Dianne Feinstein said something yesterday that should be amplified by all

[Armstead]

Usually I'm not wild about Senator Feinstein, but in yesterday's hearing, and subsequent interviews, she dropped a bombshell question and a concern that should be repeated, amplified and investigated by all Democrats, and anyone else who is concerned about civil liberties and the Bush administration.

It was so simple and so obvious, and hit the nail on the much bigger issue. She said (paraphrased):

"You already had the ability to do those wiretaps. And if you felt the law was too restrictive, you could have asked us to make changes. We've already done that on numberous things. So why didn't you do that this time? I'm very concrned that the reason may be that there is much more to this than we know. I wonder if you were doing other things that you knew would never be accepted and approved."

That, IMO, gets to the real core of this. Not wanting to fill out time-consuming paperwork for a few wiretaps of likely terrorist supporters is bad but understandable to most people. However, what's going on in addition to that?

We've already learned about other surveillance of frightening groups like the Quakers and theatrical Halliburton protestors. What else is going on that falls outside of the realm of the acceptable?

Watergate wasn't about a cheesy break-in. It was about the unraveling of a larger pattern of wrongdoing that it represented. Dots were connected.

Connect the dots. That's what's important here. Senator Feinstein, and later Sen. Kennedy, hit the nail on the head.

[Roland99]

1. It's going to take more whistleblowers.

The WH will never give up the facts and the Repuke Senators sure aren't going to hold their feet to any fire.

[wtmusic]

2. Or maybe more succinctly,

"What powers does the Constitution *not* grant the President during wartime, or is the Chief Executive's power limitless?"

[Armstead]

4. That too....But this is more basic than the Constitutional issue

"What are they doing that they know is wrong and illegal?"

Even if onbe were to accept that the Presidential has very broad powers, the real issue in this specific case is what they have been doing with the power they have.

It's possible for people to agree with bending the rules in legitimate and targeted efforts to find and catch actual terrorists, but also object to the president using that "flexibility" in ways tha really do impinge on privacy and freedom of the masses. or to use that flexibility in ways that are unrelated to the true national security.

[BR_Parkway]

3. And Gonzo's constant refrain "the program we're talking about here"

sure sounds like there are other programs not being talked about.

So, they named this one "Terrorist Survey" or whatever.

Who's to say they didn't spin off a second program "Campaign Listening" or "Senator Leverage Finder" or whatever name they wanted.

Actually, with their Orwellian naming, it would be "Program to protect the secrets of certain Senators" instead of blackmail I guess.

[abluelady]

13. I Was Also Very Aware of that Refrain

It is scary that this administration has "programs" out the gazoo that should never be done by a country that is a democracy. Wonder who is going to invade us one day to show that "freedom is on the march."

[gkhouston]

14. that was so clumsily handled on Gonzales' part

why not lie outright? Why tap-dance around half-truths that could easily lead to more investigations? Does he want someone to come in and dig for other programs or was he taunting the Senators?

[BR_Parkway]

15. Gonzo is a Shrub crony, they don't have to be the most competant

person on the block - but when they already have knowledge of programs that would show this (mis)Administration in violation of the law, then they do have to get promoted to rewarding positions.

[HereSince1628]

5. No doubt. The wrong doing is on a huge scale.

Congress and the American people would be appalled if they knew.

Gonzales has changed the job description of the Attorney General. He has turned it into the role of defense of the administration, rather than chief enforcer and protector of the constitution and the laws.

[Armstead]

8. Data Mining

The administration was pressured to not pursue plans to use widespread datamining and storage of information with the TIA program a few years ago.

But were they? That seems to be one of the dots that needs connecting.

[HereSince1628]

12. Expect Gonzo will neither confirm nor deny if asked.

It isn't going to be one of the programs he is talking about on that particular day.

[Coastie for Truth]

6. She hit the nail on the head

What is so horrendous that a few procedural changes in FISA would not remedy it?

Are they wire tapping Kucinich, Dean, Wes Clark, John Kerry, John Edwards, Hillary Clinton, who else?

[janx]

7. Are the hearings over, or will they continue?

I caught some of it before work yesterday but then had to leave.

[jean]

9. bush has no legitimate reasons for his spying, that's why he evades FISA

first seen in this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=341031&mesg_id=341031

Who will Save America

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11802.htm
by Paul Craig Roberts

snip

Having eliminated internal opposition, the Bush administration is now using blackmail obtained through illegal spying on American citizens to silence the media and the opposition party.

Before flinching at my assertion of blackmail, ask yourself why President Bush refuses to obey the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. The purpose of the FISA court is to ensure that administrations do not spy for partisan political reasons. The warrant requirement is to ensure that a panel of independent federal judges hears a legitimate reason for the spying, thus protecting a president from the temptation to abuse the powers of government. The only reason for the Bush administration to evade the court is that the Bush administration had no legitimate reasons for its spying. This should be obvious even to a naif.

The United States is undergoing a coup against the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, civil liberties, and democracy itself. The "liberal press" has been co-opted. As everyone must know by now, the New York Times has totally failed its First Amendment obligations, allowing Judith Miller to make war propaganda for the Bush administration, suppressing for an entire year the news that the Bush administration was illegally spying on American citizens, and denying coverage to Al Gore's speech that challenged the criminal deeds of the Bush administration.

The TV networks mimic Fox News' faux patriotism. Anyone who depends on print, TV, or right-wing talk radio media is totally misinformed. The Bush administration has achieved a de facto Ministry of Propaganda.

[Little Star]

10. DiFi is right on this one.

What I don't get is Gonzo's excuse about the time consuming paperwork. Is the problem they don't have enough people employed? I would love to hear one of the senators offer them more head count to be able to comply with the law. How stupid do these people think we are?

[donheld]

11. She really did hit the nail on the head with that

I hope people figure this out.