2006: It's Like the 60's But Without the Counter-Culture

[Raydawg1234]

With the events going on in the world today, It's like the 60's and Vietnam all over again, maybe even worse. But the thing that is different, very different, is the absence of a youth movement. Back in the 60's the young people were unified by age, old people were square. Nowadays our young people have bought into the "me first" culture of party all the time, worry about the consequences none of the time. Where are the protests everyday on the streets? Does the death of rock and roll mean that our nation dies along with it?

You see, I should know, because I am 22, and most of the people I know my age, don't have a clue about whats going on out there. They could care less, being informed is seen as "uncool." But I fear that without the support of the younger generations on mass, we will be doomed, because after the baby-boomer's, that is all we have left.



(On an off-hand note, check out my band website at http://www.myspace.com/thesonsoftomorrow
good music,good people, progressive message.)

[MuseRider]

1. We were also unified

by the DRAFT! That was one hell of a good reason to get out and protest.

[Sparkly]

3. The draft

I was just going to say that too, MuseRider. This generation would rise up if there were a draft too, imho.

[FatDave]

56. Or take away their MTV

I used to live in Des Moines, Iowa. In the early 90's the local cable company quietly removed MTV from their lineup. The kids got out and protested in the streets. Over MTV. I thought it was fucking pathetic. Talk about priorities.

On edit: I am 36 years old. I am bitching about my own generation.

[Leopolds Ghost]

81. I ain't marchin'. That's the way you do it -- I want my MTV!

Bush, 2007 SOTU: "Get your money for nothing and your chicks for free!"

[Catchawave]

80. BINGO! The Draft.....

Yes, it has everything to do with anti-war apathy from the "kids". Also has alot to do with the Idiot Adminstration not having a CLUE how to run a war. Hey, it's only the poor/middle class kids, not paying much taxes anyhow :shrug:

Sidebar: we really need to address how NOT HAVING A DRAFT is hurting our troops more than any "Cindy". Think about that one :)

[katty]

85. yeah, listen up kids-they WILL draft you, you need to get out NOW

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. And civil rights.. and ERA. We have causes now to be lining up behind but

until we are under threat of some kind (like the draft.. or say those shiny new detention centers Halliburton will be building) we stay in our semi-comfy seats.

[Wordie]

19. Yep, people forget there were still anti-miscegenation &anti-birth control

laws (that's right, birth control!) as late as the 60's too. There was a lot more in the culture to be "counter" to.

[kevinbgoode]

38. God yes. . .the only thing that seems to be the same

is Republican rhetoric. . .it's the same old narrow-minded bigotry.

[Greyhound]

61. Spread by the same old, narrow-minded, bigoted people. n/t

[Inland]

6. Yep, my first thought too.

Bush isn't going to pull a Vietnam. He's going to ensure that the entire weight of his failures is borne by the few and the future, that is, the military that signed up thinking that they would have a government who gave a shit about them and/or had no other options economically, and the next generations paying off the debt.

The people left at home think they have nothing to protest, and the ones who do aren't at home.

[Raydawg1234]

7. Is that what it's going to take for young people to get up of their asses?

I for one would dodge it, I would never fight for an army with GWB as it's comander in chief.

[Junkdrawer]

9. To this day, Noam Chomsky supports a Draft...

His opinion is that citizens returning from a first-hand witness is the only thing that stops Imperial Wars.

Says he took a lot of flak for that opinion in the 60s...

http://www.stinkzone.com/cgi-bin/archives/000183.html

[MuseRider]

13. He may be right BUT

I refuse to sacrifice my kids under this regime. However it will/would be their decision but I know where they fall on that.

[Junkdrawer]

16. No one hates Imperial Wars more than Chomsky. Reading between...

the lines, I think Chomsky believes that citizens tend to turn a blind eye toward Imperial Wars as long as only poor kids fight them.

I think that's sad but true.

[MuseRider]

28. I agree and it is very sad.

I hate to admit that he is right but we have a perfect case in point going on right now. Nobody knows war as intimately as those who have fought in them.

[Greyhound]

64. Just as my parents had a selection of options laid out for me to chose

from to avoid the potential of the draft. One of those options did include the use of firearms to ensure my unsuitability for military duty.

[tabasco]

55. I agree with him. Strict universal service. Common in Europe.

Instituted during peacetime.

If all families knew their kids had to serve, they would think twice about voting for republicans who want nothing but war for corporate profits. It would cause young people to vote in higher numbers and be more concerned about politics.

My girlfriend is German and comes from a wealthy family. Both of her brothers had to do two years in the service. One went army, the other went navy, but they both had to serve. I want something similar here in the States. I believe universal service would deter war and build true patriotism by bringing young people from different parts of the country together in a melting pot. I remember basic training. Kids from Idaho and kids from Massachusetts working and living together and learning that stereotypes are wrong.

