KATRINA was LIHOP

[burythehatchet]

I've listened to the entire hearings so far, and the only possible conclusion I can draw is that they LIHOP. I get the same exact sick feeling in the pit of my stomach as I did about 9/11. People in key positions, like Chertoff, were ordered to stand down. What the hell is the motive? Damn these bastards to hell.

[pitohui]

1. the motive is obvious

new orleans is a hugely democratic city, and orleans parish overwhelmingly democratic parish

state of louisiana also has a charismatic young democratic senator, mary landrieu, and a new democratic governor, blanco

therefore the motive was to make the democrats look bad by not providing the aid that is normally provided in advance of hurricanes and was provided in florida on several recent occasions

this is a decades old republican strategy, as i remembering being taught about it in high school, and i am not a young lady, cities tend to be democratic, therefore republican policy is to starve cities of federal help and money

it isn't a one-time special thing for katrina, it is ongoing GOP policy, they want all of our cities hollowed-out and dead or ghetto-ized

[Jara sang]

30. Criminal negligence

[RazzleDazzle]

40. it wasn't just to make Dems look bad

It was, in fact, far more sinister than that, with what you propose as an added benefit -- tho they'd not have done it to a Republican mayor and governor. It was another power grab with social experiment, seeing if they could get those trapped victims, the ones without water and food, to riot so they could impose martial law and thus dispense with Posee Commitatus once and for all.

You may recall that one of the first things Bush said, when he finally did start commenting, was that one of his main concerns is sorting out the chain of authority for federal, state and local govts. That was more important to him than anything else. Happily, nothing's come of that "concern" of his just yet, but if/when it does, it will be in the form of vastly more enhanced federal power.

Also remember that around midnight Friday (and Friday was the first day SOME help started dribbling in, before Bush's photo op appeareances on Saturday), the Bush administration tried to force Gov Blanco to cede control to the feds. She and her advisors spent hours thru the night talking it over and she finally said no, wisely, because that seemed to them like it would be de facto martial law. It seems to me, no expert or lawyer, the same. I think she's a hero just for that. It couldn't have been easy telling the Bush administration to go stuff it.

[burythehatchet]

43. and as I recall the disdain between Blanco

and shrub was palpable.

[Atman]

52. Once Brownie started talking about Posse Commitatus, I knew...

This guy knows horses. Why the hell would he have been part of any Posse Commitatus discussion? I agree completely...this was regular GOP policy, but I don't think these guys really understood the magnitude of what they were dealing with. This was a historic hurricane, but they were relying on history to set policy.

[TripleD]

59. here's a WP story on that

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html

Many Evacuated, but Thousands Still Waiting
White House Shifts Blame to State and Local Officials

By Manuel Roig-Franzia and Spencer Hsu
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, September 4, 2005; Page A01

//

Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.

A senior administration official said that Bush has clear legal authority to federalize National Guard units to quell civil disturbances under the Insurrection Act and will continue to try to unify the chains of command that are split among the president, the Louisiana governor and the New Orleans mayor.

//

[Nothing Without Hope]

45. Other motives: enabling event for POTUS power grab (destroying Posse

Comitatus), lots of money to cronies in reconstruction deals, opening up land for valuable new real estate projects like casinos, and getting rid of the people who were in the way.

[fooj]

2. Yep. Strumming away on a guitar and sharing cake with McCain

proves that!

Peace.

[burythehatchet]

3. Did you see Dayton's questioning?

That's when it hit me like a freight train.

Cheney on vacation

Condi buying shoes

Was Rummy in Europe?

[TheUnspeakable]

35. Dayton was the only one to question 9/11

I missed the Katrina hearing, but I always admired him for standing up for 9/11
(of course, shortly after he did this he had to pull his whole staff out of DC due to
some kind of terrorist threat, and then was made fun of and called a pussy by the repigs.)
Needless to say, he announced a while back that he won't be running in '06.

