Brown, Hackett and a primary brawl (my last post on this tonight)

[WilliamPitt]

Raise your hand if you remember the 2004 primaries. They were totally bruising, as primaries are and are supposed to be, especially in a Presidential race.

Ask the Senior Bush about primary battles. Pat Buchanan basically de-nutted him in 1992, leaving him busted up for the general...and then Perot helped.

Ask Dole. Buchanan de-nutted him as well in 1996, leaving him totally depleted when he got to the general.

Primaries are savage. Often, the survivor of an inter-party thunderball is in no shape, financially or otherwise, when the general comes around.

No one disputes the idea that Hackett is a good man. But Sherrod Brown is also a good man, and frankly, he was there first. He did it the hard way. He ran for a House seat, and won, and served, and stood solidly for progressive principles. Now he is running for Senate.

Neither Hackett nor Brown, nor the Democrats, nor our need to take seven Senate seats and fifteen House seats in order to get those gavels out of Frist's and Hastert's hands, would have been served by a bruising primary smash between Brown and Hackett.

Two issues I have seen a lot here: One, that the people should choose who gets to serve. Two, party leaders shouldn't do that choosing. These dovetail, but deserve to be spliced.

1. Yes, the people should choose. But I repeat again the hard reality of what happens in a primary. This isn't the run for the Oval, where the need for primaries is absolute. We need to win 22 races this year, and having to good Democrats beat the shit out of each other would have served no one but DeWine.

2. First of all, I reject the premise that Reid and Schumer "chose" who would be the Senate candidate for Ohio. Hackett chose. Reid and Schumer pressured, sure, but Hackett chose. I'd bet you a shiny dollar that if you told Hackett that someone else was making decisions for you, he'd show you the rough side of his tongue.

Beyond that is a simple truth: I hate to break this to you, but party leaders have been managing who will and will not run since time out of mind. Richard Daly, JFK, Clinton, Lyndon Johnson...hell, a great deal of what any White House does during midterms is manage who will run and who won't and who gets the money and which districts are the softest, because that White House wants allies in Congress. The same is true for the party out of power. Before you or I get to vote, they manage things behind the scenes, recruiting candidates and gathering money.

Sherrod Brown is an excellent man who has paid his dues. Instead of flaming out over this, get behind him.

And tell Paul Hackett to run for the House.

A primary fight between these two excellent men would have served no one but the GOP. It was the right decision to make.

(donning flame suit)

[DemonGoddess]

1. Thank you for the post!

I am SO glad you brought up Richard Daley (the FIRST one). Because, what this looks/feels like to me is MACHINE politics. You put your candidates in the races that they can WIN, and you get behind 'em. I grew up watching just this sort of thing happening ALL the time....;)

[VolcanoJen]

2. Come to Ohio and tell us how we're going to win...

... how we're going to take Dewine's seat, Taft's governorship.

Tell us how we're going to flood Ohio with support, because we're the Kerry Campaign and we know Ohio is Battleground Central. Ground Zero.

Tell us how you understand the differences between central, northern, southern and rural Ohio. Tell us how hard you're going to fight for us, how you'll never give up.

Tell us, Al Gore's staff, how you wouldn't dare abandon Ohio in the waning days of the campaign. Tell us how important we are.

Let's all get behind Sherrod Brown. Let's fight for the status quo in my beloved, sweet home of Ohio. Let's watch it slip through our fingers even further.

I'm sorry, Will, but I'm really tired of being told to get over it and get behind whoever the Ohio Democratic Party annoints. You guys want to sell this disillusioned passionate lifelong Ohio Democrat a bill of goods, you'd best get to pitching.

I'm not buying it.

[WilliamPitt]

6. What is your problem with Brown?

[VolcanoJen]

14. For starters? Nobody in southwestern Ohio ever heard of him.

Statewide, we tend to annoint and run northern Ohio candidates. We just do a horrible job of developing southwestern Dems.

All recent statewide elections have been lost by the Democrats in southwestern Ohio. Food for thought.

The last time Sherrod Brown ran for statewide office was 1990. He was the incumbent Secretary of State. He lost. To Bob Taft.

