Hunters Saying Story Doesn't Make Sense

[leftyladyfrommo]

1. Were they hunting too late in the day? There is a limit - there it would have been about 6:30 at nite.

2. Did they have the proper license required in Texas? Probably not.

3. Were they shooting from their cars? - Considered to be really tacky.

4. Were they imbibing? Not illegal on private land but pretty dangerous.

5. The story about the quail doesn't make sense either - one covey had flown up. Then another covey was flushed. According to the hunters any quail in the whole area would have flown at the first shot. The story about Cheney seeing a second covey flushed later - the covey that he shot at - doesn't hold water.

[montana500]

1. very interesting....

There is clearly more to this than meets the eye.

[Deep13]

2. Safety rule #2

Always point the muzzle in a safe direction, know your target and know what is beyond it. It is the shooter's responsibility to to make sure he doesn't hit the wrong thing.

(Rule #1, of course, is to assume that every gun is loaded.)

[Dhalgren]

3. Yeah, the more I hear this story the more "fabricated" it sounds...

[mwb970]

26. They probably used the reporting delay to make up a good lie. (n/t)

[Fuzz]

39. Exactamundo

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. Thanks for this information

My late stepfather hunted for decades, and was always very careful. He would look at anyone hunting from a car with pure disdain. He was a conservative and a member of the NRA. I'm wondering how many folks like him are wondering a bit about Cheney now.

[cally]

5. Do you need a license to hunt on private land?

What if the animal is raised to be hunted? I guess all the hunters are shaking their heads at my ignorance.

[Jackpine Radical]

8. Not in Wisconsin. Game farm hunting doesn't require a license.

Most likely that's true in TX too, but I don't know that.

[havocmom]

10. it's a good question. Some states have less rules for private preserves

and canned hunts. The question is valid to help understand this incident. :thumbsup:

[RebelOne]

33. This is from the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department's

hunting rule and regulations:

A hunting license is required of any person, regardless of age, who hunts any animal or bird in this state (except furbearers, if the hunter possesses a trapper's license). No license is required for nuisance fur-bearing animals.

[havocmom]

38. Thanks

Now, any way to find out if Cheney had that and if so, out of state or resident license.

That last part is a biggie.

[sui generis]

6. when I heard that he came up BEHIND cheney

and then got shot by Cheney my bullshit meter went off too. Was the old dude sprinting across the field? Did Cheney leap into the air, whip his twin shotguns out of his crossed shoulder hosters and fire from the hip before gracefully completing the martial arts flip and landing on his crashcart?

:shrug:

I'm an enquiring mind, and I want to know.

[Gormy Cuss]

9. And as other DUers have noted,

How does one come up behind the VP with all those SS agents around?

[havocmom]

12. ESPECIALLY if people are carrying guns! Was the victim also hunting?

The SS would have been watching VERY closely.

[converted_democrat]

37. I've wondered that too..n/t

[slor]

24. I am a visual thinker...

and that cracked me up! :)

[BuyingThyme]

7. #1 looks like a good point. Did their lie put them in the dark?

Anybody know specifically when it went dark there?

[Richard D]

11. Here ya go

11

Sun Set: 6:16pm
Twi: 6:41pm
Twi N: 7:08pm
Twi A: 7:36pm
Moon Rise: 5:07pm
Moon Set: 6:28am

On Edit:

Civil Twilight
Civil twilight is defined when the sun is 6 degrees below the horizon. This is the limit at which twilight illumination is sufficient, under good weather conditions, for terrestrial objects to be clearly distinguished; at the beginning of morning civil twilight, or end of evening civil twilight, the horizon is clearly defined and the brightest stars are visible under good atmospheric conditions in the absence of moonlight or other illumination. In the morning before the beginning of civil twilight and in the evening after the end of civil twilight, artificial illumination is normally required to carry on ordinary outdoor activities.