Dayton: FAA, NORAD hid 9/11 failures

By Greg Gordon, Star Tribune Washington Bureau Correspondent

July 31, 2004

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Sen. Mark Dayton, D-Minn., charged Friday that the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) have covered up "catastrophic failures" that left the nation vulnerable during the Sept. 11 hijackings.

"For almost three years now, NORAD officials and FAA officials have been able to hide their critical failures that left this country defenseless during two of the worst hours in our history," Dayton declared during a Senate Governmental Affairs Committee hearing.

(snip)Dayton said NORAD officials "lied to the American people, they lied to Congress and they lied to your 9/11 commission to create a false impression of competence, communication and protection of the American people." He told Kean and Hamilton that if the commission's report is correct, President Bush "should fire whoever at FAA, at NORAD ... betrayed their public trust by not telling us the truth
<http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20040731213239607>

[Nothing Without Hope]

47. The Bushies made the head of NORAD on 9/11 the head of the newly

organized NorthCom in 2002. Quite a reward when one would have expected a court martial One of the stated missions of NorthCom is to administer martial law in the US if the President calls for it. Clearly, they wanted a "team player."

[SammyWinstonJack]

4. Yes it was. And Hell is too good for these bastards!

[raysr]

5. Run out all the blacks,

turn it into a theme park and turn it red with money.

[applegrove]

6. Cheney demonstrated with his phone calls to untilities to send power

to oil refineries - that he was at least near a phone and aware of the power of a few phone calls.

[Sydnie]

7. He not only called he went there to make sure it was done right away

I remember seeing the pictures of him doing it. Then, he disappeared to finish closing on his house in Maryland.

If they wanted to hide out, the should have stayed out of the damn public eye because you can't justify the things they were doing instead of responding to the people who were dieing in NOLA.

They make me :puke:

[jbnow]

50. cheney's talk there on 9/10

had the odd phrase that "the Katrina exercise"
It was “I think we are in fact on our way to getting on top of the whole Katrina exercise."

Worked out almost perfectly, did it? Darn, if only they had rioted after we provoked them so long we could have had Posse Comitatus. Then it would have been the perfect exercise?

[Lars39]

8. I sat at my computer for at least a full week watching them LIHOP.

And came to the conclusion that it was genocide.
At a certain point LIHOP blurs into MIHOP. Passive versus aggressive.

[applegrove]

61. Turns out FEMA or WH didn't ask for defense department's help

till Wednesday. It is actually context why Defence told CNN "why aren't you feeling sorry for us - we just had this dumped on us" (vs. people of New Orleans) - mid week.

Disgusting. WH knew Monday night. Bush & those he surrounds himself with care more about their stock portfolios than the people of their country.

[Klukie]

9. I think the motives are ego and power struggles

I don't think Chertoff was ordered to stand down, I think he did that all on his own. It looked to me that Brownie was highly pissed that FEMA no longer had a direct link to the man. I also think he hates the crap out of Chertoff. I propose that he purposely tried to circumvent DHS at the cost of many innocent lives. I will also say that even worse than his actions were the actions of his superiors (chertoff) to allow him to do it. I don't think * was even aware of it. I truly think that the government is being run by all of these incompetent assholes while * is off strumming his guitar somewhere.

[Nutmegger]

10. What's interesting is that FEMA was in Florida in a jiffy

when Charlie struck. And this was right before the '04 elections. :tinfoilhat:

[pitohui]

11. see post #1

the republican abandonment of the cities is nothing new, see under detroit, it is policy, has been for decades

andrew, which was headed for miami but actually struck homestead at the last moment, was before an election also, and bush 1 could not be troubled to help miami in advance or provide sufficient aid to andrew victims, some say this is why clinton was elected in 92

[burythehatchet]

12. oh yeah, handing out checks to voters

with no verification of their claims

[seabeyond]

13. a little more than lihop i think. i think they may have done the levees

to stop flooding into nice neighborhoods and they actively denied help which take it beyond just lettting it happen or ignore, for me

[burythehatchet]

14. I would like to see more evidence of that

though I am comletely convinced they are capable of it.