I admire the progressive, excellent congressman Brown has been, but he can't win. Come to Ohio. Especially Cincinnati and the rural counties surrounding it.

[WilliamPitt]

15. Fair enough

Sounds like he'll need our help. PDA already has his back.

[VolcanoJen]

16. He'll need more than our help.

He'll need to convince southwestern Ohio Democrats that he's a winner.

I'm all ears.

[WilliamPitt]

19. I hope you're all shoe leather, too

:hug:

[VolcanoJen]

33. A-to-the-Men

But I want them to grovel, just for a little bit.

I'm just a little sore about the way it went down, don't ya know.

:hug:

[Epiphany4z]

56. I live in NE ohio

and Brown or Hacket could win here...it is the southern ohio where the problem is and Hacket was playing really well there.

I hope this works out for us because we need to get ride of republican rule...It just doesn't feel like good news to me.

[OzarkDem]

64. Then start educating them about him

Do your research, invite him down.

[VolcanoJen]

74. How deliciously, passively easy you make it sound.

Come on down, OzarkDem. Come on down.

[wakeme2008]

55. again thanks VJ :)

The only real question is WHO DOES THE REPUG PARTY WANT TO RUN AGAINST??? IMHO the answer is BROWN.

[lastliberalintexas]

3. Actually, Brown wasn't there first

And thus, my only real problem with him, even if I have several problems with the party. But Hackett had already declared and entered the Senate race, and apparently also already promised others he would not run for Congress, when Brown saw his opportunity to jump in and effectively steal the show, just because it was his time and he'd paid his dues. Happens all the time, but it still isn't right.

I've yet to see anyone bash Brown, but Brown supporters keep telling Hackett supporters to get over it and back The Candidate. A little too GOPishin thought if you ask me- though of course no one did.

[WilliamPitt]

5. I think that is in dispute

I have seen several posts referring to a Kos article that says this whole "Hackett was first" thing is wrong.

Regardless, what I meant by "He was there first" was that he ran for an office in Ohio and won before Hackett ever got into politics.

[lastliberalintexas]

12. That's part of the problem though

I've seen that kind of thinking way too often, and it usually saddles one of the parties with a bad candidate just because it's their turn. It's how we got Mondale in 84 and they got Dole in 96. I hope Brown doesn't turn out to be from that same mold.

I could give a shit if someone has been in office for 10, 20 or even 40 years. If they aren't the best candidate for THIS position, it's irrelevant. Brown might be, but you're not going to convince anyone with the longevity argument.

[WilliamPitt]

13. See post 11

[lastliberalintexas]

22. Post 11 has nothing to do with what I wrote

This isn't about which candidate is more liberal or moderate. People are pissed at the party "leaders", and scoffing at those concerns or, worse, ignoring them, won't turn Hackett people into Brown supporters. The best excuse you've listed for the party and Brown's behavior is that it was his time and he was due, and it's just one example of how much work needs to be done on the party.

[Tiggeroshii]

20. My understanding

Is that the DSCC leadership wanted Brown, but Brown said he wouldn't run. Hackett was then pushed by Reid and Schumer and then Brown eventually. Hackett gave a lot of hints he was going to run through spokespeople and so on, and then announced his candidacy. Right afterwards, Brown decided to go against what he told hackett and run for the Senate while Schumer and Reid also retracted their endorsement for Hackett. Those are, at least, the claims Hackett's campaign had made as these thigns were happening.

[TacticalPeek]

21. Kos is full of it, trying to revise the record to "fit the policy".

I find it quite disturbing the extent to which some seem willing to go to rationalize this travesty.

And the sense in which you refer to 'He was there first', as a party policy, is a sure path to stagnation followed by corruption etc.

Everybody there now is 'there first', but fuck that shit. I am sick and tired of being sick and tired of losing this country to a bunch of yahoos selling it down the river as fast as they can make the deal. I'll support candidates like Hackett but I'm not giving a damn cent to the DCCC or DSCC to squander, shooting themselves in the foot and making Karl Rove cackle with glee.

The only thing that can save the wretched Republicans from the ash heap of history is the fucking Democratic leadership, and they are well on their way.

[WilliamPitt]

23. But

Sherrod Brown is a really, really, really good Democrat.

