Theres something wrong going on (re: abuse pics)

[mogster]

So, can we turn things around for a minute? Clear our brains of clutter and start afresh?

On September 11. 2001 an event happened that divided us all.
It divided America, yet it should have created national unity. How come?

It divided America and Europe, yet it should have made allies come closer and stick together. How come?

Then came the Iraqi war. It divided America further, and it divided Europe into Old and New. How come?
It also divided the Iraqis, because many thought of Bush as a saviour from Husseins cruel regime. It also divided the UN, and the NATO (although they pretend unity). How come?

Then the terror attacks in Madrid occurred, executed a few days before an election. The Spaniards wasn't gonna change govt. despite the Iraqi war, but there's no doubt this event did a lot to pull a win for the socialists. And divided the coalition. But it wasn't because of the terror itself, but because the Aznar govt. wouldn't atrribute them to the Al-Queda, but instead blamed the ETA. How come?

Later same year the torture pictures suddenly 'leaked', depicting American soldiers doing what no one could imagine American soldiers would do; torturing prisoners while smiling insanely. It divided everyone; either you're for this or you're against it. There's no inbetween. How come those pictures was taken in the first place? Why was the soldiers smiling, on command? It didn't ring true when I saw them for the first time.

Then London was attacked, and it drove the spike in between the European muslims and the native Europeans. It divided the European population, because everyone could see the paradox in the fact that the bombers was from well adjusted families, and not some undercover group of extremes you'd think they'd come from. How come?

Later the same year, Jylland-Posten decided to print cartoons of Mohammed. They went for the top card, the ace, and did the one thing no muslim like, no matter how moderate he/she is, because of the world situation. It divided the Muslims, because some can live with this and some can't. It also divided the European muslim population further from the native European population, because of the reactions with burned embassy's and increased feeling of being threatened/insulted. How come?

Now comes another incident, supposedly from 2002, where British soldiers is beating up young Iraqis. It probably will divide Europe further, because it looks positively like something you'd see going on between Israelis and Palestinians. How come it was released now? On the news they say some 'whistleblower' finally came forward with the video. Why now?

Inbetween these mentioned events, you can add a number of others. Like the strange incident where two British soldiers was captured with a car full of explosives. To blow up whom? Do they perchance 'adjust' the people blown up in Iraq to include civillian Iraqi's because the insurgents try to aim at military targets?
What about Nick Berg? He was a joker, allright. At the time of his murder, the mood was swinging because of the Abu Ghraib pictures. I known, because the news about Nick Berg came in the middle of a discussion I had with an Am. rightwinger on motherjones.com. I had him on his back, because he too was influenced by the pcitures of torture. But when the murder known, he changed back to 'every muslim is a bad terrorist'.
We were about to become united in condemnation of the torture, then this event divided us.

Add your own example - here's my personal experience.

In Norway we have a party called the Progress party. They have never liked the immigration of any non-whites and they have close ties to the Christian extremists in Norway, the anti-muslim Christians. I have debated these people since 1999, and know them pretty well.
Their leader, Carl Hagen, has been a vocal critic of immigration, and you can imagine he picked up speed after 911.
This summer, he ranted in public about the riots in Paris, claiming it was the start of the WWIII and in the same sentence talked about 30.000 suicide bombers. He was very very loud about it and it was worse than before because he'd been appointed to the vice-presidency of the Stortinget, our parliament.
Then this January, one of his stauchest supporters, the small Christian paper Magazinet, published the Mohammed cartoons to provoke Norwegian Muslims. And the Muslims responded, world wide.

But Hagen was totally silent. Not a word from him for the whole period while the scenario played out. How come?
This event divided the Norwegians from the Norwegian Muslims (or did at first). It was done by a person with close ties to the Progress party, yet their chairman and most prominent figure, a man that squeezed every ounce of xenophobic juice out of the Paris riots, never uttered a word in public about it. How come?
The Paris riots never was about muslims, this incident was. According to his behaviour pattern, he chould have reacted.

