FWIW, I'm really disappointed in my fellow DUer's today!!!

[Dawgs]

In the past two weeks we found out that...

1) Valerie Plame WAS an undercover covert agent when she was outed; therefore a CRIME was committed.
2) Later we found out that Cheney was the one that instructed Scooter to out her; therefore Cheney should be found guilty of TREASON.
3) Today we find out that Valerie Plame was working on IRAN; therefore Cheney/Scooter/Rove were hurting our efforts in the "War on Terrorism".

...but instead,

Most Duer's would rather discuss Cheney's nothing mishap.

:shrug:

[Boredtodeath]

1. I'm with you, Dawgs

DU is a waste of effort today.

[johnnie]

2. I think it's just because it was announced yesterday

And also that it is almost surreal. It's not often that a vice president shoots someone. This place is non-stop 24 hours a day and it will continue to move forward like it always has.

Don't be disappointed, just be patient.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

3. Does It Matter What We Talk About?

Nothing said here seems to amount to anything ever. I mean, even the Democrats try hard to look the other way, just to appease our King and leaders in the congress.

I hardly think spending 2 days discussing this "incident" will make much of a difference. The powers that be are going to continue doing crap to destroy our country, and take away our rights.

If anything, it helps bring a little levity to an therwise deplorable situation with our so-called democracy.

[MsKandice01]

35. I tend to agree with you there...

We've been discussing scandal after scandal on a daily basis here for months and what has happened? Nothing. The Bush Administration is still doing whatever the hell they want with no accountability to anyone. Tomorrow, there'll be a new scandal uncovered and another the next day, and so on and so on and the Busheviks will continue to destroy our democracy unabated until the Repukes in Congress decide enough is enough, which I don't see happening any time soon. A few days of fun is not going to change a thing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

89. Hear hear I agree!

It's not like we have a formal agenda here and are obliged to stick to it and abide by Roberts Rules.

The evil VP shot a friend! My heavens, that is news.

I have also seen several threads on the other topics mentioned on the OP.

[JuniperLea]

4. Having the same thoughts here...

I only had a chance to check in here a couple of times and the pages are diluted with this dumb story.

[txindy]

5. No problem.

1) We always knew Plame was undercover.
2) We always suspected that Libby wouldn't even breathe without Darth's prior approval.
3) The VP SHOT a man, did not speak to the police, and left the state. That's news.
4) We are capable of processing more than one news item at a time.
5) This is yet another thread about Darth, no matter whether it approves or disapproves of
the discussions about his 'accident'.

[Der Blaue Engel]

6. Whatever takes them down

I'm in favor of talking about.

These posts about "disappointed," "ashamed" of DUers for discussing the latest crime committed by this cabal boggle my f*cking mind. There's no way this incident does not tie into the others in some way.

There are thousands of people on this board posting like rabid fiends 24 hours a day. I think we can handle two topics at once.

[Demit]

7. So instead of complaining about what other people are doing wrong--

start a thread yourself about what you want to talk about. Make it say something. Make a cogent point about the subject that interests you. Man! I hate self-righteous types.

[Dawgs]

22. I thought I was making a point...

Do you think it's more important to talk about Cheney and his hunting accident, or the fact that the man should be found guilty of treason. It seems to me like most of the people on here are more interested in discussing Cheney's hunting accident than something that actually matters.

Can you least explain why this is a big story? Yes, it's interesting, but it certainly doesn't look like a "cover-up". Yes, the Bush Administration is full of criminals and idiots, but I don't see how they did anything wrong in regards to this accident. Everything is not a conspiracy.

[txindy]

33. He shot a man, refused to speak to the police, and left the state.

And you don't see how they did anything wrong? The victim was transported to a hospital. That hospital believed his injuries weren't "superficial," as the WH spin machine claims, and sent him on to a Trauma Center at another hospital where he's been in the Trauma ICU for two days with no end in sight. And there's nothing to see here? Meanwhile, the Secret Service kept the police from speaking to the VP (and they did that on HIS orders), who left the state at the earliest opportunity. Nothing here, hmmm?

Yeah. Sure.

[Dawgs]

48. I'm not saying there's nothing in this story,...

I just think there's other stuff to talk about.