[lastliberalintexas]

24. I doubt you're stupid

So you must instead be intentionally missing the points that so many people are making. No one has said that Brown is a bad Dem or even a bad guy. People don't like the backroom deal, the backstabbing and the same old bullshit coming from the party "leadership." And the responses from you and others? Brown's a liberal who should be supported- a complete non sequitur.

[TacticalPeek]

29. Exactly.

What you said.

It is very disturbing to me seeing this spin coming from Kos and others.

There is such a failure to engage that it seems like the worst sort of politicians on Crossfire just spin spin spinning until enough people are turned off and ignore the decline of the republic.

[VolcanoJen]

35. Incredibly important point....

... and it gets to why we keep losing elections in Ohio.

Nobody. Gets. It.

Fuck, yeh, I'd love it if Sherrod Brown were my congressman, but he isn't. Jean Schmidt is! Of course Brown is a good Dem, a progressive Dem, exactly the kind of Dem we'd want as our Senator.

Which is why he'll lose 58% to 42%. And he'll lose the election right here in southwestern Ohio.

That's why Hackett was the better candidate; he had a damned chance down here. But, feh, we'll just let the national leadership blow another huge opportunity by trying to tell Ohio Dems to get on the same page.

Nobody. Gets. It.

[MoJoWorkin]

59. Thank you, it can't be repeated enough---some here want to rewrite

history---just like the Repugs. The tactics these "party leaders" are using is just like the Repugs.

[dweller]

4. is this a good time to bring up Kucinich? ...

err ... okay, didn't think so ...

dp

[Charlie Brown]

7. Running a man with no office experience against an incumbent Senator

would be an uphill battle to begin with. I was kind of taken aback that he decided to enter this race to begin with. Let Hackett earn his political stripes in the House or on a city council seat for the next few years, and then try for the Senate. Brown seems like the more credible candidate between the two of them.

[WilliamPitt]

8. Bingo

[VolcanoJen]

75. Tired.

Think about it.

[LittleClarkie]

30. People appear to desire personalities first

over substance, which when you think about it is how we got into this mess in the first place.

[MoJoWorkin]

58. I guess you forget Ahnuld, and a few others without experience.

While Hackett is nothing like Ahunld, experience isn't EVERYTHING. People can win WITHOUT IT.

Hackett lit a fire, the DCCC just blew it out.

Brown won't win, no matter how good some people here think he is. Brown told Hackett he WOULD NOT RUN---giving Hackett the all clear. TO ME that 'aint being very trustworthy----again, no matter how good some think Brown is. Don't tell me that is politics, because that is NOT the politics I WANT. Hackett was crapped on, just like Dean was in 2004--- by HIS OWN PARTY! I AM SICK OF IT!!!

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

70. Yeah, because Hackett has Arnold's fame and money.

:eyes: If you see no difference whatsoever, you need more than just glasses.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

9. Sorry, Will.

Everything you say IS true, I agree 100%. But there is something else afoot here. I have seen it. I have been RIGHT THERE to see the utter and complete hamfisted haplessness of the Democratic party and especially the DCCC. I have seen good Democrats get beat up worse by the party then they were by the repukes. I have personally been dealt real dirt by the local party.

I am registering Independent. Such treatment of good people is beneath me. I do not associate myself with such idiocy. Elitist idiocy that hides behind that hoary catch-all, "pragmatism".

They can kiss my salty ass. Yeah, yeah.

[WilliamPitt]

11. This is the part I don't get

This whole conspiracy theory that the DCCC wants a centrist over Hackett, that Hackett is the only "good Democrat" in this race. It doesn't scan. Brown is a flat lefty, period and end of file.

Check out Brown. I'll bet you his policies are closer to yours than Hackett's. These are two good men...but one of them has paid his electoral dues.

It's funny. This site rails against "centrists" and the DLC...but when the DCCC backs a true progressive over an untried candidate, we freak out. It's wierd.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

26. No, it's a lot more than Brown and Hackett.

The Democratic Party is hidebound and Beltway-bound. Moribund. Self-satisfied, although for the life of me I cannot see justification for that. They do not know the pickle they are in and they are pushing away the clear activist voices they so desperately need, the ones who bring energy and commitment to any effort. They think they still have the reigns of power and lawdy, they don't. They are stumblin', bumblin' and fumblin'.

