Does DU Bash Religion?

[stepnw1f]

Poll question: Does DU Bash Religion?

or is it just a Red Herring to get under people's skin?

[pocket]

1. I have no problem with bashing religion

go for it :D

[formernaderite]

9. me neither....

or do most people here believe in superstition?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

13. Thanks for the great example!

[Dorian Gray]

66. Yup...

Well, let me say DU doesn't. Certain postrs, however, do. Like the above one by formernaderite.

[donco6]

57. Jesus bashed religion all the time.

It's kinda what pissed off the Pharisees as I recall. Calling them "whitewashed tombs full of dead men's bones" and all.

I don't believe bad religion deserves any more respect than a faulty argument or goofy philosophy. I'm not saying you can't be a Scientologist, but you can't tell me not to criticize them, either.

[BushOut06]

64. Actually he was bashing them, not the religion

Jesus himself followed the Jewish religion - it wasn't until after his death that Christianity sprang up. What Jesus was attacking was the Pharisees themselves, their actions and attitudes. They had become so wrapped up in themselves and their power, they had completely forgotten everything else. That's why the Pharisees got so pissed off, because Jesus actually had the balls to confront them.

I'm sure that if Jesus were around today, he'd have some pretty negative things to say about the likes of Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and the rest of their ilk.

[meganmonkey]

2. DU has lots of people who like to argue

rather than discuss and learn. Religion is one major target of that.

:shrug:

[Crazy Dave]

3. I've never seen anyone "bashing" any religion...

...just the extremists of certain religions. If anything, I've seen people hear on DU show more respect and tolerance to people of different beliefs, even though they may disagree or be totally agnostic. Better than you see on a freeper site I guess. I never go to them myself.

[KittyWampus]

20. See post #9

number nine number nine number nine

[Crazy Dave]

40. Saying you don't believe in something is not bashing in my opinion

That's the context I get from the post. Now someone like Pat Robertson or O'Rielly would call it bashing, not me.

[demosincebirth]

46. YOu have to be kidding!

Try posting anything good about Christianity and you will see the other side of some DU posters.

[Crazy Dave]

51. I have

My mom is a lifelong democrat but is a staunch catholic who I've discussed with others on here and her beliefs and no one has said anything derogatory about her or the way and what she believes in. Like I said, she's been voting democrat longer than most of us have been alive.

[demosincebirth]

54. I'm not talking about personel faith, I'm referring to Christianity as

some perceive it on this board. I'm Catholic too, but I dare not post any news, for general consumption, about Christianity or Catholicism, on this board. I

[BushOut06]

61. And that's exactly the problem

You shouldn't have to be afraid to post your personal views or news about religion for fear of being attacked.

[demosincebirth]

76. I 'm not "afraid" to post anything

EOM

[Crazy Dave]

73. Very Good But...

I still think there is a lot more tolerance on DU for Christianity versus the type of people that I try to have an intelligent discussion with about evolution. When I pointed out to a gentleman a couple of months ago that even bacteria evolves, different strains of the flu for example become immune to the vaccines from a year before in order to do what...adapt and survive of course. When I asked the guy how he could ignore proof like that he got real red in the face and looked like he wanted to kill me.

[MercutioATC]

4. I voted for "red herring" BUT

I think it would behoove us all to be a little more contemplative before we post. Attributing the actions af a relative few to ALL christians is no more accurate than saying that ALL liberals are whackos because of the actions of some left-wing extremists.

[ret5hd]

10. what left-wing extremists are you reeferring to...

i don't know any myself.

[MercutioATC]

19. If you don't know of any, that's probably a loaded question...

But sure, here goes...

Certain members of PETA

Certain members of Greenpeace

Certain "Ecodefense" people

Those who advocate a complete redistribution of wealth (100% tax on all earnings over a certain limit)

You get the idea...

[Touchdown]

41. Those are organizations of the left?

I can see one of those, the socialists, but not the others. Just because the right hates them doesn't make them left.

[MercutioATC]

58. How many Republican Greenpeace members do you think there are?

Those organizations are (whether right or wrong) identified with the left, just as anti-abortion groups are identified with the right.

Extremists of any flavor are a concern, but they rarely represent the majority.

[Touchdown]

65. MIssing the point.

Greenpeace has nothing to do with any political ideology other than protecting the seas.

