As a Muslim, my thoughts on the World of the moment (Reflect and Confess)

[Terran1212]

I am upset at how things are turning out. I don't see a whole lot of good on the horizon.

I remember sitting in my hotel room one night a while back and turning on the television and watching an Arab man throw a chair out of a Danish embassy, with debris falling all around, with thousands screaming and rioting.

As soon as I saw those images, I knew what would be next.

The Westerners, the Establishmentarian old white men who chart the course of our country, they would look at these images and say, "See! They're a bunch of archaic crackpots! Fundamentalists who blow up your embassies if you poke fun at their religion! They're just a bunch of backwards cave dwellers!"

And most of our country -- including or maybe especially people who run the Mainstream Media -- will glance at these pictures and take this Establishment view. They won't do detailed analyses of the people rioting, of perhaps the social, political, and economic conditions that created the kind of rage in these people (who are supposedly rioting because of cartoons published back in September). No, they will just have the image of the Muslim as a fundamentalist, backwards animal. There will be no deep investigation into why this happened. It'll just be a bunch of crazy Muslims doing what Muslims do best -- act crazy.

And so when Bush comes to the podium, back with his Democratic allies (don't even start, they'll back him just like they did in 2002 with Iraq), and declares the need for another murderous war, this time against Iraq, and a new domestic spy campaign, or restricting the rights of muslim immigrants, or pumping up the "Defense" budget further -- Middle Americans will just look on and say, "Well, we're the civilized West and we need to defend ourselves against those fanatics."

And the Muslims around the world will suffer. They'll suffer under economic sanctions, they'll have their sons and brothers taken away and shoved into "secret prison camps," they'll die under a rain of smart bombs and munitions and checkpoint killings and midnight raids.

And when this boiling pot of Muslim unrest is hit by these new atrocities, it will become even worse. It'll no longer be burned embassies, this time it will be attacks on all Westerners. And these horrors will escalate with new horrors from the West, and the dual escalation will reach a point to an all out conflict -- and we know that Muslims cannot win such a conflict. Many will die on all sides, and the West will win its victory with its values of "pluralism, democracy, and liberty," and claim the econonomic and military hegemony it has been fighting for in the Middle East ever since it discovered that Gold is also found in a Black form.

And the Muslims will be written into the history books as the fanatical creatures trying to hold on to a "Global Islamic Empire" or some other Goebellian term, before they were beaten by the grand forces of the West, led by triumphant America.

And, as Edward Said said, "in the end, it's just racism."

[Zhade]

1. "this time against Iraq"

See? It's playing so much like a repeat, mistakes like this are easy to make.

Fwiw, I agree and sympathize with you. Shit, look at some of the anti-Arab posts on DU, nattering on about things they haven't even considered could be racist.

Some of us know better, though, and appreciate your thoughts. We'll do what we can to bring the others around.

[Terran1212]

3. good catch

[OKNancy]

5. You have time to edit it

Edit link is on the lower right of your post... in case you didn't know that already

[Terran1212]

6. I think it actually may prove that poster's point

It's all becoming so rolled together into this long-predicted "Clash of Civilisations" that it doesn't matter what I put in that space: Saddam, Al Qaeda, Iran, Iraq, militant, civilian, muslim..

[Zhade]

14. I've seen this mistake all over DU recently.

It sure does feel like a repeat of something I didn't want in the FIRST place!

[OKNancy]

19. I'm sorry, I thought it was your work

So who wrote it and where did you find this?

[Terran1212]

20. Oh, it is mine; I wrote it

But the poster who replied to it says this error is being often repeated; leaving it may prove a point.

[FormerRepublican]

2. I'm right with you until we start talking about violence.

I was abused and oppressed pretty much my whole life. I have severe PTSD and am completely disabled because of it. It doesn't give me the right to go out and vandalize or injure and kill people.

That's where I draw the line and where my sympathy ends.

[Terran1212]

4. I'm not pro-violence at all; I'm humanist

I want to understand how this violence comes about and put an end to it, not escalate it.

[FormerRepublican]

8. WRT that, we're in agreement.

[carolinalady]

7. I agree with your prediction about atrocities, but I would not sell

the Muslim population short. They truly have the power-they own the black gold. If it turns in to a world wide violent war, I am not sure who the victors will be. Maybe no one.

[FormerRepublican]

11. This is my fear as well. Everyone loses.

[Spankydem]

9. Great post.

the part i have a littlr trouble with...