Nah, I don't need their shit no mo'. Been through enough with them. I given all I can give. A man has to know when he is whipped and I am whipped. They don't want me and the candidates that are good and can win.

Hence, I will no longer support them. Good, progressive candidates? Yes, always. But like I said, The Democratic Party can kiss my salty ass.

Your mileage may vary. I expect it does.

[VolcanoJen]

38. It's the geography, stupid.

And I mean that clearly in the "reference" sense.

Is anyone seriously arguing that Brown is a centrist? Good God, if he was, he might have a chance at beating DeWine.

The DCCC is clearly backing the progressive candidate. I'm proud they've chosen to do so, but it has more to do with "paying dues" than winning. Hackett is progressive as all get-out, but the DCCC doesn't trust him. They'll throw their $$$ to Brown, and he'll lose, and they'll scratch their heads, wondering how that happened.

Six years later? Rinse, lather, repeat.

Welcome to the Ohio Democratic Reality.

[Charlie Brown]

41. Will moderates in Ohio vote for someone w/no political history?

I'm not saying they wouldn't. I don't know the state very well. But where I live (GA) the only people who ever win Senate primaries are either current House members or state-wide office-holders like Attorney General or Lt. Governor. A lot of people just wouldn't vote for a candidate who hadn't developed thick political skin, and fewer would vote for them against an incumbent Senator.

I know Hackett is popular right now (on DU, anyway), but what does that say about his ability to attract every-day, non-political voters. Would they take a chance on a dark horse with no history, or vote for the incumbent?

[VolcanoJen]

48. Only thing he has is his impressive showing in OH-2

OH-2 is the most solidly Republican district in Ohio.

He, a DEMOCRAT, came thisclose to beating Jean Schmidt (!!!) in the special OH-2 election.

Now, I know there are many party regulars and status-quo junkies that want to discount the "Cincinnati Miracle." They'll call it a special, they'll call it out of the ordinary.

Indeed. Republicans turned on their own status quo in droves to vote for Hackett. Political history meant jack shit in Ohio during the OH-2 special.

We've got to bring voters into the party, especially in states like Ohio, where we're bleeding. Hackett was the vehicle.

He's been thrown to the junkyard.

[Kerrytravelers]

43. Ding-ding... ding-ding... ding-ding

Being from that part of the country and having close family still in Ohio, and knowing the state faily well, it's all about how the candidate comes across. Having worked with Hackett at a fundraiser, and having family volunteer for him, I have a pretty good sense of how he comes off. And in rural parts of Ohio, he can speak their language. It's not that Brown can't, but perhaps... just perhaps... running someone who is even more to the left isn't the best choice in this case. This is all about paying dues. Maybe, in the end, we'll be happily surprised and have brown win, but no matter the outcome, if things appened the way it was reported, Hackett got the sucky end of the deal.

[Kerrytravelers]

44. Self-delet. Hit "post" twice.

[TacticalPeek]

27. I agree that Independent is becoming the more honorable choice.

It is hard to ignore that the Republican Party, the party of the elite fat cats, has gained enough popular support to completely control the government, with even the filibuster falling before them.

Decades ago they stopped putting up with the "pragmatism" and bit the bullet, suffered losses for years until their discipline paid off. Two can play that game.

I'm half-watching "The Best Man" now on AMC, and it is really ringing true about the idiotic nature of electoral politics.

[WCGreen]

10. Well said, Mr. Pitt....

That energy that would have been directed at a potential Hackett Brown race can now go toward tebuilding the grassroots infrastructure in Ohio...

It's not broken... Just a little neglected....

[incapsulated]

17. Business as usual

How has that been working for us? :eyes:

This party is one or two elections away from being a fucking footnote in history and the party machinery continues as if we have a million tomorrows.

[Twist_U_Up]

18. How are they going to defend this ?

-- Rep. Sherrod Brown wrote to Sen. Mike DeWine last Friday, voicing concern about Supreme Court nominee Samuel Alito's labor record.

Brown's language was crisp -- and was plagiarized.

