Does anyone else wonder about the morality of zoos?

[chimpymustgo]

I love seeing the panda at the National Zoo, and this is the only way I'll get to see a panda anytime soon. But an elephant there was recently euthanized - basically the eleplant house is too small for the animals. The Zoo is expanding the elephant house, which is a good thing, but many zoos across the country do not have anything close to the proper environments for many of the animals. I have been to some smaller town zoos that left me feeling heartbroken for the animals.

I know the zoos provide education and entertainment many children and many others. But I always leave feeling a little sad. Anyone else?

[kick-ass-bob]

1. The North Carolina Zoo is a natural habitat park

and I hear people complain about having to walk so much.

I enjoy that zoo a lot.

[leftchick]

12. yeah and they lost two elephants

and a chimp in the last two years. :(

[foreverdem]

2. I feel the same, basically

It's really great that children, and adults for that matter, get a chance to see animals they would probably not get a chance to see any other way. But like you, I wonder about the consequences to these animals of not being in their natural habitat, constant exposure to gawking, sometimes antagonistic people, possible mistreatment, or being in an environment that is really not the proper size for them.

I don't go to the zoo anymore, I leave depressed.

[Book Lover]

3. I don't wonder - I outright don't approve of them

I don't need to see a rhino in the flesh to learn about them. Aren't field and other scientific reports better teaching tools than seeing a rhino wandering in her pen, away from all other animals?

[leftchick]

4. it bothers me as well

I don't go to zoos. I believe wild animals belong in the wild. To say a Zoo is for education of the public is BS, it is for profit period. Same with the circus. It is disgusting using animals for human entertainment.

[maxsolomon]

5. hell yes i do - but not the morality

i prefer the ETHICS. i especially hate seeing the species at the top of ecosystems basically in prison.

the following should NOT be in zoos:
Elephants
Wolves (they really really hate it - it's pitiful)
Bears
Great Apes
Whales
Porpoises
Big Cats

its hard to know where to stop this list. i suppose the logical extension of this feeling is to get rid of all zoos. the only logic i can see is the preservation of species that will otherwise be wiped out by overpopulation & human greed.

in the interim, i would like to see all elephants located to refuges where they can create family groups of 10-20. most of them are probably too emotionally crippled to do it succeessfully, but it would be a worthy experiment.

and bring back the buffalo! beef sucks!

[Maraya1969]

6. It depends on if they are dedicated to animals. I have an issue with all

of this too but I will go to one that has good facilities for it's animals. I have a lot of trouble with Bush Gardens keeping whales and dolphins in tanks and having them perform for us. I just don't go. I also refuse to go to any circus that has elephants and other animals in it.

[Butterflies]

7. Yes, sometimes zoos look like prisons for the animals

When the animals are in small cages where they have no opportunity to run around and get exercise it's sad. And I often think it must be awful for them to never have any privacy. It's a degrading way for those beautiful creatures to live.

[chimpymustgo]

11. That's part of what I feel too: it's degrading to the animals, being on

display. Stared at, pointed at. And some of them are so lethargic, I worry that they are depressed.

[indie_voter]

8. Me too. I hate going to the zoo

I've taken my kids and when they ask if the animals like being away from their real homes, I tell them the truth. 'No'

Thankfully neither of my kids like to visit the zoo, so we have only had to go a couple of times (school or playgroup related).

I am not going to cry when my kids completely outgrow the zoo stage (no more school fieldtrips, etc) and we never have to darken their door again.

[sui generis]

9. Both ways

Zoos and private wildlife preserves are sometimes the only places an endangered species can survive, much less reproduce.

If you understand how much "territory" an animal in the wild naturally traverses in search of resources and mates, it makes you cringe to see an eagle trapped in a small aviary or cage; to see an elephant or a giraffe or an ostrich where it can't wander or run.

It varies by zoo and budget. The Dallas Zoo has two bald eagles that would have been euthanized a long time ago - one of them landed on a tension power line and burned his legs off, and the other had a wing shot off by a hunter.