[txindy]

51. You asked this question and I answered it for you.

Can you least explain why this is a big story? Yes, it's interesting, but it certainly doesn't look like a "cover-up". Yes, the Bush Administration is full of criminals and idiots, but I don't see how they did anything wrong in regards to this accident....

It certainly is a big story and they are scrambling like mad to cover whatever really did happen. At the very least, the VP evaded police questioning and left the state. No small thing, that.

You do realize that the more you talk about this, the less people talk about other issues, right? Not that it matters to me, I can do both, but you did specifically complain about the lack of other thread topics, yet.... Does the word "irony" mean anything to you?

[Dawgs]

57. Okay, well...

It certainly is a big story and they are scrambling like mad to cover whatever really did happen. At the very least, the VP evaded police questioning and left the state. No small thing, that.

Maybe that's were I have a problem. Unlike you, I think it is a small thing. I think him evading the police is a minor issue. I don't like it, but it's just not that important. Yes, it makes them look stupid, but we already knew that.

[txindy]

68. His evading the police is a minor issue to you?

That explains an awful lot. Thanks for the clarification.

[Stephanie]

8. Shooting a guy in the face is nothing to you?

Covering it up until the next day, refusing to cooperate with TX authorities, that's nothing? Staying on a remote hunting ranch with the lithesome Ambassador to Switzerland, nothing? Hah! We have had scandal after scandal and they continue to get away with it. Finally we have a scandal that every red-stater can understand. Party on!

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dawgs]

26. Yes, it's nothing to me.

I feel sorry for the guy that was shot, and I find it interesting that it was Cheney that did it, but I don't see that much more in this story. I certainly don't see how it affects me.

[Stephanie]

42. Well let me see -

You're grandchildren will be paying off Cheney's war-based-on-lies debt for the rest of their lives, Cheney is incapable of telling the truth about anything, he shoots a guy and refuses to talk about it, you don't see a pattern here? You might not have health insurance, but he's a got a whole MASH unit flying around the country with him on his private plane, but that doesn't affect you I guess, you're just paying for it. Here's a guy who wants to secretly spy on you but he doesn't want to reveal the circumstances of how he managed to shoot a guy in the face, but that doesn't affect you at all. He's probably mentally impaired due to his medical condition, impaired enough to not tell the difference between a man and a bird, but you don't mind if he runs our national defense, that's fine with you, doesn't affect you. Let him shoot whoever he likes! That's Just Dick!

[Dawgs]

46. You're kidding right...

In the OP I explained that I thought it was more important to discuss Cheney being tried for treason, but you think I don't care because I'm not interested in the Cheney hunting accident this weekend.

Geez, you act like he shot the guy on purpose. If I'm wrong then I'm sorry, but it doesn't look like he did, and if you want to investigate something then help me find out how we can put him behind bars for treason.

At least read my posts if you're going to respond like this.

[Stephanie]

47. I read your post

I think it matters if the VP shoots a guy in the face. And then tries to cover it up. We have been discussing the treason for two years solid. I have been discussing it extensively. Today I prefer to talk about the Vice President of the United States SHOOTING A GUY IN THE FACE. I think it's INTERESTING NEWS.

[Dawgs]

58. Well, if you read it, then why did go after me for "not caring"?

Hmmmmm....

[Stephanie]

77. Oh. I guess you didn't read MY post.

My post was about why you should care that Cheney SHOT A GUY IN THE FACE.

You're grandchildren will be paying off Cheney's war-based-on-lies debt for the rest of their lives, Cheney is incapable of telling the truth about anything, he shoots a guy and refuses to talk about it, you don't see a pattern here? You might not have health insurance, but he's a got a whole MASH unit flying around the country with him on his private plane, but that doesn't affect you I guess, you're just paying for it. Here's a guy who wants to secretly spy on you but he doesn't want to reveal the circumstances of how he managed to shoot a guy in the face, but that doesn't affect you at all. He's probably mentally impaired due to his medical condition, impaired enough to not tell the difference between a man and a bird, but you don't mind if he runs our national defense, that's fine with you, doesn't affect you. Let him shoot whoever he likes! That's Just Dick!

[tnlefty]

91. At the very least it again demonstrates that he and others in this

administration think that they are above the law. They're convinced that they are above the rule of law and flaunt it. I have to think there will come a time when your 'average joe' is gonna get tired of having his nose rubbed in this arrogant behavior.

