda in the right direction, he's such a bumbling moron that the 'team' wants him out ASAP. There's no way this guy stays one minute beyond his term.

[spooked911]

6. I worry you're right,and don't forget this

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11180519/site/newsweek/

"Exclusive: Can the President Order a Killing on U.S. Soil?"

[spooked911]

7. by the way, I think the Alito installation was part of this plan

[NNN0LHI]

8. The Republicans would never be going along with all these new found...

..."presidential powers" Bush has asked for if they were planning on Bush ever leaving office.

Don

[ikojo]

20. The Republicans are planning for permanent

Republican majority (and seem to be succeeding even though their poliices are not popular) but I doubt even they are foolish enough to try to keep Bushie in the White House past his appointed terms.

[RazzleDazzle]

105. Would Condi Rice in the White House be substantively different?

They do NOT intend to give up power. Period.

“A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude.” -Aldus Huxley, Brave New World

And I would add: especially if believe they're living in a democracy.

[Virginia Dare]

10. I could very easily see them declaring a National Emergency

coinciding with Martial Law and suspending elections indefinitely. No doubt in my mind that they would stoop that low if it came to it. I'm sure there was a plan in place for the last election, but diebold in Ohio did the trick for them.

[guruoo]

18. Creating a national emergency, and then

blaming it on 'leftist terrorist cells'
in the US would be the most likely senario.

Officials discuss how to delay Election Day
- Jul 12, 2004
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/11/election.day.delay/

[ekelly]

74. If you get a knock on your door

....and an official-type person says you have to go be tested for bird flu, run as fast as you can in the opposite direction!

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Joey Liberal]

15. I've said that all along

Bush will not leave office peacefully.

[Davis_X_Machina]

16. Bush couldn't be arsed....

....to stay on. Presidenting is hard work. Junta Boy'd just as soon go someplace quiet and kill his liver.

Jared doesn't own Subway -- he's just the spokesmodel.

The octopus that put Bush in there in the first place is the problem.

And they'll just pick a new spokesmodel.

This is bigger than Bush -- not that lots of things aren't bigger than Bush, mind you.

[springhill]

80. What in hell makes you think he is working?

Between his vactions, working out, early bedtime and riding his bike he doesn't really have time for that. He is just a front who goes out and says that he is told to say.

[Ivan Sputnik]

17. I think they'd rather install another neo-con

or neo-con puppet. Bush is too lazy to want to be president forever.

[berni_mccoy]

33. What better way to be lazy than to be dictator?

He can do nothing and have all the power? Why would he give that up?

[motocicleta]

21. Just judging a book by its cover, not trying to make a logical argument,

I've been telling my friends since 2003 that there is no way this administration would go quietly if they lost the election in 2004.

I've had to update that theory, and they all think I'm a loon, but frankly I'd rather they and we prepare for the worst because I can easily imagine a terrorist emergency requiring martial law. We haven't had a free and fair vote for at least the last three national elections. I guess at the moment I don't really believe we will see a real election, but if somehow the junta loses, I highly recommend everyone hold on to their hats: something crazy will happen. Now that the fascists have gotten such a taste of power, they will not let go timidly.

And the only thing standing in the way of fascism in this country right now is the American people. We still have the ultimate power to condone or deny the direction our government wants to go.

In the end, though, I suspect that between the electoral malfeasance and the sleepy apathy of the American public, no real critical moment will even occur. We are all so carefully managed to comfortably go along with the status quo, I see very little reason for hope. We at DU know what this admin has done for the past 5 years, and yet the public generally just seems to toddle along.

Even the low approval ratings don't give me that much hope. They're just not that low! I look at 40% and wonder where the hell the decimal point is? After all the junta has done, a large minority is asleep at the wheel, and even among the majority the opinion doesn't seem too solidly against the Repubs. They lied us into war! They are using the federal tax system to move wealth from the many, from the poor, to the few and the wealthy! Many amongst us here refuse to consider the possibility that 911 was LIHOP if not MIHOP, or that the elections were stolen! That's just the short story, too. The list of crimes goes on and on. Wake up, people! What the hell is it going to take? He still has a 40% approval rating? Good God, what has happened to America?

