WTF just happened? The ER Chief doc became unglued and the PR

[Whoa_Nelly]

guy was taking "one more question", didn't like the question, tried to move on. THe ER Chief stepped in and responded to the question, the PR guy looked like "STFU" to the chief, and then the update was cut off.

So much like the Scotty press gaggle this AM.

Whoa! WTF is really going on????

[Rick Myers]

1. What about this...

Doctor explains cath procedure and says they consulted the White House, Mr. Whittington's personal doctor and his family? CONSULT THE WHITE HOUSE??? W T F ???????????

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. Was he implying he needed the WH's permission to treat the guy, or their

advice on how best to handle it?

[seemslikeadream]

2. got a little testy there

didn't he?

[trof]

8. Sure did. Why's HE pissed?

[seemslikeadream]

17. and Scotty must have KNOWN he was back in ICU

during the press conference. Why not bring it up Scotty? Maybe you weren't wearing your vest

[malaise]

Scotty had to know

afterall the heart problems took place at 6.30 this morning and he was out of surgery by 9.30am. This is going to get real ugly.

[seemslikeadream]

Can't ya hear David Gregory tomorrow?

Did you know Scott that the man had a heart attack during the press conference yesterday?

WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY ANYTHING????

[Roland99]

39. McCLIEllan's going to be missing a big chunk of his ass tomorrow.

[madokie]

78. something tells me snotty scotty won't have a press conference

He is close to the breaking point, this is coming from a person who was trained to identify this years ago in the navy.

[malaise]

44. What time was the press conference today?

The man had the heart attack at 6.30am Texas time. Scotty better prepare for David Gregory Round 2. What a fugging cover-up.

[mom cat]

68. Its always the cover up! Its always the cover up. Its always the cover up.

[ms liberty]

69. you're dead-on right there, mom cat!

The repukes always seem to think they can cover it up - they just never seem to learn...

THANK GOD!!!

[mom cat]

86. Yes! If they were educable, we would never have a chance!

[caligirl]

74. Can just see David Gregory( I prefer Stretch) growing horns

taking aim at Scotty's butt tomorrow.:evilfrown: :evilfrown: :evilfrown:

[ariellyn]

83. "Little Stretch". Heh heh, heh heh (Bush laugh)

:eyes:

[txindy]

32. He figured out who is going to take the blame for the guy's condition.

And it's isn't anyone in the WH.

[0007]

16. Very touchy...I think this doctor has a bad urinary infection and

it effected his rosy disposition.

:hi:

[CountAllVotes]

3. good god!

:wtf: is going on? Is this man not going to be ok? :(

:kick:

[Hobarticus]

4. They are getting leaned on quite heavily...

Witnesses, law enforcement, everybody involved is getting the hint: STFU.

[OzarkDem]

11. Surgeons like to do their own thing

I'm sure he doesn't appreciate a bunch of amateurs from the WH telling him what to do.

[Straight Shooter]

53. Bingo!

He's there to provide medical care, not run interference for the White House.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

70. Surgeons are pretty much god in the O/R

I'm certain that he didn't want PR guy answering any medical questions for him.

[mattclearing]

24. Seriously. n/t

[MadMaddie]

5. I am thinking Whittington's health is probably deteriorating...

I hope he pulls through.

If a young person were shot I would be more confident that his/her health would be okay. But at his advanced age...he probably has other medical conditions that are being impacted.

This is another instance of the * cabal living life to excess and if someone gets caught in their crosshairs they are going to spin and cover it up.

[SoCalDem]

33. Does the old guy have any family?? Seems like a few of them

might have come forward by now.. Maybe they are not "onboard" with the cover-up yet and are being kept from speaking out

[Stephanie]

75. he has daughters - one has been quoted n/t

[MissWaverly]

71. the thing that scares me is that this pellet is lodged in the heart

I thought they were lodged in the skin, not traveling through the body, there were 200
pellets, the body is not designed for guided tours.

[caligirl]

76. speculation is that Cheney shot him at a much closer range,

for shot to get to the heart muscle it had to be closer than Cheney says. The real story isn't out yet.

[MissWaverly]

87. someone just said pellet in heart sac or heart muscle

is 5 millimeter in size, the pupil in your eye is 5 millimeters in diameter, that's
bigger than what I thought.

