Italian Judge Tosses Case of Atheist Vs. Priest (Jeebus didn't exist)

[stopbush]

ROME - An Italian judge has dismissed an atheist's petition that a small-town priest should stand trial for asserting that Jesus Christ existed, both sides said on Friday.

Luigi Cascioli, a 72-year-old retired agronomist, had accused the Rev. Enrico Righi of violating two laws with the assertion, which he called a deceptive fable propagated by the Roman Catholic Church.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060210/ap_on_re_eu/italy_did_jesus_exist

I like this:
"Righi wrote in a parish bulletin that Jesus existed, that he was born to a couple named Mary and Joseph in Bethlehem and that he lived in Nazareth. Righi, 76, said substantial historical evidence proves Jesus' existence."

Of course, the village of Nazareth didn't even exist in the first century AD. And there is absolutely NO historical evidence to prove that Jesus existed.

The power of myth on full display.

[Greyhound]

1. Warning! Danger Will Robinson, Danger! Don't poke the bear! n/t

[tatertop]

2. In two thousand years some will claim Flavor Flav didn't exist!

Thank Flav I won't be alive to see that!
By that time I will be sitting at the right
appendage of TFSM, drinking beer.

[KyuzoGator]

6. I worship at the Altar of Terminator X, personally.

He was the real Savior.

[Perky]

3. I'd like to get your take on this article

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1067930,00.html

Apparently a few years ago...Archaelogist found a Roman Bath house dating ffo the 1st Century. The imoplication is at least that is was a Roman Garrison town at the time of Jesus's birth.

This is not offered to dispute your claims about Jesus, but rather to challenge your strawman argument about Nazareth.

[papau]

5. Please do not confuse the issue with facts. :-)

:-)

[papau]

4. Source for"village of Nazareth didn't even exist in the first century AD"?

Seems most of the world disagrees with you - not that you lie or that even that you are wrong -just interesting that the scientists do not agree with your statement -"The pottery remains testify to a continuous settlement during the period 600-900 BCE. After those years, there was a break in settlement until the year 200 BCE. Since then, the site of Nazareth has been consistently inhabited."

http://www.inisrael.com/tour/nazareth/history.htm

The Importance of Nazareth in the Christian Tradition

Nazareth was a small and insignificant village during the period of Jesus. While the site was settled during the period 600-900 BCE, it was too small to be included in the list of settlements of the tribe of Zebulon (Joshua 19:10-16), which mentions twelve towns and six villages. Nazareth is not included among the 45 cities of the Galilee that were mentioned by Josephus, and her name is missing from the 63 towns in Galilee mentioned in the Talmud.It seems that the words of Nathanel of Cana, "Can anything good come out of Nazareth?" (John 1:47) characterized the site's seeming insignificance. It is needless to say that the people of Judea had never heard of Nazareth.
And from this we understand the reason that Pontius Pilate decorates the cross with the sign "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews" (John 19:19) - meaning that the "King of the Jews" is from "nowhere." The early name "Nazarenes" given to the Christians might have been a derogatory nickname that the people of Judea gave to the followers of Jesus (Matthew 26:71, Acts 6:38). Jesus was known throughout the Galilee as "Jesus of Nazareth" (Matthew 21:11 , Mark 14:67) - but for those not from the Galilee, this name had no meaning for them. In order to explain where Nazareth was located, the Galileans had to explain that the village was near Gat-Hyefer (Jonah's hometown,Kings II 14:25), which could be seen from Nazareth. Archeological excavations conducted in Nazareth (by Bagati since 1955) show that Nazareth was a small agricultural village settled by a few dozen families.
The pottery remains testify to a continuous settlement during the period 600-900 BCE. After those years, there was a break in settlement until the year 200 BCE.

Since then, the site of Nazareth has been consistently inhabited. Most of the archeological finds consist of caves, cisterns and grain storage bins. The agricultural character of the site is made obvious with the discoveries of oil mills and mill stones. There were a large number of underground rooms because the soft chalk of Nazareth made it easy to hew caves.
Nazareth is located between the open space of the Jezreel valley and the mountainous regions of the Galilee. The valley and its history were well known to the Jews of Nazareth in the time of Jesus.During the first 20 years of his life that he spent in Nazareth, Jesus had many an opportunity to walk on the mountain ranges, to look over and think about the history of his people. The great battles that had taken place in the valley, together with the great hopes that were dashed with their losses, must have affected and shaped his view on life. The valley of Jezreel, as it is seen from Nazareth, is a natural battlefield. This fact must have influenced the idea of "...all the holders of swords shall fall by the sword," (Matthew 28:52). Another geographical area adjacent to Nazareth was the lower Galilee and the Beti Netofa valley.