I have been buoyed by seeing Letterman attack O'Reilly, seeing Olbermann take on the corporate lying machines of the right, but it is not enough. Until we see some real responsibility on the part of the mainstream press, the public will remain asleep.

I'm depressed.
/end rant

[earth mom]

47. Good post-I agree with you and the OP.

Until people confront their denial and take action about not only Bush Co, but LIHOP/MIHOP and Congress' complacency-on BOTH sides of the fence-we are for sure headed for some very dark and scary times indeed-with Bush at the helm. :scared:

[motocicleta]

48. Thanks, TGR

In these ominous times, I don't generally need anything more than my wife and daughter to keep me motivated. But the online sympathy and companionship DU provides always helps.

Your screen name reminds me: we need to take back the language of morality from the fundies. The more we can advocate the moral worth of treating people well, and doing things like following the golden rule, the less we will find ourselves dividing and conquering, and the more we will find ourselves uniting and succeeding in the highest aspirations of humankind. Otherwise, who really cares which set of leaders we have?

Cheers

[earth mom]

71. Thank you motocicleta!

Another great post too! I like this part the best:

The more we can advocate the moral worth of treating people well, and doing things like following the golden rule, the less we will find ourselves dividing and conquering, and the more we will find ourselves uniting and succeeding in the highest aspirations of humankind.

Exactly! :applause:

[Innocent Smith]

22. He will be leaving in 2009

January.

[OneBlueSky]

23. this is precisely why there will NOT be another "terrorist" attack . . .

this year or next . . . BushCo has to hold onto their trump card for when it's REALLY needed -- in mid-2008 . . . then they can announce a national state of emergency and the suspension of the presidential election . . .

[benburch]

25. He is "Presidente For Life"

And America is over. Unless we find our spines and resist.

[BlueManDude]

26. i think he can't wait to get the f out n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

86. That's what I think, too. He's probably just hoping not to be impeached

indicted and imprisoned before he can get the f out. :evilgrin:

[charlyvi]

27. No. He doesn't want it.

I think Chimp is bored with it at this point. It's "hard work". Besides, he is becoming irrelevant--the problem isn't shrub, it's the machine that put him there. I keep thining back to what Rove said way before 2000, that he could make shrub president. As though it could only be done by a genius such as himself. That statement is very telling. It shows that shrub's presidential chops may be somewhat lacking: that the neocons and corporatists are using him as a convenient vessel for their global wet dreams. The fundies think he walks on water, but they're just the insurance needed to keep the elections close enough to steal. The lipstick on the pig so to speak. Shrub is the figurehead that stomps his feet and refuses to play unless he gets his way. Mars? Human/animal hybrids? Switchgrass? He's fast becoming a joke; the eccentric relative you trot out when company comes and apologize profusely for when he leaves the room. And he's too arrogant to realize it.

No, the problem is the machine. They will come up with someone else; but I think shrub wants out.

[Marr]

28. There is one thing that puzzles me about these guys.

They're very authoritarian, and they're always arguing that the Executive should be given more powers. From illegal wiretaps to torture to signing statements to endless (and ludicrous) claims of executive privilege, they demonstrate their belief that the Executive is above the other two branches of government.

But they're also the most partisan group of politicians I've ever seen. Most of these politicians- no matter how much theater they put on- they go golfing together and attend parties together. The Bush cabal, the DeLay cabal... the people who are in power now actually seem to despise the opposition. They must understand that our system of government (theoretically) allows for the opposition party to eventually hold power. You'd think they'd be hesitant to grant so many sweeping powers to the Executive, when the opposition may well hold the office soon.