But nobody wants to serve under a maniac that was installed by the USSC and serves only the corporations.



edit typo

[Greyhound]

65. This will not be allowed here, ever. the ruling class does not

provide the fodder.

[katty]

86. never, they pay the fodder (poorly) to die

[tabasco]

87. You're probably right.

The corporate elite have a stranglehold on our Nation.

The last thing they want to do is serve in the military.

That is beneath them. So they think.

But one day we will retake the country and force the rich to do their share and pay their share. They want to reap the benefits of capitalism but share none of the burdens.

[Greyhound]

89. Definitely right on the first part, wishing for the second.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. We've all turned on, tuned in, and dropped out.. to whatever 'reality'

show is on air at the moment. x(

[annabanana]

4. aww honey...It would be JUST like the 60's

If your birthday determined whether or not you were going to be shipped off to the rice paddies to die..
It had a remarkable galvanizing effect on us kids. Everyone would hold their breath for the drawing.. it was terrifying.
The kids raised a ruckus before anyone else, because, like now, most people weren't paying attention until THEIR kid's number came up.

Listen to the music..It can still get the blood going..

(and for a bunch of old folks... us boomers are still around in noisy (and richer) numbers)

[MadMaddie]

14. Hey Annabanana

I think there would be one slight difference in who they would be drafting...I think they would have to draft women along side the men ...

I am 40 and I hope you boomers show us how it is done...

If my history is correct wasn't it the Kent state National Guard Shootings that put the protest and anti-war movement in high gear. I know there were other things that pushed it along but this was the event....

I am almost afraid of what the event is going to be in 2006...

[Raydawg1234]

15. and no college deferments, that would really set a fire under the

yuppie's asses, sending the spoiled would be college-kids to war.

[MadMaddie]

22. Raydawg1234

I started this thread earlier today...It discusses the President's children and Congresses children serving alongside everyone else if there is a decision to go to war.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2441724&mesg_id=2441724

[annabanana]

17. howdie. . . One BIG difference..

The media wasn't completely compromised back then. We SAW what was going on. Our 4th Estate was just as horrified as the populace ,, and they DID THEIR JOB

[emulatorloo]

20. press and TV news sooo much better. CBS news had amazing stuff

[Armstead]

21. Good point -- We SAW the damn war on TV.... Iraq doesn;t exist.

We actually soldiers shooting and being shot at on a daily basis during Vietnam.

Today all that's swept under the carpet by the Media/Government complex. All we see are nice soldiers painting classrooms.

[Canuckistanian]

29. And we saw the body bags AND the wounded in the field

And I remember the "score-keeping", all the VC kills for the day, for the month, etc.

[Raydawg1234]

24. But, This is a new age, and it is clear to me that Internet sites such as

DU are the wave of the future. We have to use the internet as a new tool.

[MadMaddie]

26. You are right the media has failed miserably....

The only way that I see that the media can return to some sort of true reporting is regulation...

These companies have to be broken up to break up the monopolies....

By breaking them up we can have more competition and a variety of coverage....

I wish we had an American version of the BBC..they don't withold their coverage...they show war for what it is...a brutal, deadly action and people die. The US media suger coats the war and this administrations lies as if it is childs play!!

[Beam Me Up]

51. Yes, Walter Cronkite crying on air because of the beatings the protesters

received from the police in Chicago, 1968, for example. All in all, the media demonized and magenalized "hippies" and "protesters" but at least you knew they existed. How many people know that more people demonstrated against the war in Iraq prior to its start than protested even at the height of the anti-war days of the 60s? How many people have a CLUE what is going on in this country right now? No one is given information that shows them how the policies of the Bush administration directly affects them. Even here at DU, so many just say they are "incompetent." Reckless regard for law and order, perhaps, but they've gotten EVERYTHING they ever wanted--how can that be considered 'incompetent'?

[Raydawg1234]

71. It seems to me that nowadays,the media doesn't view protests as newsworthy

[Beam Me Up]

94. Yes. And of course, it is always up to corporations and their media

to tell us about ourselves and tell us what is newsworthy about us and what isn't. Right? /sarcasm/

We are in the middle of a revolution right this moment that will have lasting historical consequences as profound as the war of Independence from Great Britan. The United States of America is, for all practical purposes, DEAD HISTORY. Of course most people within it don't know it yet but that, too, will pass. Much of what is unfolding around us now are the power grabs of an out of control and terrified elite whose intelligence sources about what is going to happen next may or may not be superior to our own. My god, look at what is happening to the advertising industry, as only one example. Advertising and corporate owned media have become welded hand-in-glove--but what happens as more and more people stop watching corporate news media? What constitutes "newsworthy" now is mostly determined by political marketing strategy. People wonder why Bush's SOTU speech seemed disjoined and incoherent. Well here is why: IT WAS SIMPLY CODED PHRASES THAT MARKETING ANALYSIS HAVE MEASURED AS ILLICITING DESIRED EMOTIONAL RESPONSES FROM THE TARGET AUDIENCE STRUNG TOGETHER TO ATTRACT AND HOLD ATTENTION. His speech was nothing more nor less. It will have little to NOTHING what so ever to do with the actuality of governmental POLICY.