[seabeyond]

17. evidence isnt there yet from what i see. why i put "i think"and

"may of done" lol. a lot different wording then when i can prove. a lot of the people in that area immediately testified to hearing explosions. have happened in the past, and only way to save the money areas cause the water was coming.

possibly, lol lol it will come out in time.

[pitohui]

19. there can't be evidence of lies

please come to new orleans and see for yourself

come to lakeview and drive thru that area for mile after mile and then get back to me and tell me straight-faced how the millionaires were spared, they lost everything, like everybody else

conspiracy-mongering from a great distance away, based on what is clearly lies, is not productive and it is in fact hurtful

rich and poor, black and white, all were harmed by this storm and the failures of the us army corp of engineers

we have real problems, and i am starting to become deeply suspicious of those who would create dis-unity, based on lies, rather than offering real solutions

if you want to help, demand accountability from fema and the us corp of army engineers and the bush administration which is based on patronage

do not pretend that only poor people, or that only black people, lost their homes, friends, and family, it is insulting and i believe it is deliberately divisive, progressives should know better than to allow themselves to be played like this

[burythehatchet]

21. I think you need to check you fake outrage at the door.

[seabeyond]

24. and i can certainly agree with you on the point you make on this post

thank you. i will keep this in mind. equally i wont dismiss what i have heard from the people tat are actually there. and have spoken out.

ultimately though to suggest we are shifting blame away from fema and bush is absurd. this post is all about how we feel they warrant the blame. regardless what happened to those levees, the help didnt come, the help was refused the help was turned away....

[Swamp Rat]

25. Yes, my friends lost their homes in Lakeview, though none of them are

millionaires. Most folks in that area are middle income. There are a few wealthy people, but their homes were situated in the highest areas. Most of the wealthy families in the region are located in the Audubon area and Old Metairie.

But you are right. WE NEED HELP! ... not divisive and uninformed rhetoric.

[RaleighNCDUer]

29. OTOH, who can more easily afford to come back and rebuild?

The millionaire or the fry-cook?

Equal flooding in rich and poor neighborhoods is not equal in effect. And, simply based on population demographics, more poor and black were hurt than rich and white. It would be silly to claim otherwise.

[stickdog]

62. What do you think of the original poster's contention?

Why did Bush, FEMA and Homeland Security let NO turn into the avoidable homicide hole that it became?

[The Flaming Red Head]

66. actually I'm on my way there to rescue my son

seems a contractor promised my son and his friend a job. (both kids are 18 and 19 and originally from S. Louisiana) The contractor told them he would provide housing, meals, and a good paycheck.

Once he got them down there they were stranded and at the mercy of the contractor, and they found out that their housing was a tent in an abandoned house without a roof, plumbing or electricity, the great pay is barely minimum wage ( 12 an hour was the promise) and he hasn't been paying them regularly.

They've both been hungry, cold, and miserable.

The worst happened 2 days ago, though when this burly 40 something job foreman, who was apparently strung out on xannax and beer walked up behind my son and hit him the back of the head as hard as he could. Seems he wasn't happy with the job he was doing. This was done unexpectedly and from behind while my son was working, and clearing debris in the hot sun without even any safety goggles or any protective gear.

If you hear about a crazy redheaded woman going off on a New Orleans contractor that just might be me.

I'm not even sure if New Orleans and Louisiana is part of the US or some third world country, now judging by the way they're treating all the people down.

[burythehatchet]

69. How horrible. Please be careful and I hope your sons are OK

This really is just like Iraq. Unfortunately, the lure of good monry draws people in but the only ones who are making money are the scum who get the FEMA contracts because they have a crony in place. This is just unspeakable horror. Now I understand what Mary Landrieu was saying when she was pleading to just get FEMA out of there.