[SmokingJacket]

50. Hmm, that does make the OP more plausible.

Why would they want to strengthen the executive if another party could get hold of it some day?

Ideal situation for them: Strong executive with one party rule.

[Marr]

66. I suppose so.

They've also tried to essentially dismantle the democratic process in this country, while leaving the facade in place. Things like DeLay's redistricting and such. These people grabbed power, then set about rigging the system so no one could take it away from them.

[guruoo]

56. The only way they can sustain their beliefs is to

keep themselves isolated from mainstream influences, i.e., reality.

[demgurl]

29. I do not doubt what you say but I believe what my husband says is true....

When I espouse such things he tells me the sad thing isn't that this could happen. The sad thing is that this administration has made it possible for a lot of us to believe it could happen. We can not discount anything with these people after what we have seen them do. I want my country back.

[dysfunctional press]

34. not gonna happen.

you seem to be forgetting about a little group called "We The People".

stop worrying.

[kwyjibo]

37. Thank you.

The majority of us may be able to ignore the details of this awful administration, but when something like that is attempted in this country, I have no doubt that the people will stop it.

[dysfunctional press]

38. nothing would unite dems and pukes faster-

in a way- i hope he DOES try it.

[berni_mccoy]

57. See my post #41 below

The people should be stopping it NOW.

[berni_mccoy]

41. Where are "We The People" NOW?

Bush should already have been impeached and should be impeached a number of times over...

Where are "We The People" when Bush violated civil liberties of Americans and locking them up in Gitmo?
Where are "We The People" when Bush violated international and U.S. law when Bush started torturing prisoners?
Where are "We The People" when it was discovered that Bush took us into a War based on lies?
Where are "We The People" when Bush failed the Gulf Coast?
Where are "We The People" when Bush robbed the Treasury?
Where are "We The People" when Bush is spying on Americans?

I'll tell you where "We The People" are: Powerless and Afraid.

Where will "We The People" when Bush tries to become Dictator? The same place they are today.

[dysfunctional press]

69. the sheeple repugs still think that the day is theirs-

but even they are, even if slowly, coming around...and there is a breaking point for the rest. such an outright unprecedented power grab could not be explained away under cover of the war on terror, and would NOT be accepted by anyone.
besides- why bother, when they can diebold jeb into their house on pennsylvania ave...?

[Marr]

65. I'm not convinced that much of this country would even notice, much less

care enough to act.

All they need is some bullshit talking point that gets repeated endlessly in their media echo chamber. You know, references to "war time" and FDR's four-term presidency. They could just assert over and over that it's "nothing new"... you know. So much of this country is so cynical, uninformed, and flat uncaring that it just might work.

[dysfunctional press]

70. no- it wouldn't be accepted by either side.

even morans have breaking points.

[MellowOne]

35. With all the people calling for impeachment

I can't see that happening.

[bostonbabs]

67. I'm with you ...

....they have already started to eat their young...the polls are very low and we don't have one investigation underway YET soooo the American people can see the lying scum for themselves....thier WORD means nothing they are without integrity and that should be on the lips of every American because this president is evil and the puppet masters with him.....their genius is in their audacity...under our good noses..real scum.

[TahitiNut]

39. Oh fer Krissakes! The Fecal Fuhrer is personally irrelevant!

He's a stooge, a puppet, a pathological narcissist, a front-man for a cabal of global corporatists obsessed with owned and operated fiefdoms in which the entitlements and privileges of 'ownership' are boundlessly expanded and imposed at the cost of human rights and civil liberties everywhere. Rights and liberties are for sale - only granted to those who can afford them. Human misery and suffering is but a profit opportunity for these pond scum. It makes absolutely no difference to them who occupies the Offal Orifice as long as the bidding of wealth and privilege is obeyed. This has been the steadfast direction of state and federal government in this country for 25 years, irrespective of the rate at which it has been accomplished.

