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Conformity: Is that Why There are still "Bush Supporters"?

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LisaLynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 09:13 PM
Original message
Conformity: Is that Why There are still "Bush Supporters"?

His administration is besieged in scandal after scandal, there are no roses in the Iraq War-of-Choice, and enemy number one (bin Laden -- you know, the guy who might actually have had something to do with 9/11) is raking up a straight-to-video catalog that makes an ex-Brat Pack actor of the 80’s blush. Why aren’t Georgie-boy’s poll numbers, as bad as they are, in the negative numbers? Sure seems like they should be. What more can it take to wake people up?

In my admittedly futile attempts to understand how anyone can still support Lil’ Lord Pissypants, I offer yet another possibility as to why Bush has any “supporters” at all and also to why it took so long for so many people to realize the Chimperor has no clothes.

In the early fifties, Dr. Solomon Asch, a social psychologist, became famous for research he conducted into the ways in which human beings will conform to the perceptions of a group. The experiment was set up so that one true subject was in a room with what that person believed were other subjects. The other subjects were, in actuality, in on the joke, so to speak. They were shown cards with lines printed on them and asked to judge the relative lengths of the lines. Check out the Wikipedia link at the end of the post for an example, in you’re interested.

Now, everyone except the subject would pick a wrong answer, but declare aloud that it was their pick for the right answer. So, the subject found him- or herself in disagreement with everyone else in the room.

The experiment found that roughly 33% (some summaries of his experiment put the number higher) of participants would go along with the rest of the group, even though the answer given by the group was clearly wrong. Hmm. 33%. What does that number remind me of? Oh, yes, that’s dangerously close to Bush’s approval rating.

The participants said that while they usually knew the answer was wrong, they went along with the group consensus, citing not wanting to be ridiculed (or “though peculiar”) by the others as the reason.

I think this might have some bearing on the Bush supporters. Think about the experiment again. People actually changed their answers to wrong ones for something that was right in front of them just because other people were saying a different answer was right. Something they could see with their own two eyes. Something that wasn’t subjective or a matter of opinion or even knowledge. Something that a chimp could be trained to figure out.

In some ways, many of Bush supporters (past and present) are in the same boat as the sole dupe of Asch experiment, and it’s just as contrived. The architects of this administration set up the idea and the media, willing to go along out of fear, out of stupidity, out of laziness (take your pick), creates the illusion that everyone loves Bush, that the economy is great, that only terrorists are against the Iraq war. You’re “peculiar” if you don’t see it. After all, everybody else does.

So, there is a situation created in this country in which people go along with the impulse that Asch found in his research – to deny what they see in order to conform to the group.

The only difference might be that Asch conducted his experiment in order to look for insight into the human condition, into what makes us tick, and was appalled by the results. I don’t think those who are orchestrating the current experiment are appalled at all, except perhaps by the fact that it doesn’t work on all of us, all of the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments
http://www.psych.upenn.edu/sacsec/about/solomon.htm
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AIJ Alom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. In all honesty, some people are actually profitting from all this havoc.
And using there wealth and influence, they can keep the timid sheep, still afraid of "terror" within the flock.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Speaking of supporters.... the poor boy needs to wear one on
his jaw to put a brake on that pitch and yaw..... haw haw haw.....

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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. They just took Goebbel's lessons,...and improved upon them.
They know people want to feel safe in a world where none of us have complete control while we angst to control it.

It's all about playing on our inability to control,...and our fear of the unknown.

They've master pushing our basic buttons in a way far more cunning and subtle than Hitler.

Hell, they play on all of us, everyday. We "buy" into their divisive tactics rather than remain steady in our righteous, yes "righteous" passions. They pull us into THEIR sick realm,...we even spread that sickness and basically expand their darkness by fighting against them.

I just can't play this game, anymore. I take a stand for human interests and refuse to defend against those who, by their actions, manipulate and exploit people. Why the fuck should those assholes be given power over the board of human life?

*sigh*

I've had enough. I am gonna' play a different "game",...one that includes ALL people and EVERYONE plays by the rules. To hell with the cheaters. To hell with them.
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nookiemonster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Hell's too convenient for them right now.
First, the Hague. Let's see where we are at that point, and reassess.

I'm on the same wavelength as you are. You nailed it.

:)

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Angry Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. The echo boomers are coming..... Be afraid, be very afraid...
For they are a totalitarian's dream come true.

"They have been heavily programmed. The kids who have had soccer Monday, Kung Fu Tuesday, religious classes Wednesday, clarinet lessons Thursday. Whose whole lives have really been based on what some adult tells them to do," says Levine.

"This is a generation that has long aimed to please. They've wanted to please their parents, their friends, their teachers, their college admissions officers."

It's a generation in which rules seem to have replaced rebellion, convention is winning out over individualism, and values are very traditional.