[MissWaverly]

88. yes, they say the pellets don't move once they impact

[rateyes]

80. If the guy dies from this...

Cheney could be charged with manslaughter. If they knew for sure he was really going to be as OK as they "hoped" then Cheney would already be talking. If he faces charges here, anything he says to the public on TV can be used against him, and if he lies.....he's toast.

[BattyDem]

6. No apology ... blaming the victim ... Scotty won't answer any questions ..

There's more going on here than just an accidental shooting. :tinfoilhat:

[EFerrari]

10. He's had a heart attack. On CNN right now. :(

[BattyDem]

19. I know ... that's really sad. I hope he'll be alright.

But why is everyone connected with this so defensive? Surely, every one one of us can relate to an accident, so why wouldn't Cheney and the WH simply offer an apology and show a bit of regret over it? Instead, they blame the poor man for getting shot, Scotty was incredibly snippy today and now the hospital staff is pissed about the questions. What's going on? :shrug:

[EFerrari]

23. You know what's happening. They're psychopaths.

This poor guy is getting between them and their 2006 schedule. :sarcasm:

[BattyDem]

26. LOL! You know what's really sad about your comment?

It's probably 100% correct! They have no morals. :eyes:

[mom cat]

72. At the very least, Whittington's face is going to be a wreck!

[Norquist Nemesis]

9. What do you mean "unglued"?

Didn't see it.

[flyarm]

15. he got very nasty and loud..and very defensive answering reporters

questions...i thought he was very unprofessional..very ..un doctor like..bad bedside manner..i thought..that guy would not be my doc for 5 minutes..i would rip him a new asshole...fly

[Norquist Nemesis]

37. Thanks. Finally broke down and switched to CNN

Watching the Quail Hunting 101. :thumbsup:

[habitual]

30. he tried to pretend that there is no problem

having a bird shot enlodged in your heart. A reporter asked "well what about infection?" and he went off the hood: "Well there is always a chance of infection, but he doesn't have it now!"

[dogday]

12. It was a good question, infection is always a consideration

when someone is as old as Mr. Wittington is. In fact it is almost expected.... Hopefully the man is in good shape.

[KitchenWitch]

20. And is always a consideration with any open wound.

[shain from kane]

61. How about a staph infection, which are epidemic around here.

Not just the standard old bacterial infection that any wounded person can expect.
Admission to the hospital could be a death sentence. Nothing is guaranteed. And the doctors and hospitals are sensitve about being criticized about staph infections rampaging throughout the hospital on their watch.

[Ladyhawk]

84. I've heard it's practically impossible to eradicate staph from an environ-

ment, even a hospital environment where all the surfaces can be disinfected. Yet another reason I tried other things besides surgery for so long. I know our friend Andy died from an infection. I don't know the details because at the time we were all pretty damn emotional about it.

I hope this old guy pulls through. I laughed so hard about Cheney's stupidity and now things look much worse for the victim. It makes me feel a little guilty, but I thought it was "no big deal" as the WH claimed. I realized we weren't getting the whole story, but I was at least sure we were being told the truth about the guy's stable condition. Geez, I bet the whole thing was a lie from the beginning. Who knows how to separate fact from fiction in this case? I'm going to assume it really was an accident because Cheney would have to be dumber than Dubya to whack a guy with his own gun. However, the "accident" was probably a lot worse and Cheney even more negligent than we were led to believe. So stupid to try to cover it up...the truth must be pretty bad.

[KitchenWitch]

89. indeed

If you are not sick when you go to the hospital, you may be sick when you leave because of staph.

[cynatnite]

13. An ER chief talked to the press???

Why not one of the cardiologists treating him?

This ER guy is a blubbering idiot. :eyes:

[SoCalDem]

14. That doctor must know Cheney..A Cheney-esque statement to be sure

And Bush continues to play Schultz ..

[flyarm]

18. yes very defensive ..not doctor like at all..very unprofessional!

doc are usually calm and controled..this guy lost control...not professional at all!!

fly

[FearofFutility]

27. Not the docs I have to work with! n/t

[cynatnite]

34. seems like he got pissed because the care was being questioned...

Some doctors get irate if the care they are providing is questioned. With the mention of infection and if they hadn't of found the bird shot he went off. This guy shouldn't have been put in front of a camera at all.

[FearofFutility]

35. Agreed n/t

[CAcyclist]

82. Oh, I don't know. I totally sympathize with the doctor.

It's hard to hear the misconceptions from the public over and over without getting frustrated. People watch medical shows and they think that makes them knowledgeable about such things and it really doesn't.