[JuniperLea]

50. I think all of that is immensely important!

It's just a little frustrating that given the limited time I have to check in on the news, all I'm seeing is this... and all the re-hashings and regurgitations I've read on that matter were all of my own knee-jerk reactions, questions anyway.

I really wanted to read people's reaction to Brownie's testimony over the weekend... and the 60 Minutes piece on the missing $8 billion.


I'm betting that 90% of the first five pages are about Cheney's bird hunt.

[Solon]

9. Blowing off steam with some much needed levity is a good thing...

DU was getting way to stressed out lately that Cheney's mishap couldn't have happened at a much better time, doubly so considering that his victim isn't apparently in a life threatening condition. Comedy is a great stress reliever, and it won't last long anyways, as a dominating force on the boards, so I say kick back and enjoy while you still can, then get back to serious business.

[malaise]

13. That's my view

Haven't had such a good laugh in a while

[WillyT]

38. Bingo Solon !!! - Right On The Mark !!!

This place has always had its cycles and rhythms. Every now and again the frustration and stress build up, and the board can get really cantankerous, even down right rude and belligerent. To each other.

Then a story comes along that brings out the joys of being on this here board, and you can imagine the smiles forming border to border, ocean to ocean.

The steam is let off, and we carry on.

Peace...

:hi:

[montana500]

10. Politics 101

There is a very real reason the Bush admin tried to cover up this shooting. It's a political embarrasment. It only ads to their problems. Cheney in the spotlight = bad times for the Bush admin in an election year.

This story is very, very helpful.

[Dawgs]

28. I'm sorry,

How stupid of me to think that Cheney outing a CIA agent would be more helpful.

[WilliamPitt]

11. The Posting Police

Awesome.

[jus_the_facts]

20. "They're comin' to arrest me....Oh NoOoOo!"

www.cheaptrick.com

[WillyT]

44. Heh...

:evilgrin:

[Dawgs]

Whatever William Pitt!!!

I'm not saying you guys can't post whatever you want, I'm just saying that it's disappointing the focus is on an "ACCIDENT"(yeah I said it), and not on a more important story.

Blah, Blah, Blah... the Bush Administration is dumb, and can't handle themselves. Yeah, yeah we know.

[Dawgs]

52. Whatever William Pitt!!!

I'm not saying you guys can't post whatever you want, I'm just saying that it's disappointing the focus is on an "ACCIDENT"(yeah I said it), and not on a more important story.

Blah, Blah, Blah... the Bush Administration is dumb, and can't handle themselves. Yeah, yeah we know.

[cry baby]

12. I, too, have been trying to ignore the cheney shoots...threads.

My hope is that this story will pass pretty soon. I did enjoy the "scotty tries to deal with this subject" thread, however...a guilty pleasure I guess.

[MADem]

14. You CAN do it all

You can IGNORE the threads that you are not interested in, you can even fix it so you don't see them. And then you can respond to the ones that you ARE interested in.

I think the hunting story is great, and I am enjoying the hell out of the clever takes on it. Hyper-seriousness, 24/7, is not conducive to maintaining enthusiasm. And some of the crew here have come up with some incredibly witty discussions of the event.

Use the search feature, find the threads that motivate you, and discuss away--no one is stopping you. 122 folks found the Plame-Iran thing interesting on just this one thread, so go for it: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2105487

[Sydnie]

15. I think it is cabin fever coupled with all the issues that have

been coming out since the beginning of the year really. We are being giddy and silly today but that doesn't mean that we aren't paying attention. It just means we are letting go of a bit of the stress that has been building up for the last 6 weeks. Alito, spying, lost funds in Iraq, Plame, Abramoff, Brownie ... all work and no play makes us very dull, one dimensional people.

A one day vacation is just what the doctor ordered, for me anyway.


We'll be back in the saddle tomorrow.


P.S. have you had a look at the players in this Fuddgate mess, one step removed? Albaugh, Haliburton, Funeralgate ... it's all relative isn't it?

[otohara]

16. Most DU'ers -

that's a pretty broad statement. Sounds like something a "pundit" would say.