Right or wrong, they are identified with the left...is what you said. Care to explore WHY they are identified with the left? Why don't you try the propaganda of the right. All these extremist groups are identified with the "left" because Pat Buchanan, et al. said they were. You are continuing that meme by buying into it.

The last I heard, no socialist of any familiarity advocated for the total abolition of animal control as PETA does. I don't want bears digging through trash bins in the middle of Denver, and I am as liberal as they come. According to PETA, nobody would be allowed to catch it, and let it loose in the mountains, where it belongs. Wherever it wanders, even in your house, it should stay.

I would check the percentage of GOP members in Greenpeace, but I have shit to do.

[MercutioATC]

67. My point remains unchanged.

It has nothing to do with Greenpeace, it has to do with attributing the actions of a few to the whole. I just think it's a good idea to try not to do that.

That's all.

[Touchdown]

71. Thank you for conceding.

Bad analogy. Attributing the actions of a few to the whole is all you had to say.

[MercutioATC]

74. My, you ARE an angry one, aren't you?

Fine, I "conceded" by stating that my point remains unchanged. I'll try to use analogies more to your liking next time...

:eyes:

[Touchdown]

80. Not angry for nothing, just with you.

I do not have words put in my mouth. Have a nice one.:hi:

[MercutioATC]

81. You too.

:hi:

[ieoeja]

78. I will explain why.

"Care to explore WHY they are identified with the left?"

In my (not humble; so why fake it?) opinion Democrats are associated with these groups because Democrats protect freedom of speech. So when these groups are derided and shouted down, you had Democrats standing up for them. I have several activist friends in PETA and environmental rights. When I question any of these friends on other issues they usually come down on the Conservative side. They are anti-taxes, anti-regulations (except for environmental), anti-affirmative action, pro-gun (so am I, but let's not go into the reverse-liberalism of that issue), anti-union, etc.

Except for the Iraqi War**. But that brings up another interesting tidbit: the fact that people on the Left frequently confuse "anti-war" as a Liberal position. And when did Liberals get labelled anti-war? At 44 years of age, I am old enough to remember when Conservatives were isolationists and Liberals interventionists. I remember Republicans making fun of the Democratic Party by calling it the "War Party".

Vietnam changed that.

But was it because Liberalism changed? No. What Liberals did was champion the freedom of speech for the anti-war crowd. Ever since then a lot of people have confused that issue with Liberalism. I bet I've read hundreds of comments on this board along the lines of "pro-war is not Liberal".

[seabeyond]

21. if as a christian it doesnt belong to you, why would you presume

to own it. if someone yells about christians hating gays, and you are a christian and you dont hate gays, why.... would you be bothered. they obviously arent talking about you. we know the christian movement is the group promoting hating gays. we understand the argument. i dont get why a christian would be bothered.

to protect your religion?
to protect your belief?
to protect christ?

i just really dont feel the need. i guess i dont get why a person is even offended.

[MercutioATC]

23. I think I'm speaking more of threads like this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=346127&mesg_id=346127

Intolerance is intolerance. To tell all christians to "STFU" seems silly. There are plenty of moral, thinking christians. Posts like that, I'd consider to be of the "bashing" nature.

Just my opinion.

[seabeyond]

27. well see, even as a christian i agree with it. lol. i love who i am and

my faith and beliefs, and i know this person is angry and i know this person has a reason and right to be angry. and it doesnt hurt me or my faith that this person is angry. further, as a christian it just makes me love that person more, in their anguish. isnt that what christ was about. in our belief, (assuming youa re christian) isnt it the belief christ is in our heart. knows our heart. then with that christ is in this persons heart and knows the anguish fear pain and loves that person. if christ can,... then i can too

i really am not bothered. further, i would stand beside that brother and sister and say i hear you

[MercutioATC]

29. Actually, I'm agnostic

I still think that level of discourse is unproductive. I'm not arguing with the fact that some "Christian" leaders are doing things I consider dangerous. I'm debating the wisdom behind the agressive tone of the statement in that thread.

[seabeyond]

33. ok... but then you know what, i have seen parenting threads

where i am so surprised how amny peopple dont like children. think children should be totally kept out of their world, that this is not a childs world but adult world, and they should not only be quiet but out of site too. lol. i have found with internet that people are extreme. that people say thing the dont even believe but do it to piss people off. so if not looking at it from a christian view, then i go to dont take it personally. r eally who the f* cares what this person says..

shruggin

i hear you. if everyone was repsectful, actually honestly respond but not attack to when battle, intellectual and not reactionary, it may be more fun. but as far as boards, this is the most thinking by far of any board i have participated on. perfection it is not

[MercutioATC]

36. Like I said, I voted "red herring"

I think some people are making more of an issue of it than it actually is. At the same time, I think that we'd all be a little further ahead of we weren't running around telling people "STFU" because they didn't agree with us.