Bullet wounds - shotgun pellets or otherwise - don't generally get infected because the force of the metal heats up tissue it pentrates along its trajectory so much that it essentially sterilizes as it goes.

I know well how hard it is to find metal bullet fragments that are much larger than these. Contrary to most medical shows, we in veterinary medicine don't go after bullet fragments imbedded deep in muscle and I'll bet they don't in human medicine either.

[converted_democrat]

21. It just gets stranger and stranger.... We are living in interesting times.

:tinfoilhat: I wonder what the deal is?

[livetohike]

22. Is it common for "superficial wounds" that contain bird shot

to dislodge and go to the heart?

Will some reporter please get to the bottom of this?

[cynatnite]

29. depends on how deep the bird shot penetrated...

I'm wondering how close Whittington was to Cheney. For some reason it occured to me that Cheney fired the gun by accident and wasn't aiming for a bird at all.

[RazzleDazzle]

67. In which case it wouldn't be "superficial wounds" at all, would it?

[FearofFutility]

31. I understood him to say they knew the bird shot was there

from the beginning, but it migrated. It answers the question we have all be pondering. He was in ICU initially because he had birdshot lodged in his heart and readmitted because it migrated causing a-fib and a heart attack.

[livetohike]

36. That makes sense but I thought the doctors at first said it

was superficial wounds. :shrug:

[FearofFutility]

38. They were lying? Superficial wounds don't get you admitted

to ICU.

[Roland99]

40. True...being admitted means a serious physical condition.

Superficial wound would be like setting a broken leg and sending the patient home.

[livetohike]

45. Someone on another thread said he was probably admitted to ICU

because of his age (78), but now I believe the injuries were more severe than reported.

[Scout1071]

81. He was life flighted to Corpus Christi! I'd say that is more than

a superficial wound.

[cynatnite]

42. unless he has other health issues that have to be monitored

That's very possible given his age.

[FearofFutility]

57. Health conditions that were exacerbated due to being shot?

That's possible. We now know that not all of the birdshot wounds were superficial.

[FearofFutility]

58. Oh! I got a heart!!

Thank you whoever you are!! :hug:

[progressivebydesign]

52. but YESTERDAY they said they were not removing all pellets.

If it was superficial, all of the pellets would have been removed. You cannot be shot from the equivalent of across a large living room, and not have them go into you pretty deeply. If it's enough to kill a bird, it will do more than leave a mark on you. The guy was wearing an orange hat.. and vest.. HOW did CHeney not see him???

[KurtNYC]

73. and why wasn't the spray pattern wider?

the police report shows the wounds as being tightly clustered around the neck/throat area:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0213061cheney1.html

At 30 yards, wouldn't the shot be more widely dispursed? Unless Whittington is in a somewhat crouched position with the right side of his face and neck toward Cheney. But even in that position, I think you would be hit in the right arm and some in the right leg?

[Catrina]

25. 'Texas lawyer, injured by VP Cheney in a hunting accident, takes turn for

the worst' ~ just heard that on the radio ~ at the end of the report, it said that the victim was responsible for the accident as he 'walked into the VP's line of fire'. I am not kidding!

I think they knew how bad he was from the beginning ~ a DUer mentioned that they would never have called the helicopter to transport him from one hospital to another, and into ICU, no matter WHO he was, were it not very serious. Seems that DUer was correct.

Does anyone know exactly what time the accident happened?

The press will be blamed if anything happens to him, for their 'interference while the doctors were trying to do their jobs'.

I hope he survives ~ but at his age, you have to wonder ~

I think they called the WH doctors to find out what they knew from the beginning. This is beginning to look like a very big cover-up ~ and blaming the victim will only make things worse, imo.

[goodboy]

28. Harry got way more than a Shotgun Facial. And I suspect he was way

closer than 30yards. and I surmise, that's part of the reason for the 20 hour delay in notifying the press.

Harry was fucked up. bad.

[Ganja Ninja]

43. If you've seen the official report at the smoking gun ...

there is a drawing showing the affected area. It looks more like the guy took the blast in the upper left side of his torso and neck with the majority of the wound being on the front rather than the side. It really doesn't show much of a wound to his face.

[goodboy]

48. I did see that, however, eyewitness descriptions described him as

looking as though he had chickenpox on his face and neck.