They won't do detailed analyses of the people rioting, of perhaps the social, political, and economic conditions that created the kind of rage in these people (who are supposedly rioting because of cartoons published back in September).

Uhhhh....when exactly do the rioters do a detailed analysis of the social, political, and economic conditions of western/democratic values and sensibilities that reject reactionary ideology and support freedom of speech....or is it only one way??

[Terran1212]

10. Both sides should do that, but the side not rioting

Probably would be the one to start (as in they are in a more sane position to do so)

[Spankydem]

17. WOW !!

so the one not "sane" gets a free pass not to do a detailed analysis because theyre rioting ??

That seems a tad convoluted to me.

[Terran1212]

18. Have you daddled much in humanism?

The point here is not to label one side as "bad" or "good"; it has nothing to do with a "free pass." It's just that one side is in a better position to open themselves to the other.

Unless of course you are waiting for people who've been in mad rioting state to completely change themselves overnight.

[Spankydem]

21. I am all for understanding.....

i think at this point i will leave it that.

[rman]

49. some people can not or do not want to understand

There's no point in waiting for them until they to understand, before taking action yourself. this has nothing to with 'allowing' those people not to understand.

[tlsmith1963]

12. What's Amazing Is...

...that people will get so upset about "fanatical" Muslims & then conveniently forget about the fanatics we have here (neocons & fundamentalist Christians). The problems of the world will never be solved until we stop being so one-sided.

Tammy

[centristo]

56. neocons and Christians

generally don't condone murder when you defame Jesus or Ronald Reagan. That's a big difference. Neocons and Christians generally don't condone suicide bombing, or for that matter reward the families of suicide bombers.

I think we can, and should be, one-sided when one side is so clearly in the morally wrong position. We don't need to apologize for critizing Muslims who support murder and suicide bombings out of respect for their religion. There have been countless races and religions that have been persecuted over the centuries, and I can't think of any off hand that achieved equality through the use of murder and suicide bombing. What's wrong is wrong and anything short of agreement with that is simply making excuses for what should be inexcusable.

But at its core, the true danger is not found in "Muslims", its found in any group that takes the word of "their god" at face value and excludes the rational discource of other philosophies. It doesn't matter if they are Christians, Jews, Hindus, Greeks, Romans, or Tibetan monks. Dogma is our true enemy here.

[bloom]

13. I have to wonder

how much of this is related to the unsolved Israeli/Palestinian crisis.

If this is someone's idea of how to "resovle" it.



Yahoo is running two stories about Gore's speech today.

One is:

Gore Laments U.S. 'Abuses' Against Arabs

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2104321


the other is:

Gore: Iran 'danger for world'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=116x12459


That kind of sums up what is going on. How things can be spun so differently. And it's all just "speech".

[Lexingtonian]

15. very fatalistic p.o.v.

I like to think the Western motivation to bad behavior has ground down enough because of the Iraq misadventure. To the point where your scenario may be true on the Arab end but perhaps not on the Western one.

[tocqueville]

16. there is only one way to break it : "Enlighted Islam"

Attack your Imams the way Voltaire did ("crush the infamous")

there are attempts done in Europe, but so far there are few leading secular "muslim" intellectuals. But the movement has started, specially amongst women

Attack them on the very points that hurts, publish your own cartoons of Mahomet, unveil your women, drink wine and eat pork. Leave the right to anyone to privately express their religion but separate the Mosque from the State... Destitute your Saudi Kings and open the Mecca to everybody, Jews included.

you'll have the masses with you, because the Islamic masses secretely want to be freed but are too afraid to express it

all the attempts to condemn the Islamic fundies but keep living by the old rules and asking the West for more exceptions are doomed to fail in the end...

Beware that most Fundie Christians are going to be against you, they'll call you a traitor to your religion... an infidel

[Spankydem]

23. HOLY SHIT !!

Attack them on the very points that hurts, publish your own cartoons of Mahomet, unveil your women, drink wine and eat pork. Leave the right to anyone to privately express their religion but separate the Mosque from the State... Destitute your Saudi Kings and open the Mecca to everybody, Jews included.

Dude.....talk like that in cetain places can lead to a short life.

[tocqueville]

25. How do you think the American and French Revolutions were won ?

by negotiating with the aristocracy and the Church ? How do you think Kemal Atatürk transformed Turkey into a secular state ?

I am only advocating the right for all muslims to become secular if they chose to and to destitute (with peaceful means if possible) corrupted theocracies...

Is there any other way ?

