Official Homeland Security Committee Brownie Bake – Thread 7

[Sydnie]

Thread 1

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=378137&mesg_id=378137

Thread 2

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=378593&mesg_id=378593

Thread 3

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=378909&mesg_id=378909

Thread 4

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=379113&mesg_id=379113

Thread 5
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=379372&mesg_id=379372

Thread 6
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=379649&mesg_id=379649

[rodeodance]

1. last Q-why did it take Fema so long to get buses to LA. B. does not know.

[rodeodance]

4. b. does not think military needs to be involved. but fema should replicate

what military does.

[rodeodance]

7. says military would be diluted in their mission.

[rodeodance]

10. says active military--would be slippery sloop. I agree.

[fooj]

2. He'd sit in his hotel room crying...

Was that before or after he actively searched for a dogsitter? Grrrrrrrrrrr...

Peace.

[Sydnie]

6. and checked his wardrobe and his dinner reservations

Good question. Wish they would ask that one!

[Catchawave]

9. Bush cronys don't cry...lol.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

25. Is this hearing an end run to do away with "Posse Comitatus?"

I keep hearing during this hearing that the military was ready to act, had the ability, leaders, plans, etc. but Posse Comitatus kept DHS and Brownie's hands tied. (Poor Babies!)This seems to be a theme the Repugs are obliquely referring to in their questions time and time again.

Is Command Chucklenuts thinking that having having "his" military unavailable domestically just a little too restrictive for the PNAC's, neocons' and the fruitcakes' plans?

There is already talk of doing away with the two term limit for the president and a king always needs a standing army to fight off insurgents within.

I'm just asking....

Carefully removing my tinfoil hat and placing it on a hat form for safe keeping.

[Nothing Without Hope]

34. They are LYING. READ THE DHS NATIONAL RESPONSE PLAN

Here is an analysis of some key parts. They - the Secretaries of Defense and DHS and Bush - ALREADY have the authority to take control in emergencies:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4668155

[klook]

63. I think I'll try that one if I totally f*ck something up at work.

"I was so upset about ignoring emergencies while making restaurant reservations that I spent all day yesterday in tears about it."

"I was so upset about a bunch of our customers dying due to my negligence that I was at home all day bawling my eyes out. And, by the way, that will be a paid sick day, won't it?"

Maybe they'll "ask me to resign" and then turn right around and offer me a lucrative consulting position! I mean, that's the way it works, right?

[CornField]

3. Back to Warner -- asking about military (of course)

[CornField]

8. Warner trying to get Brown to say military must be involved in such cases

Brown: You have to be careful because the military has a mission and you have to be careful about deluding that mission with all these other things.

[CornField]

11. Brown began slippery slope argument & Warner cut him off

[rodeodance]

111. yes, i heard that. Warner wants the active military involved in domestic

stuff such as this.

[CottonBear]

5. The picture of the troop carrier looks like it was taken in a third world

country not in the USA. :cry:

This hearing is so depressing. :(

[Sydnie]

12. It is sad, isn't it?

But, we need to remember what was going on while this guy was "crying in his room". At least he had a room. :(

[dogday]

13. Warner does not want to hear how this war

has affected our Soldier's capabilities to react quickly to these situations...

[rodeodance]

we forget and Brownie does also that there was an election-that is why

things went so so well for him in FL.

[Nothing Without Hope]

24. yes, Jebbie spared no effort to make sure he got rave reviews n/t

[porphyrian]

14. Are they trying to prove the military is the most capable...

...to deal with national disasters with this line of questioning?

[CornField]

15. It seems that's what Warner is trying to do.

[Cerridwen]

16. Yes.

That was exactly what he was trying to get him to say. The military should have been/should be in charge in cases of natural disaster.

[Nothing Without Hope]

19. That's what Bush & the neocon cabal wants - it's been their agenda

with the hurricanes from the start and Warner is the perfect toad to push it

[suffragette]

Yep and that reminded me that Warner was the one pushing that

right away. He's definitely still working that agenda.
Here's a link to and a quote from a USA Today article from last Sept. about that: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-09-18-katrina-military_x.htm

"Sen. John Warner, R-Va., head of the Armed Services Committee, wants to review that law to reconsider the role of troops in natural disasters."

Here's a link with more about it: http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2005/09/rumsfeld_to_kat.html


They didn't get that change then. Looks like they are still trying.

[Catchawave]

17. So why did it take DAYS to get food and water to those people?

That's the response question I want asked !