[Stephanie]

71. this is exactly what's happened with the World Trade Center

People watch a 3" video via the internet and claim that they have more knowledge of what happened that day than the many thousands of people who were downtown and saw it with their own eyes.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pitohui]

18. you're clearly not from new orleans are you

the nicest area, lakeview, was completely destroyed

i think i have told you this before, but spreading lies and conspiracy theories does great harm to victims, so knock it off, please

[seabeyond]

23. no you have never told me. nope you didnt convince me with this

:hi:

and nope, i wont knock it off.

i had a man sit next to me last night at a repug state rep fundraiser who lived there and went to tulane, tell us that the 9 district? that flooded was cause no didnt use there money to fix the levies and why they didnt flood on the other side was casue the white folks used their taxes to keep the levies up to date. and that it was a good hting the poor community got flooded out because they were the worst of our society and this was all a good thing. just cause you live there doesnt mean i will believe. i also listened to a lot of people that were in that area say they heard explosion. they were saying it immediately, during and after and to this day.

i guess what you are really saying is i know nothing because i dont live there, listen to you cause you do? not that i would know because you disabled profile, and to ignore all the others that live there and are telling a different story than you

just doesnt work telling any of us dems on this board to shut up. we just wont. repug and media and the religious have been telling us for to long to shut up, and we wont

[Swamp Rat]

27. We never had enough money to fix the levees in the first place.

Thanks to Bush, the funding was cut in 2004 by over 70%.

[stickdog]

63. It's funny that you keep saying this because my NO friends tell

me that you can count the million dollar homes destroyed on two hands while the least expensive homes are basically devastated.

[RaleighNCDUer]

26. In another thread, someone mentioned that the only levees that

'failed' were ones that had been uprgraded recently.

That seems sort of curious.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

33. things are bad enough without adding false accustions.

[seabeyond]

57. oh ya, that is right. trust bush..... ask nothing. just trust bush.,

question not. listen to no differing of opinion

trust..... bush

who is to know. the question is out there. why are you opposed to questioning bush? btw, when an orginization actively denies help to people, telling htose that want to help, they cannot, that is not just letting thing fall apart or being inept. these are facts


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=381143&mesg_id=382662

[Nothing Without Hope]

53. Reports of this were made, and there were also interviews of people:

who say they heard an explosion around the time the flooding started:

http://www.halturnershow.com/DiversFindExplosiveResidueOnRupturedLevy.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1778478

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x107893

I don't know what to make of this. I am not ruling out the possibility that they may have blown the levee when it didn't break fast enough for them. There are a lot of people who believe it passionately and always will. But I just don't know. I don't doubt that the people are telling the truth, but could something else have caused the sound? So I remain open-minded on this one - I wouldn't be surprised at all if those levees were blown. Even apart from the possibility of the feds doing it, there is a long world history of people breaching OTHER people's levees on flooding rivers to ease pressure on their own along the same river.

So I consider it possible and quite plausible but unproven. But the evidence for LIHOP is conclusive.

[seabeyond]

58. i obviously wrote post that it was just an opinion, that it is not fact

that the question is there. i am surprised by post that say,..... bad, bAd. i agree iwth your post, and the delicate way you expressed who is to know, this is out there.

yes lihop is conclusive.

why is my post a big deal, i wonder

[mattclearing]

15. Duh. I thought we all knew this. n/t

[DoYouEverWonder]

16. Actually Katrina was a FLOP

[pitohui]

20. flop, i like that

he's definitely a flop, too busy getting the $$$ from handing out the patronage jobs to get around to doing his own job

why isn't selling jobs to obviously unqualified individuals like drownie brownie a federal offense?

didn't it used to be a crime?

[earth mom]

22. I knew that almost from day one.

But it's good that your eyes have been opened. Wonder how many more see the truth? I hope millions! That's the only way the evil bastards in office are gonna get kicked out-when the people en masse vote em out!

[Swamp Rat]

28. At minimum it was LIHOP

[Nothing Without Hope]

56. Good one, Swampy. Here are my two favorite Katrina editorial cartoons:

From Tom Oliphant, showing Bush's blatantly choreographed "concern":



and from Steve Bell in the UK, showing what the whole world saw:



But I really can't omit these two from Tom Tomorrow, which do bear on the current topic:

[iconoclastNYC]

31. They were too busy trying to steer business to thier crony contractors

To actually attend to people's needs.

