Official Homeland Security Committee Brownie Bake – Thread 5

[Sydnie]

Thread 1

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=378137&mesg_id=378137

Thread 2

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=378593&mesg_id=378593

Thread 3

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=378909&mesg_id=378909

Thread 4

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=379113&mesg_id=379113

[rpgamerd00d]

1. This is how Brown seems to have run FEMA....

[stop the bleeding]

2. thank you n/t

[AngryAmish]

3. Hi everybody!

[Sydnie]

12. Hi AngryAmish

Glad you could join us! :hi:

[Dunvegan]

4. Reps are going to bash Brownie on his compentency...Easy pickins' that

Even Brownie's testimony swings between defensive and feisty to lame and tentative.

Geesh...wanna take up a collection to get Brownie a REAL LAWYER and someone to straighten out his records, the timeline, and his full responses to the Administration and DHS so he can sound solid?

[CornField]

21. If a board of directors appoints an incompetent CEO, who do you blame?

The CEO for the mismanagement or the Board which didn't act in the best interests of the company?

[Norquist Nemesis]

5. Lautenberg up now

:popcorn:

[ncrainbowgrrl]

Oh, this should be good...He's going to go after the admin...(n/t)

[ncrainbowgrrl]

24. Oh, I'm right!

Here we go... :popcorn:

[displacedtexan]

32. Hey! That's my dog in your avatar!

Hamish is his name.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

48. My avatar is my dog-Tandem- she passed away recently

I have the avatar as my personal way of remembering her each time I leave a post on DU.

I'm glad that someone else has a Westie. :hug:

[bigbrother05]

65. dupe

[bigbrother05]

52. No, that's my dog ZuZu!

Added on edit: Saw your message after my post, sorry for your loss.

[AnnInLa]

6. Couple of observations:

Obvioulsy, the administration has hung him out to dry....he is on his own, he will be the fall guy. Jane, at Firedoglake.com thinks the admin will begin leaking the emails that have been held back from the committee, or they will be dumped wholesale on the committee, all to back up the attacks by Norm Coleman.

To me, Brownie continues to cover for the administration.

His spit-curl is very distracting.

[malaise]

13. I wonder

if Brownie was apointed with orders to report directly to RoveCo. at the WH and is now the official scapegoat

[Catchawave]

7. Lautenberg turning the screw now :)

[rodeodance]

14. so, is Chertoff just get let off the hook?

[myrna minx]

22. "Brownie has been designated as the scape goat:"

Brownie snickers.

[Maggie_May]

8. Hey Lautenberg we are in bad shape!

[Nothing Without Hope]

9. REMEMBER: LIEBERMAN LED COMMITTEE THAT CONFIRMED BROWN IN 2002:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2091105

This thread has the story and - if the link still works - a VIDEO on it

[Catchawave]

30. Amazing how that could happen !

[Nothing Without Hope]

45. I think it will make Bush-lovin' Joe even more unctuous and cautious

Because it is something for the Repubs to grab as "proof" that Dems are at fault.

[speedoo]

10. Brown effectively trashes Chertoff.

In response to Bennett's questions, Brown talks about Chertoff ignoring him.

Lautenberg up now.

[rodeodance]

25. but, by the closing Sen comment--seems that Chertoff is off?--or what ??

[LiberalAndProud]

11. Bennett:

i'm sympathetic to what u r saying. having been in that situation, i know that there are things that could be done. I'm struck by "I don't remember who I called at the white house, I think it was Joe but I don't remember." & then you remember specifically what u said.

a: general I say the same things to everybody

q: going back to context of dept with structural difficulties, the way u deal w/ that in an emergency is u ignore the departmental lines. & it's easy for me to say after the fact. I think I would have gotten on the fone and demanded cherthoff directly. even in heavily beurocratic environment. why did you not demand that u speak w/ chertoff?

a: that would not have been effective. that's why my conversations were w/ the WH

q: u r telling us that wire-to-wire conversation with chertoff would not have helped

a: no it would have wasted my time. bypassed chain-of-command

q: staggering statement demonstrates disfunctional dept to degree far greater than any we've seen

a: u have copies of documents where i have since 03 been pointing out this disfunctionality and if they are not fixed this dept is doomed to fail

Bennett op: if i had deputy sec who preferred to call WH rather than me, i would have a problem. when sec chertoff came here for confirmation, he was open to all kinds of suggestions about dept structure. i do not find him a man who would refuse to talk to u. did you ever try to discuss this w/ him?

a: 2 attempts, shortly after he arrived & March 2005 chertoff had announded he wanted under-secs to prepare briefing - budget, personnel & wanted to know what our most serious challenges were. i discussed preparedness, nat'l response plan, organization structure. he was to have those component head meetings w/ everybody. he never had one w/ me. 2nd attempt - argued that preparedness belonged in FEMA.