[HomerRamone]

61. What he said.

[ThatsMyBarack]

40. Isn't it true that....

....a lot more Republicans are * haters these days?? One can at least hope....

[FreedomAngel82]

42. They'll find someone else to take his place

Look for John McCain or that Allen guy. They'll just continue everything Bush has done unless we stop them.

[eallen]

45. Let me offer you some insurance against that calamity.

Let's you and I each put $10,000 into the hands of a trusted third party, who buys a single 3 year CD with the funds. In February of 2009, if Bush remains president, you cash the CD, and at least have a bit more in funds to help you through the crisis. But if I, working behind the scenes, manage to prevent that calamity from occurring, I'm sure you will be happy for the premium I collect, when I cash the CD.

:hippie:

[eallen]

49. PS: There's another board where I oft enter the fray against a freeper....

In the style of freepers, this fellow brags on how clearly he sees things, and how murkily liberals see things. Whenever he veers near a specific prediction that I think unlikely, I give him the opportunity to put money behind his words.

So far, he has refused every such opportunity.

:evilgrin:

[berni_mccoy]

51. Read my post CAREFULLY. I'm not making a prediction...

I'm putting forward a theory about Bush's INTENTIONS and offering it up for discussion.

I don't claim to KNOW what's going to answer. I'm pointing out several INDICATORS that can easily lead one to a conclusion about Bush's INTENT.

[thinkingwoman]

46. Freeper logic

Freepers said the same thing about Clinton.

This doesn't help solve any of the real problems we're facing today.

If the Bushes want to retain power after Jan 09 they'll make sure Jeb is elected. Step one will be appointing Jeb VP when Cheney resigns for health reasons.

Watch, and stock up on popcorn.

:popcorn:

[berni_mccoy]

54. See my post #51 above.

[HeeBGBz]

52. A coup, who knew?

Its getting way creepy in Amerika.

[SmokingJacket]

53. Don't confuse Bush with the administration.

Yeah, he's the executive now, but they can very easily find someone else to fill his puppet role.

I think he'd rather NOT have another term, but retire to cushy personal life. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think BUsh personally is the engine behind all this... he's just the face.

[Cooley Hurd]

55. Could he argue that he wasn't actually "elected" in 2000?

He won the presidency after a legal ruling. By arguing he wasn't technically elected 2 times, could he legally run in 2008?:shrug:

[stevietheman]

72. No, because the Electoral College indeed elected Bush in 2000. n/t

n/t

[fishwax]

58. i heard RWers say the same thing about Clinton

i didn't believe it then, either.

[berni_mccoy]

60. And what single item in the list of ACTIONS in the OP did Clinton do?

NONE. The difference between RWers saying it about Clinton and us saying it about Bush is that Bush is actually TAKING STEPS to make it happen.

[fishwax]

64. I just don't think it will happen

Not that I don't ever think about the possibility ... and occasionally in the back of my mind I try to prepare for it or think through it, but only in a Y2K kind of way.

[donheld]

59. He'll leave and another puppet president will take over

There are no term limits on puppet masters.

[Initech]

62. It's scary the way this country is headed

And what would be downright terrifying is when Congress overturns the 25th amendment. And with RNC chimpanzees like Santorum, Cornyn, and Zell Miller in charge, it could happen. :scared:

[electron_blue]

63. I believe there isn't more uproar in the US bcs Americans are

confident that whatever idiot President is in charge at the moment, it won't last forever, and they can have a new crack at it in 4 yrs.

Take that away and I think there will be riots on the streets. It may take that to get Americans to stand up for their rights.

[smoogatz]

68. KBR gets $385 million to build DHS detention centers

From the Halliburton press release:

"The contract, which is effective immediately, provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to augment existing ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) Detention and Removal Operations (DRO) Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs. The contingency support contract provides for planning and, if required, initiation of specific engineering, construction and logistics support tasks to establish, operate and maintain one or more expansion facilities.