But he didn't until now, today, when the Norwegians has made peace with their Muslims and even sent an envoy of Christian and Muslims to the Muslim countries to patch up the relations. Today he accused the chairman of the Islamic Council in Norw. of backstabbing the Norwegian freedom of speech after he'd been interviewed on Al-Jazeera explaining why the Norwegians published the cartoons.

Why now? Because we're becoming united again, that's why. He didn't want to expose himself during the rioting and embassy burning, but when things go quiet, he pops up to try to inflame the situation again.

To divide us once more. Divide and conquer - the oldest recipe in the book of the dictator.

[MichiganVote]

1. Iraq divided us. Prior to Iraq, it was only Bush and Repub's.

Iraq was and is the dividing line.

[mogster]

6. Friend, you've been divided since 1980

And so has the world around you, I guess.

But the dividing event was 911, the event that instated the NWO. Even here I heard people say, as the horror unfolded, that this was gonna change everything.

[MichiganVote]

15. No. Not so. Differences of political or economic opinions have

always existed in the US. Some are fought vehemently, others less so. That is standard in the US. Iraq has presented an entirely new set of divisions. Divisions such as those between those men and women who serve and those who don't. Those families who have men or women in service and those who don't. Economic divisions are much more evident since Iraq and more importantly, its becoming the talk of most small towns and cities whose budgets are being slashed essentially to accomodate preemptive war.

911 centralized the opinions of American citizens more than previous events. Make no mistake, Americans are vicious about attacks on their soil and having lived in this country all of my life through now four wars and numerous conflicts I can say this--don't expect anything else. Has the Bush cabal "attacked" the right groups responsible for 911? Ask just about anyone and they'll have a different opinion based on the issue of preemption. The invasion of Afghanistan did not generate the same level of divisiveness b/c Americans believed that the gov't was going to get Osama Bin Laden with little or no loss to Americans. Little did they know the Bush cabal would lie us into one conflict after another for economic means. Or so I believe.

Divisiveness arose between American citizens and their government following the invasion of Iraq. It has been on the increase with the rise in insurgency and the torture of detainees at Abu Gharib and elsewhere. The 'opinion soup' that is the American public at present, will not be replaced anytime soon. In place of listening and responding to what American citizens want and need, the American gov't is instead, conjuring rationales for either its failures or its thievery.

We are in a strong and strange period of change both in the US and throughout the world . The end is neither in sight and its not likely to be pretty. Or so I suspect. 911 may have acted as a catalyst for American rage and anger, but it is a long time ago in the minds of Americans. In the event of another such event, Americans will betray this same rage and anger at the gov't and any further perpetrators.

But then, living here in the US....anything can happen and usually does.

[hopeisaplace]

2. Just like Chorus in song lyrics I've recently written -

Where Have All The Leaders Gone

(CHORUS)
We sing for justice in a song
The world in disarray for so long
If right is someone else’s wrong
who’ll teach us how to get along
With divide and conquer going strong
Where have all the leaders gone?


What you've written was my motivation to write these lyrics.
I completely agree with you.

[mogster]

7. Thank you, hopeisaplace

I like these lyrics, they describe it perfectly :-)

[zbdent]

3. Two years seperate my brother and myself

and he has asked me "Why I hate America" . . .

If it weren't for my niece, I'd write them off totally. But I don't want to be out of my niece's life (my mother was shunned by my father's family for years. It took my grandfather's passing away to have them bury the hatchet . . .)

[mogster]

8. It's sad when families are divided

Especially for politics. I've seen a lot of that after 'coming over' here.

For example the war on Christmas.
Christmas should be the time of year when families comes together to relax and rest, not disagree politically.
Bury the hatchet for your niece, zbdent. It shows you're a wise person. And a nice person too.

[zbdent]

17. He's laid off since a few months after the 2004 election, but

I am waiting for him to rear his ugly barbs again . . .

Thankfully, I had not used my "atomic bomb" of an attack on him . . . through an "innocent" query of our mother, I found out that what I was going to use against him was DEAD WRONG and would have forever torn a rift between us.