However disconcerting that may be, even more disconcerting for the power players is the realization that the flow of information and "intelligence" has ceased to be top-down (as it has been for most of civilized history). Although the strangle-hold of corporate media on social attention remains undeniably strong, fact of the matter is, the consumerist reality structure is balkanizing, fragmenting in to swarms that both commercial and political marketers want very much to identify, understand and control.

But there is also something else going on. For one thing, more and more people are becoming their own entertainment--and entertainment to one another. You and I who shall likely never meet can engage one another in thoughtful conversation about matters that feel compelling to us, for the time being at least completely outside top-down corporate control. Or, we can go browse the video clips at google.com--or go share our opinion of a book at Amazon.com. The point being, we now reflect ourselves back to one another in a way that is, at least to some extent, outside the hegemony of the old structures of power. Technology itself, which, on one hand is enabling the routine monitoring of hundreds of millions of people in real time, simultaneously gives these same people a more egalitarian and empowering appreciation of themselves and one another.

I don't want to go too far here because there are many things in play. For example, IF globalization is coming to an end as a result of a real (as apposed to synthetic) energy crisis, how is this going to play in a population that has been breast fed on the infinite and unlimited possibilities of the abundant-energy market place?

One thing is clear: The Republican party is now at heart a fascist party and for them the growing crisis is seen as an excellent opportunity to reshape human society both here and abroad in a way that will allow it to rule without challenge from now into perpetuity; by whatever slight of hand or slit of throat necessary. And yet one can smell the scent of desperation here: How desperate they are to convince us we can do NOTHING to stop them! How desperate they are to keep us engaged in the same old Dog and Poney show of political structures and institutions that are becoming increasingly obsolete?

It is an interesting time to be alive, my young friend. The old world is now little more than a mass hallucination that could burst in a heart beat.

Are you ready?

[llmart]

84. Right on......

even the conservatives tried every possible way to get out of going to Nam.

P.S.

Heh, heh, the Guess Who can still get this old broad up on her feet and dancing!

[Taxloss]

8. Democratic president, economic boom, cultural surge,

massive advancement of social justice and civil rights ... I don't see the similarities.

More like the early 1970s - criminal Republican president, failing war, energy crises, economic stagnation ...

[revree]

10. That's because younger people don't know...

what it's like to be without...without freedoms, without lavish materialism...If that stuff got taken away, they would indeed wake up. Let's hope there are more young people out there like you, who are already awake. Otherwise I fear the only thing that would wake and shake them is to get their asses drafted in a war they don't even know the origin of...

[MuseRider]

11. I checked out your website.

Pretty cool.

Here is one of my sons, his latin jazz band. http://www.myspace.com/makuza

He is 20, not terribly active but he did caucus with me for Kucinich. He is way too busy right at the moment but he is very concerned, posts here occasionally but reads more often and is very aware and talks the talk to a lot of people. My oldest son does as well so I would not say that all is lost, they both have friends who are really up on this stuff. Considering how busy school keeps a lot of you it would be difficult to get as worked up without something like the draft, how many actually have the time to dig for the truth? That is a big part of the problem, it takes time to find out what is really happening. We had the media at least questioning. I am making excuses for you all, not that I totally buy it all but hey, two of you are my sons.

Keep talking, some of them will listen and then you will have done a good job. It is the only thing right now you can probably do every day and it will eventually make a huge difference.

In the meantime, us old freaks will keep on keeping on as they used to say.

[Raydawg1234]

18. Thanks.

Likewise on your son's site, good grooves.

[yorkiemommie1]

12. the reality show of our time was the draft lottery

that unified us, compelled us to pay attention to what was going on, the rallies and teach-in on most college campuses, the music that was played on the NOT self-censoring, murdoch owned hateradio outlets,... these were all factors.

growing up on other campuses, however, were the cheneys, and *'s , honing their skills so as to wreak havoc in the 21st century.