"The contract may also provide migrant detention support to other U.S. Government organizations in the event of an immigration emergency, as well as the development of a plan to react to a national emergency, such as a natural disaster. In the event of a natural disaster, the contractor could be tasked with providing housing for ICE personnel performing law enforcement functions in support of relief efforts."

I'm not much given to tinfoil hattery, but the phrase "or to support the rapid development of new programs" has a particularly ominous ring to it, IMO. WHAT new programs??

On edit, here's the link: http://www.halliburton.com/default/main/halliburton/eng/news/source_files/news.jsp?newsurl=/default/main/halliburton/eng/news/source_files/press_release/2006/kbrnws_012406.html

[TankLV]

73. All I can say is - we shall soon see.

That a lot of us are even having such a discussion is reason to worry.

[zann725]

75. And I thought Prez. Bartlett/"West Wing" would stay on,wheel-chair bound

for 3rd term...Sorkin returning to write/produce. (I have dreams, you know. I'm a Dem.)

Jimineee-gee-wizz...now you say it's gonna be Chimpy?! No contest at all. Then again, neither were Alda or Smit. So it's Chimpy or no one...you sure?

[onenote]

81. $500 Dollars

I'll donate $500 to DU if Chimpy doesn't peacefully leave office in 2009. Any of you so certain that he won't that you're willing to put your money where your mouth is? I've made this offer before, but no one ever seems to take me up on it.

onenote

[berni_mccoy]

85. As I responded to another gambler here, read my post #51 above.

Maybe you and he should get together...:P

[onenote]

88. so your backing off your original post a bit

In your original post (entitled declaratively, "Bush Has NO INTENTION of Leaving Office in 2009")you wrote "Everything that the Bush Administration is doing is pointing toward turning the U.S. into a DICTATORSHIP. And I believe it could very well happen in the next two years. At the end of your post you Later, with respect to those who have dismissed the suggestion that Bush will try to stay in office, you say such people "missed a couple of points" in your post. At the end of your post you say: "Does anyone really think Bush would be installing all this power into the executive branch and then let someone else, let alone a Democrat, take control? Hell no, he intends to play for keeps."

So, whether you call it a theory or a prediction, you've clearly stated what you believe -- which is that Bush intends to try to stay in office at all costs ("play for keeps") and that turning the country into a dicatorship by 2009 "could very well happen." My response was intended to see how strongly you (and others who have posted in agreement with the OP) really believe what you say. Strongly enough to bet on it? Apparently not.

onenote

[berni_mccoy]

89. What part of "theory" and "I believe" don't you understand?

Why does someone have to back up a theory with money? I put forward supporting evidence and hope that someone would provide counter-evidence, not juvenile digs as "put your money where your mouth is."

Name a theory you've put out there that you've put money on and won.

[onenote]

90. I'll put money on my belief that your belief is wrong -- will you?

That's how strongly I feel about my belief that there will be an orderly change of administration in 2009 and that "theories" that there won't be such a transition are misguided. How strongly do you feel otherwise? It seems you believe in your theory enough to criticize those who have a different view than you, but not enough to bet you're right and they're wrong.

onenote

[berni_mccoy]

94. I have put my money on this theory and many more that Bush is bad

I've donated to many Democratic causes:
DU, Local Democratic campaigns, National Democratic Campaigns, the DNC, the PDA, Sierra Club, Moveon, and many others.

I've also worked as a volunteer on the Kerry Campaign and Governor Lynch's campaigns, going door-to-door talking with people about the issues. We worked hard enough to turn NH Blue in the last election.

That's where I put my money instead of stupid personal bets, and that's how strongly I believe that theories like the one above (AND MANY OTHERS) are or could become reality.

[Stand and Fight]

101. They won't take you up on it...

They won't take you up on it because they cannot even handle being questioned as to where the real evidence is that Bush will not leave office. Nonetheless, you are not "in-the-know" because you don't agree with their perceptions.