That's all.

:)

[seabeyond]

37. i agree, wink not my favorite. i prefer wtf, personally, lol n/t

[Touchdown]

44. I didn't tell "all" Christians to STFU. Nice lie!

You really have a reading comprehension problem, don't you?

I have a problem with those who claim victimhood where no REAL victimization took place. You fly off the handle and assume I want to bring back lynching. I wasn't setting up a zero sum game with my thread. You just assumed that.

[seabeyond]

45. lol lol touchdown nor did i hear poster accuse you of wanting to

bring back lynching.

oh just thought that was a funny. i agree with everyone. lol lol. just made me chuckle

on edit i reread your post. and that is my argument as a christian i need to help clean up my religion that was hijacked. couldnt agree more

[Touchdown]

50. It might have been TalahasseeGranny

and not my friend who posted here, but it's there. Look.

I may have needed to embellish my POV a little more, but my Boss was coming around the corner at the time. I had to be quick.:evilgrin:

[seabeyond]

53. my Boss was coming around the corner

lol lol you bad

[JuniperLea]

31. Christian wackos are no different than Muslim wackos

There are very good, peaceful and wonderful people in both groups. The dark side of both do nothing but provide very bad PR for God.

[MercutioATC]

32. My point exactly.

[yella_dawg]

5. No problem!

I'm good at bashing religion. No problem at all.

[patdem]

6. Is your question ambiguous or do you mean what you say?

Does DU have a problem with bashing religion or should it read..Is bashing religion a problem on DU? I am not sure what you mean, really?

[Mythsaje]

7. Despite the fact that I think revealed religion

is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated against the human race, I think bashing religion is disrespectful.

I don't bash religion, but I won't hide my skepticism.

[benburch]

8. I don't bash religion.

Though I am an Atheist/Materialist I do not bash religion.

I *do* bash hypocritical religiosity though, and always will.

[wake.up.america]

12. Depends on how one defines "religion".

[rman]

26. also depends on how one defines "bashing". nt

[Seen the light]

11. Bashing religion? Yes, I have a problem. Bashing fundamentalism?

HELL no I don't have a problem.

[seabeyond]

lol step i laughed at #3 though i voted #1. that was cute n/t

[Greyhound]

14. Not to get under their skin, to act as a distraction. n/t

[sui generis]

15. it's hard to say fairly

When you note something negative about religion, people who identify strongly with their religion take it as a deeply and profoundly personal attack.

Sometimes even when you just have an opinion about religion it is taken as an all out attack.

Freedom of religion and freedom of speech don't intersect well here.

[BR_Parkway]

16. Doesn't DU have a Religion forum for this? Seems like half the

'bashings' are about things posted in GD

[mattclearing]

17. Actually, the real answer is: Who cares?

So what if it does?

[China_cat]

18. In the eyes of most religionists

it doesn't matter how 'respectful' you are of their beliefs. If you say you don't subscribe to their beliefs and don't care to, then you're bashing and trying to limit their religious 'rights'.

[Crunchy Frog]

22. There are members of DU who bash religion.

There are other members of DU who bash atheists or the non-religious. I think the policy of the site is to maintain neutrality, but to insist on maintaining a certain level of civility in discourse on the subject.

On a site as diverse as this, most everybody is going to feel that they get bashed.

[Momgonepostal]

28. Exactly, DU doesn't bash, but a few of its posters do

I have never been under the impression that DU is anti-religion, but tehre are a few individuals who like to make snarky remarks.

[HereSince1628]

24. Historically Americans tend to make fun of religion

It serves to offset the cognative dissonance of having a majority of the population involved in religons that teach beliefs that conflict with the secular social demands of daily life in a free republic.

[rman]

25. Can minorities create the impression of being a majority

-if only temporarily- simply by being very vocal?

Good thing DU's 'election system' isn't owned by Diebold.

[BushOut06]

30. Oh, no - none whatsoever

I realize that from all the responses to my thread that started all this backlash.

There are NO negative feelings toward religion on this board. All the responses to my thread were quite positive and loving, I love how the DU community embraces everyone regardless of faith or creed.