Nautical Twilight
Nautical twilight is defined when the sun is 12 degrees below the horizon. At the beginning or end of nautical twilight, under good atmospheric conditions and in the absence of other illumination, general outlines of ground objects may be distinguishable, but detailed outdoor operations are not possible, and the horizon is indistinct.

Astronomical Twilight
Astronomical twilight is defined when the sun is 18 degrees below the horizon. Before the beginning of astronomical twilight in the morning and after the end of astronomical twilight in the evening the sun does not contribute to sky illumination; for a considerable interval after the beginning of morning twilight and before the end of evening twilight, sky illumination is so faint that it is practically imperceptible.

[BuyingThyme]

17. Looks like they had good light.

[napi21]

16. No, but it was probably still light at 5:30PM.

I lived in TX for 6 years, and it stayed daylight a bit longer than here on the east coast.

The story I heard about Cheney shooting a man who was behind him was that when the covey broke, he picked a bird, and folllowed it around 180 degrees keeping it in his sight then fired. I spoke to my husband this A about this. He has been hunting since he was 9 years old, and hunted a LOT of birds. He told me, at hunts like this, the hunters usually walk the field side by side, and you do follow the bird, BUT you DON'T swing around and shoot the guy beside you!!!!! Ever since he heard this last night, he has said this VP is a real IDIOT! Lots of hunters get shot because of stupidity, but the incidenets are usually because some dumba** shot into moving brush because they "thought" there was some game in there moving the bush, and turned out to be a hiding hunter, or long shots while deer hunting and some idiots do mistake a man for a deer! It's a very rare if ever that shooting accidents happen like this one!

[hwmnbn]

13. Alright!!.. we can now officially add Quail-gate....

to the growing list of scandals. It's not the shooting, it's the lying about it!

[Viva_La_Revolution]

14. misinfo misinfo!

1. incident happened at approx. 5:15pm, right before dusk TX time.

2. License was aquired in Nov.

3. got out of car to shoot.

4. Probably

5. Tame birds *might* not have been flushed so easily.

that said - there was obviously gross negligence involved, and his license needs to be revoked, and he needs to charged. I'm sure we can expect to hear charges have been filed any minute now.

[niyad]

19. was it a resident license?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

22. doesn't say... just this

"Cheney purchased a hunt license in November, Texas Parks and Wildlife Department spokesman Steve Lightfoot said."


http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20060213-0658-cheney-huntingaccident.html

[CottonBear]

23. How do we know they were shooting from cars or trucks?

Maybe I've missed this part. Heck. I didn't know you could hunt quail form vehicles. I know Mrs. Armstrong was in a car. We know Cheney can't stand for long periods of time (VP debate sitting down, almost fell down at WH ceremnoy after knee artery operation) or walk anywhere. Did he get out to shoot or was in in a vehicle. I have no doubt he shot the poor bastard. He must be mighty careless. :(

[Viva_La_Revolution]

31. "Katharine Armstrong, the ranch's owner, said...

... said the accident occurred after Cheney, Whittington and another hunter got out of a car to shoot at a covey of quail. She said Whittington went to retrieve a bird he shot. Cheney and the third hunter, whom she would not identify, walked to another spot and discovered a second covey of quail."



http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=227692006

[chelsea0011]

15. Any shooting requires a full investigation by the authorities. Correct?

The media keeps reporting this as an accident but that can't be determined until findings of an investigation are released. Even if this is an accident the VP could be charged with reckless firing of a weapon. Can't he? Believe it. This will get no investigation and will be brushed under the rug. Imagine any authority getting Cheney to sit down for an interview? Never happen.

[CottonBear]

25. Apparently, TX law requires Doctors to report gunshot wounds to police. nt

[MellowOne]

18. If this isn't an accident

Then why would Cheney want to kill this guy?