[pinto]

32. Sounds like a bunch of bureaucratic sycophants more concerned with

who had the line to the White House than what was happening in New Orleans.

Like a Byzantine palace, Bushco has made secrecy, back door access, multiple lines of communications, internal mistrust and official silence and misdirection a function of their basic operation.

It's important that you can get Andy Card on the phone - the rest is actually beside the point.

[Emit]

34. I followed it early on --

I was at home with a broken leg (broke it shortly after the hurricane hit) and, having family in NO, I was intensely interested in what the hell was going on down there. I started following as much of the news as I could, and, again, piecing things together along side many here on DU who were working diligently to get the real story behind the facade of the MSM. I posted some about it on PBS at the time:

http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=36299&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=posse+comitatus&topic_view=flat&start=0&sid=95383415ef93337b6f8f78fe30e45528

IMHO, it was LIHOP.



Here's one of my old posts over at PBS:

Perhaps Katrina was convenient for Bush & Co -- Their second 'new Pearl Harbor' `a la PNAC style. Let's see how many more civil liberties get eroded following Katrina. They're already confiscating the guns. Where's the NRA?

The immediate and long-term implications of this are significant. This is crazy stuff happening here.

Bush & Co. Profiteering off of death and destruction.

http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=37187&highlight=katrina

And, it became pretty obvious that this was a move on Bush & Co.'s part to use this disaster (a disaster they purposeful ignored -- thus having a hand in its creation really -- in order to use it more to their advantage) to gain further control of our liberties

Also, of importance to note, is the issue of Blanco and the National Guard. As best I can gather, the (mis)administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html

If the governor had ceded control, the National Guard could no longer do policing duties because they would then come under Posse Comitatus and she needed them to do policing duties as well. I have read that the request for federalization by Bush & Co. would also put all State ASSETS under federal control which also means the oil assets that are CURRENTLY under state control.

If the guard had been federalized then Posse Comitatus kicks in which is a protection against military rule and prohibits the military in it's action within the civilian matters. (The original 1878 Posse Comitatus Act was passed with the intent of removing the Army from domestic law enforcement....The Posse Comitatus Act was passed to remove the Army from civilian law enforcement and to return it to its role of defending the borders of the United States. Some perceive it to be only a formality now, having eroded over the past 20 years.)

http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=36299&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=posse+comitatus&topic_view=flat&start=30



There were way too many contradictions that didn't jive, as we all know. Here are but two that really bothered me at the time, and still do:

Here's an old DU thread about FEMA 'disconnects':

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4602266

And then this was curious:

http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=36534&highlight=katrina
NORTHCOM was ready BEFORE Katrina hit

"...We had things ready....the only caveat is that we have to wait until the President authorizes us to do so..."


__________________________________________________________________________


This Katrina thing really got to me (as do lots of other things) but I have family in NO who are still negatively affected by Katrina and its aftermath. I know Bush & Co. used it to their advantage, as if it was their serendipitous 2nd New Pearl Harbor.

[burythehatchet]

36. Excellent, comprehensive and informed post

[tiptoe]

37. "Exploit CHAOS!" - "Create By destroying or From what has been destroyed"

DON'T GET IN THE WAY OF "DESTRUCTION OPPORTUNITIES": LET CHAOS HAPPEN (Katrina, 9/11?) or MAKE CHAOS HAPPEN (Iraq War, 9/11?) ...("LIHOP" and "MIHOP")

[BlueEyedSon]

41. There are more profit opportunities in chaos.

[burythehatchet]

49. No doubt.

I hear people say the neocons hate government. I completely disagree, they couldn't line their bank accounts without government.

[BlueEyedSon]

51. There are more opportunities for EXCESS profits in chaos.

is what i meant to post

[InvisibleTouch]

38. An acquaintance of mine is a police officer...

...in D.C. He and others in his area volunteered to go to New Orleans and help out. They were turned away at the Louisiana border. Makes you wonder.