[Dr Fate]

23. I know- and no new Munsters episodes either. n/t

n/t

[ShortnFiery]

27. I Copy That ...

And my favorite Munster "Grandpa" - Mr. Al Lewis - recently passed away. :(

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5189733&ft=1&f=1001

[Armstead]

25. Kids today don.t see anything better -- No alternatives offered to them

The baby Boom Generation had a different context, besides the draft. We grew up assuming that there was a normal life and solid careers waiting for us if we wanted them.

Many rejected that -- or took a temporary hiatus -- but we grew up with a sense of economic security as the backdrop.

Kids for the last 30 years have grown up against a backdrop of insecurity about their future. Job security and employer-employee relations became extinct. You can get fired no matter how good a job you do, or how well your company is doing.

So growing up against a backdrop of constant fear about your future makes one take the path of least resistance. Go along to get along. Don;t try to envision anything better because there is nothing better.

Can'

[Mythsaje]

30. I think the issue is more that there are several counter-cultures...

None of which communicate with one another worth a damn.

[Initech]

31. Today's youth is lost under hundreds of thousands of advertisements

I should know as I'm still in college and I see ads whereever I walk. It's disgusting. That may be the reason why there's no youth movement - too many commercials!

[Raydawg1234]

33. good point. we're in the marketing age, no real culture, just marketing.

[Initech]

57. Ever notice how most of the popular bands right now...

Dont even have very political lyrics?

Every time I listen to musicians like Pink Floyd, Frank Zappa, or Creedence Clearwater Revival, it makes me wonder where the fuck we went wrong. It's all advertising. I pretty much go out of my way to make sure I never even see a commercial on TV or radio.

[Raydawg1234]

59. my band's got some political lyrics, website at:

www.myspace.com/thesonsoftomorrow

[jane_pippin]

41. And everything is personalized, meaning that it's not just advertising but

I think it's more and more becoming advertising geared to specific individuals or niches which makes it difficult to feel like people are connected to something even though the ads try to tell you that you are. (I'm thinking of a Netfix recommends or iTunes suggests...sort of things, but I think we'll see it get more individual as time goes on.) And you make a great point too--the bombardment of it. That'll get worse too thanks to technology like Tivo and handheld stuff that lets you eliminate ads. They'll find ways to put them directly into content or on every available surface, which is already happening.

I literally woke up 4 minutes ago so I know that's not really a clear thought, but this whole topic interests me so save me a spot here. (I'll make more sense of it once I get some coffee in me. ) :D

[merbex]

32. I think your age group is just too busy:work, school,starting or working

on a real adult relationship takes alot of time

I spend a significant amount of time checking out news and I KNOW I can only do that because my kids have reached an age were they don't require my constant supervision or my taxiing abilities otherwise if I caught c-span once in a while I'd consider myself lucky just5-6 years ago.

I used to watch CNN while I made dinner in the kitchen and slowly as the kids have grown up I can once again read the newspaper or check out the internet in the morning

Time is once again becoming mine were once it primarily focused on kids

[eridani]

34. Don't forget that kids these days have it far harder economically.

In the 60s higher education was far cheaper, and we graduated with far less debt into an economy that had more well-paying jobs. The 50s may have been culturally stultifying in many ways, but they were the best times the US has ever had in terms of rising real incomes spread evenly through the entire income spectrum. That alone gave young rebels a secure base to protest from.

[Hekate]

35. 80-year-olds think it's more like 1932, especially if they lived in Europe

I know what you're saying though, and I've wondered about it myself because I started college in the mid-60s and got my political initiation then by working on the Gene McCarthy campaign.

I agree with those who point out the economic situation and the absence of a draft -- I've thought about that too.

Students were economically better off because college tuitions and fees were low relative to whatever pathetic income you could garner -- I worked my way through college as a sales clerk and only needed one room mate for my tiny apartment. Between the ages of 10 and 19 or 20 I saved $1,000 as a babysitter, pineapple canner, stuff like that. My parents donated another $1,000 from money left over from the sale of their house when we moved to California. That was it. Granted, I knew how to live exquisitely cheaply, but even so. Nowadays every time the state legislature raises fees for community colleges, the enrollment in my husband's Computer Information Systems program takes another dip, and public university education costs are beyond belief. Coming from the family I did, I wouldn't be able to do it now.

The draft itself gave young people every incentive to pay attention to larger issues. College deferments only went so far in protecting young men from an unjust and ill-advised war. Blue collar kids and those of color were over-represented in the Army, but they got enough company from college boys to make this an issue for everyone under 30. The older brother of one of my friends died in Vietnam, drafted after getting his Master's degree.

Very simplistically put, I know, but these were big influences.