Zoos are also important places to learn and practice exotic species veterinary care in controlled environments.

I hate that we take an animal native to Africa or some exotic tropical island and put them in a zoo in north America, either because there is no other way to save their species and/or to entertain the masses. I also in some cases see that raising awareness of the strangeness and wonder and beauty of the natural world is done in zoos to children who are young and impressionable and to adults who may be called upon to help in a conservation effort.

There are pros and cons to having zoos - pros and cons to humans. It's all cons to the individual animal.

[MountainLaurel]

10. National Zoo is horrible

Which is one of the reasons why I won't go there: They've had many animals die over the past few years because they were not in a proper environment, or they were being given the wrong food, or the rats were killing them.

Actually, I don't like zoos at all, really. They make me cry.

[Glimmer of Hope]

22. I agree. I used to liver near the zoo and went there often.

Some of the animals looked depressed and the rats were everywhere. The pandas seem to be treated very well but I worry about the others.

[garybeck]

13. I have 3 kids. We've NEVER been to the zoo

I consider them a jail.

The only time my kids have ever seen a zoo is when their relatives take them.

I suppose some have more humane treatment than others, but the concept is the same. Why support it? It also makes me sad to see all the animals trapped in their tiny cages.

[Beaverhausen]

14. Los Angeles Zoo is a disgrace- Elephants died recently

Bob Barker - a longtime friend of animals - is calling for the zoo to release all of their elephants.


http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2006-02-11-bob-barker-elephant_x.htm?csp=34



Posted 2/11/2006 7:26 AM


Bob Barker pleads for elephants' release
LOS ANGELES (AP) — Bob Barker pleaded with city officials to close the Los Angeles Zoo's pachyderm exhibit and allow its three elephants to retire to a sanctuary.

Celebrities like Bob Barker say aging elephants should be retired to a sanctuary.
file

Appearing jovial when he arrived at Friday's City Council meeting, the veteran game show host and longtime animal rights activist turned serious when he began to talk about the zoo's elephants, Gita, Ruby and Billy.

"I came here today to ask, to beg you ... to vote to release those elephants from that zoo," Barker said. "They have lived in misery."

Gita and Ruby are ill, leaving only Billy on display. A fourth elephant, Tara, died in 2004.

Several zoos nationwide, including San Francisco's, have closed their elephant exhibits.


MORE AT THE LINK

[Wickerman]

15. I used to refuse to go to Zoos

I appreciate that many zoos have changed their habitats to maore natural and humane settings.

[jayfish]

16. Two Sides Of The Coin.

Our local zoo is atrocious and when my wife wants to take the kids there I fight it as much as I can. It has small enclosures and nearly all of animals show signs of stress. About an hours drive away there is a much larger zoo that has a preserve like setting and I don't have as much of a problem with that one. I used to be against zoos altogether but lets face it, before too long the only place for many species to survive extinction will be zoos.

Jay

[nickinSTL]

17. Every good zookeeper shares these feelings

Good zookeepers truly care about their animals.

Modern zoos have a 4-fold mission:

Education - people are more likely to care about animals if they have seen them and have some idea what it is they are supposed to care about - at least that's the theory

Research - there are kinds of research on habitat, diet, and other needs of animals in the wild that just can't be done in the wild. For instance, if the exact nutritional needs of a species isn't fully understood, it is impossible to know what is needed in a habitat to support a population of that species. And a full analysis of an animal's nutritional needs is next to impossible in the wild.

Entertainment - this is the one that brings in the money. Not the one I'm most keen on...but it is there

Conservation - zoos are doing great conservation work. The St. Louis Zoo, along with several others, for example, contributed a large number of Arabian Oryx from their collection to an effort to repopulate the species in its natural habitat. The species had been wiped out in the wild. Zoo-bred animals were reintroduced, and there is now a thriving population.

Like many of the others in this thread, and every good zookeeper, I wish that zoos weren't necessary. But, the good ones do provide a vital service, in my opinion. Use zoos to educate. Be open with children (or others) about the ethical concerns of keeping animals captive. And educate them, as well, about what zoos do in research and conservation.