Roughly 90 percent of what Brown, an Avon Democrat, wrote in his letter was lifted from an Internet posting by a blogger, as Brown's office acknowledged Monday when The Plain Dealer presented the similarities.

Brown had not credited the blogger, Nathan Newman of NathanNewman.org, or any other source.


http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1131445870289970.xml&coll=2

The neo cons will stuff this down his throat every time he opens his mouth. Ohio died tonite

[radio4progressives]

25. naaahhhh... we're just gonna coast right on in with our pretty smiles and

nope, sorry Will.

it is said sometimes extraordinary circumstances call for extraordinary measures, something other than politics as usual.

just in case, it may have slipped your mind, we are in extraordinary times, and something other than politics as usual is required.

Hackett's intentions to enter the Senate race was known in advance. Brown's intentions to NOT to enter the Senate race if Hackett intended to, was also known in advance.

Emmanuel's & Schumer's & Reid's machinations are destructive, wrong headed and frankly a loser's bargain to boot.

Speaking as one PDA member to another, YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER than to write this insulting missive.

[TacticalPeek]

32. Right on!

:kick:

[LittleClarkie]

28. I never did understand why Brown should be considered

the lesser of the two men and the villain somehow because he dared to run against someone that DU rather liked for his strong war stance. From what I've been able to glean, Brown is indeed a good and progressive candidate, and there were those who are progressive who were not terribly happy with the fiery but more centrist Hackett.

I too wish he'd run for the House again. Firebrands are better served there.

[incapsulated]

34. He won't run for the house because

He had already promised the three people already running that he would not. I respect him for not becoming another political slimeball willing to go back on his word, like the people who are screwing him.

This isn't about hating Brown which is not happening here. Ohio is not a liberal state. That is what made Hackett's near miss last election so impressive, that a Dem could nearly take such a red district. They obviously regarded this "firebrand" Democrat as someone who is honest and outspoken, but very appealing, even to serial republicans. He is someone who makes sense in such a political atmosphere. Why Brown is touted as "more liberal" as some deciding factor makes no sense, especially since Hackett is pretty damned liberal by most standards. That is no endorsement in Ohio. I thought we wanted to win, but I guess it's more about who the hacks have decided is "next in line".

[LittleClarkie]

37. I thought we wanted to win too

but what will work in a Congressional campaign will not necessarily work in a Senator campaign. I'm not sure if his House showing is enough to indicate that the entire state would be interested.

And it still sounds like you object to Brown because he is not Hackett. Must it be a Senatorial conspiracy as opposed to a difference of opinion as to who would be the better candidate?

[incapsulated]

42. If it was a conspiracy..

They haven't hid it very well. They have been very openly trying to push him out of the race since Brown decided he wanted in. The whole thing has been stinking for quite a while.

That is what I object to. Do I prefer Hackett to Brown? Hell yes, and I'm not trying to hide it. He has many of the qualities I've been saying that democrats need to win for years. The fact that he nearly took a district that has been solid republican for decades tells me he may well have wiped the floor with most republicans in a more diverse districts. He has proven that he has the crossover appeal that will be necessary to win state wide.

[MrSlayer]

31. I said this very thing in another thread.

Not as elaborately though of course. I agree completely. We need to rally Hackett to run for the House seat again.

[Pachamama]

36. Fine-so a "Primary Battle" was avoided...but Brown won't beat Dewine and

Hackett would have beaten Dewine in the end because moderate Republicans disgusted with the direction the country and Ohio have gone under the GOP and its representation by Dewine would have been willing to vote for Hackett, a likeable, moderate and Veteran. They will not view Sherrod Brown that way and that, pure and simple, will be why no matter how much money and support Sherrod Brown has from the Dem Party and PDA, that he will not unseat Dewine.

Believe me, I think the GOP and Dewine are high-fiving the decision of Hackett today....they were worried about Hackett...they aren't even going to sweat about Brown.

So, I disagree with you strongly on this one Will....a primary fight between these two men may have been not a pleasant fight for us to watch, but I think that the GOP would have been desperately hoping that Hackett didn't win and now that has been avoided.....I think this is a big big mistake strategically and I'll put money on the fact that Brown will not unseat Dewine.