[chelsea0011]

34. Having the media calling this an accident assumes that Cheney

has had a finding already determined. Only an investigation can make that determination. It can also be determined to be an accident but the VP can still face charges of reckless discharge of weapon. The media by constantly assuming this was an accident makes it seem that Cheney can't be held responsible for anything. They should be reporting of the claim that it was an accident.

[MellowOne]

42. That's all well and good

but did Cheney want to kill this guy for some reason and hiding it under the cover of an accident?

[EstimatedProphet]

40. Because Cheny needed the blood to invoke Cthulu

[LincolnMcGrath]

20. Cheney's Chappaquiddick

[Avalux]

21. My father says the story is bogus.

He's a hunter safety instruction in PA, so he really doesn't hunt the way they do on ranches in Texas.

But, what he did tell me was this - a responsible hunter ALWAYS knows where members of his group are before firing. What happened was just plain carelessness.

[mike_c]

27. the blood lust was on him bad....

All those dead birds. Cheney snapped. It will eventually emerge that he wasn't actually found licking the bleeding victim and masturbating-- instead, Cheney was resuscitating the wounded man while trying to dislode a scorpion in his pants. Really.

[Norquist Nemesis]

28. About the imbibing...

I don't think Cheney would have been drinking. With his heart condition, I'm guessing he's on pretty strict orders not to have alchohol. :shrug: At least that's what my BIL's doc told him after he had was put into the hospital unexpectedly for a heart attack. And Cheney's had something like four surgeries on his ticker?

Nah. They weren't drinking.

[pitohui]

36. cheney is alcoholic w. multiple DUIs

he was drinking and so were his huntin buddies

you can take that to the bank

btw my parents have had bypass surgeries and they were only told to stop drinking during the first few weeks, now the cardiologist recommends a glass of red wine w. dinner ea. night -- only one glass but for an alcoholic even one glass would lead to another and another so assuming cheney receives similar advice he's prob. stinkin drunk most of the time

having heart disease doesn't mean cheney don't drink; if alcoholics stopped drinkin for mere health reasons there would be no alcoholics

[tanyev]

29. When has a story out of this misadministration EVER made sense?

:banghead:

[SammyWinstonJack]

30. Dead eye Dick probably was using the lawyer for target practice in lieu

of the SS practice range.

[Czolgosz]

32. Were they imbibing? Unquestionably. It's a South Texas hunting tradition,

but if you think Cheney has to be drinking to shoot a senior citizen, you haven't followed his career very closely.

[Czolgosz]

35. Look at the delay in seeking treatment; that's clearly "sober up" time.

If it wasn't an emergency, he wouldn't have been life flighted from the outlying hospital to the city hospital. So it must have been an emergency, but then the question arises why the delay in first coming to the hospital's emergency room? Ask this question of South Texas hunters, and "sobering up time" is the explanation that 9 out of 10 South Texas hunters will give you.

[flyarm]

41. i just heard on Tom Hartman 70 birds were killed and

i asked my husband who is an avid hunter...( american indian) ...and i asked him did he ever hunt with anyone who killed 70 birds..he said no never..he said that is just not done..no real hunter would kill that many birds..and no licence would allow any hunter to kill that many birds..

now my husband was shot many many years ago..while hunting..and one of the pellets entered his eye..he underwent horrible surgery..and my husband has a patch on his retina..he was one of the first in the country to have that surgery..by a Chinese dr..its the smae surgery that sugar ray leonard had after it was done on my husband..the pellet that went into my husbands eye detatched his retina..( hubby was very lucky and sees well with his eye..but the patch will be there forever)

accidents do happen hunting..today my husband does not hunt very much as it is a real sticking point with me..
it was horrible for me when he was shot..it was trumatic..in fact..of course he went through the physical trauma..but i went through the mental and psych. trauma...



but that aside..my husband said no real hunter would kill 70 birds..he said its unheard of..

and thats what Tom Hartman said a few minutes ago..

this was killing to kill not sportsmanship!

fly