[applegrove]

17. No. We don't have #2. There is a gap there. We don't have that

Cheney told Scooter to out her. We don't. Seems as obvious as the nose on our faces. But we don't have testimony of this.

[Dawgs]

87. Then why aren't we trying to find out if he did?

I'm more interested in that than finding out why they didn't tell the press for 18+ hours.

[applegrove]

93. ? Sure let's talk about the important issues. And hey there is an

investigation going on.

[montana500]

18. Do you think we can afford to "pick and choose"?

We haven't been that fortunate the past six years. So when a story comes up that makes the other guys look moronic, why would Dems want that to go away? So rare...... We can use anything we can get.

[Dawgs]

34. I apologize, but I don't think this is a "funny" story...

Yes, we don't like Cheney, and it's nice to see him look like a fool, but I don't see how an eldery man getting shot in the face is funny.

[EarlG]

21. I know there have been a lot of jokes about this today

But I think there's more to it than that. See this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x403634

Beetwasher makes the point that this is a "glaring symbolic opportunity" and I think that's spot on.

Also see this story:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/13/national/main1309344_page2.shtml

Notable for this quote:

"It's clearly an accident, but the fact that the White House didn't release this information, that it sat around for almost a day is, in itself, bizarre," Time magazine's Matt Cooper told CBS News' The Early Show. "Late-night comics are going to be all over it. You know, these things — fairly or unfairly — tend to become a metaphor for a presidency and don't be surprised if you see lots of jokes about the vice president was trigger happy, or he might have had better aim if he'd served in Vietnam."

It's that perfect meta-discussion that the media loves to have with itself - like Al Gore inventing the Internet, or John Kerry "looking French" - except this time it's in our favor. Look what Cooper said:

"Don't be surprised if you see lots of jokes about the vice president was trigger happy, or he might have had better aim if he'd served in Vietnam."

What does he mean, don't be surprised? He just said it himself on live television!

Seriously, this incident is not meaningless, it's as Beetwasher said, a symbolic opportunity.

[Lerkfish]

39. agreed!

[BR_Parkway]

23. I can see why Darth's aim would be a little off and his hands shaking

[Solly Mack]

24. I would rather walk barefooted across broken glass than to ever lower

your estimation of DU'ers.

But right now I'm chewing gum and I can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

Lighten up, Frances.

[cantstandbush]

25. I couldn't agree more. But DUers can only badger our Dems in Congress

to do something about the REAL issues of today.

[McKenzie]

27. I hear you friend

shit happens on line shoots even though swinging past the line is a big no-no; assuming it was a line shoot. I think that's what must have happened and it's not unusual even though it's a shitty thing to do.

The revelations about Valerie Plame are absolute dynamite. I'm stunned the story is not spead all over the press, teevee and radio. Actually, I'm not so much stunned as pissed off because I think I know the probable reason.

A-covert-agent-was-deliberately-compromised-and-the-ability-to-effectively-monitor-nuke-proliferation-was-seriously-damaged. The fact that it is not being debated AND the fact that the shooting thing has been all over the msm at this exact time makes me a tad suspicious.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

29. Not to mention the hearts...don't I look cute in mine?

Hey, I watched Senator Dodd on CSpan orating on the tax bill and posted it for support. All work and no play...:)

[Lerkfish]

30. if that disappoints you...

If that disappoints you, you are artificially creating an unrealistic standard.
let them let off steam...they'll be back to business tomorrow.

[kwyjibo]

31. How many threads are there talking about how many threads there are

talking about the Cheney shooting? I'm sick of the subject too, but if that's what people want to talk about, complaining about it is just going to clutter up GD even more.

Perhaps starting or kicking a thread on a real subject would be more productive than taking up space with more of the "shut up about Cheney" threads.

[NV Whino]

32. Think of it as comic relief

We need a good chuckle once in a while.

Not to mention the incident is a symbol of the ineptness, arrogance and stupidity of the entire maladministration.

[Rude Horner]

36. Each one is a straw...

that will break the camel's back. I thought this was just a "fun" story up until a little while ago, and now I see that on cnn.com and msnbc.com, they're starting to talk about how this is strange that it wasn't reported for 24 hours. That's negative press, and negative press for this administration in any manner is good for us.