[stepnw1f]

42. That's Right... DU Accepts Everyone

even those accusing DU of being intolerant towards religion.

[BushOut06]

47. for the record...

I never accused DU of being intolerant towards religion. Just some people - not going to lump everyone in one group ;)

That being said, we have our disagreements on this issue, but I'd still share a beer with you (or just about any DUer for that matter).

[badgerpup]

34. tough question...define 'religion'

I'm seeing a lot of religions as a social structure as much if not more than as an expression of faith.
This is how you define your 'group'.
IMHO...religion does NOT equal spirituality, although the two can get along together.
It's when the idea of 'religion' takes over that people get brainwashed and mindless crazy on the subject.
JMHO...:shrug:

[SmokingJacket]

35. People on DU bash EVERYTHING.

There's a bunch of different voices and opinions, some smarter and more well-thought than others.

So what?

Frankly, I'm not big on religion-bashing myself, but I do think that religion can take it.

[Finder]

49. The problem is thinskinned posters...

most of the time.

[Sapphire Blue]

38. I'm curious - what do DUers who post negatively about religion think of...

The Christian Alliance for Progress: http://www.christianalliance.org

Sojourners: http://sojo.net

Faithful America: http://www.faithfulamerica.org


What do you think of those who protested the budget cuts on the steps of the Canon Building, and got arrested?

Testimony: http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=action.display_c&item=051214_arrests_testimony

Video: rtsp://real.faithandvalues.com/streaming/sojourners/051214_moralbudget.rm

Please remember that Robertson, Falwell, the Taliban, et al, do not speak for all people of faith.

[stepnw1f]

43. Seriously Sapphire... I Welcome It

and think it is very necessary to get these groups out there, just like you just did. No sarcasm from me. I mean this sincerely...

[seabeyond]

48. right there with you. we are majority. it is the christian thing to do,

lol. it is a few loud mouths that as another has said, hijacked out religion.

[KamaAina]

39. No.

Some DUers do, obviously. DU as a whole does not. Proof: Every time it happens, believing DUers, and those of us who believe in civil discourse, are right there to counter-bash.

[Swamp Rat]

52. Yes, 'DU' is very talented. DU can bash religion while juggling flaming

swords and candy apples. :eyes:

DU is very smart too. DU can do extremely difficult mathematical calculations while bashing religion. :eyes:

DU, the consummate religion basher :eyes: can also play Bartok's entire "Microcosmos" collection while writing derivitive sonnets in iambic pentameter.... while bashing religion. :eyes:

Hey DU! Why do you bash religion? :shrug:

Bad DU! BAAAD DU! :spank:

arf!

:eyes:

[seabeyond]

55. and ..... du you can be so cute about all that and bashing religion

you are cute, made me laugh

[stepnw1f]

69. That Was My Point

I do not think DU bashes religion as a whole. There may be a few out of 80+ thousand memebrs, but it is a super-small minority, if that, that bashes religion itself.

[donco6]

56. Only when necessary and appropriate.

And it seems to be quite frequently appropriate.

[dogday]

59. It is the Fundies that DU has a problem with

but sometimes they try to lump us all together with the fundies and we are not like that. I believe in God and Jesus. I believe that is a woman wants to have an abortion that is her choice. I believe that every citizen should have equal rights and protection under the law and that especially goes for gays and lesbians, who have gotten the short end of the stick time and time again.

My religion teaches me to be nice, not to judge, and to believe in the good of everyone. I just don't like being linked to those fanatics. They are not supposed to be the religious police, God is, so they need to stop being so fanatical....

[immoderate]

60. Love the Christian, hate the religion.

IMO, religion never did anybody any good, except for a few professionals. Yet there are wonderful people who identify with such beliefs and some of them are my friends. I don't think religion is good for civilization, alas, it is mapped into our psyche. I don't have to deal with religion, I deal with people.

--IMM

[BushOut06]

63. How can you possibly say that?

Religion has never done anybody any good? Wow, what a sweeping generalization that is, and just chock-full of dismissal. I've known quite a few people who had drinking problems, drug addictions, and all sorts of other personal problems. They "came to Christ" (go ahead, flame away if you want), and their lives did change for the better. Now you can call that using a crutch all you want, but the simple fact is their lives did change for the better. There are lots of examples where someone has "found religion" and completely turned their life around for the better.