Hekate

[Greyhound]

67. Zactly...

Back then, day to day survival was not really a concern. My parents ran a crah pad on the east-side of Denver and most, if not all of their friends/guests would literally go to
Ccity Park and panhandle for an hour or two to get the $ for what they needed. Occasionally someone would get a McJob for awhile to contribute, but the cost-of-living-to-wages ratio was not so far apart.
BTW love your screen name.

[Yollam]

36. Well, I believe that the young of today still have souls...

...keep trying to reach them.

I'm an old fart of 36, and I don't even own a old nintendo NES, so I don't think they'll listen to the likes of me...

[DetroitProle]

37. Thought I might chime in...

I'm a longtime lurker, never posted before. I'm 20 years old.
I have to say, most of my friends are politically aware on some level, and I don't know a single Bush supporter(anymore...they've all recanted on their former evil ways), and I know a lot of people. Granted, though, this is Detroit, not...I don't know, Jerkberg, Alabama.
What helps? Education! I go to Wayne State University, in the heart of Detroit. I know educated people with conservative leanings...but none of them support tom-foolery like "intelligent design" and "faith based initiatives". Why? Because no intelligent person would fall for that crap.
Things to look forward to:
More kids than ever are going to college. A good education broadens a lot of horizons.
Attitude towards the gay community. This is a big one, even with young conservatives. Nowdays, folks can come out and its socially acceptable, thank God. Every young person I know nowadays has gay friends and would treat them no differently- and want them to have nothing less- than straight folks. Conservatives can't stem the tide of history and the progress of society- no matter how much they legislate, they won't be able to stop the fact that homosexuality is no longer a supersititious taboo. This isn't the 50's, and none of us grew up in the 50's.

I know some apolitical folks but they hate Bush anyway, since its clear to even the most unaware peon that at the very least he's: an idiot; a warmonger; generally doesn't give a shit.

Nobody's taking to the street because nobody's getting drafted(yet), and everybody has to work 2 jobs to survive in this piss-poor economy. I certainly despise the Republican myth that the protesters of the 60's were spoiled rich kids, but I'm willing to believe the kids at Columbia in 68' had more free time and were better off than us poor bastards who have to live out our younger years in Bush's America.
Don't be fooled though, everyone is mightily pissed and certainly won't be voting Republican in November, if ever.

[Hekate]

39. Thanks for the input. Welcome to DU!

Good luck with everything. We're glad to have you aboard.

Hekate

[corkhead]

48. Welcome to DU

I look forward to seeing more of your thoughtful posts. I lived in Ferndale when I was your age and spent a lot of time downtown in the Cass St. area. It was shortly after Raygun was elected and I was one of the earliest to have to register for the draft when that started back up.

anyhoo,

:toast:

[newyawker99]

82. Hi DetroitProle!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Liberal In Texas]

40. Two things that might change that. 1) already mentioned, the draft.

2)Attempted gov't and corporate control of the internet.

If the free-wheeling subculture of the net taken away from a generation that doesn't know what it's like not to have this nearly free and cheap resource, we're going to see a disgruntled and pissed off younger generation much like those of the '60s.

And recently there has been rumblings of this control being proposed. The start will be broadband only for those who can afford it, everybody else dial-up. Then E-mail will cost $ every time you use it followed by gov't monitoring (spying) on e-mail and control of websites deemed "dangerous" or "objectionable".

[jane_pippin]

42. Maybe I'm living in a bubble but I see things a little differently--

I'm not all that older than you, but maybe it's enough to be out of touch with it. I've also been hanging out with the "weirdos" most of my life, so maybe it means I've been living in a blissful bubble full of creative, smart, informed people who want to work for change--I don't claim to really know what it's like to just be a regular person who would think it's "uncool" to know things. I'd run from these squares like they had the plague back to my own happy reality.

But let's put that aside for the moment.

I think you make a great point that without young people paying attention, we're pretty well screwed in some respects. I'd like to challenge you on that death of rock and roll line though. It isn't dead. You just have to find it. Before the Presidential election I put together 3 shows for election night and we had all three clubs packed with young people who, in between songs, would crowd around a tv at the bar and watch the returns. And, there are tons of amazing bands out there. Just this upcoming weekend in little old boring Milwaukee there are two or three shows to choose from with great local and national bands who will rock our very socks right off with righteous anger. Hunt around on MySpace some more--a lot of them have pages up there now.

I don't know--maybe EOO's point about advertising really did hit the nail on the head. Maybe people don't believe there is a counter-culture because it's not right there on the TV telling them it exists. Which is funny because that would totally defeat the purpose of it being a counter-culture. But I think there is one. At least, I know there is one in my town. And maybe they have bought into this me first, screw you thing that's been trickling down since the 80's. Maybe they think they're supposed to be automatons. Maybe everyone is just exhausted and afraid. Maybe they need people like you showing them it doesn't have to be that way.