I didn't mean to come off as saying that they were that way all the time . . . it was during the 2004 election cycle that he hit me with "Why do you hate America?". We've had good times since then (even let him drive my 'vette; something I couldn't do when he owned one). He loves to trade barbs with Mrs. ZBDent about her being a Browns fan, while he (and my roots) is from the 'Burgh. They have traded barbs on that one, along with wagers . . .

Not sure if his "cease-fire" has anything to do with me being diagnosed as a type-2 adult-onset diabetic in Jan 2005 . . . but I wouldn't doubt it . . . some cousins and other relatives (not direct) have lived with diabetes as long as I've known them, and I've used them as my benchmark as to not being "devastated" . . . but we did lose a cousin to kidney failure and complications a few years back.

[rodeodance]

4. thanks very much

[mogster]

9. Your'e welcome

:hi:
It had a slight error, the OP. The current video released is said to be from 2004, not 2002.

[EFerrari]

5. As we are uniting as a people in our concern over

domestic spying, our Justice Department is investigating just who the traitor is that leaked this information and jeopardized our national security. :eyes:

[mogster]

10. Hi Beth

Do you think the investigation is another diversion? I do. They play on us like we're marimbas.

The Americans are united against Bush, and I hope he'll fall soon. How can he even stand upright anymore? :shrug:

:hug:

[EFerrari]

12. It's a diversion meant for us and a direct threat to the press.

I don't know how he stays upright, either. What is he gonna do when the puppet masters are in jail? Who will pull the strings? lol

:hug:

[mogster]

13. WE!

We'll pull the strings from now on! No, but for sure; this place and several other Am. boards is the only people with a sane approach to all this. If only it would catch on to others.. :-)

[Emit]

11. Divide and conquer

is one of the major principles according to Sun Tzu's The Art of War. And while I think he was referring more to ground fighting tactics, the powers that be have historically used this tactic in more philosophical way, as well.

[mogster]

14. One interesting point is

That Rumsfeld was concerned that the propaganda they use against the 'enemy', and supposedly also against their allies, is deflecting back on the American society, creating unexpected effects.
Not that I know exactly what he meant by that, but when this is over let's ban propaganda, I'd say.

[Emit]

16. Can you be more specific?

Who are 'they'?


You wrote: "... propaganda they use against the 'enemy', and supposedly also against their allies ..."

Are you meaning that Rumsfeld was referring to the "insurgents' propaganda"?

Or, are you referring specifically to Rumsfeld's own propaganda and to what others have called Rumsfeld's Propaganda Ministry?:

Rumsfeld's Propaganda Ministry
Topics: U.S. government | propaganda
Source: Village Voice, November 14, 2003
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld "has transformed himself from corporate henchman to a crusty old guy who can say anything any time with few repercussions," writes James Ridgeway. "Last year he wanted to set up a special propaganda bureau called the Office of Strategic Influence, but he had to close it down amid reports it was putting out false information in an effort to sway public opinion. In late October he told The Washington Times he wants a '21st-century information agency in the government' (excerpt below) to help fight a 'war of ideas.'"

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:BbuLuP4kB14J:www.prwatch.org/node/2287+Rumsfeld+propaganda&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=8

Mr. Rumsfeld suggested a "21st-century information agency in the government" to help in the international battle of ideas, to limit the teaching of terrorism and extremism, and to provide better education, he said.

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20031023-114713-4202r.htm

Sorry for the confusion and thanks in advance for clarifying. Is there a link to Rumsfeld referring to this?

Either way, it is a good reason to quell the propaganda or at least, for the masses to understand its effects.

edited spelling

[mogster]

18. I would think the Pentagon

I read this quote out of the corner of my eye here about a week ago. Didn't bookmark it, though.
I'll have a look and see if I can come up with some more.

But now I have to work! :P

[NNN0LHI]

19. The Nazis were great at dehumanizing the Jews too

And for the "this isn't the exact same thing" crowd out there here is a hearty fuck you.

Don