See, to me it's the CONSTANT barrage of bad stories coming out of this administration that is going to do them in. While some may want to focus on the BIG bad stories, I think what's going to turn the tide is the NUMBER of bad stories. ONE bad story, and people can forget. CONSTANT bad stories and people start thinking it's time for a change!!

[Dawgs]

41. Good point. I agree with what your saying.

I've been thinking the same thing lately. If 60% of Americans think he is already doing a poor job, then more "bad" stories will only help keep the numbers that high.

[goodboy]

37. Shooting someone in the face, lying about it, 'working it out' with the

po-po is also a crime.

[bigtree]

40. i've got threads with other subjects that dropped fast

none with Dawgs on 'em
:D

[endarkenment]

43. Those are indeed all very important issues.

However the Cheney thing should not be ignored. It has media legs. It isn't a 'nothing mishap'. Perhaps you haven't paid attention to what we have learned so far. This whole thing plays into the very powerful meme of the cabal as a bunch of incompetent corrupt arrogant assholes. We have been handed a gift they are going to fail to spin their way - but spin they will, and the more they spin the worse they are going to look and the more transparent their whole machinery of public manipulation is going to become.

I think we have the bandwidth for this scandal too.

[derby378]

45. Hate to tell you this...

...but all three points, at least to many DUers, are old news. We're all on standby waiting to see where Fitzgerald takes the investigation next, but Nero and his administration aren't going to make it easy.

[Dawgs]

49. Wrong...

All three stories are new. Yes, many DUers were aware of the facts, but the actual stories are new.

Again, I'm not saying ignore the Cheney hunting story. I'm saying that it's not the only one.

[JuniperLea]

55. I prefer to ignore it, actually

in my quest to find more topics... I've gone back 8 pages and it's all I'm seeing, over and over and over and over... same points, same comments, same information... Nothing new, no new thoughts on the matter. Everything I've read here are the same exact points my b/f and I made upon hearing the story yesterday for the first time... nothing more... and it took us 10 minutes tops to discuss.

I'm not saying DUers should change their ways... well, maybe I am. Maybe people like me who don't spend as much time here should just take a chill pill and deal.

Well, lunch hour is over. Back to the salt mines:)


Hopefully there will be something "new" by 6:00pm PST when I get to check in again... :(

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

53. The VP shot and nearly killed someone.

How dare you talk about it!

"Nothing mishap?" Stubbing your toe is a "nothing mishap." Shooting someone with a 28 gauge is not. If this isn't a story, nothing is.

Get a clue.

[JuniperLea]

56. Hahahahahah!

He wasn't nearly killed. You so funny:)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

60. How far away was he from death?

A foot? A yard?

"It was such a safe shooting!" :freak:

[JuniperLea]

66. Nearly killed...

Would mean that the wound he received nearly killed him.


Excuse me... please. I mean no nitpicking, I have spent the last four hours going over PR contracts and the wording is precise.



He wasn't nearly killed, meaning his wounds were superficial. Coulda woulda shoulda... had he been closer, yes.


Jeez.


The butchering of the English language that goes on around here makes me crazy... I don't mind the infractions themselves, but when people don't realize that their words denoted something completely different and then they proceed to argue their point...


Maybe I need different work...

[txindy]

72. The first hospital had him immed. transported to one with a Trauma Center.

He's been in that hospital's Trauma ICU for two days now. You believe that indicates "superficial" wounds? Why, because the WH says so? Oooookay, then.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

75. It was a "superfacial" wound.

snick, snick :rofl:

[JuniperLea]

83. DOH!

heh!

[JuniperLea]

82. Yes, it does.

Old men with any kind of trauma wounds go into ICU. It was a trauma injury, hence ICU Trauma. Had he suffered a heart attack, he would have gone to ICU Cardiac. Big names mean nothing in hospitals. No real mystery there.


No, I don't believe what the WH says... any of it, but I don't don the ol' tin foil at every little mystery either.