There is some hope--on NPR recently there was a story about how a lot of people in their 20's and 30's have totally different priorities than their parents and it's making things difficult for them at work. It was saying that while some baby boomers have been prioritizing money and status in the work world, this new generation would rather have jobs that challenge them creatively and intellectually over a job with lots of money and a nice title. They're having a hard time fitting in to a work culture that's been shaped by values they don't hold. I found that encouraging. (And it made me feel like I wasn't alone and nuts in thinking that, so bonus.)

Finally, I know lots of people like to say Draft 'Em! This I cannot understand. Often, though not always, it's said within seconds of the person talking about how awful the draft was, and lamenting that kids today aren't paying attention like they were, etc etc etc. It really bothers me because it what it says to me is that people are willing to eat their young in order to teach them a lesson. You know, thanks mom and dad, but no thanks. I'd rather you not be so quick to throw me to the wolves. Especially after a lifetime of hearing about how hard it was to go through a draft. It really makes me think poorly of baby boomers--and I could rant about that for hours, but I don't really get into that on this board because I am still hesitant to speak against "them what sprung me" and I don't think it would be entirely fair to direct it toward people here either. So I won't, but I do find the concept of drafting their kids to teach them a lesson--well, distasteful to say the least.

Ok. Obviously I've been rambling for a while (and still, no coffee--egad!) so I'll stop for now. But not without begging you to keep working for change, keep talking with your friends, keep trying to get other people to pay attention. And, I bet there was a fair amount of "party all the time, worry about the consequences later" going on back in the day too, so let's not get so discouraged that we give up on ourselves.

[progressoid]

43. That counter-culture is today's corporate entertainment

Let's see...who played at the half-time of the SuperBowl? Oh yeah, The Rolling Stones.

How about last year? Hmmm, that would be (Sir) Paul McCartney.

[blue in ohio]

44. You say you want a revolution?

I am also in my 20's and heartbroken to see the level of apathy amongst my peers.
What this generation does not understand is that we are paying for the imperialistic war that
the republican regime has gotten us into. It is the blood of people that we know and went to
school with that is paving the way for Haliburton etc to profit. It is our social security that
is being pissed away. The supreme court is being loaded with right wing ideologues-- It is our
future that they will change.
It is also our generation that must change this!!

WE NEED MUSIC!
We need the type of music that will inspire the youth of today to look at the world around them and
all of the atrocities.
WHERE IS TODAY'S BOB DYLAN???

[raccoon]

45. That's what I've been wondering, too. But if a song like

"Masters of War" came out today, would it be played on the Corporate radio?

[toymachines]

47. Better question:

Would anyone listen to the meaning of the song if it even got played? I think not. I am 20, I see the selfish apathy which is prominent in our generation, and the rest of the country. All I can do is inform as many of them as possible...

[YOY]

49. Who needs Bob Dylan when you have "Clear Channel Communucations"

and Viacom telling you what to listen to: Brittany and 50 Cent... :puke:

I'm 31 and I asked a younger cousin if it was just me getting old or does the music suck...His Answer: "Yeah it sucks ass."

[Raydawg1234]

70. kinda interesting, my band performed in a Clear Channel sponsered

battle of the bands competition, and it was rigged, ironic huh?

[YOY]

72. I heard a radio commercial for Clear Channel basically saying

"Why should you pay for radio? It's supposed to be free!" It would be free if the market allowed for real radio stations to play real music and not just what they want you to hear!

Let me guess! The had a battle of the bands was meant for for local bands with the posibility of a record contract as a prize and the winner was neither a local band nor the best there?

[Raydawg1234]

73. no record contract, just a gig at the local casino, and money.

It was Clear Chanel radio based out of Hartford Conn., so they picked all the bands from the Hartford area to move on, even if they sucked. So they basically picked bands from their area with the same type of image.

[YOY]

75. Saw the website

Put some lyrics up and try and go for a real webpage when you have time. I'd like to see the lyrics.

[tlsmith1963]

52. Create It Youselves

That is what the punk rockers did. No one cared whether they could even play an instrument or sing in those days. The point was to say what you felt. So if you want a Bob Dylan, come up with those kinds of lyrics yourself. The "corporate" media is obviously not going to do this for you. They are Clear Channel & other companies like them. They only care about what makes a ton of money. So it's up to anyone who really cares.

Tammy

[Raydawg1234]

60. Check out my band's website,

www.myspace.com/thesonsoftomorrow

[Raydawg1234]

58. Check out my band's website:

www.myspace.com/thesonsoftomorrow

[EVDebs]

46. Nixon era plans for Saudi Arabia dusted off and used in Iraq......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2088738&mesg_id=2090794

The real plans aren't being used, see www.oilendgame.com , so the US public will have to demand the changes and point the way with a new Congress who will espouse these new realities to the old geezers like Cheney and his puppet.