[RazzleDazzle]

42. That is just one example of many, many, many, many, many

Even the offers of Mayor Daley in Chicago and Gov. Richardson in New Mexico were rebuffed. Well, to be thoroughly accurate they told Daley they'd take one truck, I think, of a much larger number offered.

[Nothing Without Hope]

54. That happened to a LOT of people, both convoys from the US and

organized rescue teams from other countries standing by. There are heartrending articles about a doctor who called the feds repeatedly trying to reach someone who would tell him where he could help, but finally gave up and just went. He was treating emergency patients spread out on an airport tarmac, many of them near death. FEMA personnel removed him, saying only their OWN doctors could treat these patients - but there WERE no other doctors. He begged to be allowed to continue until their doctors came - but they refused. He saw a patient die after he had to stop treating her.

I have links for all this if you want them.

[Nothing Without Hope]

39. I've believed that from the beginning and I still do. **HERE ARE THREADS**

from last September and today. The posts throughout the September one fill in a lot of detail and background. They've been setting up this power grab for a long, long time. It's for power, for money, for land, for getting rid of the people they didn't want.

Last September's thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4790112
thread title (9/16/05): Missing A KEY POINT in *'s speech: POWER GRAB FOR POTUS AND MILITARY

Today's thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x377040
thread title (2-10-06 GD): NYT: WH knew early about levee breaks - and BUSH POWER GRAB ALERT!

And as for the signs being there from the very first, check this out:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4523783
thread title (8-31-05): CNN/New Orleans:"Mayor blasts failure to patch levee breeches" and that's {only the beginning}

As time went by and the obvious, deliberate delays and blockages of aid went on and the death toll rose, it got ever more inescapable. Then Bush made his New Orleans speech about how this could all have been avoided if the feds had all the power and the Posse Comitatus rules didn't exist. (That's in the Sept 16 thread above.) With the help of Rove, he tried to blackmail Blanco into giving him control of the Louisiana National Guard and full control of all rescue and relief efforts. It's all spelled out in thousands of released documents:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5518358
thread title (12-4-05): WP:Documents Highlight Bush-Blanco Standoff(Vitter carried Rove's message)

The WH keeps talking about how there needs to be centralization and clarity, but in fact the Bush Administration's own National Response Plan (under the DHS) gives very clear authority in an emergency to the Secretaries of Defense and Homeland Security under the President:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4668155
thread title (9-6-05): The Buck Stops Here: NATIONAL RESPONSE PLAN

In fact, it was Chertoff's responsibility and he completely blew it. In addition to not acting on urgent messages or apparently even turning on his TV to see what was happening, he delayed issuing a critical triggering declaration which ONLY HE COULD GIVE for days longer than it should have been:
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/12637172.htm
(There is apparently a GAO report concluding that he erred in this delay too, but I don't have that link.)

The blocks of aid, the continuing deaths from dehydration weeks after the storm, there are endless documented stories and I have bookmarks to hundreds of them myself. I wasn't trying for a comprehensive collection, but they just kept pouring in.

Significantly, the New York Times did a study of a quarter of the RECOGNIZED deaths in New Orleans from Katrina and found that most happened AFTER the storm, not during it:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5632930
thread title (12-19-06): NYT reports study of Katrina dead - MOST DIED AFTER THE STORM
All of these deaths were meaningless and should never have happened. And that is "only" the deaths. The physical and emotional trauma of the survivors, the displacement of people from their homes, from the entire fabric of their lives and communities - all of that is massive beyond comprehension and will continue to unfold for the rest of their lives. It has and will change our entire nation, both for us and in the eyes of the world.