[txindy]

96. What tin foil? The first hospital had him transported to a Trauma Center

Although I imagine they had their own ICU at the first hospital, too. Maybe the doctors there should be fitted for tin foil? Or are they just afraid to treat seniors? Please. :eyes:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

73. If you stepped out in the street and were just missed by a speeding

bus would you have

a) been nearly killed, although unscathed
b) been in ICU because it was superficial
c) chuckled and laughed about pepper, silly

[Dawgs]

59. What's there to talk about?

Do you have something new, or do you just want to make fun? Many of the posts on this subject are about making Cheney hunting jokes. Personally I think it's a sad story. Many here are intent on taking Cheney down over something that looks like a terrible accident.

Maybe I'm just not that cruel.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

64. You're right.

Why take Cheney down over something that looks like a terrible accident?

Poor Cheney-poo. :cry:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

54. Thankfully, I'm Not Here To Serve You. Otherwise I'd Actually Care You

were disappointed.

Are there not any other threads right now circulating on topics other than the cheney incident? In LBN? In GDP? In GD? Oh, There Are? Tons of Them?

[Dawgs]

62. Okay thanks, but...

If you don't care then why did you respond?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

70. Cause I'm Gifted Enough To Have Opinions Even On Things I Don't Care About

[EstimatedProphet]

61. This was not a 'nothing mishap' by a long shot

Here's why:

The freepers will of course try to spin this as much as they can. but for the average rural red-state voter that isn't a freeper, that goes hunting a lot and knows hunting etiquette, and that lives in an area where this administration is always pumped up by the locals, there will be a lot of questioning going on. Rural people know hunting safety-they live it. They don't 'accidentally' shoot fellow hunters-that's the sort of thing those hated cityfolk do, the ones that don't belong out in the country anyway.

Don't think they won't start questioning things now. This might not be the kind of scandal that politically aware people pay attention to, but it is the kind of thing that will ruffle a lot of feathers in the rural areas.

[Dawgs]

65. Fine, but why are many making jokes about it?

I'll admit that 'nothing mishap' was a poor term. I'm sorry.

I actually think this is a very tragic story.

[EstimatedProphet]

69. It is tragic, I agree

The poor guy who got shot is in ICU. That's not funny.

IMO the reason people are making jokes about it, myself included, is because we are seeing Darth Cheney caught in an embarrassing situation, and one that has been a very long time coming.

Myself, I am in favor of seeing people wake up to who these monsters are, in just about any way it takes. This is the kind of thing that I think will make a big differenc among people that we haven't been able to reach yet.

[ShortnFiery]

63. A guy still INPATIENT in the ICU is far from what can be considered ...

a mere mishap.

Remember: Capone got busted over tax fraud.

This is something that the Average American can relate to. If this is what it takes to get Cheney to resign.

So be it!

I'll continue to OBSESS without shame. :hi:

[Dawgs]

67. Do you have proof that he did this on purpose?

I've apologized for calling it a "nothing mishap", but I haven't heard or seen any evidence that this was on purpose.

Are we going to be as bad as the freepers and claim that Cheney tried to murder the guy just to bring him down?

[txindy]

74. Where did it say it was done on purpose?

I must have missed that part in the post you're referencing. I also missed the part where you "apologized for calling it a 'nothing mishap'." I did, however, catch the post where you said that Darth's evading the police wasn't a big deal to you. So, would it be a big deal to you had Gore done that? Shot somebody accidentally, refused to speak to the police, and left the state?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

80. Dawgs, I think we have reached critical mass. We no longer

have enough time in one day to discuss all the shit going on. And it is growing exponentially. If you read the transcript on rawstory of the press conference, it was wild. Granted, Cheney didn't purposely kill anyone, but its very obvious that they tried to figure out how to cover up the whole thing.

It will also make you sick because the press was dogged and it will make you wish that they acted that way about all the things you discuss in your post.

peace

[Steve A Play]

71. Sorry to disagree with you but

Most people don't know or care about Valerie Plame nor do they care or understand anything about how our intelligence agencies work. Many people also have been spoon fed crap from the media for so long that they just assume that Iran = middle eastern country = bad for America.

Many, many people in the US do know about hunting however, and they, for the most part, have had to undergo some form of hunter safety training to get their hunting license. The current 'disconnect from reality' that the Whitehouse is pushing about Cheney's accident is not sitting too well with many bush bots who hunt.