The problem is that such accomplishments often are dismissed. "Oh, he found religion, how nice - you know that religion is a crutch for the weak". So friggin what. If it helps people live better lives, then I don't really care if it's religion, drugs, psychotherapy, or whatever method is used.

[immoderate]

68. That's not religion.

That's psychology. Churches perform many social functions to justify their existence. Most of these activities are not religious. Religion is praying and sacrificing animals. The rest are human activities that are also performed outside the religious framework. These activities take advantage of human tendency to magical thinking, but there is no miracle or supernatural intervention. Some people get the same benefits from joining a health club.

--IMM

[BushOut06]

72. Have you ever actually witnessed it?

I'm talking about complete, sudden turnarounds. And yes, even if it is just "mind over matter", who cares if the vehicle is religion or a health club?

I've seen such miraculous turnarounds many times. I've also witnessed other miracles, such as healings. Again, whether these are mind-induced or the result of a supernatural healing, what does it really matter? I don't understand the overwhelming need of so many to try and discredit something that cannot be proven or disproven. We don't have to prove that God exists, any more than you have to prove that he doesn't.

[immoderate]

79. I've seen turnarounds.

William James called it the conversion experience. I'm not against religion for the good that it does. I'm against religion for the harm that it does.

--IMM

[dogday]

85. I have often known people good as gold

Christians who were the nicest, kindest people who would give you the shirt off their back if you needed it. Good people who would never judge and certainly would never tell anyone off....

[SidDithers]

62. Faith, like atheism, is something deeply personal...

I don't bash the religious or their religion, to me that is like personal attack on theist posters here at DU. I will, however, vigorously defend atheism, and correct what I feel are misconceptions about atheists, when I see them posted.

Sid

[dogday]

86. How can one person expect anyone to believe

what they know is true in their heart. Each one of us has to make that journey and find out for ourselves what works for us in our lives. But whatever works, should not be condemned or slandered in any way, shape or form...

[H2O Man]

70. Some do.

Some don't.

[LittleClarkie]

75. Well, not for long

True bashing of anything is generally flamebait, and deleted pretty quickly.

If folks can keep it civil, a discussion can ensue.

But religious discussion is not conducive to civil discussion oftentimes.

[incapsulated]

77. Sometimes, yes.

Sometimes it's legitimate criticism, other times it's just bashing and baiting.

That's when I use the ignore function.

Also works for the cigarette threads I need to stay out of.

[radio4progressives]

82. This is a NON ISSUE/Red Herring/Flame Bait - the question is Why?

Why is this subject brought up at all?


Religious Faith is personal, and should be kept personal. for those who want to engage in theogolical discussions should take that on a message board that is focused on such matters.

But All Religious Fundelmentalism is BAD, EVIL SHITE and should NOT EVER BE TOLERATED. that's my opinion.

[Spider Jerusalem]

83. It's a total absurdity...

to say 'DU bashes religion'...or pretty much anything else, for that matter. This is a discussion forum with thousands of members, who range from decidedly right of centre to extreme left in politics, and have religious beliefs that include Protestant Christianity, Catholicism, Judaism, Islam, paganism, agnisticism, atheism...with such a wide-ranging and diverse cross-section of belief and opinion,l saying 'DU does X', as though it were a monolithic entity, is just stupid.

[SPKrazy]

84. It's Partially True!

but DU isn't going to hell.

And it isn't DU per say

It is posters on DU (a small minority mind you) that seem to like to get the goat of those of us with beliefs in God, and who belong to organized religion.

[Pacifist Patriot]

87. DU doesn't do anything. Too many individuals participate here.

Unique members get heated in religious discussions but I don't think there is unilateral bashing going on. Quite frankly I think all sides have the capacity to dish it out...and not like taking it. It seems to go in waves to me. I won't see anything about religion for awhile and then all of a sudden I see quite a few threads on the subject. Current events tend to influence content around here obviously.

I think one of the funniest things I've seen was in a religious debate at DU. Two atheists got into an argument about the definition of atheism and they both accused each other of not being "true atheists." It was too ironic not to be an absolute side splitter. Neither one of them drew the parallel to "you're not a true Christian."

I will say there is more of a tendency to treat minority religions more gently and challenge the majority religion more strongly. But if the adherents are secure in their beliefs than strong challenges shouldn't be much of a problem. I consider it bashing when a broad monotheistic tradition is painted with a single brush, not when the unChristian antics of Falwell and ilk are decried.