Bennett: i understand why chertoff didn't know.u didn't think it would do any good to tell him.

a: 1 of the reasons i didn't succeed is that DHS is more buracracy to slow me down.

bennett: he didn't know because u didn't tell him

[bmcatt]

15. Lautenberg: "You are the designated scapegoat" n/t

[Sydnie]

20. I love having that spoken out loud and in the record! n/t

[janx]

101. And it's true.

The more I listen to Brownie, the clearer that becomes!

[0007]

16. Bennett is an asshole. The Repukes aren't listening, all they're

doing is yelling sour grapes....a railroad job it is. Seems like the Senators are to busy talking instead of listening.

[Lex]

17. "You have been selected the designated scapegoat" says Lautenberg.

True that.

[Nothing Without Hope]

33. Oh, now HERE is a good moment. It's true: he's the designated scapegoat

and they think they can "prove" it by selective leaks of emails, holding back the ones that would blast Bush and Chertoff, who by law had the true authority.

Good to have it stated like that.

[dogday]

18. TDSG

The Designated Scape Goat

[Greeby]

19. "You have been selected as the designated scapegoat!"

:bounce:

[Norquist Nemesis]

28. "Keep your chin up and keep fighting"

IOW, Point the finger where it belongs.

[Dunvegan]

23. Lautenberg : You've been selected as the designated scapegoat...Go Dems!

[ncrainbowgrrl]

29. Keep your chin up and fight back- you're not here to be the target.

[rodeodance]

31. wonder if browie feels like he has been tossed to the wind?

[Norquist Nemesis]

36. He realized that the day he 'resigned' and became a consultant n/t

[janx]

108. Absolutely he does.

He's been waiting for a time when he's allowed to talk.

[Dunvegan]

38. Lautenberg rocks...came up through the military from middle class.

[Dunvegan]

43. Lautenberg: Fingers Point at the White House

[Imalittleteapot]

26. Lautenberg: You have been designated as the

official scapegoat.

[Maggie_May]

27. Fight back Brownie

[rodeodance]

35. geech my head is spining. thinking i am with brownie here! eeks

[Maggie_May]

44. I know I feel the same way

But there is no way its all his fault.

[ChiciB1]

56. I Just Said The Same Thing!!

It ain't really true is it??? We must think "out of the box" here!

[Nordmadr]

He severely screwed up and is certainly not without fault,

but I have to say, I admire his fight. He does not want to be scapegoated nor should he in any way bear the full brunt of criticism. He has alot to answer for, but so do others, and at least he is NOW making an attempt to answer questions.

Olafr

[Catchawave]

42. "blame game easy to play, hard to win"

[951-Riverside]

62. I'm not this asshole cost ALOT of lives

He's just telling us what we've already known

[vanboggie]

34. Brownie will be voting Dem from now on

see what Pukes are really like, Brownie?

[rodeodance]

39. 'the blame game is a hard game to win"---yes if you are not the WH.

[Maggie_May]

37. Still no trailers who's responsible White House

[CornField]

40. "They point at the White House." ~Lautenberg

Yup, they sure do, Frank.

[rodeodance]

46. missed that as i filled my coffee cup . thanks.

[Catchawave]

49. Buck stops with Bush is his theme... from a former CEO !!!!!

[sproutster]

41. You were not on the payroll

Get those trailers there now. No matter which way you point your fingers they ALL POINT TO THE WHITEHOUSE.

[rodeodance]

51. Lau. is slapping the WH. te he.

[rodeodance]

54. brownie to talk of when WH knew.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

66. I saw this coming. Lautenberg wasn't going to stop at the surface.

He was going to get deeper= try and get beyond the Brownie-bashing and show that that the buck didn't stop with Brownie-boy.

[xiamiam]

53. best comment so far today

[rodeodance]

95. yes, clear and to the point--you can fess up brownie.

[ChiciB1]

47. Oh My... I Think I'm Actually Feeling A Bit Fuzzy For Brownie!!

And THIS is a very strange feeling! Is Chertoff going to testify?? I mean Bownie DID screw up after all, and if I had been in N.O. I'm sure I wouldn't give a hoot how much guff they're giving him!

Gee, talk about Repuke BACKLASH!!!

[displacedtexan]

55. Brownie's problem...

was accepting the appointment to a position, for which he knew he wasn't qualified, in the first place.

[ChiciB1]

77. For Sure... But He DID Make The Decision!

Guess you just chalk if up to "opportunistic glory" or something!

It AIN'T WHAT YOU KNOW... it's WHO YOU KNOW!! I'm sure he'll think twice about anything BUSH in the future!