[Nothing Without Hope]

22. Days? They were still dying of dehydration WEEKS after the storm n/t

[flyarm]

18. does brownie not know that FAA was in charge of getting buses

FAA gave a contract to fla company with no previous business in this area..

and they made 200 million..and they called a limo company in NEW YORK!! 4 days after hurricane looking for buses????????

who tuned this over to FAA..why was it not still under fema?????

why was a contract given to jebbies friend who had no background in fema or getting fucking buses??????????

fly

[rodeodance]

20. hey, you be up in the Sen. chairs asking questions.

[gkhouston]

27. I'd love to have Mama Fly up there.

:popcorn: We'd get some answers, that's for sure.

[CornField]

21. Brown was saying he was stuck in Baton Rouge and asked DOT

to get the 500 buses. If that is true, why did DOT turn it over to FAA? How in the hell did it get to FAA?

[CottonBear]

23. Federal Aviation Administration? WTF? n/t

[flyarm]

28. no contract written long before katrina hit..Faa was put in charge when

homland security merged with fema..it was a pre-exisiting contract FAA wrote with jebbies buddy of a company that had no buses, no trucks...a shell company...a 200 million $$$ contract

[flyarm]

30. they were using fema money and flipping it alll over to give payola

to all their buddies..same as when the hurricanes hit fla the year before and payola was handed out to thousands and thousands in Miami ..for hurricane damage..to buy votes...only problem was..miami was never hit by any of the hurricanes!

[flyarm]

42. we here in clearwater were screaming to the country before 2004 election

that we were getting no repairs..no help ..but Miami was getting shit loads of fema money..

and no hurricane hit them!!

and we were ignored..we were screaming that it was buying votes!

so now we know jebbies buddie gets a 200 million contract for securing busses for any hurricane..when the company was a shell..with no experience in busses ..and they got the contract through FAA

that this shell company 4 days after katrina..calls a "LIMO " company in new york city looking for busses...

follow the money folks..who put the busses charge under FAA??

who wrote that order..who took the busses out of fema charge???????

who wrote the check to this fla shell company????????

fly

[Sydnie]

46. all questions we should find out the answers to n/t

[Nothing Without Hope]

47. The answers to those questions need to be found and exposed, Fly

There are rings within rings of scandals, cronies and limitless greed.

[fooj]

57. Limitless greed...

:cry:

[Nothing Without Hope]

64. ...and not even a vestige if a conscience

And this whole network has been knowingly nurtured and protected and fed upon by the government leaders and their cronies in the media and elsewhere. Conspiracy on a truly massive scale and utterly sickening in its soulless rapacity and arrogance.

:grr:

[gimama]

29. FAA(airport screeners/security!)always bug out 1st..

EVERY hurricane,last season People were stranded for weeks, that could have evac'd pre-landfall. Nobody ever asks why screeners aren't required to stay, at least till mandatory evacs are near completed.

[CornField]

26. Rhode: I do believe this was an incredible challenge. I would like to see

in addition to FEMA improvements, greater accountability in the national emergency management system. Greater roles and responsibilities between all levels of government and government agencies. Build a greater matrix of goals and deliverables.

[CornField]

31. Akaka -- Brown was named PFO the day after Katrina hit. Brown had to

relinquish his role as Head of FEMA. Rhode, when were you made aware that you were the acting Director of FEMA.

Rhode: I don't know that I've heard that.

Says he joined FEMA in April 2003 and left in Jan. 2006.

He was not aware that he was acting director.

Akaka -- According to the plan, Brown was no longer the director of FEMA.

(hmmm... that's interesting)

[CornField]

32. Rhode: I was not aware that I was the acting Director.

Why is Akaka hitting on this so hard?

[porphyrian]

33. Yeah, how do you not know that you're the acting director? - n/t

[displacedtexan]

35. He didn't get the "ping."

What's this freeper "ping" crap Brownie is talking about?

[Sydnie]

38. That is what I was wondering

I thought I heard him say that, thus my question right after your post.

[Norquist Nemesis]

39. My ears perked up on that one too!

Supposedly, it's a phone call. But, it's evidence of freakspeak.

[rodeodance]

77. tells me the decison was made high up and he was last to find out.

[porphyrian]

49. I've only heard "ping" used on submarines and in computer networking.

I think I've also heard it used with regards to instant messaging in a republican corporate setting as well.

[Skidmore]

81. I'm sorry, Could you elaborate on this?

I've missed a huge chunk of this because of a meeting.

