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Some say that Sherrod Brown cannot win because he is a liberal

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More Than A Feeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 10:59 AM
Original message
Some say that Sherrod Brown cannot win because he is a liberal
They now sound like the DLC. What happened to standing up for our ideals? There was a lot of talk about that. Sherrod Brown does that (as everyone knows, otherwise they wouldn't be calling him a "liberal who can't win").

I don't like Schumer/Reid's allergies to primaries. I don't like that Hackett felt the need to take a parting shot. What purpose did that serve? I don't like that Brown dilly-dallied before getting in the race, only after Hackett was begged to run.

This whole thing is crazy, and people's reactions to it are even crazier. Hackett was not the biggest liberal in this race. Sherrod Brown is not a member of the DLC.

Reid and Schumer still fucked up.

Crazy.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think a difference between "liberal" and "progressive" is emerging
The lines of demarcation are still being argued over, but even The West Wing noted that a lot of left-wingers now choose to identify themselves as progressives instead of liberals.
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More Than A Feeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. What do you think the difference is?
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. From what I've seen...
Liberals are the great defenders of Social Security, Medicare, and funding for education. Progressives are the new defenders of civil rights, environmental justice, and the military (as troops, not as an institution).
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Deleted message
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Uh... yeah.
Published on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 by CommonDreams.org
This is Your Story - The Progressive Story of America. Pass It On.
by Bill Moyers

Text of speech to the Take Back America conference
sponsored by the Campaign for America’s Future
June 4, 2003
Washington, DC


Thank you for this award and for this occasion. I don't deserve either, but as George Burns said, I have arthritis and I don't deserve that, either.

Tomorrow is my 69th birthday and I cannot imagine a better present than this award or a better party than your company.

Fifty three years ago tomorrow, on my 16th birthday, I went to work for the daily newspaper in the small East Texas town where I grew up. It was a good place to be a cub reporter – small enough to navigate but big enough to keep me busy and learning something every day. I soon had a stroke of luck. Some of the old timers were on vacation or out sick and I got assigned to cover what came to be known as the Housewives' Rebellion. Fifteen women in my home town decided not to pay the social security withholding tax for their domestic workers. They argued that social security was unconstitutional, that imposing it was taxation without representation, and that – here's my favorite part – "requiring us to collect (the tax) is no different from requiring us to collect the garbage." They hired themselves a lawyer – none other than Martin Dies, the former congressman best known, or worst known, for his work as head of the House Committee on Un-American Activities in the 30s and 40s. He was no more effective at defending rebellious women than he had been protecting against communist subversives, and eventually the women wound up holding their noses and paying the tax.

The stories I wrote for my local paper were picked up and moved on the Associated Press wire. One day, the managing editor called me over and pointed to the AP ticker beside his desk. Moving across the wire was a notice citing one Bill Moyers and the paper for the reporting we had done on the "Rebellion."

That hooked me, and in one way or another – after a detour through seminary and then into politics and government for a spell – I've been covering the class war ever since. Those women in Marshall, Texas were its advance guard. They were not bad people. They were regulars at church, their children were my friends, many of them were active in community affairs, their husbands were pillars of the business and professional class in town. They were respectable and upstanding citizens all. So it took me awhile to figure out what had brought on that spasm of reactionary rebellion. It came to me one day, much later. They simply couldn't see beyond their own prerogatives. Fiercely loyal to their families, to their clubs, charities and congregations – fiercely loyal, in other words, to their own kind – they narrowly defined membership in democracy to include only people like them. The women who washed and ironed their laundry, wiped their children's bottoms, made their husband's beds, and cooked their family meals – these women, too, would grow old and frail, sick and decrepit, lose their husbands and face the ravages of time alone, with nothing to show from their years of labor but the crease in their brow and the knots on their knuckles; so be it; even on the distaff side of laissez faire, security was personal, not social, and what injustice existed this side of heaven would no doubt be redeemed beyond the Pearly Gates. God would surely be just to the poor once they got past Judgment Day.

In one way or another, this is the oldest story in America: the struggle to determine whether "we, the people" is a spiritual idea embedded in a political reality – one nation, indivisible – or merely a charade masquerading as piety and manipulated by the powerful and privileged to sustain their own way of life at the expense of others.

More: http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0610-11.htm
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Big laugh over the "progressive" WAH! about Hackett's quitting
And after months of threads from "progressive purists" demanding that the Democratic party purge its ranks of this or that candidate who fails to live up to their lofty (if somewhat vague and shifting) ideals, moderate to right wing Paul Hackett quit on his own, leaving the field for progressive Sherrod Brown (endorsed by the PDA, not the DLC) and here they are besides themselves with rage because they imagine that the purge they've been calling for occured.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Opposing the semi-auto ban does not make one "right-wing"
...if that's what you're talking about.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Go cry about assault weapons to somebody who gives a shit....
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. It's more of a continuum than a difference
To me, liberals and progressives have the same basic goals and beliefs and values.

The difference is not like the split between the DLC and liberals/progressives.

The DLC and centrism are trying to pull the Democratic Party (and politics) to the right, and thus are forcing a tug of war in opposite directions.

Liberals and progressives are both pulling in the same direction. But the difference is in the extent and pace of change that one beliefs is possible. Thus both are trying to pull to the left, just to different degrees.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yes that strikes me as ironic too
It's be a lot easiert to get mad if the Dems had been backing some milktoast DLC centrist who they thought would be "more electable" because he took no position on issues.

But Brown is a true progressive in the mold of Paul Wellstoine and Bernie Sanders.

Nothin's ever easy these days.

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. Hilariously, many of the same people
are the ones who demand we purge moderate candidates and adopt the PDA stances...and now they're getting their knickers in a twist and imagining a purge because their golden boy QUIT.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. and many of the same people who want to make sure we have good Dems in
office think we need to make sure the quality of those Dems are good. I don't agree with those who are very upset at the party over Hackett being knocked out.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Another thing...
Edited on Tue Feb-14-06 11:16 AM by MrBenchley
It's hypocritical for someone to piss and moan that the Democratic leadership is "weak" and then attack that leadership whenever they make a decision. Especially when the attacks are so wrong-headed and unjustified.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. yes, there have been a lot of attacks on the leadership over the past mont
Edited on Tue Feb-14-06 11:26 AM by jsamuel
h that were baseless. Pissed me off... partially because it gives people like me who have criticism with logical thought and facts behind it a bad name.

Oh, and I did play that game finally over the weekend. It is racist :P
Racist against black peole and white southerners. Did you catch the radio station with the "I had children with my brother" song or something like that.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Sorry, I'm lost there...
Which game do you mean?

Hadn't heard that radio station? Can you elaborate?
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Grand Theft Auto San Andreas
Yeah, there was a country station where they mention a song about incest and it was an obvious hit on white southerners. Most of the game is stereotypes of black people though.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Ah! Thanks!
That truly is a disgrace, isn't it?
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-14-06 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. best analysis yet, thanks
Edited on Tue Feb-14-06 11:07 AM by jsamuel
Brown skrewed up by telling Hackett he wasn't entering.
Hackett is not the most liberal candidate.
Brown diserves a shot at Senator.
Reid and Schumer need to figure out that primaries are supposed to happen.
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