Newer zoos are striving to improve the habitats for the animals. They will never be perfect, because it's still captivity, but they are improving in many places.

[HereSince1628]

18. Zoos generally over represent charismatic megafuana educationally

the result is that most adults have a very poor sense of the world's true animal diversity.

Unfortunately, natural reserves for many of the large critters are disappearing. So much so that even game parks are often more exotic animal farms than nature.

Providing gorillas a half acre enclosure is like providing human prisoners an exercise yard...necessary to keep the caged healthy but hardly providing the ecological context the species evolved to live in.

[pitohui]

19. it's more moral than pretending animals do not exist at all

people don't care abt what they don't see, and especially children don't

we see it over and over again, even in a class of people better educated than most, right here on DU, the majority do not know even the basics abt animals, we see this every week or so in the birds/cats discussion where many of the cat fanciers betray a complete and total ignorance of what wild animals are and what north american eco-systems are

the lack of empathy for genuine wild animals (birds) versus fake wild animals (feral cats) may be irksome, but it is not going to change, human nature is what it is, we care most abt what is constantly in front of us and so the fake is allowed to crowd out the genuine because the fake is closer to our experience

therefore the only answer is a way to bring some genuine wild animals close, to give them the opportunity to stake their own claim on human imagination, and zoos and animal parks properly run do a very good job of serving that purpose

no parks and no zoos, no opportunities for the masses to see that animals are real w. real feelings, flesh and blood, even as you and i, and the masses will be viscerally incapable of caring abt any except the very tiny numbers of domestic pet species that they do get a chance to bond with

without regular contact, most humans simply can NOT bond or empathize w. animals

it is a weakness in our imaginations, i suppose, but "field reports" are not going to capture a 3 year old's mind and teach her that animals too have beating hearts

[pdxmom]

20. While I understand the question and share the concerns, I also

know firsthand the good that some zoos are doing. Ours here in Portland have some things that really disturb me and I wasn't much of a fan. But then my daughter got involved in their "ZooTeen" program - which is pretty much the only program of its kind and magnitude in the country.

Teen volunteers put in at least 10 hours a week all summer, working with education and conservation projects with the zoo. They teach kids and adults alike. The change I have seen in my daughter - from her ability to speak and interact with the public to her knowledge regarding animals and the ecology - have been amazing.

This program is run by only 6-10 adults and encompasses about 250 teens each summer. The teens are put in positions of authority and monitor, schedule, and assist each other. My daughter is a team leader and has earned the opportunity to work with the zookeepers during the school year and learn more about what the zoos are like behind the scenes. She is thinking seriously about studying marine biology and working to improve conditions along the coasts.

She also sees the disadvantages of the zoos and has come home concerned about certain issues, but the zoo also listens to these concerns and works to address as many issues as it can. I believe that while there is certainly a lot of room for improvement, these facilities have a huge potential to educate and help change opinions in the public.

[kahleefornia]

21. some zoos are great

The san Deigo Wild Animal Park is very impressive. That's the first zoo that didn't make me sad. The animals there have very large, natural looking enclosures with lots of things to climb on, hide behind, play with, etc. The larger animals have enormous areas of space - like the giraffes and other "herd" animals. In their case, having a wide open field to live in, free from predators, hunger, and bad weather...it's hard to say that living wild would be better than that. I remember the Phoenix zoo being nice as well.

The LA zoo is an abomination, though. Horrible, small, smelly, noisy...bad in every possible way. I won't go there ever again. Also frightening is walking past the old cages that still remain in Griffith park - iron cages with cement floors, no bigger than about 8 ft by 8 ft that used to house bears and chimps. Amazing that people could ever consider that anything but cruelty.

[kskiska]

23. In Macedonia the other day, a lion and a baby llama died

from the freezing cold. They were in barred cages with no heated area for them. The baby llama was too young to be taken from its mother.