[Stand and Fight]

82. I remain unconvinced by your post.

You make some pretty strong statements, and I would like you to back them up with references. Unfortunately, your post seems to be a lot of "doom and gloom" to me and is lacking in the area of FACTS.

You stated, "Probably the most egregious actions by this administration has been the dismantling of our national defense." Could you please provide links to back up what you wrote? Firstly, you state that the Reserves are depleted. I've not come across this information, and I would greatly appreciate if you could point me in the right direction. Secondly, you make the same assertion about the National Guard being depleted -- could you please provide a link to back up that claim?

"Using Abramoff, he controlled own members of his party..." How exactly did Bush do this and where have you found this most alarming revelation?

What are the exact issues that you have with the Patriot Act "2"? I'm not being facetious, but I would like to know why you've such a dark view of it, because we are most definitely in agreement that it was a bad move on the president's part.

"The expansion presidential power has gone unchallenged." I cannot agree with that. Many fine patriots, in the real sense of the word -- Republican and Democratic -- have been speaking out against the power grabs of this criminal administration. John Conyers comes to mind with Barbara Boxer, Kerry, Kennedy, Barr, Reid, Sheehan, Al Gore, etc...

I have to go to bed now, but I must say that your post smacks of the same thing that you accuse the Bush administration of -- fear mongering.

[berni_mccoy]

84. You are proof that even members here at DU don't know what's going on

First of all, I'm putting forward a theory (seep my post #51 above) for discussion. I welcome those who would provide counter points as to why the theory is wrong. That's what a discussion board is all about.

Secondly, I expect most people here to keep up with the developments of politics and the war. But to provide some information for you, here are some lists of articles from the Washington Post that support the points about depletion of the reserve and national guard forces:

Not enough troops to sustain past March 2004 at current levels (dipping into ready reserves):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A16689-2003Sep2¬Found=true

Reserves are being overused, consist of 43% of forces, stop-loss and multiple rotations:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A35283-2004Jul7?language=printer

Repeated deployments of reserve and gaurd units, increasing age limits in Gaurd and Reserves, Failure to recruit:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A48306-2005Mar18?language=printer

National Gaurd Forces being DEPLETED (Over 60% deployed AS OF JUNE 2004):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A18980-2004Jun5?language=printer

I sounds like you have not kept up on Abramoff and what's been happening in Congress. Several times, when republicans did not vote with their party, the republican chairs or heads of the house or senate would hold the vote open while DeLay and his cronies circled the room to remind those republicans why they need to vote in lockstep with the party until all republican votes were turned as desired. This is all corruption and Abramoff is a big part of that corruption. Bush has gotten nearly every legislatve initiative through that he wanted, and the money to keep republican lawmakers in line is what has kept them all in lockstep. Do you remember Voinovich protesting HEAVILY about Bolton, but CRYING when he had to let him through the committee? If that's not a sure sign of forcing him to vote their way, I don't know what else will convince you.

Patriot Act 2 has provisions that will make it a FELONY to protest national/federal events outside a designated "free speech zone". Have you ever been to a protest and seen where these zones are? Most of them aren't even within a mile of the event. There have been many discussions about this here on DU. I believe the reason why PA2 hasn't been put up for vote yet is that there are republicans trying to figure out how to make a compromise without losing political face or being forced to support it when they don't. Most democrats would shoot it down as it stands.

Speaking out against the expansion of presidential power is just that: talk. Until there are serious investigations supported fully by the republicans, NOTHING will come of it. All the people you list are Democrats besides Bob Barr who is not in a position to DO anything.

I resent your comments that I'm fear mongering. As I said before, I'm putting forward a theory and looking for counterpoints. I've provided you references to the military issues. Abramoff has pleaded guilty and will be soon taking down many republicans. This is the first step in eliminating the rubberstamp congress that Bush has had the pleasure of abusing. It's about to end, but I personally believe it will not be soon enough.