[VolcanoJen]

40. Agreed, and strongly, Pachamama

That's it, exactly. And that's what we were never able to get across...

It's All About The General, Baby.

I'm so incredibly disappointed. Not surprised, just crushed.

[Pachamama]

45. Jen - your'e in Ohio and have been in the trenches...you know this is so

true....hearing your feedback just further confirms this in my opinion....

I'm still in shock....I can'y believe this isn't glaringly obvious to any "strategists" in the Dem party...

I wonder what Howard Dean thinks...my guess is he would agree with us...but then again, he is the money guy...Reid made this decision....which I will say may just have guaranteed another term for Dewine :puke:

I'm so sick....I also wish Hackett would reconsider his future to not abandon elected office...then again, he may be living proof of why "good people" don't run for office....

[VolcanoJen]

47. My question is WHERE THE HELL WAS DEAN?

He can't just be sitting back and letting this happen... he MUST have a hand in it.

I'm sickened and disappointed, especially with Dean as Chair.

[MoJoWorkin]

61. This was done to Dean, so I can't see him standing by either----

I hope he was not a part of it.

I understand that the DCCC is responsible, and people like Schumer, etc, sure have NOT worked with Dean or supported him in any of his efforts or statements. Dean supported Obama to the hilt, for example, and Obama could not bring himself to support Dean in his statements(at least he could have said he hadn't heard Dean's statements and would not comment, but NO, he had to jump on the anti- Dean bandwagon. That has happened over and over again with practically all the Dem Senators, so I really doubt if he had any input. Party organization, and fund raising seem to be the only duties they will "let" Dean have.

I think it is the powerful Washington insiders, once again, who are running things. I had hoped that Dean could make a difference. However, if he was involved, I am done with him, too.

[Pachamama]

72. Lavalady-Don't be so hard on Dean...he had nothing to do w/ this!

Remember, Howard Dean is someone that they on the one hand needed (fundraising) but on the other hand fear (because he isn't easily controlled and skips to his own beat). They keep him in check by really only have handed him the fundraising job and the microphone as little as possible.

This however doesn't stop Howard....look here at a post from this morning that shows what Howard thinks about the whole mess w/ Paul Hackett:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2110125

[Kerrytravelers]

46. Well said.

[OzarkDem]

65. Hackett was 20 points behind in the polls

if he couldn't beat Sherrod Brown in the primaries, he wasn't going to beat DeWine in the general.

Reality sucks, but voters were turning against Hackett. Ohio voters have never been in favor of new, inexperienced candidates for the Senate. Never.

Hackett was going to lose, period.

[TacticalPeek]

39. The bosses should have kept Brown out of the Senate race.

That would have been a service, and kept a sure thing House seat for now and Brown could have run for Voinovich's seat later.

Hackett would have paved the way for him statewide.

When our leadership repeatedly snatches defeat from the jaws of victory, it kinda makes you wonder.

[Hekate]

49. Thank you Will. Let cooler heads prevail

Once again you lay it out so anyone can understand.

I really hope Paul Hackett will be able to figure out a way to go back to his district, look them in the eye, and say "Well folks, let's kick some Mean Jean butt." And then win the race he lost by only a few points in the first place.

Hekate

[msgadget]

50. And, this is why both parties feel like commodities to be manipulated

...party leaders have been managing who will and will not run since time out of mind. Richard Daly, JFK, Clinton, Lyndon Johnson...hell, a great deal of what any White House does during midterms is manage who will run and who won't and who gets the money and which districts are the softest, because that White House wants allies in Congress. The same is true for the party out of power. Before you or I get to vote, they manage things behind the scenes, recruiting candidates and gathering money.

That doesn't make it okay for me. In fact it pisses me off all the more even though I see the cold logic in your words. But, can you consider how agressive the republicans have been? Our current one party system has radically changed the landscape and they did it not by being cautious but by ruthlessly ripping the democrats a new one every single opportunity. It's time for a radical response from the left. Why not try backing a populist candidate with all they can muster? DeLay just got a seat on Appropriations and was on TV today with Robert Novak...but dem strategists would rather put a guy who says what they won't - that the president is a liar - out to pasture than take a chance that he offends people who already hold him in contempt for being a democrat. You can't tell me that's a winning attitude. Damn it, maybe a few real people in elections is exactly what we need to get a real debate going among the masses. Perhaps that's the last thing either party wants but that's what this country needs to break the shackles of partisanship that only benefits the party muckety mucks. Brown is a great guy but Ohio deserved a shot at deciding the horse they wanted in the race just as republicans deserved that right in '00 when the right smeared McCain.