[breakfastofchampions]

46. There is no other way

I fear moderate Muslims will have to take back their culture from the radicals or everyone will lose.

[centristo]

57. i agree with you 100% percent

but what happens if the moderate Muslims don't act? It's not like the radicals are content to just sit back and chill..

[megatherium]

24. Christians once executed blasphemers, apostates and heretics.

They would still to this day if Europe had not had its fill of religious violence in the 17th and 18th centuries. There are good reasons why Europe (and America) now treat religion as a personal matter, a matter of conscience, and why state-supported religions are either prohibited or else are merely ceremonial vestiges.

[LynnTheDem]

26. Yes they should give up & change their entire beliefs, customs,

everything! Be just like us! Then there's no fighting over differences!

:sarcasm:

[tocqueville]

32. total misunderstanding, sarcasm aside

nobody is asking the people of the ME etc to wear our clothes, stop eating falafel or whatever belongs to their private sphere, nobody is asking them to stop worshipping Allah and Mahomet is they want to.

but getting rid of their tyrants and religious oppression yes... Not to be replaced by Western tyrants of course.

When we overthrew our Kings and told our priests to stay in Church, we didn't adopt a foreign culture for that.

we tried to create a new culture of freedom, equality, welfare for all. We failed many times and had to fight the dark forces over and over again. Aren't you doing that in the US ? Today ?

Don't you tell Pat Robertson to go and fuck himself ? and have the legal right to do that.

Why should "Ali" be deprived of that right because he belongs to "another culture" ?

Isn't a a society like Saudi Arabia who forbids any Jew to enter it's territory (even a non-israeli), forbids the opening of a Christian Church a society that enlighted muslims have the right and even the duty to topple ?

Name a muslim country which isn't a dictatorship ? in most cases in religion's name...

Shouldn't we tell other oppressed people to strive towards democracy, freedom and SECULARITY (the key point of democracy) ? Not by invading them, but by supporting the local forces advocating for the same rights than the one we fought for 200 years ago ?

it's for them to decide of course, I am just giving my opinion. And I know that this opinion is shared by leading intellectuals of muslim backgtound. They haven't found their Founding Fathers yet. It's just a matter of time...

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

30. How do you know this about the Islamic masses?

I would say that the majority in ME countries want to repress their women even more than they do now-they only use Islam as an excuse to maintain their ancient anti-feminine culture. And a lot of what they are mad about goes back quite a while-to the betrayal of the Arabs by the Europeans after WWI is merely one example. Another is the heavy-handedness of Christian missionaries, and the imposition of Western culture on ancient culture (when the Shah of Iran came into power, he forecably cut the veils from women who insisted on wearing them; in Turkey today, a woman teacher was fired from her post because she wore a headscarf in the streets before she went to school and took it off).

It might interest you to know that many American Muslims have about as much influence over the imams and mullahs of the Middle East as US Quakers have over the policies enacted by the Pope in Rome. Yet I have followed stories of individual mosques here in this country which had been founded with Saudi money being taken back by progressive Muslims, including Muslim women. I have read many posts about how reacting so negatively and violently over these cartoons is not even following the example of the Beloved Prophet (pbuh), who was assaulted by his pagan enemies while at prayer, and who did not raise a hand in anger towards them at that time. THIS sort of logic is much more likely to get through to a Muslim, especially a moderate one, because it goes along with the culture and teachings of the Faith.

If one follows the guidance of the Qur'an, women decide for themselves how to dress-and who is to say that dressing modestly is not more liberating for a woman than feeling that they must dress in a mini skirt and low cut blouse so that people look at them for their bodies rather than for their minds? Qur'an teaches to dress modestly so as not to attract attention to yourself. I can go for that much more than the "Barbie doll" culture of the West. (BTW, I am a Muslim convert-I am a native born American, with ancestors going back to the Mayflower plus ancestors who met the boat-can't get more American than that.)

And I HATE pork. Always have. Gives me indigestion. And drinking alcohol plays havoc with my blood sugar. Anyway, I'd rather get "drunk" on the spiritual practices of my faith, which I would never impose upon anyone else.

Finally, maybe the best way to have everyone to get along is for everyone to find out just a bit about other faiths. The Dances of Universal Peace (http://www.dancesofuniversalpeace.org) do just that.

[LynnTheDem]

33. I admit I was wondering that, too.

Hmmm. Everyone seems to have a crytal ball that tells of nations' & peoples' ambitions, thoughts, & desires...cept me. Was there a big sale?