[notadmblnd]

79. so some of those pelletes had to have penetrated one of the main arteries

in the neck. It's the one on the left that send the blood back through to the heart, right? I guess I should go look at the story.. but I'm guessing thats how the pellet got to his heart.

[Rainscents]

46. I agree with you... There is HUGE cover up going on behind the curtain!

[Ovett]

47. Cheney wants this guy dead so he can't tell the real story. n/t

[truebrit71]

66. It's starting to look like that...

...I think he was a bunch closer than 30 yards away when Cheney mistook him for a quail...

[goodboy]

90. if it went through his chest cavity into his heart and liver...he may have

been 30 feet away...or less.maybe 3 feet

[ColonelTom]

41. Easy on the ER chief, guys...

It's a tough job without the White House and the press breathing down your neck. I can't imagine the pressure he's under right now. Cut him some slack!

[flyarm]

49. under these circumstances hospital should not put someone out there

that can't deal with questions and reporters ..that doc lost control...this is a white house incident..they should not put someone in front of the cameras umless they can be under control..the question was reasonable..when reporters are told that a pellet traveled to heart muscle..a good question is can it cause an infection..that was not unreasonable..and the fact that other pellets will remain in the mans body..that is a reasonable question..it was not a question attacking or saying they weren't giving good care..it was really a very intelligent question...

and as the saying goes..if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen...

most..amd i say most medical press conferences..the docs are very controled and professional..they don't go off half cocked...because reporters are asking questions...

if he didn't want to answer questions the hospital should not have sent hi out there..they knew there would be high intensity questioning..that is reasonable...

fly

[flyarm]

50. and the mans age is also a question!!..n/t

[malaise]

51. Dr. Laurence Sperling Cardiologist

from Emory is on CNN. He says this is medically concerning. A foreign body in the heart is not by any means benign. Soudns like some damage to the heart - not a traditional heart attack, but whenever there is something lodged in the heart, it is never a trivial condition and he needs to be monitored carefully.

Add.

[flyarm]

54. i just heard as well and he said if it is not "lodged"

there is a chance it could go further with blood stream...

of course he did not know if it was lodged or not..it was conjecture...but he was a Emory Cardiologist..and he said he would be very concerned and monitor closely..

and again i say..this is a 78 yr old man...

what young people can endure..older folks can't..his age has to be a concern..

this guy is not out of the woods...by any means...

i just hope he recoups well...my regards to him and his family...

fly

[rumpel]

56. and the foreign object is lead, isn't it?

[malaise]

63. So I'm hearing

CNN just read a Cheney statement feigning ignorance about the change in condition until quite late. These men are unbelievable.

[flyarm]

64. LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE..GEEZ I FEEL LIKE WE ARE DEALING WITH CHILDREN!!

bradblog has the best explaination..plausable deniability..in case he died...

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002417.htm

CHENEY SHOOTING: Plausible Deniability
Why Was Cheney's Role as The Shooter Withheld for Hours from the White House?


fly

[malaise]

65. Thanks for that

Dan Abrams is discussing now. He has some lawyers and a Major from Texas wild life.

Edit add.

[ColonelTom]

55. "Dammit, Jim, I'm a doctor, not a P.R. guy" n/t

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

59. Who was the guy in tan blazer? Doctor? Hospital spokesman?

I was watching subtitles at the gym.

[FreedomAngel82]

60. This is so strange!

[Nothing Without Hope]

62. ***COMPILATION of threads on the Cheney shooting incident - LINK:

I will continue to update - I'd love it if you would too:

In General Discussion:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x411916
thread title (2-14-06 GD): Thread COMPILATION on Cheney shooting/Fuddgate - including VIDEOS:

In the Research Forum:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=358x3133
thread title (2-14-06 RESEARCH FORUM): Compilation of threads on 2/06 Cheney shooting incident, including videos

[madokie]

77. an older gentleman was shot by the vp, if it was an accident

you wouldn't hear so many version of the lie.

[Ladyhawk]

85. Yes you would if the accident was caused by extreme negligence.

I am guessing they were simply walking and Cheney didn't have the safety on, possibly tripped and shot Whittington at point-blank. There may or may not have been drugs or alcohol involved. Regardless, we're not getting the true story. I still believe it was an accident, but that Cheney was criminally negligent. That's why they tried to cover it up and spin it when it got out. Unreal they are blaming the guy who got shot.