[Sydnie]

36. What did he call phone calls? I missed that phrase n/t

[displacedtexan]

37. Pings? eom

[Dunvegan]

45. A "ping" is a "contact" via e-mail/phone/whatever

[CornField]

40. Brown: I was never second-guessed in Florida. During Katrina, I would

make a decision only to find out it had been over-ridden by someone else or not carried through.

[flyarm]

59. does anyone else have the fear i do that fema is going to be militarized?

is this the real reason for total failure during katrina and putting this boob brown in charge..to say..well civilians can't run fema we need to make fema military??

my palms are sweating..they wanted this total failure..they had to have this total failure to militarize fema!!

fly

[flyarm]

65. they want to lower the bar for taking military control of any disaster!

they want to make it easy to take control away from states and governors!! this is a set up!!

[Sydnie]

107. It did seem to get better when the General (was he a general?)

came in and took over. They sure seem to be connecting those dots fairly well. Right down to the managers of the local parishes saying that things were going better after they came in too.

[rodeodance]

79. hey Brownie. it went well in FL cause there was an election (remember)??

[CornField]

41. Hey... Hey... Dayton's back.

Isn't Coleman going to take his 2nd round?

[displacedtexan]

43. I don't now, but Brownie just implicated Hayden, Card, et al

Mon. afternoon, he messaged the WH Situation Room.

Thwack!

[CornField]

44. Brown: Just because it is in the NYT doesn't mean I believe it.

Brown goes back to his conversations with Card and "Deputy Chief of Staff" -- swears he spoke with them Monday afternoon to let them know it was definitely a breech.

Deputy Chief of Staff = Rove?

According to Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9308-2005Feb8.html
Rove is DCOS as of early 2005. But, they keep talking of Hagan in that post as well. I'm not sure who Brown was referring to.

[displacedtexan]

48. Hagen or Hayden? eom

[displacedtexan]

50. My mistake: WH Deputy COS Joe Hagen eom

[CornField]

51. I just edited, I got it wrong -- he didn't say name, said 'Deputy Chief'

[displacedtexan]

52. Did Rove think Brownie would be the target today?

Was this a major BushCo snafu?

[Nothing Without Hope]

54. I think the ultimate aim will still be to set up their calling for full

militarization of emergency response - power grab - and Warner's already been working on that angle. That's the plum, and they've been after it for a long time.

[Jeanette in FL]

61. I think you are right

I think that the Whitehouse gambled on the fact that Brownie was so humiliated and that the committee would take it from there and nail him to the cross. It surely went differently than I originally thought.

[BR_Parkway]

62. They didnt invoke priviledge, they thought the public would

automatically condemn Brownie to hell and they could use him to make their case for the military to be the prime takeover in emergencies.

Brownie turns the tables by

1. admitting mistakes, something so rare that it instantly boosts his credibility
2. keeps saying what we need to do as though he's still employed and invested in the mission - again boosting his credibility
3. backs up the points he makes about other's incompetence with documentation that contradicts some of the RW talking points

We were all so ready to jump on Brownie for him being an incompetent crony - and he did make mistakes - but we really never looked beyond to what it would be like to work in one of these incompetently run Depts that are run by Shrub's true loyalists. At least I didn't

[CornField]

53. Swearing in some others, but I lost CSPAN feed and can't say who it is

[woodsprite]

55. Broderick was sworn, and I'm not sure who the other one was. n/t

[Sydnie]

56. Robert Stephan asst homeland Sec. Secretary for infrastructure

protections and Matthew Broderick.

[CornField]

58. Dupe- LOL

[Roland99]

60. Why is a lacky like Brown being sworn in but the damn Att. General can't?!

[Sydnie]

66. Brown is now a private citizen and no long under the cover of

the WH. Gonzales still gets a paycheck so he is given latitude. I agree. Both should be sworn in. I don't ever remember hearing about a hearing where official testimony is given without swearing in the witnesses.

edit - typo

[Nothing Without Hope]

67. Because they felt safe from what Brown could/would say but

Gonzales does nothing but lie and knows where the bodies are buried. He cannot safely testify without perjury at this point.

[flyarm]

74. brown was kept out of the loop..he was not privy to the game the cons

were playing..he is a doofus ..they knew it and thats exactly why he was put in charge of fema..they want to totally militarize fema..and they needed a doofus ..they needed a total fuck up guy..

he fit their bill to a T

FLY

[flyarm]

68. what happens if a catasrophic earthquake in LA/SAN DIEGO < SAN FRAN

there is no week prior warning..

wow i see this so clear,.these fuckers want to take total power away from governors and states..they want to totally militarize disasters..

they want full power..and this is how they will take us into a complete police state!