<SNIP>

"When you ask kids, 'What do you most hope to achieve there?' Where they used to say, 'I wanna be No. 1. I wanna be the best,' increasingly they're saying, 'I wanna be an effective member of the team. I wanna do everything that's required of me,'" says Howe.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/01/60minutes/main646890.shtml

Now put that in context with these....

U.S. Propaganda Bureau to Get 90% More Funding than PBS
http://mediacitizen.blogspot.com/2006/02/bush-budget-pumps-propaganda-slashes.html

Fear factors greatly into how Americans vote
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=362458&mesg_id=362458

The Power of Nightmares: Baby It's Cold Outside
Should we be worried about the threat from organised terrorism or is it simply a phantom menace being used to stop society from falling apart?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/3755686.stm
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TheProphetess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. Excellent point
Here's what really interesting. With Asch's original experiment, the subjects did not know the other people with whom they conformed - these were strangers who had no bearing on the subjects' lives. And they still felt compelled to conform and give an obviously wrong answer to a fairly easy question. Other studies have shown that when the group is of importance to the subject, conformity increases (see, for example, Latane's social impact theory).

So, your point is an interesting one in that many of these Bush supporters are not just going along with an unknown group - they are conforming to social pressure from people they know and look up to. Add a little (or a lot of) media spin to make W's political decisions seem somewhat reasonable and it's a wonder why the numbers aren't higher than they are now. The power of social influence is greater than we would like to admit, especially in our individualistic society.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Actually, your point may be even more significant.
Even with all the BushCO/neoconster generated propaganda, the lies and bullshit, the media being pulled by its masters,....GWB is suffering VERY LOW approval numbers.

Maybe, our society HAS grown beyond those who seek to intentionally control them. We are definitely STILL a social organism,...we just can't operate without eachother, as "individualistic" as we may be.
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LisaLynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. That's a really good observation.
It just makes this basic instinct that we, perhaps, have and making it that much more effective because it's coming from people they look up to. And I really think that there is something in the conservative mind that makes them believe that these people really must be better than they are because they are more "successful". That's a subject for another post, but I think it makes the pressure to accept what they are being told by this people even greater. You don't want to argue with someone smarter than you -- you'll end up looking silly! I think that's also something that they fear.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. Cult of Personality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality

and many get all their news from conservative groups...

For example, a couple of friends of mine, after going on and on with RW talking points about Shiavo, Katrina, Blanco, ..., didn't even know who Tom DeLay was or Cunningham or Abramoff...

That tells you something right there...
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. this dovetails nicely to an earlier post of mine
it has to do with peoples' understanding of the truth. while people have an abstract notion that the truth comes from god or from physical laws, in practice people understand the "truth" is that which is commonly believed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=331396&mesg_id=331396

the shrubbies capitalize on this by creating the impression that their story is the truth and other stories are lies. people hear people talking about a "popular wartime president" or "wmds in iraq", e.g., from enough different sources, and hear the naysayers getting laughed at and dismissed, and so for them this BECOMES the truth because it gets talked about exactly as if it were the truth.
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LisaLynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. That's something I've been getting mildly obessed with.
And who can blame me, the way this administration plays with perceptions and the truth. And it even comes into play with their smear campaigns against their enemies, like this whole business with Mrs. King's funeral. Because they say what was said was inappropriate, people start to beleive that it was. But, when you look at it, it was completely appropriate and a celebration of this great woman's life. But, they say things and suddenly, it's as though it's true because people seem to lack critical thinking skills (and many other things).

But, thanks for pointing me to that thread! Things have been moving so quickly around here lately, I feel like I'm missing good stuff!
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
12. It may also be this:
5 symptoms of a cult-

1 The organization is willing to place itself above the law. With the exceptions noted earlier, this is probably the most important characteristic.
2 The leadership dictates (rather than suggests) important personal (as opposed to spiritual) details of followers' lives, such as whom to marry, what to study in college, etc.
3 The leader sets forth ethical guidelines members must follow but from which the leader is exempt.
4 The group is preparing to fight a literal, physical Armageddon against other human beings.
5 The leader regularly makes public assertions that he or she knows is false and/or the group has a policy of routinely deceiving outsiders.

#2 may look like it doesn't apply, but I have seen cases where freepers refer to how they live their lives as dictated by Our Leader. As a matter of fact, I came across a website once where the author, a woman, apologized for being a woman, since women aren't supposed to work and therefore she didn't have the right to write a web article.
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LisaLynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. You know, I might just start thinking about this admin and ...
its supporters like a cult. It makes more sense. :) And that woman? Scary, man. Just scary.

:hi: EP and Prophetess!
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KyuzoGator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'm convinced that 30% of America is borderline retarded.
In poll after poll after poll, there's that magical 28-32% that supports Bush no matter what.
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-08-06 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
15. Keep in mind that
a majority of Germans continued to support Hitler until the very end of the war.

Most people do not want to think for themselves, which is why organized religions do so well.
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