Me, I don't even buy Bush Beans even though I know full well the two aren't connected! I'm so bad now that I don't call any type of shrubbery bushes anymore! These people have invaded my space in far too many ways and I avoid ANY and ALL contact or reference to these persons!

[vanboggie]

57. Red Brownie

I think his blood pressure has skyrocketed.

[Norquist Nemesis]

58. Shit rolls downhill, dontcha know

But it still starts at the top.

[Dunvegan]

64. Please! No "MBEB"...Please!

[dogday]

50. Shows you that Chertoff is just a symbol, nothing more

has no power like he should....

[rodeodance]

60. says on Monday WH was being told (b.)

[Dunvegan]

59. Lautenberg: At 10:12 in the am (reports) were flowing. WH issued denial.

[rodeodance]

67. oh oh, sometimes i like warner and many times i do not.

[dogday]

85. Any man who got lucky enough to marry Liz Taylor

I look at him and wondered what she saw, but hey when you take enough pills, anybody starts to look good....

[stop the bleeding]

61. day is night, up is down, left is right - what is happening

:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:

[CornField]

63. Monday, Aug. 29th, he (Brown) spoke with Andy Card

[rodeodance]

68. so, the next question--did andy inform Bush?--if no, then why not?

[Norquist Nemesis]

72. The cartoons weren't over yet. n/t

[rodeodance]

73. Warner--all impediments are gone (since exec. privlege not taken by

Wh).

[rodeodance]

74. collins saying WH has the right to asset Exc. Priv. in some future time.

[Catchawave]

69. Warner should be fair and balanced...I hope.

[LiberalAndProud]

70. Lautenburg:

U have been selected as designated scapegoat. That’s what I see. I think we’re clear on pres bush’s message to u on Friday. “Brownie you’re doing a heckofa job”. Somebody must have said u were doing this right. I served in wwii I know that we couldn’t protect everyone u wanted. U r not here to be the designated scapegoat, designated target.

What I see r mistakes on a current basis that infuriate me. In NYT yesterday or today … (looks for article)… storm victims reported feb 9 in NYT feb 10 in LAT. 10s for 1000s remain without trailers of 135,000 requests received, slightly more than half have been filled. Yesterday we were greeted with 100s of people pleading for help. Please give us a place over our heads. They’re not looking for jewels or trappings, they’re looking for means to exist. WHO IS RESPONSIBLE? We point at the WH. We sent out money not efficiently used, after your departure. When we look at this, the blame game is an easy game to play but a hard game to win. A lot of buck-passing,

Q: micheal heath, your assistant is reporting to u at 10:12 in the morning when the most severe point of storm’s attack was at 8:00. for the WH to deny they had clear reports is disingenuous. When did u have awareness that u sent to the WH?

A: WH notification: mon, aug 29, 10:00 I had written Andy Card. He had written me earlier that joe hagen had been keeping him informed. I had been telling him throughout the day. Early on Monday there were aware.
Housing: for 05 budget I requested 10 million $ for catastrophic events. Requested 80M$ for emergency response team. We were asking for those things never even presented to OMB because DHS took them.

[CornField]

71. Sen. John Warner (R-Virginia) is now questioning

[Norquist Nemesis]

82. He's Armed Services Chair, IIRC

Here comes the federalizing/martial law stuff.

[rodeodance]

84. W. talking of answers that b. felt he could not answer before now (now

is a private citizen).

[carolinalady]

75. I hate it when Brownie giggles-it makes him look like a twit.

[CornField]

83. Agreed -- this is a somber moment. People he was responsible for have died

This is not a time for jokes and merriment.

[Dunvegan]

88. Brown's a nervous twit, give em a Xanex and put a sock in the snickers

[PATRICK]

76. Finally Lautenberg

is getting AT the WH but a little too broadly, too late. Obviously the Dems are trying overall to get the goods by a good cop routine, just playing the role a bit too much. So much that Brown is having no problem getting comfortable with woeful dodges presuming Dems goodwill.

Brown is not really impressive, just that each party on the committee has a clear tack, bearly deviated from. A more aggressive, no holds barred mix would melt this guy like swiss cheese. A predictable, uncomfortable exercise with lots of relief.

In a better government representation from either party the deaths of thousands and the destruction of an American city might elicit a modicum of honest zeal. This is sickening unless you enjoy the feeble scraps of limited outrage and posing making the perp sweat a bit.

[Norquist Nemesis]

78. Collins: "Well, the WH might decide to assert ExecPrivilege

at some future time...just to be clear." :eyes:

[janx]

117. YES! They have to ask their questions NOW,

because Bushco will put the lid on Brownie again just as soon as he walks out of there!

[951-Riverside]

79. All he's doing is passing the buck

He was the head of FEMA if he REALLY wanted to help he could but instead he and his thugs prevented aid, cut communications and sat on their hands.