[Roland99]

69. Posse Comitatus (like the Geneva Conventions) are now quaint, I reckon.

[Nothing Without Hope]

70. Exactly. And it's so clear that the DHS National Response Plan ALREADY

gives full emergency powers to the Secretaries of Defense and Homeland Security under the President's orders.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4668155

So not only do they ALREADY have all the power they could need to respond to disasters, they totally, utterly f**d it up and thousands died. And yes, I know the "official" total is still less, but it is thousands.

[flyarm]

73. thisb was all done on purpose..it was their final test for a police state!

[Nothing Without Hope]

83. The "enabling event" they had been waiting for, since it was a long time

since 9/11. And it had been predicted in the study reported in 2001 = most likely three US catastrophic events: NY terrorist attack, SF earthquake, and New Orleans hurricane.

No wonder Bush was grinning while he was playing that guitar and playing to the crowd. Even at the time DU people were commenting on how he looked like the cat that ate the canary and wondering why. I commented that myself and I recall others responding with a similar view. Coronation Day!

[flyarm]

109. yes they knew they could not perform another 9/11 event..

remember at the time the general who was being punished for an affair..they knew a military coup was being prepared..they knew how?? nsa tapping!

they were supposed to do a nuc test in the carolinas..they caught the generals planning a coup of this white house..they knew they needed Katrina..they wanted to take LA state control away from Blanco..

but someone on our side was giving Blanco advice ..i said at the time, it was B.Clinton..and thats why Clinton got james lee witt down to her pronto before the hurricane..witt helped Blanco write the emergency request to bush..Clinton knew this was happening..
and we wonder why he is so close to papa??

do not ever underestimate Clinton...he knew..he is like glue with James lee Witt..they worked like a fine violin in LA during earthquake,...
they were each others ying and yang..

i said the minute Witt went into LA ..clinton was behind that..clinton knew..he knew..what was going down...

fly

[Sydnie]

76. and didn't they just change the chain of command should the

pResident and the VP be unable to respond (as in incapacitated or death?) Wasn't HLS moved up on the list?

[flyarm]

95. yep!! ..and it also moved t. delay up! n/t

[flyarm]

72. and where would be the most important places..why NY and CALIF..

the two states where people are progressive ..where they would fight back the hardest..the rest of the south and mid west would be easy...but the independant thinking people..they would be the toughest to control..

this was all a set up for what is to come..

this admin would not "let " fema work..they made sure Fema didn't work...

they blackmailed Blankco to take military control..

this was all a big test..
there was nothing in this that was a mistake..

i lived through the northridge earthquake in Sherman Oaks calif..i lost my home as did all my neighbors...Fema worked like clock work..it was organized..it was under control..Clinton was on top of all of it..it was a well oiled machine...

Katrina was used by these mother fuckers..to test taking over this country with military

this was testing the behaviour of americans and governors..and of congress...

i am sick...

fly

[Nothing Without Hope]

75. That's how I see it too:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4790112
thread title (Sept 16 2005): Missing A KEY POINT in *'s speech: POWER GRAB FOR POTUS AND MILITARY
including the posts throughout the thread

and it's still clear today:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x377040
thread title (2-10-06 GD): NYT: WH knew early about levee breaks - and BUSH POWER GRAB ALERT!

The system must really select for sociopathic swine, because they are running this country as their private sty.

[flyarm]

90. YES ITS HOW I WAS SEEING IT AT THE TIME TOO.. and i know

you ..our dear nothing without hope saw it then as well..

but watching this baffon brown i was mesmerized.,.i saw it like the writing on the wall..and fucking Warner is in on it..i watch body language..i watch shit others don't see..and it was so clear today..they are sucking the people in..they are sucking those who do not want to believe their government is nefarious ..and evil..they are sucking all the innocents in..
i don't believe even some of the congress people get it..

even they are naive to what is happening..

hitler rove has to be sitting in his frankenstien lab laughing at it all..
laughing at how congress people are being sucked in..and the masses of americans are being sucked in...

can't you see his evil chuckle???????

nwh..you were on this from the get go..and so was i but this only confirmed what we saw and what we felt in our guts..and what we knew was going on!!

glad you are on my side!!

fly

[Nothing Without Hope]

114. You know, I tried to post on this earlier than that thread I just gave,

but it was VANISHED (totally gone, not locked) from DU as soon as it hit the Greatest Page in less than 5 minutes. The "conspiracy theory" that the WH might actually be trying to use the Katrina horror as an enabling event to grab more power and militarize all emergency response - including anything they want to call an emergency, like putting down dissent - was just too, too kooky for them. I was so terribly frustrated, because I could see it happening and I couldn't post. FINALLY a thread was allowed to stay up and it's the one I showed you:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4790112

And yes, the using up of the National Guard in foreign countries is part of it too. The WH claims that it made no difference to the Katrina relief response, but of course it DID and a study showed it:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1822336

It's all to grease the skids to a police state.