[tlsmith1963]

50. It's Very Sad

Younger Boomers like me even had punk rock, which used to be a lot more political & anti-establishment until bands like blink-182 took over. Read some of the books about the original punk rock scene. It may have seemed like the complete opposite of the hippie scene in terms of attitude, but you cannot say that the punks didn't care, despite all their protestations to the contrary. Where is the scene today that could compare to the hippie scene or punk rock? The punks had to deal with "corporate" radio too, but they got past it. I am not saying that there aren't young people who care, but too many of the ones I see are very materialistic & accept whatever crap is on the radio. This is not the time for this kind of behavior. The future of this country is at stake, & it is their future, too.

Tammy

[mdmc]

53. read this OP to understand the youth of today

peace :kick:

[Cleita]

54. Yeah, it was uncool to be over thirty and anyone who was

couldn't be trusted. Now, today it seems the young people expect us veterans of the sixties to be leading the dissent again.

They really need to get off their collective asses and start a movement of their own. One of the differences of the sixties is that then college was more widely available to the underclasses. Many states colleges and universities were tuition free to residents.

Today, either weighted under student loans or from affluent families, the college kids of today are a different demography than the college students of the sixties. In the sixties the college students, who were in the majority, had backgrounds that were working class.

Also, the veterans of two wars were attending college on the G. I. bill and brought a fiery pacifist viewpoint to the movement.

[Greyhound]

62. There is no culture, counter or otherwise anymore. Just a homogenized

uniform beige that has spread over the land and into our hearts. The oft-vaunted "youth vote" that has failed to materialize in election after election is as responsible as any other factor for the unbelievable clusterphuk that has been made of our nation.
I'm not even sure that re-instituting the draft would get them into action. They simply don't care.

[jane_pippin]

68. Telling us over and over again how little we care--well there comes a

point where it *might* become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I'm sorry but I'm tired of hearing how apathetic my friends and I are when we worked our asses off this past election. I'm tired of hearing of how we're soft and weak and oughta be drafted so we can learn us a lesson. I'm tired of being told I don't care when I do, and everyone I know does. I'm tired of working 12 hours a day to get by with no benefits at all from either job, and then reading things like "young people don't care--light a fire under them--draft them." Or that we have no culture to speak of other than what's found in Gap commercials--it isn't true! Every single person I know is involved in creating something--music, art, film, words, and all of them are involved politically by paying attention, reading, voting, and (those of us who don't work 2 or 3 jobs) volunteering in the community.

But keep telling us how we don't care and how we don't follow through. See how far that gets everyone. "Hey, you, young people, you don't give a shit and you have no ambition or creativity and you're getting dumber by the day with your American Idol crapola...Pay attention or we're drafting your ass!" Then lament the fact that young people might not want to get into politics. Oooookay.

I'm sorry to get off on a rant, but I'm dead tired of this attitude. You keep telling people they're something and sooner or later they just might believe it. If you want this party to go anywhere, we're going to have to find a way to work together at it.

Ok. Rant off. Peace.

[Greyhound]

69. I am glad to hear that you are not one of them, however you are/were

part of the consistent 17% of voters under 25 that turn out to vote. Election after election, cycle after cycle, less that 1/5 even bother to show up. I'm not trying to tell you anything, it simply is what it is.
BTW I was like you when I was in that demographic. I wanted the Democratic Party to make a stand then and they didn't. I want the Democratic Party to take stand now and they're not going to now either. We need a real alternative.

[jane_pippin]

74. I'm just saying that telling kids they're lame isn't going to help

build this party or any other. I know the youth vote is generally dismal and has been for quite some time. Lamenting that they have no counter-culture (which, by the way, isn't true anyway but I guess that's what makes it 'counter-culture'), and bemoaning how apathetic they are isn't going to make it better. It's almost enough to make me want to walk away from all of it. I'd vote, and that's it.

I want the Democratic Party to take a stand, sure. But I'd like to know that the people who came before me were also standing with me, encouraging me to take the torch they lit, instead of acting like a pack of sad sacks in a John Mellencamp song.

I don't know. It's just a really sore point with me and I don't mean to take it out on you, but I just feel like we're not getting heard and at the same time we're getting blamed for failing to care enough too, and it really bugs me.

I'm going back to my subbacultcha to chill out for a while now. :D

Peace.

[Greyhound]

77. I know exactly what you're feeling, it is as it ever was. What upsets me

the most is that it is you that will bear the worst consequences for what is being done, and the majority of your contemporaries will not look at it, until it is too late.