[tocqueville]

36. visit these sites : says it all

http://www.niputesnisoumises.com/html/presentationanglais

http://www.niputesnisoumises.tv/ (check the images and you'll see plenty of young French, muslim women asking for rights (rights that any "white" or "black" "Christian woman has), even the right to homosexuality, frre sexuality, the right to dispose of their bodies as they want. Those women are more courageous than many men. They are the future.

http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/users/sawweb/sawnet/news/nasrin.html (another example)


sorry, Lynn but you seem to be unaware of what's going on in Europe and even i some muslim countries. I didn't invent those links. If you browse the net with keywords like islam/secularity islam/laicity (and even better going the the French-speaking sites if you understand French) you'll find plenty of people expressing my views. And THEY ARE MUSLIMS. And you'll find sites against...

[tocqueville]

35. let's reexplain some key points :

If you want to wear a scarf VOLUNTARILY it's OK as an ADULT, it's an expression of faith (even if it can be discussed). Most arabic women in Europe have thrown their scarves away because they consider them with all right IMHO as an attribute of masculine oppression and religion is an excuse. Strange isn't it for non-descendents from the MayFlower (wearing bonnets for exactly the same reasons) who by the way were a bunch of religious fundies and had burned you at stake if they had seen you.

But you have the right to wear whatever you want, modest or not. No norms have to be enforced, besides some obvious norms of decency (note that in most European countries bathing topless is not considered as indecent). But nobody forces you to take off your bra when going swimming or sunbathing.

But you are not entitled to use a scarf or ANOTHER religious symbol when you deal with profession which has to do with State affairs, as a civil-servant in countries like France or Turkey. Because it sends a signal that you could give priorities to a certain group based on religious beliefs; everybody must be treated equally.

No democracy have the right to force you to eat pork or to drink alcohol, it's up to you. But the contrary is true too, nobody has the right to forbid it, if it's your personal choice...

The Algerians, Moroccans, Tunisians, Kurds, Afghanis living in my community don't differ very much from the blue-eyed French. Some wear scarves, some don't, some drink wine, some don't, some eat pork, some don't. Some celebrate Xmas, some don't. Some go the mosque, some don't (most don't). Some celebrate Ramadan, some don't. Some think that the Danish cartoons were really funny.

Are they "bad muslims" ? Are they "traitors to Islam" ? I don't think so. I think they express their basic liberties in a secular State. Are they ostracized because they are "Arabs" ? By some yes, by the majority not.

Have they those rights (or even the mere possibility of expressing them) in ANY of the countries (except Turkey) they come from, 1st, 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants ?? the answer is NO

if they tried to express them when visting their parents, old friends, relatives they would be killed, tortured, jailed or in the easiest case thrown out of the country.

Do they have the right of fighting for these rights, here and abroad ? YES

they haven't converted to any religion, they don't "play muslim", they grew up with Islam as their culture. When they came here they made their own choices, because they had the freedom of doing it.

Do they wish that freedom for their brothers that come and visit them ? YES

and the ones that have to go back only whisper....

[Ani Yun Wiya]

44. Wow.

"Attack them on the very points that hurts, publish your own cartoons of Mahomet, unveil your women, drink wine and eat pork. Leave the right to anyone to privately express their religion but separate the Mosque from the State... Destitute your Saudi Kings and open the Mecca to everybody, Jews included."


With this insulting paragraph you place yourself firmly in agreement with *, the ignorant Danes and the zeitgeist of Western oppression.

Are you an atheist?

[cantstandbush]

22. I agree. This nation was founded on racism thru slave trade.

It was built on the backs of slaves and poor ignorant whites who were taught to hate the slaves. It will ultimately be the undoing of the nation. When the term, "the west" is used it means simply anglo-EU and that includes white Americans and Canadians. All roads lead to the race card and the PNACer-neocons understand this and they use it to meet their purposes.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

27. Salaam, brother

I, too, worry about what is going on. I do think that there are several agendas being met by this violence. On the Islamic side, it keeps crowds riled up about things happening "over there" so that repressions in the home country are forgotten. It also makes it easier for moderate Muslims to have their voices drowned out.

On the Western side, we have the neocons who are using this bruhaha to justify invading yet another country, and possibly taking the world to a nuclear Armageddon. As one pro-war protestor said at a Vermont peace rally over the weekend, "One towelhead is the same as another". Soon it may be "One Muslim is the same as another-they are all terrorists and killers, and we should do them in before they do us in."