Come to think of it, the left deserved a right to decide who they really wanted in '04 and now it looks like the '08 decision has been made for them as well.

P.S. I love your writing but I don't love the political machine - this ain't chess.

[wakeme2008]

51. DNC gets NO money from me

And I am bookmarking this thread to remind you about how great Dewine is when he loses.

The only question here is WHO DOES THE REPUG PARTY WANT TO RUN AGAINST??????? IMHO that is "liberal Ted" Dewine.

[wakeme2008]

54. Sorry could not get back to correct Brown for Dewine.

:)

[nomatrix]

52. Will, you didn't mention John Conyers

Hasn't Brown been a partner with the Black Caucus in the House? Didn't he work with Conyers on the voting problems in Ohio? I'm not able to vote in Ohio, but I think it would be good for the Senate to have another strong former House member who is not afraid to challenge.

This is not to dismiss Hackett.

[VolcanoJen]

53. I wish Brown had stood up to the voting discrepancies in Ohio.

He did not.

It took a Congressman from Michigan to stand up for Ohio Voters.

Why isn't anyone railing about that?

[OzarkDem]

67. He did

do your homework, you're starting to look ridiculous.

[VolcanoJen]

71. Explain to me this....

... why did it take a congressman from Michigan, John Conyers, to take a true leadership role on the Ohio voting discrepancies?

Isn't that a job for Sherrod Brown?

Call me ridiculous again. You're cute.

[mikehiggins]

57. Of course. Democracy is all fine and good, but the leaders know best

Just look at what a truly fine job they have done over the last decade or so.

Politics as usual, Mr. Pitt, will result in results as usual: the GOP stays in control.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

60. Politics as usual....in an oligarchy.

The system is corrupt.

[farmbo]

63. Sherrod Brown is Not Politics as Usual.Trust me.He was my CongressCritter.

He will use a Senate seat to push progressive values for working people. Just look at his record.

He also has the charisma and debate skills to drive those Red State NeoCons nuts.

And if the Dems perchance take the senate...we'll see Karl Rove in Hell!

[Rowdyboy]

62. There you go again, making sense and everything.......

How can folks nurse their grudge against the "party establishment" if you keeping talking sense?

[Ohio Joe]

66. I see your point

And I believe your correct that the focus should be on winning seats, so I will vote for Brown. I do have two issues though, first that people in another state decided who I would vote for as my senator and second that I really believed that Hackett would have been the best choice.

[converted_democrat]

68. Born and raised in Ohio.. My family is still there.. Brown will never

carry the state.. Mark my words.. Hackett lost by the skin of his teeth in the most rabidly repuke district that there is.. He appealed to both sides of the fence.. Brown doesn't.. Brown is known as a liberal, and liberals don't win in Ohio. Hackett was the only one with a shot at carrying the state.. The vast majority of my family is puke and they loved Hackett for the way he stood up to *. Brown does not appeal to both sides of the fence.. Brown will not carry Ohio.. Mark my words..

[GeorgeGist]

69. An excellent man? I'm confused.

"Beyond that is a simple truth: I hate to break this to you, but party leaders have been managing who will and will not run since time out of mind.


Sometimes – in politics and in life – we have to choose sides. We have to draw a clear line between what's right and what's wrong. Between what works for the people of our great nation and what works for only the privileged few.

Sherrod Brown - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-sherrod-brown/why-im-a-progressive_b_12536.html

Enjoying your privileges Sherrod?

[cantstandbush]

73. Brown will lose because of this incident. Dems just aren't savvy. n/t

[AngryAmish]

76. Don't you mean "intra-party thunderdome"?

Thunderball was the James Bond movie. Thunderdome was in "Mad Max3: Beyond Thunderdome" where there are duels inside the thunderdome. The motto was "Two men enter, one man leaves."

Just being pedantic. Forgive me.