I was listening to four locals in a coffee shop this morning who were discussing Cheney's defense. They seemed awfully worried about how the Whitehouse was attempting to play "blame the victim" when every hunter knows full well that they are ultimately responsible for what they shoot, no 'ands, ifs, or butt's about it! Three of the four seemed to almost take it as a personal insult to their intelligence that the WH would expect them to believe such "BS". They may not know a thing about foreign policy, intelligence gathering, or the laws surrounding what the administration can and can't do. They do know about hunting and gun safety. They also know about the hunting laws and what would happen to them if they shot someone by accident. They also know that there is something terribly wrong with how this has been played out in the press.

The fourth guy kept saying "well I'm not sure about that" and "I don't know about that" and seemed more than willing to cut Dick some slack. In the end, as they were getting ready to pay their bill and leave, the fourth guy cracked me up by saying, "You're probably right, Cheney should just take one for the team and go back to Halliburton where he can do this country some good." :crazy:

On issues like the Plame outing, Iraq, Iran, and US or International law, most 'common folk' don't know enough to really comment one way or the other and they're likely to believe whatever 'spin' they hear from their party or in the press. You try to tell a hunter who has been taught from early childhood that they are ultimately responsible for where, when, and what they shoot, that the rules don't apply to someone else, they're going to know it's a lie. If they have any brains at all, they're going to start questioning what else they've been lied to about.

Steven P. :kick:

[Uncle Joe]

94. Well said Steve A Play n/t

[im10ashus]

76. To be honest, I felt the same way this morning.

Then after looking at all the information I know this story has legs and should be thoroughly investigated. There's a cover-up somewhere in this story so it should be given attention. Just my 2 cents. :shrug:

[txindy]

78. Yep, the more we find out, the deeper this story gets.

I can't think of anyone outside of the cabal and its supporters that would have a reason to squash this.

[lonestarnot]

79. Mine toooo, so now we have 3 cents, pretty soon fitty!

[mac56]

81. FWIW, I'm really disappointed in any DUer

who would tell us to back off this story.

[Dawgs]

85. Me too!!!

I never said to back off this story.

[w8liftinglady]

84. perhaps,it will enlighten some of the undecided...

Democrats need to learn to exploit obvious republican flaws,and appeal to many types of voters-not just the cerebral ones who actually "get" the Plame outing,but the ones who can understand the concept of "getting away with murder(almost)"

[Dawgs]

86. Fine,

but I don't think anyone is going to see this as "murder(almost)".

[mimitabby]

88. sigh

we've ALL KNOWN that the dick committed a crime, we've known it for months.
just because it finally has percolated through to the press doesn't mean it's news to us!

[Beaverhausen]

90. We've known #s 1 & 2 for months

That isn't really news to most of us.

[stepnw1f]

92. I'm with Ya!

Also, notice how the more important story gets lost when you do a search with Cheney's name on Google...?

[Garbo 2004]

95. Plame was working on Iran is the highest rated thread here at the moment.

Did you miss the threads where Tatel's unredacted opinion was discussed? (The one that contained info that confirmed Plame was still a NOC?) And that was merely confirmation of what we already knew. If she was not a NOC the CIA would not have referred the matter to the DOJ.

And by the way, it is not accurate that it was reported or confirmed that Cheney instructed Libby to out Plame. No doubt he did, but all Libby testified to as mentioned in Fitz's letter to Libby's lawyers, is that Cheney authorized him to leak info regarding a National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq. Not Plame. Libby in fact denied that he leaked Plame's name, which is precisely why he's been indicted for lying.

The Plame story has been a matter for discussion here for over two years. It's not going away, nor are we done discussing it. There is room on this rather large and active board for a number of subjects simultaneously.

The VP shoots someone and the Administration sits on it until they've got their cover story arranged and leaked to the press via a third party and no one should discuss it? Is it being discussed here to the complete exclusion of everything else? No it isn't.

[Joe Fields]

97. This IS general discussion, isn't it?

[Solomon]

98. You don't get it do you? Scandal 101. Outing operatives, bribery, etc.

too complicated for average people to get a grip on. Semen on a blue dress, shooting a fucker in the face, ... very easy for people to get a grip on.

This "accident" is a big story.

[ComerPerro]

99. I'm sorry, but how is any of that going to make a bit of difference

Are you suggesting that Cheney shot that guy as a distration?

Come to think of it, though, I wouldn't put it past him...