In this region there were many small Jewish villages and towns settled by Hellenized Syrians. The largest of these towns was Tzippori, the capital of the Galilee until the year 18 BCE. Even though Tzippori is a 45- minute-walk from Nazareth, the town is not mentioned in the New Testament. The main events in Jesus's life, as described in the New Testament, are the annunciation of his birth (Luke 1:26-38),his childhood and early manhood (Luke 2:39-52, Matthew 2:19-23), and the clash with his fellow citizens (Matthew 13:54-58, Luke 4:17-30). From the very first events relating to the life of Jesus in Nazareth, we learn that the people of his village did not approve of his thinking and behavior. To them he was Jesus, one of the sons of Joseph the carpenter (the other brothers were James, Joseph, Simeon and Judah - Matthew 13:55). Luke describes with great drama how Jesus was rejected by the people of Nazareth. After his sermon in the synagogue aroused their anger, the people took him "and brought him to the precipice of the mountain that their city was built upon" (Luke 4). Some have pointed out that this sentence in Luke is not correct, as Nazareth is built in a valley and not on a mountain. But the valley of Nazareth is on a mountain overlooking the Jezreel valley - and the mountain of the precipice overlooks the valley of Nazaret and the valley of Jezreel.<skip>
========================================================
From the Arab side of the discussion:
http://www.nazarethinfo.org/

The Name:

Since first known in the historic records its name was never changed and is still Nazareth and by origin its a hebrew name (Nazer). There weren't any organized population in the days of christ nor anywhere in the holly land until the destruction of Jerusalem and any city of this kind was bound to have a local courthouse and people from close villages would come every tuesday and Thursday to solve their problems and legal issues.

The Birth:

Nazareth is an old city dipping its roots in the unknowns of the history, its one of the oldest places where humanity found towns.

We stand helpless to determine the exact time when the first settlement was found in nazareth, since historical studies cant give clear answers. nevertheless a clue was found which shows that there was a human society at the days of the stone age which started a million years bc and ended thirty thousand years bc and this clue is 'Magharat el Kafze' Kafze cave.

Since two million year ago, Around the old stone age man started appearing with all its kinds and types, and those mentioned started connecting and binding and starting a primeval society building villages and settlements which some grew into towns, this was the start of the old cities.

The history of these cities and its birth is still unknown and historic studies lacks the evidence and the information that could enlighten the existing darkness of those times nevertheless its obvious that (Nazareth has been continuously occupied since 200 BCE).

[politicaholic]

7. I just have a couple of questions...

Is there any non-christian source documenting the existence of Jesus?

Regardless of the fact that these places actually existed, which is pretty hard to deny, is there any actual evidence that Jesus existed other than the writings of people who wrote their verses decades and beyond the supposed death "the son of god"?

[Richard Steele]

10. A few Roman documents are generally accepted as referring to him.

1: Tacitus
Cornelius Tacitus was a Roman Historian who lived c.55-A.D. c.117. He writes of "Christus" in his ANNALS Book XV, Chapter 44:

"Nero looked around for a scapegoat, and inflicted the most fiendish tortures on a group of persons already hated by the people for their crimes. This was the sect known as Christians. Their founder, one Christus, had been put to death by the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius. This checked the abominable superstition for a while, but it broke out again and spread, not merely through Judea, where it originated, but even to Rome itself, the great reservoir and collecting ground for every kind of depravity and filth."


2: Pliny The Younger was Governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor, in about 112 A.D. He wrote to the emperor Trajan, in Epistles X.96, about the dedication of Christians whom he had been persecuting. He had:
"...made them curse Christ, which a genuine Christian cannot be induced to do."

In the same letter he describes the trials of Christians who had been arrested:
"They affirmed, however, that the whole of their guilt, or their errors was, that they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verse a hymn to Christ as to a god, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falsify their word, not to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up."

3: Seutonius
Seutonius was a court official and annalist under Hadrian around 120 A.D., who wrote:
"As the Jews were making constant disturbance at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from Rome." Life of Claudius, 25.4

[Donald Ian Rankin]

12. Ish.

There's a paragraph in the works of Josephus, a first-century AD Jewish historian;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus details it. It suggests its authenticity is dubious, but I believe it's usually accepted as valid (correctly or not I don't know).

I don't believe there are any surviving contemporary accounts of his life, either Christian or not, although I may be wrong; the Gospels are generally believed to have been written some time after his death, although there are rumoured to have been earlier ones, now lost.

[pocket]

8. Now you're messing with a

son of a bitch

[KyuzoGator]

9. Hey...love hurts, man. nt

[patcox2]

11. The judge ruled against the atheist.

the court did not rule that jesus didn't exist. Can anyone read?

[bobthedrummer]

13. You are incorrect stopbush eom.