I've talked to quail hunters...

[AValdoux]

...I have a horse-barn full of them working on my husband's new BBQ pit.

In all fairness, Worthington walked up behind a group tracking a moving quail covey, big mistake. When a hunting party walks (or drives) around looking for quail they initially flush them, then follow (usually in a truck). When a covey is disturbed they move in short burst. Tracking a moving covey is often done with a truck. You drive to the point you see the covey land, then get out and walk to where you see them land, guns loaded.

This will be spun as Worthington's mistake and it was. I'm not defending Cheney or hunting quail with the use of a vehicle (probably a Suburban or an Excursion). I'm just posting how Texans hunt quail.

Its "he said, she said" if Worthington signaled his approrach on the hunters tracking the quail.



AValdoux

[madmom]

1. sorry but no hunter worth his salt will shoot not knowing where the

rest of his party is. If that's the way it's done then maybe we do need more gun laws !I've been around hunters all my life (52years) and not one "accident" and they hunt just about everything thats legal to hunt.

[Swamp Rat]

4. Yes

Bunch of reckless assholes with horrible weapons handling! :eyes:

I bet they were drinking too... :eyes:

[Neil Lisst]

24. Yeah, and you WALK the quail up and follow on foot, in a line ...

The paramount rule is safety, and that requires everyone staying abreast of each other, guns pointing straight ahead. Quail normally all come up at once, and fly away from you. Not like Dove, who will veer left or right much more.

Bottom line is you keep safely abreast of and aware of your other hunters. Basic hunting safety.

I quit hunting a long, long time ago, but some lessons should never be forgotten. Guns are dangerous, and their purpose is to kill, so treat them that way, always.

[VTMechEngr]

43. Exactly!

NRA Rule: Know your target, and what lies beyond!

[Squatch]

2. And, how in the hell do you sneak up on the VP of the United States?

[HereSince1628]

14. BINGO!!!!!! There were EYES looking in all directions.

I am guessing Cheney swung around and shot in a direction (behind him) no one expected or had time to stop.

[rateyes]

36. with a damned gun in your hand? nt

[stanwyck]

3. OK. But maybe Cheney and Bush should

just give up all the bullshit macho posturing....hunting, ranching, "moving brush around"...if they can't keep from hurting themselves or other people. Hell, Bush can't even ride a bike. (or eat a pretzel).
And you've done as good a job as Rove at spinning Cheney's carelessness. Remember, it took over 24 hrs. for his office to confess to what happened. Plenty of time for the cover story on who was at fault.
We're not going to know what happened. And maybe you believe their version. Cause...these people would never lie, now would they?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

5. I used to quail hunt. You don't pull the EFFING trigger without knowing

what you're shooting. If you are with a group, you know where everone is before you shoot blindly.

He caught the guy in his face and shoulders. It was now "peppering" if there was blood and the guy is in the hospital.

[stepnw1f]

20. Do Folks Use Buckshot for Quail Hunting?

and did Cheney use Buckshot?

[Buns_of_Fire]

28. NORMAL people don't. As for DICK, ehhhhhhh.........

Naw, you use buckshot on quail, you'd be lucky to have a feather left to take home to Lynne. I'm sure it was birdshot and the media just used "buckshot" as a generic term for those unfamiliar with shotguns.

Besides, DoD wouldn't let DICK have any of those neato daisycutter hand grenades they've been trying to perfect.

[stepnw1f]

34. I Don't Know

if Dick keeps having accidents we might be better off giving him one of those neato daisycutters.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

37. Not normally. Bird shot which is a much smaller pellet.

[Road Scholar]

6. When a covey is flushed, they get up and spread in all

directions. They then are referred to as "singles" even though there may be two or three together.
There is NO, repeat NO excuse for pulling the trigger without knowing your target or what's behind your target. The second rule of gun safety.First rule: All guns are loaded.
I'm 62, and have quail hunted all my adult life.

[janx]

9. Yeah, the story published in the papers doesn't sound right to me.

How could the guy have been blasted with shot on his head, neck, and part of his side? It sounds as if he had to have been close to Cheney.

[ManiacJoe]

38. Probably about 20-25 yards.

At least in the large shot sizes, the spread is roughly 1 inch per yard traveled.

[Road Scholar]

45. I agree. With that much shot, he had to be close range. More

than 25 yards, he might not have spent the night in the hospital.

[tocqueville]

7. hunting from cars is forbidden in Europe, it's poaching

you can't walk ? don't hunt. Or use a videogame.

[BooScout]

18. Yeah!

& Europeans just run down foxes whilst on horses........and the British still do it even though it's banned. The elite you see.

