bush can wiretap all he wants! WIRETAPPING IS FINE. Just...

[LynnTheDem]

OBEY U.S. LAW & GET A WARRANT FIRST.

It's that fucking simple.

[LeftNYC]

1. YES even Washington did that when he was electronically

tapping our cherry trees...

[LynnTheDem]

2. Actually Washington lied about that. It was apple trees.

Did you sleep thru that in school? You did, didn't you. In fact weren't you the one snoring in the desk behind me?

[LeftNYC]

3. HAHA! Good point...

But Alberto is insisting it was cherry trees...And I believe everything he says :sarcasm:

[Dembo98]

4. Question

Being an avid reader and never wanting to sound stupid, I have been doing a lot of reading on FISA. As much as I don't like it, it seems to me that if you look at a couple court rulings (the "Keith case" and the "Truong case), the courts of appeal are unanimous in their decisions that warrantless wiretapping is OK when the primary purpose is for foreign intelligence. Even if one of the parties is an American citizen. Please tell me I am reading these rulings wrong. If not, it seems to me that the courts have already ruled and that it is legal. Someone help.

[yodermon]

5. The problem

with those cases is that they involve pre-FISA era surveillance. Now that FISA is the law of the land, any surveillance involving US citizens must get a warrant from the judicial branch. (see http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/21/appeals-court-myth ) If you surveil on a US citizen without a warrant, you have broken the law, QED. This is also bad because any evidence gathered by such surveillance will be inadmissible in court, letting terrorists off scott free on technicalities.

The other reason this is bad is that without judicial oversight, we have No Way of Knowing who/what the executive branch is spying on. There is no Check. All we have is Bush's "word" on the matter that "yeah, we're only wiretapping al queda suspects, don't you worry your pretty little head." Why should we believe him, when he repeatedly assured us, Out Loud and in his Own Voice, that "The government can’t move on wiretaps or roving wiretaps without getting a court order" and "Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires – a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we’re talking about chasing down terrorists, we’re talking about getting a court order before we do so."

These are demonstrably false statements. Lies. Uttered by President Bush on this very matter. He now admits that no, we were wiretapping without a court order and will continue to do so. So why should we trust a proven liar?

[gkhouston]

10. nicely done

I would add that given the volume of people that have been warrantlessly wiretapped, if the NSA is truly only spying on Americans who are talking to al Qaeda on the phone, then al Qaeda must be supporting itself these days by telemarketing. Better add "no terrorists" to your "Do Not Call" list, folks!

[LynnTheDem]

12. ROTFLMAO!!!!!

Oh man that's GREAT!

:rofl:

[LynnTheDem]

6. The 2 cases you refer to were BEFORE FISA.

The US law is very plain & clear; wiretapping without warrant is ILLEGAL.

[LeftNYC]

9. Is this William Kristol? nt

[LynnTheDem]

11. Exact same Q asked in 6 different threads. It's bush hisself

caty-pulting the propaganda.

Hey bush! :hi: YOU SUCK!

[CatWoman]

14. *snarf*

:D

[Kung Fu Bovine]

7. Interesting quote from the prez...

Obey the law? That's for everyone else. I'm just going to pre-empt then hide behind the Constitution...then let this Gonzalez guy lie all he wants why not he's not under oath.

[newyawker99]

13. Hi Kung Fu Bovine!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Swamp Rat]

8. OBEY!