[Stand and Fight]

98. You can attack me personally if you want...

I will continue to ask questions. I will continue to point out fallacies in logic -- rather they come from you or a Right-Wing extremist. There are clear holes in the arguments that you are putting forth, and I have no problem with asking tough questions. In fact, the majority of the questions I asked you were because you need to better explain yourself. It has nothing to do with me not keeping up on what is happening in Congress. It has a lot to do with the fact that I do not agree with you. Personal attacks are rude and uncalled for -- especially when it's your message, not you personally, that I have the problem with.

If your expectations for people to keep up with things -- who are you to have such expectations of the people here. You are the one who DECIDED to post YOUR THOUGHTS on a DISCUSSION BOARD. Surely you did not think that everyone would agree with your estimation that the president would not leave the White House in 2009. That's one hell of a statement to make, and you had better be prepared for strong opposition if you do not present indisputable proof of such. You're dammed right to provide "proof" of your stand points, because it is those who agree with this president who need the convincing, and glossing over the facts with allusions to them serves to weaken your arguments.

I cannot reasonably consider idle speculation as proof of criminal activity. My immense dislike of the politics of this administration and its cronies will not blind me to cold hard reason. Reason dictates that just because Voinovich -- who has a record of crying on command -- teared up regarding the Bolton fiasco, does not mean he was forced to vote their way. It could just as well mean that Voinovich is a soft little chicken-shit who loves theatrics.

As for the Patriot Act 2 provisions -- I'm not in disagreement with you there. However, rather than attacking those who are seeking to have a discussion with you, maybe you should realize that there are plenty of lurkers on this board who may not be as informed as long-time members of DU. It goes back to you saying I have not kept up on Abramoff -- I very well have kept up on Abramoff, but that does not mean that the average visitor or new member has, and it does not mean that I will agree with your PERCEPTIONS of the Abramoff matter. I would also like to inform you I happen to be the information nexus with family, friends, and co-workers as to what is going on with that case, the Plame affair, and this wire-tapping matter.

Speaking out against the expansion of presidential power is more than just talk. It is speaking truth to power and holding the jerks accountable. Political party only comes into play in the halls of Congress. If you believe NOTHING will come of it, pray tell why you have decided to alert people to the real dangers that this administration poses? (Not withstanding the argument that Bush will not give up power in 2006.) If you believe that talk is so useless, why have you gone so far as to champion those who have spoken out? For if you believe talk will result in NOTHING happening, why do you continue to post here?

Furthermore, on your biggest point, there is no evidence -- prima facie or otherwise -- that would lead me to believe that Bush will not leave the White House in 2009. However, there is ample evidence that they are a den of thieves and crooks and should be prosecuted to the highest extent of the law. There is ample evidence that Bush and Cheney and other administration officials have committed impeachable offenses. There is ample evidence that 9/11 could have been prevented if Bush had paid attention to the PDB from August of 2001. There is ample evidence that they've little regard for the law and so the law must be brought to them.

I have every right to state that I feel you are only stirring up irrational fear, and I will continue to do so. Your resentment to me questioning your message be dammed. You say you're putting forth a theory and looking for counterpoints, and I am here to tell you that I am offering counterpoints and questions of clarification. I agree that the first step has been taken in getting rid of a rubberstamp Congress, but I do feel that it may be too little and too late.

[berni_mccoy]

110. I apologize

I appreciate your post and I never meant to start a flame war with you. I perceived your "fear mongering" term as a personal attack, but I see now that you were attacking the message, not me. I was being overly defensive.

[Stand and Fight]

111. Thank you, Berni. This says a lot about your character.

I'm sorry if I came on a bit strongly myself. You're one of the DUers that I have a lot of respect for, and I appreciate you posting yoru thoughts and concerns. They are most definitely justified -- even if I may not agree with all of them. This administration is very dangerous and for the sake of our democracy should be taken down as soon as possible. Here's an interesting article I wrote recently:

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=5536

As you can see -- I'm just as concerned about these dogs as you are...