Don't get me wrong....I hate all hunting unless it's in a society where it's necessary to put food on the table.

[tocqueville]

27. it's banned and it happened only in the UK

it has never been popular in the rest of Europe either

abuses happen here too, of course, but there are some basic rules :

no hunting from car (for the accident risk and because cars allow you to sneak on the animal in a way a human can't do). Hunting from horse is mostly forbidden too, but the deal has been mostly around the use of the dog pack, not the horse

no hunting at night

no hunting with automatic rifles


I can understand sport hunting if it's practiced by responsible, trained indviduals, and subject to plenty of restrictions so minimal harm is done to the animal and the environment. The lack of big predators (wolf, bear, lynx) does that some professional hunting must regulate populations too, to avoid damages on crops and car accidents.

I am not a hunter myself but have been dealing with hunting for environmental issues

[sandnsea]

21. It is in most states too

In fact, road hunters are a joke to hunters that I know. But I learned a while ago that alot of weird shit goes on in parts of this country that the rest of it finds bizarre.

[AValdoux]

8. Like I said...

...I'm not defending anything. I'm just delivering the view from the barn, red state mentality. They thought it was funny, walking up on the VP & getting "peppered". No damage done & kinda funny.




AValdoux

[Road Scholar]

10. It's funny now and I'm enjoying some of the humorous

postings, but that poor bastard is lucky to be alive. I don't go hunting
with just anyone for that very reason.Too many lunatics roaming the woods(if you get what I mean)

[AValdoux]

12. We don't hunt...

...But my husband's "associates" do and they are good welders. I was trying to post their view & how this will be spun.




AValdoux

[Road Scholar]

48. Apparently, it was a very good thread. It certainly generated

some very good (and I hope informative) discussions about what must have happened. Congratulations!

[pitohui]

16. well he's lucky not to have damaged or lost an eye

don't think there was any chance of killing the dude, even at age 78, with bird shot

they were drinking there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever

[qanda]

23. I'm sure I'm just missing something

But I fail to see what's so funny about this.

[leftchick]

26. funny because they are repuke?

would it have been funny if Al Gore had done it? You ought to ask them.

[Nothing Without Hope]

40. He's in intensive care after surgery to remove the pellets. Estimated

FIFTY hit him. This is not trivial, as it's being made out to be in the corporate media:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x400204
thread title (2-13-06 GD): A few things I've noticed about the shooting accident
Comment/excerpt: “First was the expected minimization of the incident and the downplaying of the wounds of a man who's still in intensive care. Most of these comments are from the ranch owner Katharine Armstrong, daughter of a former Halliburton director and professional Republican Pioneer bootlicker. … The true scope of Wittinton's injury is indicated in this Dallas Morning News article:
‘A friend who has talked to family members said that Mr. Whittington was hit by about 50 birdshot pellets. He underwent surgery Sunday morning to remove some of the pellets, and doctors have told his family that the shot apparently did not damage any major organs.’”

[Steve A Play]

11. Sorry, that just doesn't cut it

Hunting safety training 101, ALWAYS BE CERTAIN OF YOUR TARGET BEFORE PULLING THE TRIGGER!

The 'shooter' is always responsible for where and what they shoot. Every member of a hunting party is responsible for being aware of the whereabouts of the other members of their party at all times. When stalking prey, you don't go around "announcing" your presence unless you want to get shot by the others in your party for scaring off whatever it is you're hunting.

I sure hope you don't go hunting with the bozos in your barn. :(

[AValdoux]

13. I don't hunt with them...

... but I have been attacked by quail on my way to the mucking (horse poop) pile on our acreage. "Funny story about life in the country."

Also we don't allow hunting on our land.


AValdoux

[Zynx]

17. Those hunters are scary people for saying what they did.

If they would actually put Whittington at fault they are obviously the same people who would blame the people who get shot here every year in Wisconsin deer hunting and turkey hunting.

[Zynx]

15. That is spectacular BS.

Any hunter safety course tells you that you don't fire unless you are certain that there are no people in front of you. It doesn't matter if that person should or shouldn't be there. If someone gets shot it is the shooter's fault. Any hunter saftey course would tell you as much.

[LisaL]

19. It's amazing they all haven't shot each other then.

Is looking at what you are shooting at too much to ask?

[Pastiche423]

22. Who is Worthington?

Being a city girl, now living in a rural area, I asked three hunters about Mr.Whittington being 78 and in the ICU.

At 1st they said he was there because of his age. But when I said I thought he was shot w/#6 buck shot, they said he ain't in there because of his age.