FEMA is currently involved in terminating payments for hotels, and many storm survivors are becoming homeless:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x350683
thread title (2-7-06 GD): Thousands of Katrina evacuees EVICTED from hotels, now homeless
And there are STILL thousands of empty FEMA trailers parked hundreds of miles away from where they could actually be used. That's ANOTHER of the millions of stories in this manifold tragedy:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x377263
thread title (2-10-06 GD): LAT: "The Land of 10,770 Empty FEMA Trailers" & Katrina housing EXPLAINED

I also believe that the Bushies WANTED signs of violence, preferably photogenic rioting or looting, that they could add to their carefully crafted picture of a scary scene that required martial law. Documents show that they EXPECTED rioting, there are examples of false, possibly fabricated stories of looting, and the few scenes and stories of looting they had were endlessly looped in TV reports for the rest of the country to see. But the real situation on the ground was very different from this. Again, lots of bookmarked articles and reports.

I could add more and more and more. The evidence taken together is absolutely DAMNING. You're damned right it was LIHOP. In fact, given the deliberate dismembering of support for even maintenance of the essential levees as well as formulation of key evacuation plans for the preceding years despite the inevitability of an eventual major hurricane, it could be said to be in a sense MIHOP. (Bushies don't control the weather, but the predictions were very clear. In their own 2001 report, a major hurricane in New Orleans was given as one of the three most probable US catastrophes - the other two being a terrorist attack on NYC and an earthquake in San Francisco.) Now they're trying to scapegoat little Brownie and grease the skids into a police state while their cronies loot what's left of New Orleans and everyone (they hope) simply forgets about Alabama, Mississippi and the other affected areas.

FEMA was a functioning agency under Clinton. It was gutted, starved, depopulated of experts and competent, caring people, and given to a doofus to run under impossible conditions. (And yes, I have bookmarks on that part too.) It was SUPPOSED to fail. And it did.

[burythehatchet]

44. nice compilation...bookmarked

[Emit]

46. Yes, TX, NWH for this compilation. I recall many of these threads!

nicely done!

[Disturbed]

48. LIHOP

Nothing Without Hope has stated the case clearly.

[shance]

55. Why were Homeland Security trucks lined up and down for weeks

at the same areas where the levees broke?

Eyewitnesses saw the white trucks with tinted windows and DHS home plates.

[lies and propaganda]

60. genocide, or at the very least a mass homicide

there isnt a punishment fitting for these fucks. They just kill and kill and kill and lie when they arent killing.

[upi402]

64. 9-11 was LIH at the least, Katrina could well be as well.

imho

[blue cat]

65. OK, what is LIHOP?

Sorry, I'm slow on the uptake sometimes.

[DoYouEverWonder]

67. It's a reference to 9-11

LIHOP - Let it happen on purpose

MIHOP - Made it happen on purpose.

BTW: Welcome to DU :hi:

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

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[linazelle]

70. Right. IF you believe that every time Bush has a problem incompetence

is the reason, then that's even more hilarious.

The war was blamed on incompetent intelligence.
9/11 failures to heed warnings were blamed on incompetence.
Bush's misdeeds are regularly chalked up to incompetence.

If they are that goddamned incompetent, why are they allowed to stay in office?

Incompetence is too convenient an excuse but I suppose it's easier to accept that the keystone cops are running the country than to accept that they are crooks.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

74. The LIHOP alarm went off in my head when they

suspended rescue efforts because of "rumors" of snipers.

Rumors of snipers, and they stop rescuing people who are trapped without food or water in a hot, humid city.

First of all, I immediately considered the possibility that the reported gunshots came from people who were signalling for helpd.

Even if the rumors had been true, they could have sent rescuers in with a National Guard member or two riding shotgun.

How many people died because of the 24-hour delay? How many people died because the "rescuers" were instructed to knock and shout out once before deciding that no one was inside?

(NOTE to lurkers: No one is saying that the storm itself was LIHOP, but the shameful response to it was.)

[burythehatchet]

75. And how many people are still without help becuase

the trailers they were promised are still sitting empty.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

76. Lots of them in Mississippi

according to what I saw and heard when I was down there in January. People are still living in tents or in their cars. The relief center I worked at was still having to give away bottled water because so many people were essentially camping out.