Enjoy, and don't take it too seriously. The main thing is to enjoy the time you have, as much as you can.
BTW the quote in the original post was a part of a fascinating interview with him before his death in 2003 (http://shadow.mediafilter.org/shadow/S43/S43grand.html) about what was going on during The Great Depression, not Vietnam, so you see, nothing has really changed.

Just noticed that I included a piece from another thread in this reply, sorry. You might find it relevant, however. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2444073

[jane_pippin]

78. Thank you for the links...

I just have time to glance at them now but they look interesting and I'll read them when I get back from work later tonight.

You're right--it is so much the same as it ever was and I do find some comfort in that, and that you know that too, strange as that may sound. In a way it's good to know others have been there.

I'm reading Zinn's People's History now, and there too--the more things changed, the more they stayed the same--more or less. But still, there are baby steps toward change evident. (Next on my list is Naming Names, a book about blacklisting in the 50's, so that should be, uh, entertaining.)

I don't mean to give the impression that I'm stark raving mad every hour of every day, but once in a while all of this just gets me to a point where I have to let it out or I'll actually become stark raving mad. Just don't write us off yet. That's all I ask.

And, thanks for the conversation--I appreciate it.

[Telly Savalas]

91. That trend is changing

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1117/p08s03-comv.html

[coalition_unwilling]

63. Bring back the draft--they'll get conscious real quick

[Skidmore]

66. No, it's not like the Sixties.

And it makes me sad. There is a basic sense of decency, respect, and honor that is missing. Today, the nation is harsh, cold, and cynical. The Sixties were hard times, but there was a sense of hope and there were people in power who genuinely would not allow the nation to be destroyed. I don't know that people like that exist in the numbers needed to save it now.

[Greyhound]

79. You're so right about this, damn you. To think that Barry Goldwater

killed the re:puke: party for years, and now he would be a welcomed relief.

[AgadorSparticus]

76. There was a real media back then, too, which makes all the difference

in the world.

[Danieljay]

83. There is no counter culture because its all about me me me me...

even on the left. I have to hand it to the Republicans, at least they come together enough on the issues to make a unified front against those of us on the left; many of whom can't budge an inch from their pet issues to provide a unified front against any thing or any one. I've said it time and time again here on DU. Between the DINO's in government and the progressives divided among their pet issues... this party will go no where fast.

Its time to come together for the bigger good. We can bitch all we want about the Republicans, but if we cant get our own house in order we will continued to be screwed. And it only gets worse.

[KamaAina]

88. 1966 didn't have a lot of protests every day, either.

1967 did. Think about it.

[OneMoreThyme]

90. right brother

I'm thinking that the wiretapping is the breaking point.

[Telly Savalas]

92. So what?

The so-called counter-culture didn't bring down Nixon. A couple of journalists from the Washington Post did. The counter-culture couldn't even stop Nixon from getting elected a couple of times.

One could make a pretty compelling case that the legacy of the 60's counter-culture has very little in the way of tangible results to show for it.

Did the Vietnam war end because of a decade of protests or because of a decade of folks seeing their children getting killed on TV every night?

Did the poverty rate make a huge drop in the wake of counter-culture movement? What social programs did the counter-culture get implemented which aided families in need?

Did the counter-culture catapult the women's liberation movement (which couldn't even get ERA passed)? Or are the advances in gender equality more due to women who instead of "dropping out" decided to pursue careers in traditionally male-dominated professions.

Did the counter-culture even put a dent in U.S. imperialism or the military-industrial complex?

If they really "awakened society" then how did Reagan have such an easy time getting elected a decade later?

People in this thread lambast the youth of today for being self-centered, but is there a ethos more selfish and anti-social than "tune in, turn on, and drop out"?

If you look at Scandanavian social democracies, it isn't a counter-culture that influences the political agenda. It's run-of-the-mill folks not too different from the average American who strongly advocate social justice and reflect this attitude in the voting booth. Unlike the counter-culture, they're getting results.

Here in Canada, we have universal health-care not because of a bunch of love-ins or whatever, but because of some boring old guy in a grey flannel suit named Tommy Douglas.

Children of the 60's need to quit pissing on the youth of today. Just because the kids aren't trying to levitate the fucking Pentagon doesn't mean they'll make less of an impact than you. To quote a band of your generation: "The Kids are Alright." Given the fact that your generation ultimately led to Reagan and Bush, maybe you should shut the fuck up and listen to today's kids. Quite a few of them post here, you know.

[JVS]

93. Good post, except that the OP is 22

Still :thumbsup: There are way too many people of the mindset that your post criticizes.