Insh'llah (God Willing), we can educate enough people to make them realize what is happening-how media hype is manipulating populations that already have a distorted view of each other's culture. It can start here and now, with explanations of Islam and also of what is really going on in the Muslim world-that the cartoon riots are the tip of the iceberg when it comes to reasons for unrest.

Let us remember what it says in Sura 8:61 in the Qur'an:

But if the enemy
Incline towards peace,
Do thou (also) incline
Towards peace, and trust
In Allah; for He is the One
That heareth and knoweth
(All things).

translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali

[Spankydem]

28. Great post....

one question.....

EXACTLY WHO keeps crowds riled up about things happening "over there" so that repressions in the home country are forgotten ??




EDIT TYPO

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

31. Good question

Look to who is in power or who wants to obtain power in the various countries. I've heard that Syria is one of the countries where people are all stirred up-look to the type of regime they have there-a dictator recently died, his son took over-how better to cement power and gain loyalty of the masses? Remember, their news broadcasts are censored, and so many people only have a limited view of how things are. I would bet that many of the rioters aren't the affluent, and therefore cannot afford much education, or even satellite dishes, etc. These are the most easily manipulated.

Another place to look are the so-called "religious" leaders of various factions. They wish to build up their followings and thereby their power-again, riling up people by preaching "us versus them" will do that. In Islam, there is no central religious authority figure, and so the ones who want power come out in the open and appeal to the masses to build power and influence. Note, please that the real spiritual teachers do not get invovled in politics but rather minister to the spiritual needs of their students; Sharif Baba, a Turkish Sufi teacher in the Rafai Order, once said, "Don't worry about politics; worry about soul". Having met this fellow and other spiritual teachers, I can assure you that those fellows who want violence and power may call themselves religous, but they aren't really.

[noiretextatique]

42. look at america

for that answer. i doubt it is that different anywhere else. who has convinced working class whites that "family values" are more important that equitable wages and health care?

[Terran1212]

29. Insha'allah brother

[JCMach1]

34. Trust me, I worry about all of this... I live in the fall-out zone from

Iran... :scared:

[Deja Q]

37. Racism? Or Religionism?

People are lulled by the lowest common denominator and all people have the condition of "Xenophobia" to some degree. :( Throughout history, xenophobia is one of the underlying causes for every problem afoot.

[Nothing Without Hope]

38. All of us, all people of good heart, cannot let this happen.

Right now, it's looking like a reprise of the very useful (as a demagogic tool) fear- and hatemongering about Jews, gypsies and others by Hitler's fascists in the 2nd world war. But it's happened before throughout history. The extremists on all sides are using props for their diatribes, and the props are people.

All of this thrives on fear and ignorance, on both sides. That is what we must fight with relentless exposure of truth vs lies and taking every opportunity to dispel the lies that are fueling all these horrors. Extremists all over the world are deliberately stirring fear, bigotry and blind nationalism to achieve their own ends. This poisonous evil is opposed to the tenets of all the major world religions that I know of.

Fear is at the base of it all, and ignorance makes the fear easy for the demagogues to stir up. Fear and ignorance, then, are the enemies that must be fought. Please don't give up. This time we have a world internet and instant communication. THere is more of a basis for fighting the lies than ever before.

[jobycom]

39. Great post. That's what I see happening, too. Same old demonization

that was used on Native Americans and African Americans, same belittling dehumanization that justified our atrocities in Central and South America. Even people who seem to understand our history sometimes seem unable to translate it to an understanding of current events. We create our white supremacist myths and even people who think they understand fail to understand.

Said was right, but unfortunately America is more of a Bernard Lewis type of country.

[autorank]

40. "In the end, it's just stupidity."

I share your pessimism. Things look very dreary. The reflexive hatred is stunning. Where are the leaders on each side who can reach out and make a difference. I think they've all left the field.

I remember years ago, it was not uncommon to her people say that the Arabs and the Jews would someday work well together and prosper. I have not heard that for a least a decade. Amazing that it was ever said based on current events.

We're a captive of our collective stupidity, both sides of this despute. It pains me greatly to see the waste of energy and talent.

RECOMMENDED!!!

[Terran1212]

59. Thanks, but my pessimism still has its hopes

It probably always will

[donheld]

41. Great post

It's a Phobia. Muslimophobia or something.

[noiretextatique]

43. said is correct

it is just racism...the glue that holds it all together, when all is said and done.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

45. I agree.

Americans seem to have a great difficulty with racism.
As well as accepting that not all cultures are the same as their own.