I'm glad you're on my side, Fly :hug:

[CornField]

71. This guy is worse than some of my college professors

His endless drone is putting me to sleep... I can't even make sense of what he's saying anymore

[ralps]

86. Stephan & Broderick are trying to put all the blame on Brownie

[Sydnie]

78. Is Broderick trying to say that they weren't clear what was needed

until the military got involved?

[rodeodance]

80. he said he was a former military-lots of years (talks like it also).

[rodeodance]

82. plan in effct april 15, 2005 signed by cherkoff. The big nat. plan.

[rodeodance]

84. Stephan slamming brownie now (recall this is Chertoff's man talking)

[rodeodance]

85. rule 1---Brownie was to keep Chertoff informed (and brownie said he

did not cause he did not see chertoff doing what was asked).

[rodeodance]

87. oh oh: 'poor personal relationship with chertoff"--browie did not do his

duty.

[rodeodance]

88. Why didn't the dummies turn on the TV-to learn that levies were broke.

[Nothing Without Hope]

89. This one - and it gives clear authority to Secretaries of Defense, DHS

and Bush at the top:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4668155

And they have been doing their best to pretend it doesn't exist, and also that Chertoff didn't delay making the key triggering declaration for DAYS:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4777642

[rodeodance]

98. dhs was shuffling paper-waiting for a chain of command. geech.

And they have been doing their best to pretend it doesn't exist, and also that Chertoff didn't delay making the key triggering declaration for DAYS:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[rodeodance]

91. Broderick should have tuned on TV to watch the water come in.

[rodeodance]

92. hey dummy==when you hear water is over rooftops--get a clue!

[rodeodance]

94. I can't believe this conversation!!

[CornField]

93. I was thinking the same damn thing

I was more informed by watching CNN and MSNBC

[rodeodance]

96. so, cause chertoff did not 'official' word!!==paper watchers that was what

was going on.

[CornField]

97. Collins: Who was on the ground and supposed to communicate

information to you.

Broderick: At that time it was Brown... under secretary Brown.
...

Juniors have a responsibility to keep their seniors informed. We were not getting that information.

[Nothing Without Hope]

101. So Chertoff told Brown to stay in Baton Rouge and didn't listen to any of

the desperate messages, let alone watch any TV - but it's all BROWN's fault?

[CornField]

103. Depends on which cronie you wish to believe, I guess.

[rodeodance]

105. these two guys up now are there to back up Chertoff-just remember that.

[rodeodance]

102. this is when Collins should have said-did you turn on the TV?

[951-Riverside]

99. So these twits were only watching the french quarter?

[CornField]

100. Collins: Did any FEMA reports get related to you?

Broderick: Not from Mr. Brown. We were getting reports from other agencies but not from Brown.

...

They were drinking and dancing and carrying on in the French Quarter (Monday) evening. It looked like they were having a party. We thought everything was okay.

[Nothing Without Hope]

104. This is the old WH spin and IT IS A LIE:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x377040
thread title (2-10-06 GD): NYT: WH knew early about levee breaks - and BUSH POWER GRAB ALERT!

[CornField]

106. Just reporting what's being said in hearing -- not saying it is a fact

Didn't mean to imply I was giving these statements validity, just putting them out there because they are in direct contrast as to what we've already heard.

[rodeodance]

108. Broderrick clearly laying it on Brown (response to Joe L.)

[speedoo]

110. Lieberman asking Broderick tough questions.

Why no plan, given the briefings from Brown, warnings from weather guys etc.

Broderick says Brown was in the field, with assets, and so he was responsible. Lieberman says actually Brown did not have assets. Huh?

[rodeodance]

113. brown had little assets--was locally dependant for much.

[Sydnie]

112. Thread 8 is UP!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=380826&mesg_id=380826

[Parrcrow]

115. please go to thread #8

on this subject

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x380826