[CornField]

80. Ohhhh... now Collins tells us that the WH may decide to re-assert Exec. Pr

Executive Priviledge

[rodeodance]

92. well, we know he can do that. good reminder actually.

[Dunvegan]

81. Warner wants fuller hearing and longer inquiry!

[Norquist Nemesis]

86. See #82 above. n/t

[Norquist Nemesis]

90. "I wanted Active Duty forces"

:scared:

[Nothing Without Hope]

91. Exactly. They are setting this up to enable Bush to claim that

full militarization under his orders would fix the problem and keep everybody's puppies safe.

That's been their agenda all along, and Warner is just the toad to help them push it.

[dogday]

98. Yes, this runs a lot deeper than just

what we have seen and know about. These guys did something really wrong here. They need to take as much as need for this hearing....

[SoCalDem]

87. So.. the heads-up on the "12 questions" will allow the WH to

change their mind on the EP..:puke:.. JUST ask the questions NOW!! Dammit.. get him on the record and then let the WH stew in their juices.. Now they know that Brownie "will be asked...later" about those, and by then the WH will have plenty of time to figure out what they need to do to mitigate the damage..

:puke:

It's like a take home test.. Only an idiot gets the wrong answers on a take home

[LeftNYC]

89. Brownie would do better for himself

if he admitted some mistakes...and then blamed the White House...there is plenty to go around...

[CornField]

100. Hasn't he?

Wasn't that the big blow up between him and Coleman? Brown says he has admitted mistakes and taken blame for those.

I don't know exactly what people want him to do. He was incompetent and yet was still nominated and approved for this job. He was in well over his head and, most likely, being ignored by the rest because they *knew* he was incompetent. (Can't you just see the White House staff laughing their asses off about stupid Brown screaming the sky is falling? I know I sure can.)

Now, however, when it seems that the sky really was falling, they have to make the boy blunder the scapegoat to save their own sorry asses.

[LeftNYC]

107. true...listening with half ears as I am at work...nt

[dogday]

114. He is admitted his part in this, he says

he takes responsibilities for bad decisions, but was also hindered in things of which he had no control...

[Dunvegan]

93. Agreed...We've got him alive and talking RIGHT NOW...Get all we can today!

[LeftNYC]

94. Pres Bush's message to Brownie

let em drown, their black...

[Sydnie]

96. and they don't vote for us anyway n/t

[rodeodance]

97. now now.

[rodeodance]

102. Warner wants to know if B. is prepared to discuss memos now.

[LeftNYC]

103. Reality bites...nt

[Dunvegan]

99. Brownie vs. Warner the seasoned cookie...Step Lightly Here, Brownie...

[speedoo]

104. Warner's not that smart, IMO.

Plus, I don't think Brown is playing any games.

[malaise]

113. Karl Rove was there

Seize those state's rights - I can hear his contribution - this is good for the Rethugs
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[bettyellen]

105. what exception is he taking re: the pres? he can't comment now on that?

??? i missed something maybe?

[speedoo]

112. Yeah, I'm confused on that point also. nm

[Norquist Nemesis]

106. Aha! Rove was in the room.

There it is! Politics in the room.

[LeftNYC]

109. was he really? nt

[Connie_Corleone]

110. Brownie can't comment on what Bush said?? WTF?

[rodeodance]

116. think that would be hearsay

[rodeodance]

111. what room. when?

[Norquist Nemesis]

119. He was recalling who was in the room when they were discussing

how to federalize. Brownie wanted "active duty troops". Posse comitatus (sp) made things tricky. Hadley was taking notes. Rove was in the room.

[Dunvegan]

115. Finally...a Rove mention...in the room when Posse Comitatus was tossed up

[LeftNYC]

118. I missed this...can we get further details...? nt

[Dunvegan]

120. With Card and All discussing how to play Gov. Blanco for military control

[rodeodance]

damn, i am losing tract.

[rodeodance]

124. Who is asking questions now--middle aged man?

[dogday]

123. Of Course Rove would be there

he would love nothing better....

[malaise]

126. Most important news to date n/t

[Dunvegan]

130. Seems like Brown didn't want the Army: to bullyish, to heavy for civilians

[bettyellen]

121. why is he talking about what falls outside of privledge now?

[LeftNYC]

122. Brownie, I gotta go play guitar...why you bothering me? nt

[rodeodance]

129. Tues, Bush on vacation in Texas--Sen is reading an email.

[speedoo]

125. Dayton up now.

Talking about when WH knew about levee break.

[CornField]

127. Sen. Mark Dayton (D-Minn) questioning now

Discussing the chain of command and who was speaking with who

[Sydnie]

128. Thread 6 is UP!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=379649&mesg_id=379649

[ncrainbowgrrl]

131. locking- next thread here:

Here's thread #6

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x379649