[mogster]

47. Much of the violence is posturing

By governments, and not 'real' riots.

It's a way to deflect attention from problems at home, I'm afraid. Now, where did I see that recently ....uh ;-)
Or escalate the situation.

Have a look at the bottom of this post:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x395249

A Norw. journalist in Iran, being welcomed by most, but not by the demonstrators hired by the government.

[rman]

54. It's a little more then posturing

Much of it is done by governments for sure, but embassies actually were set on fire - and more importantly, it gets played by the media as though those are 'real' riots; as though the apparent anger of the rioters is in fact representative of how the population at large feels about it. And most people still believe that what the media say is essentially true and accurate.

I think it serves more important ends then deflecting attention from problems at home - unless war is also a way to deflect attention from problems at home.

[rman]

55. selfdelete

[donheld]

48. Kick

:bounce:

[rman]

50. Norwegian newspaper reports: fake radical protesters

from a Du thread
Iran - some perspective
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x395249

A translation of excerpts from an article (in Norwegian) published yesterday:
http://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/2006/02/12/457555.html

I'm jumping out of the car and walks towards the demonstration. 60-70 iranians are shouting slogans against Norway, Denmark and the USA. Broken windows and dark spots on the white building is sad to see. Now, a little hour after the demo startet, the situation is seemingly under control. Riot police keeps demonstrators away from the building with shields and batons. The demonstrators shouts «Down with Norway», «Down with Israel» and «Allah is great». I hide my Norwegian passport to avoid their anger.
Three young people walks towards me. «We're ashamed. Embassies is supposed to be a place where people should feel safe. The demonstrators are idiots. They're few and doesn't represent the opinion of the people», the students say. When they hear I'm from Norway, they excuse the behaviour of the demonstrators even more. «These people doesn't think, they just follow orders. No one dare to demonstrate on their own in Iran. These people have strong forces behind them. It makes us sad and scared», says the students.
The three young people aren't alone in making excuses outside the partly destroyed Norwegian embassy in Iran. A number of Iranians comes by to say they're sorry. And ashamed. «We're 70 million people in Iran. The demonstrators are fewer than hundred. They're sent from the government», a man says.

[genie_weenie]

51. Well thought out and written

You have written a well reasoned and thought-inducing piece here.

But, don't the problems run deeper? Haven't people, from pre-written word days, always sought to create divisions? To set the world up on this Us V. Them ideal? (Insert Group) are the righteous, the keepers of knowledge, the *True* people? Isn't the UN set up to ossify the current World Order? I haven't seen a Push for Democracy to get a new nation-state for the Kurds, the Basque, Free Quebec. No change.

Haven't demagogues across the globe capitalized upon the cartoon incident? HAsn't it allowed them to rail and bemoan the evils of (insert group) and cement their subjects pre-formed belief systems? Didn't members of many faiths condemn their subjects in 2004 over the Tsunami? Our people (insert group) have incured the wrath of (Karma, their ancestors, God, Allah, Jehovah, The Angry Sea, the Flying Spaghetti Monster)!

Doesn't man seek to accentuate the differences in himself from others and then focus all his attention on ensuring those differences are made clear?

Even your excellent post chooses sides.

Just my thoughts on our divided world.

[Ganja Ninja]

52. I have a theory about what the problem is with the Muslim world.

The problem is the same problem we have right here with right wingers and evangelicals in America, its chickenhawkism.

It’s people that will readily shout for war and vengeance while they themselves have no intention of going anywhere near the fighting.

The problem is hypocrites and cowards that that show a hypersensitivity toward injustice against the Palestinians, while ignoring what goes on everyday in other Muslim countries, including their own, simply because the atrocities are being done by Muslims to Muslims or because their governments tolerate criticism of the foreign devil but not the domestic one.

People who cheer every time there is another terrorist attack should realize one thing. They are, in part, the enablers of George Bush. Without the attacks on 9/11 Bush would never be able to do what he’s doing and planning on doing.

[rman]

53. Looking at what's behind US reli fundies,

namely big capital, and looking at who stands to benefit from that which the fundies support (wars, reduction of civil rights, state religion) - namely also big capital,

one has got to wonder what's behind the Islam fundies.

Do we have global big capital fomenting civil unrest and wars everywhere, to their own benefit?

[centristo]

58. i think they realize this

and want Bush to fight back. I think many in the Muslim world (at least the Prez of Iran and Osama) want WWIII so that they can "take their pride back". I don't believe the constant demonstrations against Israel and America are done just because the people have nothing better to do.