Now what I don't understand, if Mr. Whittington "snuck" up behind the dick, how come he got peppered in his face, neck and chest?

[janx]

29. Because Dick acted recklessly, spun the barrel around,

and shot level, blowing shot into Harry.

(That's the short answer.)

Normally, quail hunters flush the birds out of the brush (or their dogs do so), and fire at them as they ascend, willy/nilly, into the air. Overzealous and reckless hunters want to catch them as close to the ground as possible.

Hence the shot which resides in Harry's face, neck, and side.

[Hubert Flottz]

39. I think he's in ICU because Cheney gutted him after he was shot?

GOPers do stuff like that! If Cheney had gone to the Army he'd have learned to handle his weapon.

[leftchick]

25. he was shot in the face as well

wtf? are there no sights on the guns? Or did he not bother to use it?

[complain jane]

30. Dick Cheney?!? Reckless??! Oh come on now, you're just being ridiculous.

:D

[Jacobin]

31. I'm a quail hunter

Guess what?

Its the hunter's responsibility NOT TO SHOOT others in the field.

Its ALWAYS the hunter's responsibility NOT TO SHOOT others in the field.

THERE ARE NOT EXCEPTIONS TO THIS.

Thank you.,

[PsN2Wind]

32. Agreed!!!

I used to hunt dove and quail here in Arizona and, in my crowd, it was considered very poor form to shoot your hunting partners. I used to hunt with an old skeet shooter that could double on our Gambles quail with regularity but then he always knew what he was shooting at. Is The Dick one of those that shoot at sounds or just motion?
Remember how the press used to rag on Gerald Ford for teeing off into the gallery or nailing his doubles partner in the back of the head on his serve? Bet we don't see a lot of that about this incident.

[Road Scholar]

51. I think that's how the Dick got where he is today. Shooting at

sounds and unknown motions.

[EstimatedProphet]

33. These guys DRIVE to the quail?!

:rofl:

Do they have caddies carry their guns for them too? Maybe shoot them too?

On edit: they sound not only irresponsible, but spoiled. Why are they even there?

[carolinalady]

35. He was behind them. I don't get it. Wouldn't Dead Eye have to

actually turn around to shoot him in the face?

[ScreamingMeemie]

41. I'm sorry. My family has 4 quail hunters...not counting the Munsterlanders

(bird hunting dogs) :), and not one of them buys this story. While they don't believe that it's some sort of conspiracy, they do believe it was Cheney's fault. If Whittington had walked across in front of Cheney's line of fire...that would be one thing, but he didn't. He was behind him. No hunter worth his salt should have a gun cocked and ready and then turn and fire. Even my husband, a lowly deer hunter, knows that.

[B Calm]

42. Cheney was careless and inexperienced hunter. The things

republican politicians will do to pander to the NRA is unbelievable!

[moondust]

44. Relatively small short-range targets.

Quail hunting in particular requires a keen sense of one's immediate surroundings because they often won't scare up until you're right on top of them. (And when they do they'll scare the crap outta ya!)

The Dick was likely drunk.


"...This is when the excitement builds in anticipation of an explosion of whirring wings known as the covey flush. An awareness of all of the gunners responsibilities and location of each prior to the flush is an absolute necessity. Strict gun discipline is required."

http://www.riverviewplantation.com/Quail_Hunting_Tips/quail_hunting_tips.html

[goodboy]

46. If I'm behind someone & they turn and shoot me in the face, it's my fault?

THIS IS NOT ABOUT HUNTING ETIQUETTE. THIS IS ABOUT MISHANDLING OF A FIREARM, ASSAULT WITH A DEADLY WEAPON, GROSS NEGLIGENCE.

ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
This is the primary rule of gun safety. A safe direction means that the gun is pointed so that even if it were to go off it would not cause injury or damage. The key to this rule is to control where the muzzle or front end of the barrel is pointed at all times. Common sense dictates the safest direction, depending on different circumstances.

Know your target and what is beyond.
Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. (ON A SIDE NOT, DIDN'T DICK SAY "THERE IS NO DOUBT SADDAM HAS WMD'S?} Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second.

[The Backlash Cometh]

47. tracking? covey?

I thought these were birds that were captured and released? In other words, Cheney, and everybody else would have known in which direction to shoot.

[Frank Cannon]

49. Excuse me, but this man was shot IN THE FUCKING FACE

I'm no Gil Grissom, but wouldn't that imply that the shooter was in front of him, facing him, when he pulled the trigger?

[notadmblnd]

50. he walks up behind them?

but was shot at 30 yards in the face?