[berni_mccoy]

87. More Evidence of Political Corruption

During a judiciary committee meeting today: Spectar sends out the wrong signal, confusion and when he says how the repubs vote, they change their votes accordingly:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x333336

[Stand and Fight]

99. Don't be a fool...

I know there's political corruption and never said that there wasn't any. Don't go down the road of pettiness. You're better than that.

[Liberty Belle]

83. Pack your bags while you can.

[Nye Bevan]

91. Deja vu

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1240899

[robbedvoter]

93. They were right. That WAS NOT an election. Just kabuki theater.

[robbedvoter]

92. been yelling about this since 2000. Never elected, never less than

a tin plate dictator.

[goddess40]

95. Bush is just a figure head - the right will just install someone else

Bush is just a peon who thinks he's president, they'll just install their next idiot in chief and continue to destroy America with the right wingers cheering them on.

[robbedvoter]

97. Which they may por may not bother to change.

The point is they'll keep the power. Forever (or until such time someone will be willing to fight for it)

[Angry Girl]

96. Don't forget the detainment camps!

Halliburton to construct HS "detention facilities" in US: $385M DHS award
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x328869

NYT: KBR -$385 million for building temporary US detention centers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2085433

[gasperc]

100. he doesn't have the stomach or balls

he's nuts and power mad but all he's looking to do is keep himself out of jail after his term ends. Whatever malfeance he's done he hopes to cover under the umbrella that he had to do it for the sake of national security. As long as that holds up, with at least 35-40% of the population or at least a sizable majority of the conservative whackjobs, he'll be able to keep his ass out of jail.
he's too lazy to be emperor for life or even to "appoint" his successor. he's dying to retire in lavish comfort. He had whims of abolishing social security and taxes for people making over $250k a year. He seems to think that these people simply by the virute of investing their money or opening a business and hiring someone are the true contributors to the economy and should be 100% shielded from paying any taxes. Their taxes are their "investments" in the community. and so it goes.

Although his actions are setting up a framework for conservatives to "have a lock" on elections. Part of Lee Atwater's dream before he came down with brain cancer. God works in mysterious ways.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

102. Do you think Bush is actually the one running things?

Please.

[ChickMagic]

104. I asked Martin Frost if there would be...

an orderly transfer of power when Bush got beat by Kerry. He looked
like I'd pulled a gun on him. He thought it was ridiculous that I
would even ask that. Then he avoided me. After that exchange, I got
pretty scared.

[WI_DEM]

106. we'll I'll bookmark it, but my guess is he will leave only to be

replaced by someone equally bad if democrats have another election stolen from them.

[RazzleDazzle]

107. Yeah, like Condi Rice -- the perfect candidate

(from their point of view):

* experienced
* female -- so Dems can't criticize her TOO much and she may draw off votes
* black -- ditto
* a trusted tool of the Bush Crime Family

Part of the GOP pushing Hillary has been to soften the electorate up for a woman candidate of THEIR choosing, should they choose to do that.

Or maybe she'll just be VP.

[Maddy McCall]

108. I remember when the radical right said this about Clinton 8 or 9 years ago

Bush'll be leaving office alright. In disgrace.

[Rainscents]

109. My guess is, Jeb will take office.

Neo cons don't want to give up power!

[BeHereNow]

113. Well fuckity-fuck Berni McCoy- Must you ALWAYS be right?

I agree with EVERYTHING you posted.
Grim, is it not?
BHN:cry:

[truth2power]

114. I disagree because

the worthless little fuck is tired of it all. It's hard work bein' preznit. And the Simian has never really worked in his life.

They'll put someone else in, though. And it'll amount to the same thing. :evilfrown: